Brian Knudsen (City of Las Vegas Councilman) oral history interview conducted by Kelliann Beavers: transcript

An Interview with City of Las Vegas Councilman Brian Knudsen

Perspectives from the COVID-19 Pandemic: Leadership and Learning in Nevada

Produced by:

The University of Nevada Las Vegas The Lincy Institute
2024

Principal Researchers:
Magdalena Martinez, Ph.D. and Kelliann Beavers, Ph.D.

The following interview was a part of the “Perspectives from the COVID-19 Pandemic: Leadership and Learning in Nevada” research project. The recorded interview and transcript were made possible through the generosity of The Lincy Institute at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. The goal of the project was to understand and document how Nevada organizations and leaders responded to the myriad challenges that the pandemic engendered. The interviewees thank The Lincy Institute and their supporters for the opportunity to reflect on their roles throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. The researchers also acknowledge the following individuals who contributed to the conceptualization, data collection, and analysis of the project: Dr. John Hudak, Dr. Makada Henry-Nickie, Elia Del Carmen Solano-Patricio, Taylor Cummings, Peter Grema, Kristian Thymianos, Saha Salahi, Madison Frazee, and Katie Lim.

Each interviewee had the opportunity to review their transcript. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the interviewee. This interview features City of Las Vegas Councilman Brian Knudsen and was conducted on 2/27/2024 by Kelliann Beavers. This interview covers topics including reflections on leadership, organizational challenges, and opportunities for collaboration.

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Interview with Brian Knudsen
Date: 2-27-2024
SPEAKERS: Kelliann Beavers, Brian Knudsen

Kelliann Beavers [00:05]

Okay, so we are here, February 27th, with Councilman Knudsen. And just to confirm, you are comfortable with us recording this interview?

Brian Knudsen [00:14]

I am comfortable, yes.

Kelliann Beavers [00:15]

Okay. So the first question is very broad. Can you describe how you saw your role throughout the pandemic?

Brian Knudsen [00:27]

Yeah. It had a couple of different perspectives of it. In the beginning, I thought that it was my role and responsibility to kind of help shepherd the City of Las Vegas through. Then to be a conduit of information from people in the know, the experts in that field, and try to translate that information, as best I could, to businesses and constituents.

Towards the end, based on how political I got, it seemed like my role was best behind the scenes, and not adding to the confusion that elected officials were kind of putting out there. So my advice, in the end, was to stop listening to elected officials, and just focus on listening to your doctors.

Kelliann Beavers [01:08]

Thank you. That makes sense, and I appreciate you sharing your perspective over time. I know it's been some time since all of this unfolded, and I've been grateful to be able to speak with people throughout the period of time since 2021. Obviously, it's been unique to hear how people have experienced it, depending on when we do the interview.

Brian Knudsen [01:32]

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelliann Beavers [01:33]

Okay. The second question is, can you walk through a timeline as you remember it? What happened, and were there pivotal moments that shaped your response and leadership?

Brian Knudsen [01:45]

Let's see – I'm going to just clarify – as an elected official, right, as opposed to a person going through it?

Kelliann Beavers [01:51]

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Yes. You're welcome to share any of your own perspectives. And I think that's been an interesting thing about the conversations I've had, is that we've had a chance to have leaders be very transparent with us about both their own experience as human beings going through this incredibly unknown event, and how it impacted them as leaders. So to the extent that you'd like to talk about both, I'm interested in both.

Brian Knudsen [02:13]

Okay. I'm going to just share that my first experience was that I have two young children – so I was obviously very anxious and very aware of the impact it has on children. I probably got very super-engaged in the conversations right around the time when the school district was thinking about shutting down. And so that's kind of what – how I think about the pandemic is its impact on children, for the most part.

I have incredible access, which is wonderful. So I noticed there was a UMC doctor who was doing all the Spanish translation, and I also knew that he had kids about the same age. And so I made friends with him and invited him to come and speak on my little social media posts, and then he became known in the city because he could speak in Spanish. So he became kind of my go-to guy for all the inside information on what was going on with COVID.

The go-to people also did not know what was going on, so it was a little bit confusing. I became hyper aware of the politics involved and engaged in the conversations when it came to potentially closing down the schools. So that's where I became a little bit more emotional about it because I had spent a career working with children in poverty and had a pretty good understanding of what would happen if the schools were to close down.

