Transcript of interview with Kerin Scianna Rodgers by Suzanne Becker and Claytee D. White, February 7, 2009 and August 11 & 16, 2011

An Interview with Kerin Rodgers An Oral History Conducted by Suzanne Becker & Claytee D. White Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2007 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach and Gloria Homol Transcribers: Kristin Hicks and Laurie Boetcher Interviewers and Project Assistants: Barbara Tabach and Claytee D. White ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer and the Library Advisory Committee. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Additional transcripts may be found under that series title. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iii Summary of Interview List of Illustrations Preface Interview Index Table of Contents v-vi vii viii 1-64 65-66 iv Summary of Interviews Las Vegas, Nevada February 17, 2009 conducted by Suzanne Becker August 11& 16, 2011 conducted by Claytee White* rr°n:,b°m m0nt'MA (1936) Famil5' Aground and stories. Early education and appearance on Adele Bailey's Little Bear Club radio show. Father was a successful businessman, mother a special education teacher. Recalls knowing the Joseph Kennedy family in Boston g 1 Move to Seattle, WA (post-1945). Attends Catholic grade and high schools there. Does some television work and a radio show, Tony Lease's Lease on Life. Early involvement with Junior Democrats 4 Attends University of Washington. 1 alks about how theatre arts department got caught up in the McCarthy era (1950Ti 6 Marries and moves to Santa Monica, CA. Divorces. Opens dress shop and modeling agency with best friend, artist Marilyn Pf»tprcnn 8 Works ror L.A. County Parks and Recreation, Social and Cultural Department teaching theatre arts and seniors exercise in West Hollywood, for Vic Tanny Centers, and for Shakespeare Festival players. Marilyn Peterson remarries and they sell dress shop and modeling agency 11 talks about her daughter Lesh and living in John S. Park neighborhood Reflects on two women operating a business in the 1950s and why and how they did it. Develops the L.A. County Parks and Recreation Senior Citizen Art Festival Relocates to Las Vegas. NV to work for The RrnaHwiv (\ 12 talks about work with Focus House in Reno and Las Vegas, and reasons for moving to Las Vegas to work for The Broadway 13 16 Observations on first seeing Las Vegas: "Where's the town?"Remembers opening night of The Broadway (November 1966) and later attending an election-night party of Las Vegas political figures. Beginning of political involvement in Las Vegas. Her interest in bikes and Bike Plan 72 17 How she came to live in the John S. Park area: lived first in Crestwood neighborhood, then moved to John S. Park Neighborhood (1974). Stories of previous owner, Mrs. Claire Barry; of visit with builder of house, Paul Huffy and of enmity between Huffy and Imppy families 20 Describes the house and John S. Park Neighborhood on first arrival (1974)- Mormon-Catholic-Jewish neighborhood, white, not expensive but refined People worked at NTS, in government, in hotel industry, in various professions. Tells story about her work on the ERA and opposition of neighbor Dr Jones 24 Political aspect of John S. Park area: the activities and the personalities who lived there. Friendship with Maisie Gibson Ronnow, and history of Gibson family in Las Vegas. More personalities who lived in the John S. Park Neighborhood 28 v .^volvemenUyi^ocus Youth House and the people she met there NeishborhonH "eigh^0rho°d and sense of community, and how the John S. Park TiiesH u ,af C ang smce 2000: less friendly, more structured. First uesdays hosted by police department. Criminal incidents in the neighborhood Kaising a child and erowinv un in 1QFIOC A MO-;™ 33 31 nfadiPatl0n,m entertainment activities in Las Vegas: Helldorado and other parades, production of shows in Strip nightclubs 40 42 served as commissioner on White House commission of the performing arts Speaks about her involvement in the arts in Las Vegas, and popularity of and ding for the arts in the Las Vegas area. Talks about advent of First Friday and the downtown Arts District y 44 Significant changes to the JoMS^kN^h^ a^nstmTalK0rb Cl0sing 0f Circle Park> rea^ and arguments for and against. Talks about her television show and other recollections as shared in her August 2011 interview. 