Transcript of interview with Millicent Rosen by Barbara Tabach, June 23, 2015

An Interview with Millicent Rosen An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers & Editors: Barbara Tab ach, Claytee D. White n The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first- person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Cl ay tee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas m Preface Until her passing in 2017, Millicent (Siegel) Rosen was the living link to Benjamin “Bugsy” Siegel, one of Las Vegas’ most notorious links to the Jewish mob. A steadfastly independent woman herself, Millicent recalls Benjamin as a loving father to her and her younger sister. She is proud of his status as a Las Vegas visionary, though she affixes a footnote that the city of today might not be to his liking. She includes a few anecdotes about common names of the early days, including Meyer Lansky who walked her down the aisle when she married Jack Rosen. They had three children: Benjamin, Cindy, and Wendy. Millicent moved to Las Vegas to be with her daughter and her family in about 2000 and cherished her role as a grandmother. Always an artist at heart, Millicent once painted canvases for needlepoint and in 2015 promoted her clothing line. IV Table of Contents Interview with Millicent Rosen June 23,2015 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface..........................................................................................iv Discusses Jewish ancestry of her parents, Esta Krakower Siegel and Benjamin Siegel. Describes her youthful rebelliousness, bom in 1931, a lifelong smoker, her sister and growing up in California and New York. She attended Yale for one year, no dormitories for girls...........1 - 5 Story of meeting her husband Jack Rosen, his father Morris Roosen was a friend with Benjamin; mentions Meyer Lansky’s son Paul and their friendship; describes her mother Esta, never remarried; her sister Barbara; education, Beverly Hills........................................6-9 Talks about trips to visit father in Las Vegas; memoires of staying at Frontier hotel, riding horses, and lack of air-conditioning. Raised her three children in New York, being in the needlepoint art business. Recalls going out for dinner with her father, internment of Japanese, and celebrity neighbors like Bing Crosby, Fanny Bryce, and Elizabeth Taylor in Beverly Hills. Recalls spending summers in California at Aunt Bess’ and Las Vegas..........................10-15 Thoughts on mob exhibits and the Mob Museum; coming back to live in Las Vegas with her daughter and family; selling land near Flamingo hotel and her father’s vision of the Strip. Story of meeting Gus Greenbaum, date in Arizona. Thoughts about personality similarities with her father; respect for her father................................................................16-20 How she learned of her father’s death while traveling to be with him; knowing Meyer Lansky and he walking her down the aisle for her wedding to Jack Rosen. Being perceived as a “celebrity” because of who her father was...................................................21-25 v THE SOUTHERN NEVADA JEWISH COMMUNITY DIGITAL HERITAGE PROJECT at UNLV University Libraries Use Agreement Name of Narrator: fk / L L / (Lfi MY" Name of Interviewer: f? Jf- 'TA'K Q _______________ We, the above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded interview(s) initiated on £>(? '33 '£>r) i<T~alone with typed transcripts as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude the right of the interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. I understand that my interview will be made available to researchers and may be quoted from, published, distributed, placed on the Internet or broadcast in any medium that the Oral History Research Center and UNLV Libraries deem appropriate including future forms of electronic and digital media. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Signature of Narrator Date Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, NV 89154-7010 702.895.2222 VI Today is June 23rd, 2015. This is Barbara Tabach. I'm sitting in the kitchen of Millicent Rosen. This project that I'm working on, Millicent, is about people of Jewish ancestry and how they were pioneers in Las Vegas history and you're a link to one of the (pioneers)— There were quite a few Jewish people here. Yes, there are. I mean more than you would have expected. I think that's a surprising detail that people don’t know about. And some of them were very big. Yes, yes. And among those, most fascinating, is your father, Benjamin Siegel. So we're going to talk about you, though, and your family. And however much you want to share is totally up to you. You mind if I smoke? No. I do a lot of antics. I don't drink. I have coffee already going. And I figure at this age if nothing's happened to me from smoking, the heck with it. Well, you said you were born in 1931. So that makes you...You just celebrated— Eighty-four. Eighty-four. Yes. Well, that's