As for using my – not using, that's a bad word – working with my friend, who's an epidemiologist, I helped him form a 501c3 for an epidemiologist society in Southern Nevada. In exchange, I asked for kind of the ins and outs of what was going on and the politics of it. The superintendent and the governor were going back and forth about whether the school district should be open or closed.

There was – I don't know if it's come up in your other interviews – there was a large contingent of leaders who were invited on a weekly basis to talk about what was happening. It's called the NMAC, the National Multi-Agency Coordination Group, and they were kind of going back and forth. None of them had insight, in my opinion, or an understanding of the impacts on children. So I presented a very, very strong case for keeping the schools open, despite the political climate, just based on the fact that children in poverty would struggle tremendously if the schools were closed down.

The governor and the superintendent got into a fight that week, and the schools got shut down the next day. So I kind of lost that and lost my energy for fighting for something that I thought really would have a huge impact, a dramatic impact, which I think has proven to be the case since the schools have reopened, and society's kind of back to normal. Although I think we're seeing that it is absolutely not back to normal at all.

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So I did a whole bunch of information sessions. I did business information sessions talking about the role of the city. I was pretty engaged in keeping the city open for different ways of doing business. So the drive-up bars, drive-up restaurants, and all those kinds of things that came out of COVID. I think I was kind of in the beginning stages of this because I had so many conversations with businesses, and then had a lot of energy. So I worked with the city to open up our business community in those forms and fashions, and then the other – the rest of the valley kind of followed suit.

The most remarkable moments for me were individual. I still – when we started to open up again, but with masks and [05:38] everywhere, I would do like little coffee meetings with the neighborhoods. I remember one in particular – about 15 people came, they were all wearing masks, and everyone was very compliant. And one couple came and just started yelling at me. They were both in masks, identified as a long-term Las Vegas couple, and both of them had doctorate degrees. But they were yelling at me for the masks, saying that it was a detriment to society, it was an infringement upon their rights, and I just let them yell at me. I just kind of stepped outside. Everyone else was waiting for me. I let them yell at me for about – it was like a full 10 minutes where they just yelled at me.

Then after that, the energy just deflated. They became very pleasant, and very kind, and started talking about how the government should focus more on solar energy and completely transition to solar energy. So I found that was my experience, and what I think is still the case is everybody just needs to collectively scream and yell, as loud as they possibly can, and then move on to something else, and I still hold that belief today.

My next most stark memory was that – again, back to children – I wanted to focus on the immunizations for children. That was a very hot topic. I figured I could be of some use because I have two young kids, and I was the vice chair of the Southern Nevada Health District at the time. So I said they could use me in a press conference – I talked about my kids, and I talked about how I trusted the system and hopefully, people could trust their elected officials.

In retrospect, I think that was a bad decision. I don't think elected officials should have been involved at all in any way. But at that time, I thought I could be useful. And so I was at a press conference when they first had the first doses of youth vaccinations. I kind of got up there – there were, I'm going to say, 100 people who were chanting at me "baby killer" and "child abuser," and they all had giant signs saying that I was a child abuser. I just stood there, kind of listened, and said my little speech about the fact that I trusted that my kids would get it, I felt comfortable that I would get it, and not to force anybody, but they should talk to the doctors. That was basically my message, but the child abuser and child killer message kind of hurt a little bit.

It was interesting because later that day, I did bring my five, I think six-year-old in to get immunized, and all those people who I saw chanting against me were in line at a Joey Gilbert campaign bus. He was running for governor at the time, and they were all getting paid. And so that was just an interesting thing to see.

Then, as we started to open up again, I think all the realizations that I feared most kind of came true. Children in poverty – I believe that we probably lost a generation of people, which is

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devastating to me. People with resources – I had resources – my kids were in school the entire time, and my kids were going to be fine. People in poverty didn't have that option afforded to them, and they would not be fine.

There are lots of issues in schools. We're losing teachers at a drastic rate. We're losing principals at a drastic rate. The mental health issues in our community are so overwhelming that we're losing police officers and firefighters because that's all they deal with is trauma and mental health issues. That's not just our city, that's across the country.

So, a devastating experience as a leader. I think if I had the ultimate power, I would say to take elected officials out of it altogether. I think we screwed it up pretty badly. So I don't know if that answers your question, but those are all my feelings about it.

Kelliann Beavers [09:24]

Thank you. That was all very eye-opening. Is what you mean when you say that in retrospect, you're not sure elected officials should have been participants, is what you mean at the moment, that we were trying to clarify for people, that vaccines were safe, and educating them about the steps. In retrospect, do you think that should have been led by the medical community?