47 printedlnScs011 excerPts are mer§ed with original interview and vi * List of Illustrations Kerin s John S. Park neighborhood home, Photo of her daughter. Lesli; from her TV show The People Speak Photos with Governors Mike O'Callaghan, Grant Sawyer, Mayor Ron Lurie at the 1975 Cyclathon National political scene with U.S. Senators Edward Kennedy Harry Reid, President Clinton, and Romanian royalty, Queen Anne and King Michele Thunderbird Hotel & Casino brochure; letter from Maya Miller Following Page: 24 vii Preface Kerin Rodgers was born in 1936. She recounts her family history and stories of her youth growing up in Boston, MA, and shares how the family relocated to Seattle, WA in the mid-1940s. She talks about her enjoyment of theatrical arts and politics, and about being a resourceful divorced, single-mom and entrepreneur. In 1958 she opened a retail fashion store and modeling agency with a friend in Santa Monica, CA. Kerin had a knack for fashion and interior design that would assist her then and into the future. She also shares the story of arriving in Las Vegas as part of retail job with The Broadway stores in 1966—a two-week stint that seemed to have no ending. Her transition into Las Vegas included remarriage, a 1974 Keno win that enabled her to put down money on a home ( a house built by Paul Huffey) in the John S. Park neighborhood, and making close friends in the community. Her interview is sprinkled with tales of activities and personalities from the neighborhood's past and present. Kerin was involved with the Focus Youth House, speaks about First Fridays and art, as well as gives a perspective of police, criminal behaviors and changes in the neighborhood over the years. She hosted a local television show and enjoyed being a community activist. viii ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood Name of Narrator: . Use Agreement P I R \ KA Q-PRT Name ol Interviewer: ^ ^ Secke We, the above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded intervicw(s) initiated on 20 ey as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada las Vegas, legal title and all liLerary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude die right of the interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Signature of Narrator JAJJAZ 'L2XD Signature of Interviewer Date Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7010 (702) 895-2222 Interview with Kerin Rodgers February 17, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Suzanne Becker August 11 & 16, 2011 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Claytee D. White Today is February 17, 2009. I'm here with Kerin Rodgers for the John S. Park Oral History Project. And Kerin, thank you again. Thank you. You have great stories. We've been talking and I want to come back to those. But also I want to start at the beginning with you: when you were born, where you're from, where did you grow up. Me before John S. Park? Yeah. Oh my Lord! Life before life! All right, well, I was born in Belmont, Massachusetts, which is a luxury town (that means no industry or something), a small town outside of Cambridge, Massachusetts. And my grandfather was Doctor Charles W. Rodgers, an important man in Boston [Massachusetts], Amongst other things, Doctor Rodgers wrote books, and served as a temporary ambassador to Wales back in [the] Coolidge [administration]. And then my father Anthony Rodgers, he's written about in some of these, was Mr. Boston in 1923, which is quite a title. There's even books called Mr. Boston. Not about him but about the title. That's like Man of the Year for the Boston Commons and so forth. So I had a popular family. And my mother and her sister, Margaret Mary Healy, were popular people, too. 1 What did your father do for a living? And my father was — kind of an interesting story from being Mr. Boston. My father was born into a wealthy family and didn't really have — educated man. But actually, until after the war, I don't think he did much except trust fund or something. But he was an orator and he spoke at civil things. We'd go to the Public Gardens in Boston and ride the swan boats, and my father would talk about Curley or whatever it was. Later, after the war — that's World War II— he took a position a representative for Lily-Tulip paper cup company. That's how we ended up traveling and ending up in Seattle, Washington. So your mother was a schoolteacher. ...My mother, while we were in Boston, was a schoolteacher and especially into — they didn't call it special education at the time. But anyhow, she worked with Rose Marie (Kennedy), the daughter (of Joseph and Rose Kennedy), before she had her surgery. So we knew the Kennedys from way back