Transcript of interview with Lyle and Mary Ann "Timbuck" Rivera by Claytee White, May 1, 2009

An Interview with Lyle and Mary Ann (Timbuck) Rivera An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2007 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach and Gloria Homol Transcribers: Kristin Hicks and Laurie Boetcher Interviewers and Project Assistants: Barbara Tabach and Claytee D. White ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer and the Library Advisory Committee. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Additional transcripts may be found under that series title. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iii Table of Contents Preface v Interview 1-39 Index 40 Appendix 41-42 1995 News Release about Lyle Rivera and UNLV Law School iv Preface The oral history interview of Lyle and Mary Ann "Timbuck" Rivera begins with the 1915 birth of Frances McNamee, Timbuck's mother, who had the distinction of being the eleventh baby born in early Las Vegas. Frances' father and grandfather who were attorneys for the railroad arrived in 1905 and became part of the historical roots of the community. Timbuck's memories also include landmarks and activities that were integral to the growing town, such as her mother's involvement in organizing the Junior League. Lyle Rivera, a relative newcomer, arrived in the 1940s and experienced what he describes as a life of "bouncing around" and being the only child of a single mother, a cocktail waitress at the Golden Nugget. Lyle would grow to distinguish himself within the community as a lawyer and community activist. He modestly mentions his achievements which included involvement with the UNLV Foundation, professional careers in both the Attorney General's and District Attorney's offices, a role in the beginning of the Boyd Law School, and being instrumental in hiring Jerry Tarkanian to become the UNLV basketball coach in the 1960s. The couple share stories of growing up Las Vegan, their community pride and discomfort with more recent imagery. They recall historic issues of racial prejudice and women's rights in the landscape of Las Vegas history. They also talk about modem Las Vegas and the changes that have occurred. ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Name of Narrator: Use Agreement y&zqMo Name of Interviewer: ( 'lAfari. ft£ We, the above named, give to intervievv(s) initiated on lj listory Research Center of UNLV, the recorded as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational pu/po/cs as shall be determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. Tliis gift docs not preclude the right ol die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will he no compensation for any interviews. 0^ Signature oyliitervicwer Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 wxvrvi^ iIJLO i v_yiv 1 xvu.ou.-rt.rvc^n. I I^JX i\ 1 UINI^ v Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Use Agreement Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: i 7^ )? /|, fl/yr We, die above named, give id d interview(s) initiated on !511 istory Research Center of UNLV, the recorded as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational piirp/ises as shall be determined, and transfer to die University of Nevada I>as Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude the right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 This is Claytee White and I'm with Timbuck and Lyle Rivera. This is May 1st. And we're in their home in Las Vegas. I should start with Timbuck. Could you spell your name, please? Timbuck, T-I-M-B-U-C-K. It is a nickname. The real name is Maryann. And the reason I use Timbuck is because I was born here in Las Vegas and when you're born in a place and never leave, you can't get rid of a nickname. I tried. Lyle: Especially if it's Timbuck. Timbuck: Especially when it's Timbuck. Well, how did that name come about? What does it mean? I'm a twin. And she was born first. I was born second. Baby one, baby two. Timbuktu. Oh, wow. I know. Squirrelly. No. But Timbuck, I love that. Well, Claytee. There you go. All right. Since you're already starting, would you tell me a little about growing up in Las Vegas? And tell me about your parents as well. Well, I am really an oddity because not only was I bom in Las Vegas, but my mother was bom in Las Vegas in 1915. And in the old days she had the distinction—and I did see it on a historical calendar. I should have saved it. But whoever thought things like this would be important?