Brian Knudsen [09:51]

Yes, both on the masks and the immunizations.

Kelliann Beavers [09:57]

Right.

Brian Knudsen [09:58]

The closure of businesses and the closure of the world, basically, is the job of an elected official, but it should have been at the direction of medical professionals. Instead, it just became that Republicans didn't want masks and closures, the Democrats wanted more masks and more closures, and it just became completely politicized, leaving the medical community out of it altogether. That's how they felt. They felt pulled by elected officials to do what their constituents were asking them to do, as opposed to what they thought was right.

I remember there's one – my most memorable conversation I had with my friend, who's the epidemiologist, who had kids the same age. I was getting gas at the gas pump, and I was telling him "You have to advise the governor to – and he was on that task force –"You have to advise him to keep schools open. We know what's going to happen to the children," and he said, "But we do not know what's going to happen with COVID." I said, "We absolutely know what happened with kids in poverty. We know what's going to happen. We have decades of data to show what's going to happen with children if they don't go to school."

That doctor was on the fence the entire time. Like I'm not going to say he was for keeping them open, but I talked him into at least having a reasonable conversation. We both lost that debate, the schools closed, and his kids now go to my school, a private school, and it was very specifically related to that.

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Kelliann Beavers [11:17]

Thank you for sharing the nuances of that and helping me understand your perspective in retrospect. I just want to reflect a moment on what you began – your response to that question with – where you were talking about how there was a couple who shouted at you and suggested that you were the root of all evil with respect to the masks. And that you, as a leader, opted to just give them space to do that, and absorb them expressing wherever they were coming from. Not that it didn't impact you emotionally or personally, but you chose not to engage with it from that part of yourself, and just to allow them to move on, and then you to move on with them.

I think that's a really – number one, mature, but also elevated approach to being able to engage with the amount of anger that was directed at people during this time. Is there anything you want to say about that, and about what it meant to you to sort of lead that way – to lead in a way, to your point that sometimes people just need to shout and scream about whatever's bothering them, and then people can move on?

Brian Knudsen [12:29]

Yeah. I don't – it's one person's perspective. In my worldview, I think Democrats, Republicans, and elected officials in general, the people running for office, took advantage of this pandemic, and they took advantage of it in a way that twisted data, and they took advantage of it in a way that took advantage of the people who were emotionally caught up in it. They took advantage of peoples' assumptions, and they took advantage of trying to get people together to fight for one cause versus another.

I think that at the end of the day, people aren't mad at elected officials. They're mad at the situation. We needed to acknowledge and recognize that and give them the space and freedom to be mad and angry. They weren't – they were not mad at elected officials. Elected officials used it against each other. We have a world in complete chaos right now, based on what I can see, and it all started from – it's been going on for a while. It's not just COVID, but COVID exacerbated it significantly.

People are angry at elected officials when – if you listen to them long enough, it's not elected officials, it's not government, it's not bureaucracy, and it's not Democrats or Republicans. It's the fact that we had a worldwide pandemic, and their lives drastically changed because of that. We need to let them feel that.

Kelliann Beavers [13:47]

Yeah. Thank you for acknowledging that. I think it's applicable to various levels of our history, and I think there's a real call for leaders who are willing to step into the space that acknowledges that as the most compassionate and informed way forward.

The next question is something that you already, to some extent, spoke about. So I'm going to say it, and if you'd like to share anything else, you can, otherwise, we can move on. It's, how did you work with groups who were hardest hit by the pandemic, and who were those groups from your perspective?

Brian Knudsen [14:23]

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The people that were hardest hit didn't have an access point to me. So that's a continual shame or guilt, and I'm not sure which feeling that is. It's underserved, underrepresented communities that don't have access to me or anybody like me.

So the groups that I spent the most time with knew how to call me, knew how to email me, knew how to text me, and knew how to show up at a coffee meeting and yell at me. Those were the groups that ended up getting the most amount of attention; so businesses got a whole lot of attention, and that trickles down to everybody, so it's not that terrible. But the people who needed government didn't know how to reach out and say, "I need your help," and we wouldn't know how to help them anyway.

So that's – it's the point that as an elected official, I could continually just feel shame, remorse, or guilt over the fact that I don't know how to reach people who are huddled up in their homes and complaining about the world around them – just like everybody else – but don't have a way to reach out and say, "This is how to help me," and that was exacerbated again by COVID.