terrific. And how long have you been smoking? Since I was maybe twelve or thirteen. Really? Because my mother smoked and we had a very big house and there were empty rooms that I 1 could go and smoke, or outside. We had a lot of property. I used to take the butts, peel the paper, and make a cigarette out of them and go outside—back where we had chicken coops and things like that and smoke. And this was in New York? No, in California. The house is still there. Where in California was the house? Outside of Beverly Hills, California Drive. Like I said, we had a lot of property there; we had like three acres. The house is on an acre and then there were two acres behind and there was like a ravine and then there was a stream that ran through it. On the other side of the stream was somebody else's property. So it was like three acres, but spread this way, with a stream. It must have been fun to grow up on that much land. Well, I was bad. My sister had foot troubles; she was bom with it. She'd been operated on, her feet, maybe twice before she grew up, grew up to go away to college. So she never came with me. But across the street there was some crazy lady and a man that had a daughter and that was the only one I could pal around with. There wasn't any other kids up there. So that's the only one. I don't know what happened to her. She used to drive me nuts... Now, do you remember your grandparents? My father's people lived in New York. So I saw them. They'd come out here, but not often. And there were sisters back there, two sisters, my grandmother and grandfather. And I had an aunt that came out here, married somebody here then had kids here. So that was the only family out here. Then his uncle was in the Army and when he got out of the Army, he was a doctor. So he went to Cedars-Sinai and he became a really big man there. Yes, just the two of them, Mersch and my aunt Bess. 2 Did you know your grandparents very well...? The funny part is my grandmother didn't speak English, or very little of it. So she kept calling me Shayna Maidel [pretty girl]. Then she'd go off into a conversation and I didn't understand a word that she would say. But my father and my mother, if they didn't want the kids to hear, would speak Yiddish. So your mother was Jewish, as well? Yes. Esta Krakower. ... I'm not sure where my mother's father came from. He eventually came and lived with us. But I know it was around Poland or Russia, in that area. I don't know where they came from. So Yiddish was part of your growing up; did you ever learn it? Not a word. Just what my grandmother used to call me, Shayna Maidel; that's all I knew. As a matter of fact, if you want, I have a picture of them. Oh, that would be wonderful. My grandfather was a little man, because I'm tall for a girl, but for a man I'm not tall. And he was a little...about there on me. My grandmother was tiny. I have a whole trunk of stuff, my father's stuff, and it's in the middle of that [gesturing]. It's maybe about this size. So if you want to see it, I can find it. We can do that later. I love old photographs, especially the black and white or the sepia-tones from our ancestors. I think that one might be colored. So were there any memories of being Jewish other than the Yiddish speaking? Well, in school in Beverly Hills I was a minority and kids were always...never made an issue out of it, but asked a lot of questions like I was from the moon. Do I go to church or temple or 3 whatever? But I never had any kind of bad remarks till later on in life. I went to Yale for a year and then I got married. I had more problems in New Haven than I had in California. That's interesting, isn't it? You said there were a lot of Jewish men who came to Las Vegas. I think that Las Vegas seems to be an example of, at least in that early era, totally void of anti-Semitism. I don't think there was any. I'm sure there wasn't because my father would've said something. I mean from people. Other than people I would have known would tell me how he would support the church and ... local organizations. He didn't care what denomination they were or anything else like that. But like I say, I grew up being Jewish in Beverly Hills, which was comfortable because there were a lot of Jewish people. Like I say, when I went to New Haven, there weren't many Jews in school. Well, of course, Yale is large; I don't know how many. But in my area there, I think because I was an art major that I probably didn't know too many of the other parts of the school. So I really don't know. But I was the only one in my area. And they were interested, but standoffish. When I went there they had no place for a girl. They had no room in the school for me. So I had to sleep out. Really? I could come in, but they had in room for a girl, any girl in any of the— At Yale? At Yale. I wonder how that happened. Well, I don't know. They just didn't have dorms for us. Like I say, I don't know too much about the others, but I know here I am; where do I go? 4 So where did you stay? They found a list of Jewish