—that she was like the eleventh baby bom in Las Vegas. It said on the historical calendar on the date that Frances McNamee was bom today, the eleventh baby. Her father and grandfather were the attorneys for the railroad. They came in 1905 and stayed. So it's a real proud history, you know, living here. My mother was actually bom on Fremont Street where Ronzone's was, which means nothing to someone who wasn't here, but in those days it was a big deal. And then they moved a few blocks away to Third and like two blocks off Fremont Street on Fourth Street. We would walk from Grandma's and Granddaddy's. My grandfather's law office was right with the El Portal building where the El Portal Theatre was. And we could go upstairs and go in the projection room and watch the movies. It was a great place to grow up. Helldorado was a huge deal. And we used to get to go on the roof of the building. They had like a deck, a 1 big, huge deck that was the whole size of the building. And Helldorado, everyone we knew got to go upstairs and watch the parade from up there, which was just a real treat. But it was a great place to grow up. You knew everybody and everybody knew you. It was very safe. My mother was one of the five original founders of the Las Vegas Junior League; she founded (it) the year that my twin and I were born. We were born in 1945 in November and Junior League started in 1946. The joke was that those women would have done anything to get out of the house thinking that they were doing something constructive, especially my mother who had twins. But you grew up with a real sense of community and giving back. And in those days with the hotels as they grew, and then being involved myself very early in community work, it was so much easier to get things from the people who owned the hotels. I mean they were a part of everything. They never said no. It was just a real fun gig. Were you a part of the Junior League as well? Yes, I was a member of the Junior League. And I'm still a member of the Junior League, certainly as a sustainer. And my mother was also the founder of the Home of the Good Shepherd, which is one of those things that helped the young girls who got into trouble because I think a friend's kid got into trouble and they figured out a way to help out with the nuns. My mother's sister was a nun. She might have been the first Catholic vocation out of Las Vegas. Certainly as a nun she was. And she stayed in the convent for her whole life. Sisters of the Holy Family, which is the one you hear of old Las Vegas, those were the first nuns that were here. She had a lot of connections with the Catholic Church. And Catholic Church was always a big part of our family. There were like five old Catholic families and the McNamees were one of them. My mother was baptized, married and buried at Saint Joan of Arc's Catholic Church. You know, people don't even know where that is anymore, but it's right downtown. It was a great place to grow up. I was blocks away from the John S. Park area. I did go to John S. Park for my kindergarten year, which was a real treat. I had Ms. Hancock. Now there's a Hancock Elementary after her. And then Mrs. Dickerson had the class next door that the other kids got to go to. And that's Dickerson's wife, not Harvey Dickerson, but George Dickerson's wife, Dorie Dickerson. And she was pregnant when she was teaching. You know, the things that 2 you remember. They allowed that? Yes, they did. In Las Vegas I think they were probably desperate for teachers. But they did allow it. You know, there was just nothing that wasn't good about it. Good. As soon as I start Lyle, in a few minutes I want you to talk about the Junior League. Lyle: Let me just add one other thing. It was your grandfather that — he represented the railroad. But they also laid out a city. Timbuck: The law firm. Lyle: In other words, they did all the legal work and plotted out all the lots downtown where the railroad is and where downtown was. So they had a big sale and that's how the first lots were sold. Right, that auction. What was the man's name who ran the town for the railroad and the water company? I don't know who that is. But my grandfather was Leo A. McNamee and his father was Frank McNamee. And those were the two that were involved in the early days with the railroad. But that's what brought them here and that's why they stayed here. In any of the early history, certainly their names were very prominent. There's no streets, there's no schools, there's no nothing named after them. But the joke is always on us with the family. They had seven children, the McNamees, very, very Catholic. And instead of buying land and doing the things that would make him rich and famous, he sent all seven children to Catholic boarding schools out of town because there were no Catholic schools here in Las Vegas. So they all went away to Catholic high schools. They did their elementary at Las Vegas elementary school, but high school was away. Did your family ever talk about McWilliams? Uh-huh, sure. Sure, I know that name, absolutely. Okay, good. There are McWilliams Streets. Uh-huh. There are a lot of those. Exactly. Yes. That's true. Because he laid out the streets on the other side of the track. Right. Well, he didn't lay out the streets. When they were going to sell off the lots, the town sites, 3 he was the attorney that — But he did all the legal work. All the legal work for the railroad because it was a railroad deal. Wonderful. So, Lyle, tell me about your childhood and where you grew up. I grew up all over Las Vegas. I came here like in about 1943 or '44. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I was born in Salt Lake. And I bounced (around). My mother worked, single mother. I bounced from North Las Vegas to various schools in Las Vegas. I was only in John S. Park for about a year and a half, two years. And then when John C. Fremont opened up, I went over there. Basically it was very uneventful. An only child? Yes and no. Yes. My mother remarried and I have three half-brothers. But during that period of time I was all by myself What did your mother do for a living? When she first came here, she was a cocktail waitress at the Golden Nugget. She would have good stories. Yes. And that's where she married my dad and found my dad. Then when they got married, she quit. That's when I wound up at John C. Fremont. What did she tell you about being a cocktail waitress as far back as that? Nothing other than the fact that it was an enjoyable job because everybody was very friendly and you knew everybody. And it was a real small town. It wasn't like a grind or working for a big corporation. Did she ever tell you about the kinds of tips she earned? Not really, although, you know, you just know that they were pretty good. Everybody in those days did well with tips. Part of it was because there were a lot of silver dollars and no one wanted to carry the silver dollars back. You know, people in California didn't want them. They'd give them to bellmen. And a silver dollar was a silver dollar. Today they still have silver dollars, but that's what you get. Only when 40 or 50 years ago and in most cases no one ever paid taxes on that just like most tip-earners still don't except in Las Vegas. 4 Right. Yes. So tell me who were some of your friends as you were growing up? A guy named Robert Blacker. I didn't have many friends when I was bouncing around a lot because I was never in one school too long. And then Jim Romero, who lived right over there. When you were in that John S. Park area, what kinds of things did you do for fun? You know, we did the basic stuff, played baseball. They had a couple of parks right over there. And that would kind of be the gathering place. So after school you'd just go over there and there was always a game of something going on. And your buddies would all be over there. It was kind of the gathering place. In those days parents didn't drive anywhere. It was fairly close by. And you 'd walk over there or ride your bike and ride back. Are you talking about Circle Park, now they call it Circle Park on the corner of Maryland Parkway? Circle Park. Right. The big one. Right. There were two parks, Circle Park and then there's the football-shaped big park. And a movie theater was over there. The Huntridge, yeah. That was a big deal. But you'd walk, again, if you were going to the movie theater. And there were a lot of Saturday matinees. So people would go to the Saturday shows. They'd walk there and then walk home. And you'd have some parties and things like that. But my parents personally were just never, ever involved in it. If there was something going on, I'd walk over there. And it seemed like most of the other kids were in the same boat. You mentioned the Helldorado Parade. I know that you watched the parade, but did either of you ever participate? I don't think I ever did. I did not. For sure I did not. But my twin sister and I did participate in the parades they had in Henderson. I can't think of what the name of them was. Figures. Basic. Well, my dad was -- the only real job he had because he was more of an entrepreneur, businessman — but he came with the CCC camps after the war and met my mother, who was the 5 native, and then married her and stayed. And he was hired by Basic Magnesium Incorporated in Henderson. So he was the manager of the whole plant in Henderson. So he was a big name in Henderson and didn't run for office or anything. He was very political, but he never ran for office. But when things were going on in Henderson, we had to make an appearance. And they had the BMI float (that) my twin and I had to ride on it. We were like in eighth grade. And it was just humiliating. Why? I don't know. Because Henderson had a very — no one wanted to live in Henderson. Henderson was not — It was a working-class community, blue collar at that time. It was very working—yeah, very blue collar. And there was nothing. Then they developed the golf course, the Black Mountain Golf Course out there. As young kids we got to take golf lessons out there. So dad, on Saturday he'd drop us off at the golf course and he'd go, I think he had a girlfriend if the truth be known. He went over to see Mary Jo. This is a little more fun history. She's still alive. And it's funny. I mean we have a mutual friend. But he would go to work and we would take lessons at the Black Mountain Golf Course. So we were always involved. I mean we had to go out to Henderson a lot. Then homes were built there that were very nice and they were comparable to the homes in Las Vegas. But before that there was nothing and it was very working class. And he's looking at me like... I'm trying to remember where those homes were. On the golf course. That's where Delores Zenoff lived. Does that sound familiar at all? No. Yeah, Delores