Kelliann Beavers [15:25]

Absolutely. Is there anything you wish the government, at any level, did differently, or could do differently now, in response to the pandemic or the economic downturn after the pandemic?

Brian Knudsen [15:42]

With the pandemic, there was a very large disconnect between different levels of government. So with the federal government, you'd have politics, if it comes down to problems with politicians and bureaucracies, do you have politicians that would express something for a campaign? Or even – I was on the health district board, so FEMA and the national or federal government would say, "We're going to distribute immunization supplies to everyone around the country." Then you'd sit there at the health district, and wait and wait and wait, and no immunizations would come.

So it creates this vacuum of leadership. It creates this vacuum that you don't know how to fill, and so you end up filling it with things that make it worse. I think that's something the government should have done differently. I mean there's no way to prepare for this, but if there was better communication amongst elected officials and government leaders, if there was true and honest communication that wasn't wrapped up in social media. If it was a – "Listen, we're going to try and get a billion vaccinations, and we're going to get them to you as fast as you can. In the meantime, here are the things you need to do."

If every local government and state government understood that, and were responsible, mature, and managed that in the same kind of fashion, I think it would have been okay. What ended up happening is that you'd have different factions of political parties or ideologies spin that information, and then you'd get a completely different response from every different government agency.

People were confused – so that's one thing I think the government could have done differently, is just to have been on the same page, taking the politics out of it, and you can still agree to disagree. There are lots of areas where I would have kept schools open. Nobody – there are a lot

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of people that disagree with me on that. Teachers disagree with me on that. But at least have an open, honest conversation about what the impacts are going to be, and then set up the government to respond to those impacts. We are not quite ready to respond to what the impacts of the pandemic will be for that generation of children. We're not even close to that.

So that's why I think, during the pandemic and post-pandemic, as elected officials, it would be – I try to give everyone time and space to yell at me. So I think that's kind of what would be helpful is if we – I don't know – it's not a day of mourning, celebration, or whatever it is, but to give people an opportunity to yell and scream at the top of their lungs and leave the government out of it. Just get all those feelings out, and let's come together and think about how we take politics out of these conversations because they don't belong there – they don't fit. And I don't know that anybody has the emotional maturity to do that. It's a pretty hard thing to do, and I don't know how to do it. So that's the challenge we're all kind of struggling with, I think.

Kelliann Beavers [18:30]

Well, I definitely think you're taking steps toward it that are unique, in comparison to many leaders, so I commend you for that.

The next question is, were there any specific policies that the state or federal government, i.e. the CARES Act and ARPA, implemented that you noticed impacted people? If so, how, either positively or negatively?

Brian Knudsen [18:55]

Are you talking about just the dollars or the policies?

Kelliann Beavers [18:58]

It does not have to be just the dollars, the policies themselves. And for that matter, if you'd rather speak to policies that changed at the local level, that's also fine. Just your perspective on ways in which policy change impacted people positively or negatively.

Brian Knudsen [19:11]

One – let's see. The best way – I would talk about it personally. Let's start there, and then I'll go from a citywide perspective. So the CARES dollars created all these amazing incentives for people who knew how to apply for funds. In the private sector, the rich people got significantly richer. To be very honest, my husband's a lawyer. They formed multiple organizations, they applied for funding, and they all got funding.

So the rich people got richer. The poor people didn't understand the process or system and were taken advantage of. In Nevada, in particular, the workforce unemployment claims were a complete disaster. We weren't prepared for that system, and that policy, in particular, had detrimental impacts that we felt for a very long time.

The incentives for people to stay at home are an interesting one, but I don't know that have a complete answer for it yet. But it sure did have a huge impact on our workforce because people cannot find employees anymore, and that's true today. It's very, very difficult to find employees. I

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don't know if that's because they got used to staying at home, on money that was coming in, that wasn't ever there before. I have no idea.

The most interesting dynamic is that in every employer that came to me, immediately following the pandemic, we could not find employees. We have so many jobs, and nobody will come and work for us. I experienced that myself in hiring people. I could not get people to work.

So that was an interesting outcome. The ARP dollars set up enormous amounts of money coming into the community, and some really good projects will come out of it, capital projects will come out of it, so buildings. But like the story in the RJ a couple of days ago, the school district will run out of ARP funds for mental health services, and they don't have any funding to replace that, and I think there are unanticipated outcomes for lots of government money. I don't think that we actually know what those are yet because we haven't felt it, but I think we're going to start feeling it pretty soon here.