when, but didn't know they were going to become the first family of the United States of America. And they're from the same area? Yeah. Right. My mother and my Aunt Mary were the best-dressed ladies at one time in Boston. And as a matter of fact, in my entry here you'll see a picture of Margaret Hamilton. Well, Margaret Hamilton and [actor] Ray Bolger were their good friends, and Ray Bolger dated my mother before she married my father. She told Ray Bolger that she didn't think he could keep her in Coty's cold cream, and didn't marry him. And my aunt tells the story, so it might not have been quite as bad as all that, but at any rate it was quite a treat for him when he was able to send her a case of cold cream. [Laughing] 2 And my sister was very talented back in Belmont. She was in Boston. She went to the Boston Conservatory. Is she older or younger? Three years older. She's deceased now. What's her name? Janet Elaine Rodgers. And she was a protege Chopin pianist, and also artist, and I'll show you one of her recent, before she died, pieces of art, in a minute. I won't interrupt the taping for that. At any rate, after the war—to me there's only one war—but after World War II, and my years at Kendall School in Belmont and so forth—oh, oh, I had a radio show there. I was on the radio. I didn't own the radio show. It was Adele Bailey's Little Bear Club, and I was one of the characters on the Little Bear Club, on WMEX in Boston. How long did you do that? I guess it must've been a couple of years. How did you get involved in that? Well, I was always that way, wanting to do this. I wrote letters to the club and asked the lady [if I could appear on the show]. My sister was so talented that I was always looking for things I could do. How old were you when you were doing that? Eight, nine, and ten, I guess. It was '44, '45, '46, in there. I was born in 1936. Anyhow, so I would go to downtown Boston in my little red patent [leather] shoes with pink socks, and a red dress with pink bows on it, and off I'd go in my little Shirley Temple outfit to do [singing] "Cream of Wheat is so good to eat and we have it every 3 day, and that kind of thing, on the Little Bear Club. There's still a Little Bear cartoon that s on TV that I notice on one of the cartoon channels, and I keep wondering, I wonder if that s the same character, the same original author, because it's called Little Bear, and this was called Little Bear, you'd think maybe [that something came out of it]. It's a cartoon, however, rather than a radio [show]. Of course, on the radio, you could pretend to be cartoons. It didn't matter. We were cartoons but we were just voices. But at any rate, sometime after the war, my father transferred to Seattle, Washington. And in Seattle, my sister and I went to Holy Rosary Grade School and High School, Catholic schools there. And she continued to do very, very well in music, and until the day she died she was winning music [awards]. She never wanted to be a professional because she was in the religion, but she always entered things just to keep herself in tune. And as an artist and musician, she was just marvelous. So I always went in the direction of plays and drama and radio and television and that kind of thing. And I did some television in Seattle, and I was Sea Fair Princess in the Sea Fair in 1956 and had my picture and my trophy in the newspaper and all that. So that was fun. My girlfriend, Marilyn Pepper Peterson, the artist that painted that picture and that picture and others throughout the house; she and I were best friends in school, and she became an artist. I mean not just a hobby. She's a professional artist, with a gallery. But in those days, we were doing all the modeling kind of things, and I was doing a radio show called Tony Lease's Lease on Life. And the emcee of the show or the mistress of ceremonies of the show turned up in Las Vegas in the eighties. This was in the fifties, don't forget. So like thirty years later I see this lady over at Rainbow's End health food store and I said, are you Zeo? Zeo Trombley. She said yeah. I said, I'm Kerin Rodgers. 