families that would put me up while I went to school. So my mother came up and went to see the first Jewish family. And before I got there the husband got sick. So we had to go back and see another Jewish family. He got sick with something that was contagious. So that took care of him. I stayed there for that whole year. They were just the nicest people. And there was another girl that came up and she was from Montpelier in Vermont and a, quote, Christian. She was my real close friend because she stayed in a neighbor's house near me, because I don't think she wanted to come to a Jewish house. I think her parents wanted her to go to a different house and she lived near me. But there were not many Jews up there. You said you just went there one year? One year because I was going with my husband when I went up there and he was at Syracuse and I found an Italian boyfriend. So I broke up with my Jewish boyfriend. It was more convenient. At the end of the year we got engaged. You and Jack Rosen? Yes, we got engaged. So when he said he wanted to get married, I had to move because I had finished the term. I finished the year. Then I came back to New York and I got married the next year. So he wasn't going to let you go to this Italian boyfriend. Right. I even brought him home. He came home. He had some relatives in California and he came home to meet my mother because my father wasn't there. It just was one of those things. I'm sure his parents didn't want it any more than my mother wanted it and she was smart enough to keep quiet because if she said anything I'd run out and do the other thing. 5 You were a little defiant, huh? Yes. Okay. So what’s the story about how you met Jack Rosen then? My father and his father [Morris Rosen] were friends. We moved to New York. I rode—this is an interesting story: My father used to get presents and one of the presents he got from somebody in Texas was a five-gaited horse. And what do you do with a five-gaited horse? One girl can't ride and here I am. Somebody gave him a violin. What kind of violin I don't know, but it must have been expensive. I had to take violin lessons. All those things. Then somebody gave him Fantail pigeons. So they went out with the other pigeons we had in the backyard. But I wound up with a horse. So now I'm in New York and Jack's father and my father knew that Jack was in military school and rode and had a horse at his stable. And we went at 88 Central Park and the next block over was the stable. So I rode and he kept his horse here. Whenever he came in, I'd meet him at the stables and we rode. From there on the family kind of pushed it, both sides. And then Paul Lansky lived on 87th Street, the whole block, and he palled around with us. So it was the three of us. Now, Paul Lansky was Meyer's son. Meyer's son, yes, the young son because the older son was crippled. So you learned to ride a horse and got a boyfriend along the way, too. Yes. After that, I mean, the parents were pushing it. He went to his father and said he wants to get married. He was so excited. Don't you think maybe you should wait? Didn't care. Now, who were his parents? What was his parents' names? Morris and Ethel Rosen. He was a partner with my father. 6 And partner in just all kinds of businesses? Yes. So how did your parents meet; do you know the story of how they met? No. I just know that they all came from the Lower East Side and they all lived in the same neighborhood. My mother wasn't a lot younger than him. So it was all just meeting and because Meyer lived there and so did a lot of other people. And she got married. Well, she had me when she was twenty or twenty-one. So she got married early, too. Her mother was dead. I only remember her father when he came from New York to live with us and he died in our house. And my mother had red hair and he had red hair. And my kids, the two of them had red hair. My sister's was black as your shirt. What was your mom like? Unhappy. Not a super great mother. She wasn't happy because she was so afraid of losing my father.. .her unhappiness was her whole...I mean it made her life kind of miserable. She had some friends and she had all the things she wanted. But then my father had a few affairs here and there and she decided later on—I think I was in high school. Yes, because I had a boyfriend that I saw not too long ago, a couple of years ago, and we were both in high school. She went to Reno and divorced him and see if he'd come get her and he never did. He always put her on the same level as his mother. She was the mother of his children and she was this and she was that and wonderful, but we can't live together. Now, unfortunately, the house was huge and they had a huge bedroom area with two bathrooms and sitting rooms and a sleeping porch and stuff and I could hear the fights sometimes. I don't know what they were fighting about, but I'm sure my mother started it. But she went to the grave counting anniversaries, which is awfully sad. 7 She never remarried, then? No. She had a boyfriend. She had a young