So I worry about setting high expectations for people that we can't fulfill as a government. I think the policies around the funding made sense at the time, and I think people really put a lot of thought into it, but with every policy, there's somebody that's very smart and finds all the loopholes. I think we created policies where rich people found all the loopholes, and benefited greatly, and poor people will struggle for a generation.

Kelliann Beavers [21:49]

Thank you for that. What do you think were the most innovative ways organizations and citizens have dealt with the challenges of the pandemic and/or recession? It can be examples of collaboration programs or anything else that comes to mind.

Brian Knudsen [22:12]

(pauses) Isn't that sad? I don't know.

Kelliann Beavers [22:17]

You know, what's funny is that for a long time, the people's response to that answer was roughly like – it was really innovative in the way we worked with people we'd never worked with before. And it took maybe like 40 interviews before I sat down by myself and said, "Isn't that sad that that's the answer?" That's the consistent answer across interviews was that everyone was so grateful for the opportunity for people to be willing to work together instead of being siloed. In any case, you can answer the question however you'd like, but it is definitely a question that I think more than one person gave pause.

Brian Knudsen [22:56]

Are all of your interviewees elected officials or leaders in this space?

Kelliann Beavers [23:01]

Not all elected officials, but we interviewed, relatively equally, elected officials, leaders of government agencies, leaders of nonprofits, and leaders in education and business.

Brian Knudsen [23:14]

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So my real answer would be, as an elected official, that's how I would talk about it in a room full of people. My off-the-record to the media, but honest answer, would be I don't think anything was innovative or creative. I think we fell monumentally as a human race.

Kelliann Beavers [23:32]

Yeah, I feel that. And I think a wonderful thing about the opportunity to ask these questions is that we've had the chance for people to be transparent with us about those kinds of feelings and thank you for that transparency.

The next question is, what can we learn from the COVID crisis that could be lessons for future crises?

Brian Knudsen [23:56]

So I'm spending a lot of time on – it's trust-based relationship interventions. It's a mental health ideology, I guess, working with children coming from trauma. The basic tenet is, you have to meet a child where he's at or she's at. You can't expect them to be more than what they are.

So when I say what – the question is, what can we learn? I don't think we're ready to evolve yet. I think we're kind of stuck, and we need to kind of understand where we are right now. We need to spend a good amount of time studying and researching the – I would love to say, Democrats or Republicans, but like the human species, to figure out emotionally, where we are as a species, and how ready we are to evolve.

I think there's some – my assumption is, there's some good comparisons to what civilization was like in the Dark Ages. My guess is that we're probably, mentally, somewhere around that phase right now. We're just not ready to learn new things yet. We still need to struggle a little bit. Hopefully, there will be a period of enlightenment where we understand how to work with each other, understand how to work with government agencies and understand the basic humanity, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I think that we have to meet people where they are and try to let them get past some of the trauma associated with what happened over the last several years.

Kelliann Beavers [25:17]

The method you described about trust-based relational – I don't remember the next words-

Brian Knudsen [25:24]

Interventions

Kelliann Beavers [25:25]

-interventions. So I obviously don't know the ins and outs of that approach. It seems to me, based on what you shared, that an important tenet of it is the trust-building aspect with the individual, versus trying to make anything in particular happen.

So do you think it's fair to say, or to extend what you just said, to comment that a good deal of our work in the present moment is going to be on building trust with one another, whatever that means, versus trying to make change happen?

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Brian Knudsen [26:00]

Yes. You said it more intelligently than I than I did. My reasoning for that is those busloads of people that were chanting that I'm a child killer and child abuser. I could have taken it personally, and sometimes it still hurts a little bit. At the end of the day, they were in line to get a paycheck, they had some kind of desperate need to fulfill, and that was how they did it.

I think, generally, we're all kind of in the same position trying to put food on the table, put our kids through school, get decent health care, and if anything threatens any one of those components, we react. So until we trust that everybody's kind of doing the same thing, want the same thing, and are doing their very best, we're going to be constantly in the fight or flight mode, and we're going to attack to get what we need. That's kind of what was shown for me, at least, during COVID that people did whatever they had to do to survive. We're still kind of in that mentality right now with elected officials, maybe being at the tip of the spear, demonstrating that you have to do anything you can to stay in power to get what you need, and I think that trickles down to everybody.

Kelliann Beavers [27:12]

Absolutely. I think there's an important aspect of that that has to do with beginning to trust that. I'm not saying this is true – but were it to be true everyone agrees that we all want each other to be safe and that everyone's safety matters to us. I feel like that's a really important first step towards this, and that's going to definitely require a sea change on multiple levels.