4 And we kind of hit it off for a few times and then [it ended]. We weren't destined to be best friends but it was kind of a funny, small-world kind of thing, you know. [Actress Dorothy] Dottie Provine was on the show, too. What kind of a show was it? What did you guys do? I just introduced people to the host. You know, smaller than Vanna White. And Dottie Provine did that, too. She wasn't a guest. Do you know who she is? No. OK. And it seems to me that [actress] Dyan Cannon was something to do with it, too. I went to Holy Rosary; she went to Holy Names. But I don't remember specifically, except I knew I knew her. But I don't know whether she was involved with the Sea Fair or with the television station. KING television station. But, at any rate, we got involved with politics, too. In those days, Scoop Jackson was just coming up. Later, as a Las Vegan, twenty, thirty years later, I supported Scoop Jackson as a presidential candidate. So it sounds like you were really quite involved and vocal. Yeah. And I was head of what they called at the time, Junior Democrats. Young Democrats, you're old enough to vote. Junior Democrats, you weren't. Was your family political? Oh, very. When you grow up in Boston, it's God, Country, Family, Church, all the same thing. There's no difference. I mean, they have precinct meetings in the home, da da da. Everybody did the same thing. Everybody was Irish, Catholic, Democrat, from Boston. Anyhow, everybody, in my eyes, you understand. There may have been others, but I never met any of them. 5 We'd go to the Cape in the summertime. Recently my cousin Jimmy passed away. He was in a family cottage on the Cape right down the street from the Kennedy compound. So he used to send me all the articles and everything going on with the Kennedys. And he's see them at mass and so forth. There was a slight relationship there. My grandmother, Mini Ma Rodgers, had a sister who married Steve Fitzgerald, who is a cousin of Honey Fitzgerald who was the father of Rose who married Joseph, whom my grandfather, Patrick J. Healey, didn't like at all because Joseph was into the liquor business and Patrick J. Healey didn't approve of that. Oh. He was a bootlegger, yes. So he didn't approve of that at all. However, he played bridge with Honey Fitz. And I still have, in one of my various boxes that I didn't give to Jean Ford of stuff, bridge tallies and so forth with Honey Fitz's name on it. And so there's that relationship with the Fitzgeralds. ...So we knew the Kennedys from way back when, but didn't know they were going to become the first family of the United States of America. So what kinds of political things as a teenager or as a young person were you involved with? Well, mainly it was having these little meetings with the Junior Democrats. At that time, all I remember real precisely was an article I wrote on the Bricker Amendment, which was on national health. And I remember, they quoted me from the school paper to the local paper because I made a mistake, a dyslexic mistake, that everybody liked. I kept saying, oh no, I didn't mean to say that. But I said the Bricker Amendment was as American as huckleberry pie. And I meant Huckleberry Finn or apple pie. I got Huckleberry Finn and apple pie mixed up. But somebody liked it and it stuck. [Laughing] So I got quoted. So I became a little more popular. 6 But, at any rate, I did some things, and then I went for a short time to the University of Washington, out to the theatre arts department there. My sister went to Seattle University, a Catholic university. I didn't. Everything was happening at once. My two professors, A1 Wheeler and Bob Dinsborne, were accused of being Communists because they were gay, but I didn't know what gay meant. But I did know what Communist meant, and they weren't, but all of a sudden the theatre department closed down, there was a big flap, they got fired from the university, our whole [play] Desire Under the Elms never happened, even though I had a part. [Laughing] So this is obviously during the McCarthy era. Yeah. And were you in general aware of what was going on? Yeah. Yeah, I was, but I just knew that they weren't [Communists]. The thing is, I knew politically, Communists, all that stuff, I knew it was a big witch hunt, I knew it was horrible. I just didn't know what gay meant, because I was a Catholic high school graduate, you know. Huh? What do you mean? Oh, I know a lot of guys that like guys. They play football. I mean I don't know. [Laughing] But anyhow, I can remember being shocked when somebody finally explained it to me. Shocked! But I mean I didn't really care. I said, why does anybody care? And to this day I say the same thing, why does anybody care? I don't want to hear about it but why does anybody care? I'll tell you one thing about Catholic school, at least the one I went to. I hear all these things about various religions, including my own, and I have my own complaints about various religions, including my own, but