one when he first—young, her age—when we moved back to New York and he didn't like children and especially me. I was nasty. Were you? Yep, just bad. And by today [standards], I was an angel. I mean I walked down the street smoking a cigarette at fifteen and got caught and I put Clorox on my hair and sat in Central Park to make my hair blond. I mean by today's standard that's so tame. And my poor sister sat inside. And there was a building next to us and a guy lived in the thing. So she would talk to the guy over there. That was the most she got into. But, no, I was trouble and he didn't want the trouble. And I think she really cared for him. And then she met and older man and they were together for a long time. But not like people get together here; he never moved in. They never traveled together. He was there for dinner or she saw him maybe three times a week or so, but that was it. So the passion of her life was still your father. Yes, till the day she died. Wow. How old was she when she passed away? She died in Detroit and I was living in California. So fifteen years ago, twenty at most. That’s a long time to carry that torch. Until the day she died. And my father's buried in California in a crypt. She came from Detroit, because she was living in Detroit because my sister lived there, and she bought a crypt as close to his as she could. But unfortunately, it wasn't where they were that close, but it's in the same block. Because they stop at a certain point and then start another one. So it was in the same block that he's in and it's not too far away from him. That's where she wanted to be buried and 8 she made sure. So she bought the plot before. We couldn't put her anyplace else. I mean we wouldn't at that point. This is where she picked out the plaque on there and a thing for a flower. So it was all picked out. This is it and you can't move me. She left instructions. She left instructions. So tell me a bit about your sister. You said that she wasn't as mischievous as you. Well, as I said, she had feet trouble. I think the arches or something in her foot—both feet didn't grow. So she was operated on at an early age and had continual operations to stretch whatever it was. I mean I was too young to really know. So she walked like a stiff soldier. She was never athletic because she couldn't be and she was very smart in school, which she hated coming up behind me because.. Are you like your sister? My mother was closer to her than me because she always would say, "Wait till your father comes home," to me. "Wait till your father comes home." There's a letter that my father wrote to her coming back from New York to Vegas about her complaints about me and his answer. It's someplace in the box that's all... So he took time to write a letter to her to reassure her that you were okay? That I would outgrow it and she should be proud of me. It's funny. He had more insight to people than she did. Like I said, she was a good mother to my sister, Barbara, and constantly at odds with me. And I'm sure I didn't make her life easy. So where did you get most of your schooling, then, before college? We moved to New York. In California, I went from—we lived in Scarsdale and I think I was too young to go to school, whatever school. I had a governess, so I didn't have to go to school. So when we moved to California, the governess came and then I went to school, whatever. She sent 9 me to whatever age group that she put me in. I'm sure it was like play school or something like that or maybe... whatever. Then that's when I went to school in California. I went to one of the Beverly Hills' schools because we didn't live in Beverly Hills, but my aunt did. So we had a summer house. You could come to swim at my summer house. It was down the road a piece. But that's my house. And for school it was on that street and it was the last street in Beverly Hills. Thank God, my aunt lived on that side of the street because the other side was Los Angeles. So when your father died in 1947, after that—I mean people seemed to probably know that you were part of this legacy of Vegas, building it and all of that, or how did he relate to his story? Well, we had come to Vegas with my father. I don't know how many times, but many times. We stayed at the Frontier. One time we came with the dog. We had a shepherd and the Frontier had a front yard with a pool and the shepherd would sit out there during the day. I don't really know how old I was when I first came to Vegas. I must have been old enough because somebody in the casino, one of the casino guys used to ride and I used to ride with him at night. At like seven o'clock we'd go up into the mountains. But like I say, unfortunately, my sister couldn't do any of this. Now, I also asked did they have air-conditioning here and I found out they didn't. And how the hell did...? The hotel that was upstairs—it was only two stories high, so it was upstairs. So it must have been hot as hell. Nobody complained. I wondered, did the weather change? I just don't remember it being