Brian Knudsen [27:41]

Yes.

Kelliann Beavers [27:43]

Okay. The last question is, are you hopeful? And if yes, what are you hopeful for?

Brian Knudsen [27:51]

Well, I sounded pretty awful [27:52] I-

Kelliann Beavers [27:54]

You didn't seem to lack hope, though. And I know you, as a human being, not to lack hope.

Brian Knudsen [28:00]

I'm actually launching a Hope Initiative at the city council next Wednesday. I'm actually –it's bringing the city to be part of a Hopeful Cities initiative. I have learned that hope is not a skill that you're born with; it's not a trait that you're born with; it's something that's taught.

So I'm kind of putting all of my eggs in a basket that if I can influence the people around me and teach them how to hope, to the best of my ability, then I think that's something we can replicate in other parts of our community in the country. So I am hopeful. I'm hopeful that we move past the dark ages. I think we can do it faster in this particular time in our existence because we have more knowledge, more information, and more resources.

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I believe that history has taught us that, at some point, somebody is going to come forward and bring enlightenment, and ideas will start forming and trust will start forming, but I think it's going to take a minute. Until we accept the fact that there is a possible future where we all get along, there is a future where it's not really Democrat or Republican, it's just people trying to do the best that they can to provide for their families themselves.

I think it's going to take a minute to get there, but I do. I think there are lots of opportunities, and I think that every crisis provides opportunities that you can't even predict right now. There's some individual, there's some company, and there's some family somewhere that's going to provide this beacon of hope for the rest of us, and we're all going to say, "We got it wrong for a little while, but now, we're going in the right direction." So I have incredible hope for the world around us, and it's just the perseverance to keep trying new things.

Kelliann Beavers [29:40]

Absolutely. Thanks for sharing about the Hopeful Cities Initiative. I'll have to follow up at the end of that. It sounds really interesting. And thank you for everything that you shared. This was really eye-opening. I'm so grateful that we have a chance to include your voice among the voices that we will include in the archives. And yeah, like I said, we're having a community forum in April to reflect on what we've learned from this project. I know it's the same week as that other mental health forum that's that Friday, so you may be too busy that week. But if you do have time, we'd love to have you.

Brian Knudsen [30:13]

What day is it?

Kelliann Beavers [30:15]

It's April 2nd, which is a Tuesday morning.

Brian Knudsen [30:23]

I should be able to do that. I'd love to.

Kelliann Beavers [30:25]

Okay, great. Well – and thank you, aside from this interview, for all the work that you're doing with respect to the Children's Mental Health Coalition. It has been so heartening for me to engage with the people from that group, and to learn about the wheels that are turning and continue to turn. I would not have been able to connect with many of them were it not for you igniting that, so thank you.

Brian Knudsen [30:47]

Thank you very much. Are you coming to the mixer on the 11th?

Kelliann Beavers [30:50]

I am actually going to be in Texas. I'm going to play a song for my songwriting group, with my mom, at a little open mic thing.

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Brian Knudsen [30:59]

That's wonderful.

Kelliann Beavers [31:00]

So I will miss that, which I do lament, but I am participating in the subgroup that Will Rucker's leading, and in an ongoing way, I'll come to the in-person meetings for the larger group, too.

Brian Knudsen [31:12]

That's awesome. Thank you for doing that. I really appreciate it.

Kelliann Beavers [31:14]

Of course. I'm glad to be a part of it.

Brian Knudsen [31:17]

That's the hope that I believe in is that people are still willing to come together and try something new.

Kelliann Beavers [31:22]

100%. And I've seen a lot of already – you know, just patience. People having patience with each other, meeting people where they are, and absorbing things. So I'm really hopeful because of that group, so thank you for it, and thank you for your time. I'm sure you are busy, so I won't occupy any more of your schedule. I greatly appreciate you, Councilman Knudsen, and look forward to sharing this transcript with you, so you can look it over, make any changes if you'd like, and then we'll make it a part of our archives.

Brian Knudsen [31:50]

I won't make any changes. I appreciate you very much, and thanks for what you're doing. That's how we make a difference, so thank you for doing that.

Kelliann Beavers [31:56]

All right. Thank you. Have a good afternoon.

Brian Knudsen [31:59]

You too. Bye-bye.

Kelliann Beavers [32:00]

Bye.

End of audio: 32:04

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