Zenoff. But I guess I've never seen them. You never went out there. I mean they were nice. You know, by Las Vegas standards they were very nice. But the difference in the parade is — Oh, A and Z. Because the hotels got behind the parade in Las Vegas. So the hotels really did it up right. I mean they were pretty fabulous for our time. 6 Oh, fabulous. And then, of course, you go to Henderson where they didn't have a sponsorship. So it was like a high school parade. It was. So that was really the difference. So it didn't quite have the appeal. And the Helldorado Parade, it was more than one parade at one point, wasn't it? Uh-huh. You'd have several days of parades. Uh-huh. Well, the family that we lived next door to for the first 12 years of our lives was Dr. Hirsch, Dr. John B. Hirsch, died a few years ago. But his daughter Diane is still one of my dearest friends. And she sent me in the mail just the other day CDs of us growing up.. .from the time we were bom. She was bom six months before my twin and me. And truly right next door to each other. She was like the triplet; so a lot of her home movies have us in them. Our parents never took home movies. So it was nice for us. Lots and lots on the Helldorado Parade. And I haven't had a chance to look because we just got them. But there could be some wonderful footage for someone like you who never experienced it to see it unless you already have seen footage of the Helldorado Parade. No, I have not. But it would probably also be something that we would be interested in at the university. I would think so. I don't know how much you could cull out of it. But she's got two or three years of it in the early, early 50s. So it would be kind of fun stuff. Yes, it would be. Kind of when it was at its best, really. Oh, my god, it was such a big deal. But it was more than the parade. It was the whole — Yeah. The whole week. Everybody dressed up in cowboy gear. They were putting them in jail. I mean everybody was a sport. Everybody went along with it. Yeah. And then the carnival. 7 Explain the putting them in jail. Well, you had to buy a Helldorado button. But they had a jail downtown, a real jail, and everybody would be in whiskers and cowboy hats and boots and the whole nine yards. But if you didn't have a Helldorado button on, you were going to jail. And then you'd have to get bought out. Yeah. And then you had to pay or get someone to buy you out. And the more prominent you were, the more apt it was that you were going to get—they'd taken the button off you to get you in jail so they'd have to bail you out. And it was fun. Sometimes if you just didn't have your cowboy stuff on, you were going to jail. And I can remember as a child, a little girl, (it was) such a big deal every year to get our cowgirl outfit for the parades. I mean I'm talking very young. So where did you buy all those outfits? You know, I'm going to say Rex Bell's. And that was one of several. The one across the street that Beckley owned was also kind of a cowboy place. And then they had some that were just real ranchy-type stuff. Now, Rex Bell had a store? Uh-huh. It was "the" western store. It was his father. You're thinking of Rex Bell, Jr., the attorney here now. But it was his father, the old famous (actor and politician), yeah. Yes. That lived out in the west. Yeah. He had a store right downtown on Fremont Street. On the corner, too, wasn't it? Huh-uh. What was the one on the corner? The corner was the drugstore. It changed hands a little bit. There was a drugstore there at one time. But his wasn't on the corner. It was Doc's right next door. Doc's, that's what I'm thinking of on corner. No, it was not Doc's. Doc's was next to the movie theater. And then Rex Bell's was next to Doc's. Then there was something on the corner. But they also had a big fort. It was like a big stockade. And that was down towards Dula 8 Center. If you get on Las Vegas Boulevard and go — West. No. You go north. Continue — right. Yeah. You go north towards Cashman Field. It was right between Fremont Street and Cashman Field. It was a big open area and they had it really like a fort. They had big logs that were ten feet tall and then they pointed up like this. So it was a real fort. And inside the carnival would come. Oh, that was a big deal. So was that where the village was? Yeah, Helldorado Village. Okay. I see. Helldorado Village. And then there was the Last Frontier Village. Someone should tell you about the Last Frontier Village. But let's stick with this for a second because this is still Helldorado because this was only active during Helldorado. And once that week was over, they would close it up and it would just be sitting there, sitting there just for that event. Okay, good. Because I was wondering did they take that apart and put it back together every year? No. No. It just stayed there. Yeah. The rides didn't stay there. They came down. No. They moved out because it was a moving circus. Right. Right. But that facility stayed there. It showed you how big it was in Las Vegas for them to let it sit and just wrap it up. And the Elks played a big role