hot. I mean it was hot, but not uncomfortably hot. And I know when you're younger it isn't as bad as when you're older. But I don't remember... Well, I wouldn't remember if we had windows in the bedroom. I 10 don't remember seeing windows downstairs in the casino. I know fans were there. That was more of a resort at that time, too, wasn't it, the Frontier? Were the horses at the Frontier or where did you get the horses that you rode? A stable someplace. I don't know because I would go with him because I wasn't driving yet. So I wasn't...When do you get your license, sixteen? I must have been fourteen when I first came out. At that point he had the hotel, bought the hotel downtown. I never saw the hotel downtown. I still have never seen the hotel downtown. Really? I mean I see the outside, but I've never gone in it. I just remember we were downtown and he pointed it out, "That's my hotel." So I don't know where he stayed while he was building the [Flamingo] hotel. I would assume because I've met the girls that own the hotel...They have no record of him staying there for any long period of time. They have no record in their books of his staying there. So I would assume he stayed at the Frontier because it was like across the street. So that's all I know. But he would come back into Beverly Hills maybe every two weeks because when they built it, he got one of the first Chryslers that were sold and he would drive back and forth instead of taking the train. So I don't know when he got that because when I went up to Yale, I had the car. Oh, the same Chrysler? Uh-huh. Yep. That's pretty cool. I don't know what happened to it afterwards. We must have sold it because I never saw the car again. 11 So then what year—you got married in—you said you were about nineteen? Yes. And when you got married where did you live? In New York. And that's where you raised your children is in New York? Uh-huh. Okay. And you had three kids. New York and Westchester, New York City and Westchester. What kind of business was Jack in at that time, then? First he was in no business. He and his father couldn't find a business he liked. So they finally found...He went to the garment center. So he became involved in...What age group? I would say teens. I don't know if it was preteens, but teens and up to—preteens and teens, clothes. That's what he ended up doing. That was what he decided he wanted to do. That was a good business. Yes. He liked it.. .1 had kids, so I didn't work. I started...I only have one piece here. I did needlepoint and I also sold the canvases. You'd order a canvas from me. And I went to work in a store called Wool Works on Madison Avenue. That's how I started. I taught a class in it and that went on for a long time. So the canvas was for painting or for needlepoint? For needlepoint. I painted the canvases for them. Let's say you want this to sew. I'd draw it. You'd pick out the colors or I'd pick out the colors for all the thread. And off you'd go. And if you had a problem, you would come back to me. That's amazing. 12 Yes. I did very well. I think about it now.. It was really very good. If one person liked what I did, they would tell somebody else because needlepoint at that point was very big. So, yes. Is it popular now? Well, I see at one store here that's that. Now, they do everything at that store. They do knitting. They do crocheting. They do all different kinds of stitches on fabrics and stuff like that. It's not as big as it used to be, but doing stitches on fabrics is big here. I was going to say I think I've seen that more often again. Well, knitting has always been around. My aunt Bessie used to knit everything—sweaters, shawls, blankets—and my mother did, too. My mother made a few dresses. They had a pattern; it's not that they just sat down and knitted. They went to the store and they got fitted and they got the whole thing. She made a couple of knit dresses because what else was she going to do? We had help in the house. And it used to be we cringed if we had to come home on Thursday or every other Sunday when the help was off. Every other Sunday, if my father was home, we went out to dinner. She was the worst cook in the whole world. My grandmother was the first; she was the second worst cook. And at that point in time we lived in California and we didn't have a lot of Mexicans. They were Japanese. Where she got all the spices and chilies that the Mexicans had and put it in our food...? We had spaghetti we couldn't even eat it was so hot. I mean find some Chinese food at least. No, there were no...I mean not to the extent there is now. The Japanese were all the people. And then the Mexicans finally got there and come to work after they all got interned. And I know she used to go to the internment where the help that we had were sent to. Where the Japanese were interned. Yes. She used to bring them some butter and things like that that were hard to get and I don't 13 think she ever—well, we weren't there after the war. So I don't think she ever saw them again. But at least she...butter and sugar and stuff like that. I know sugar was rationed because we had a barrel that was this high, a great big barrel, and it was full of sugar. I remember she took sugar to them and butter because I guess they wouldn't have either one. That’s nice. Yes. And one of the other presents that my father got, somebody sent him like ten, twelve salamis. What do you do with twelve salamis? So when they built the house, they had left a shack I guess that the architect used and then they turned it into a playhouse for my sister and I. So you'd walk into that playhouse and there were twelve salamis hanging up. Yes, I had a good time growing up there. What made it a good time? What are the fond memories that you have? Just being able to be free, to run around wherever I wanted to go, in the area I lived in. Now, Fanny Bryce lived in front of us and she used to throw—or whoever worked for her used to throw—the flowers out. I'd wander the garbage and bring home flowers. And then Bing Crosby had the biggest compound a block away, but it was blocks away; the only way you could get in there to see what was going on was to go down into the ravine where the little stream was and climb up a big hill. See, and my sister could never do this and this crazy nut that lived across the street would go with me. But it was just fun there. Then, of course, I had the horse and we rode together; when Elizabeth [Taylor] was in National Velvet, we rode at the same stables. Well, you had a really huge cast of characters from that era. Talk more about celebrities. It was just a fun place to grow up at. Like I say, I don't know how my sister felt because she wasn't able to do much of anything. I remember from school we all used to go . There were two 14 movies in Beverly Hills. We'd decide, whoever we were friendly with at that point, which theater we were going to go to because like the whole class split up; they didn't all like the same movie. And I don't remember her there. So I don't think she had much of a social life. I don't know that she ever came to school with me. Now, I don't remember—and this is a terrible thing to say—I don't remember... Well, I don't know if we had a school bus because I went to a private school. So I don't think we had a school bus. So the chauffer would have had to have driven us. But I don't remember her going to school with me. As a matter of fact, the next time I talk to her I'm going to ask her. I know she had to go to school. And then for some reason I didn't stay in the private school. I went to first grade—Beverly Hills has four grade schools and one high school. When I got to the grade school level that's where I went and I don't know where she went. So she's still alive. Yes, in Detroit. And she's how much younger than you? Two and a half years. It will be interesting to see what she remembers from that period of time. ... We were to spend summers here when I moved to New York; that was their divorce agreement. You would spend summers in Vegas or in California? Well, either/or. I don't know if he wanted to be with us for two, three months here while he was building a hotel, but we did stay here a lot, but we stayed at my aunt Bess' in Beverly Hills. I don't know. I know I came out here. I'm sure she did, too, because I don't think they would have left her here. But she just drifted through the family quietly. Like I say, my mother was very 15 caring of her physically and mentally. And my father wasn't home that much, but he was equally good to her. But I never had time for her. I was off and gone. ... Did you distance yourself? He was always my father. I never made a point of anything. And when I moved out here, some nut opened up the first exhibition here and he found me, but I'm not hard to find. Oh, the first mob-related exhibition, before the Mob Museum. Right. And he found me and we had a long discussion and he told me and laid out their plans and all that kind of stuff. And I said, "Fine." I told my sister and she said, "Do what you want." She wasn't going to tell me don't do it, but I don't want any part of it. From the concept—did you ever go there? Not to that exhibit, no. I’ve been to the museum, but that’s before that. Different format. I mean it was like a real story and you walked through it and it was done very nice... I'm not sure how many years it lasted, maybe five. I don't know. It was at the Tropicana. That's what I recall, yes. And I really don't know what happened, but it closed, because they were making money. I think the lease was five years and the Tropicana didn't want to keep it or whatever. I'm not sure. I can find out, though, because I'm very friendly with one of the guys that worked there who's my adviser on a lot of things that have to do with the Mob Museum or anyplace else. I don't know. That's interesting. I've got to find out where my sister went to school and why did the Mob Museum go out? ... What do you think about the Mob Museum? I'm not impressed and I told them when I was there. I said, "First of all, it's like