in Helldorado. Oh, yes. Because the Elks actually started this? 9 Yes. I think so. You know, I couldn't say who started it. But they certainly—w — when I was involved in terms of just watching it, the Elks were really the motivators and the moving force. So how do you feel about—do you know that Helldorado came back in 2005? Uh-huh. Have you seen one of the parades? No. No. It just got sucked up in the size of the town. Yeah. That was a shame. But you know it's this month. I think it's the 16th. In May, sure. It's always in May. Are they going to do it again? Yes. And where do they do it downtown, Fremont Street? Downtown on Fremont Street. And it's seven o'clock in the evening. That makes sense. But the hotels never got back into really big. It's not on Fremont Street. It's one of the other streets. Fremont is north and south. It's an east-west street. Yeah. You can't do it because they've got the Experience there. Yes, because of that canopy there. Well, that's interesting. One of my other memories that was such a fond memory and it was certainly the very early 50s was the Helldorado Village, no, not the Helldorado Village. It was like the Helldorado Village. It was the Last Frontier Village. It was the Last Frontier Hotel. And then they had a permanent; now it would be kind of like a place where you would take families and kids. I don't know what you'd even call it. Actually, it was part of the hotel. And they had a re-creation — Of the Old West. — of this little town. I mean not a town, but a road in a town. So you saw what looked like authentic stores on either side. With a jail. 10 And you had hitching posts. Of course, actually the Golden Nugget and some of the hotels downtown on Fremont had hitching posts. And they were being used. Yeah, in the old days. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and they were used. And then they had horses out here by the Last Frontier. So you could go ride horses. You could shoot guns. They had beautiful gun shops and shooting galleries. It was very fun. For a kid it was great. They had a merry-go-round. We used to go out there on Sundays. It was just a big treat. It was a gathering place, again, for locals, not so much tourists, really. You have memories of going out there a lot, don't you? I have memories of—I used to ride a lot. And, you know, I was a little kid, a real little kid. The horse would take off with me and I held on for dear life. Like most big horses that are riding horses, it was heading right for the barn and I was just holding on. So I remember that pretty clearly. Well, thank you for that because no one had ever told me about the Last Frontier Village. Yeah. You talk about early memories and things that were fun to do here because they always say there's nothing to do. Yes. And I don't know why people say that. Well, you know, when you're a kid, this is not the greatest place to grow up. Okay. At that time when you were a kid. But there's a lot of things (to do). Lyle: Uh-huh. But even now, though, there are issues. If you're 21, it's not a great place to be because everything is geared in this town for someone who doesn't live here and for someone who's got excess money to spend or coming to town with the idea of spending some money. So it's a really different feel than it used to be. Growing up here in those days so many of the people that were here were in the gaming business. And the comp was (ok) because they weren't corporations. They were owned by, in most cases, the mob. If anybody's father worked in one of those hotels, almost all these guys could comp the shows and food. It was just the best thing in the world like when you're in high school, when you're not a kid, when you're not like eight, nine, ten, 11 11,12, but you re in high school and even if you're not supposed to be drinking and even if you don t drink, if you re 16, 17, 18, these lounge shows, they would have three or four premier, what today would be headliners. And every hotel would have all these. So you could go from place to place and never have to pay. You couldn't get in too much trouble because they knew who you were. You know, you're Joe Blow's son, you're this guy's son, or you're so-and-so's daughter. So it was not really nefarious. You didn't have near the drugs or anything like that that you have today. You know, alcohol would be your biggest sin in most cases. But it was great. It was great. Timbuck: And we were laughing the other day. I ran across some pictures of girlfriends. So this is the early 60s; it s not that far into the past. I'd say it was 1964 and I'm probably 19 years old. We had come home from college and wanted to go see probably Frank Sinatra or someone and we would get dressed up. That's how serious it was. We'd put our mother's minks on and we would go out. Again, someone's father or his boss owned (the place) and you got to sit in the nicest booth. We had to look like fools, but we didn't know it. We thought we were darling in our mother's best. But I was thinking another thing that we used to do as kids. My parents owned a motel on Las Vegas Boulevard called the Old West Motel. And it was all motels. That was all there was on Las Vegas Boulevard. Lyle: Is it still there? Timbuck: You know, I don't know. I'm sure it's not. I am sure. I don't know what's there. But it wasn't too far from Fremont Street, maybe just about four blocks south of Fremont Street, not north, but south. We would walk from where we lived on 1134 South 16th Street all the way up to the Old West because it had a swimming pool. No one had swimming pools in those days. I mean really no one did. I didn't know anyone that did. Lyle: The hotels. Timbuck: The hotels. But they weren't even hotels in those days. I mean there really wasn't. The El Rancho and the Last Frontier were the first two that we knew of that are downtown. But they didn't have swimming pools either. But we had this Old West. And we were very popular because we could walk up there. We didn't need our parents. We were probably nine or ten. We could swim all day and couldn't get into any trouble at all, and walk back home. 12 Lyle: I went to the John C. Fremont pool. Timbuck: Well, that was before John C. Fremont. John C. Fremont wasn't even there yet. Are you kidding? Saint Anne's Elementary — that would have opened in 19 — Didn't you have a pool there? We had the CYO in the back. And we were in grade school then. So that would have been in the late 50s. And that was one of the early kind of community pool. They ended up covering it over. Okay. Which brings me to another point. Where did we go? To swim? They had a pool right down in Las Vegas. I can't remember the name of it. There was a pool right there by, oh, where Las Vegas Boulevard meets Fremont, only a little further down. Further north on Las Vegas? A little further north. And those pools in those days weren't like nice concrete pools. Oh, you're think of—no, you're thinking of Twin Lakes. No, I'm not. That's next on my agenda. Twin Lakes was great. So there was a pool there. I can't remember the name of it, but it was like an artesian well. And then over here they had a place called Twin Lakes. And that was really kind of the hangout. But you needed to get over there. Geography played a role there. So we're talking about Washington and Rancho, sort of? Kind of, yeah. Now, do you realize that you're renovating that area now? Yeah. Yes. They're going to have a grand opening ~ Lorenzi Park. Yes. They're going to have a grand opening sometime in June I believe. Wow. But that was a hangout way back then. And for my mother's generation it was a hangout. That's what I was going to ask. 13 Yeah. That avid that was kind of a lovevs' hangout, too Not for us. Not for our generation. Well, when we were kids that was not available to us unless someone took us because it was too far. It was far. So now, there was a dancing pavilion there. Uh-huh. Right. Tell me about that. Did your parents go to enjoy that? My mother certainly did. I don't know if your mother did. But it was long since gone after — actually I remember the residue of it, but it was not active. I'd go there quite a bit. To dance? No. Just to swim. No, I didn 7 ever dance there. No. I don't think we were the right generation. But I do remember my mother certainly talked about Lorenzi Park because old man Lorenzi, Mr. Lorenzi lived on the other side of us growing up. You know, and the park was his name. And we would go there a lot to Lorenzi Park because that was one of the — for us — I don't know the other place you're talking about. It was down on Las Vegas. And it was a long time ago. Almost down towards Cashman Field. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. That was more your neck of the woods, though, when you lived in that area. It was because I lived downtown. I had a much more privileged early existence than he. And just by — not with so much money. It's just everybody ~ it was a very prominent family and everyone knew you and you were really treated very specially by people because it was such a small town. Yes. Do you remember them talking about live entertainment at Lorenzi Park, Twin Lakes? I remember it, but I — no. It was there. It was certainly there. For sure it was there. It was about the only thing going on for them. I know my mother and my father talked about having gone out there. And they also went to Mount Charleston a lot. That was another place. 14 Did they take the children there, take you as a child? Oh, yeah, as children we went there a lot. But even before that — gosh, I wonder if any of the Ranos would remember any of this, if she's got her marbles, Nadeen Rano. I tell you what. My parents a lot of times — we went out to — not Tule Springs — well, we went to Tule Springs, too. Bonnie Springs? No. Down to Moapa. Really? Warm Springs. Moapa? Oh, Warm Springs. Yeah. That was a big deal. Where is Warm Springs? It s about 40 miles out of Las Vegas. But you drive out there and they had all these palm trees and these natural warm springs. And pools. It was a very, very popular place for Las Vegas. Really? Yeah. It was wonderful. It was near a Mormon development near Moapa. The Mormons had a big ranch out there. And this was right a