one thing for sure, we were never taught to mind other people's business. We were taught to mind our own and each other's in our 7 own [family], but we were not taught that the people down the street were any of our business. I'm glad I still profess that. But anyhow, the Sea Fair was over, the university was over, my sister went off to the missions, my father was ill and my mother was taking care of my father, and I got married and moved to Santa Monica, California. Marilyn, my best friend from school, got married, moved to Southern California. Her husband left, my husband left. I had a nice little house on the beach in Santa Monica. She moved in. She still says I saved her life and her little boy's life. Her stories are really, really neat because she has me out to be some kind of a splendid person that took her in where she had no place to go. We shared [a home]. She did her part. What year was this? This is 1958. Funny story is that we opened up a dress shop together—so unique—and a little modeling agency, and both of us thought we were successful because the other one was so good. I look back now and I say, God, I was so dumb. I was so dumb, that when she got married, I closed up everything and just gave it away. I thought I couldn't do it by myself because I thought we were only any good because of her. She tells me now, Kerin, we were only good because of you. [So we both thought] the other one was carrying the ball. So prior to you guys getting married, you'd opened up this business— No, no, we are married and divorced by now. The husbands gone. Both stories not to be told because who cares? We're both alive and they're both dead, so what does that tell you? 8 But we bought this house on the beach in Santa Monica, on the cliff, next door to [actress] Gloria Swanson's getaway. Now I can't say we actually ever saw her but we did see the two guys that lived in the house. And her place had the domed top and so forth. But ours was a pretty little redwood house. And our fun story, in today's [market]—well, today s market isn't so much fun as it was like two years ago—we wait till there's a crowd of people when she comes to visit and I'll say, yeah, Marilyn, let's tell them how we dumped that piece of property in Santa Monica. We were so glad to dump that property in 1959, by gosh, we got twenty thousand dollars for that house. By God, we were really lucky we got rid of it. It's worth about like four million dollars [today]. [Laughing] Who'd of thunk it? What was Santa Monica like then? Well, it was lovely, and touristy. It's before it went downhill and now back uphill. But, at any rate, I was fortunate to meet this gal Dorothy, who's still a friend of mine, who was the head of L.A. [Los Angeles] County Parks and Recreation, Social and Cultural Department. And she knew I had been in the theatre arts department and that I had done some television, so she hooked me up with a job with the Parks Department where I taught children's theatre and some other group activities, senior citizens exercise, because I had done a lot of that. Oh yeah, I made the TV commercials for [Vic Tanny Centers]. I was working at Vic Tanny Gyms, too. So, I was teaching theatre arts and seniors exercise and other things at Plummer Park in West Hollywood. And then sometimes I'd fill in for this John Angelo with the Shakespeare Festival players. And I didn't have his kind of talent for the Shakespeare but I did help in the department from 9 time to time. He still comes to visit me. Dorothy, I just finished rereading her Christmas card before they re put all away. So we've stayed friends all these years, too. So I was doing all those different things and then Marilyn got married and went on, and so we got rid of the dress shop. It was doing very well, and the modeling. What we did was, it was on Santa Monica Boulevard and Lincoln, and it was an old house. I could sew and design and decorate, and she was an artist, and we fixed it up so cute. We had Capezios and muumuus and those kind of things. Along with that people would ask me, could I do a room in their house, and I said, well, yeah, I guess I could, and so it kind of was the beginning of my becoming an interior decorator. Yeah, obviously you had an eye for design. And she painted the walls with scenes and that was kind of the beginning of her becoming an artist. But we didn't know we were that. We thought we were selling clothes. Right. Now, can I ask you something, and maybe this is just my ignorance, but I'm wondering, your perspective on the late Fifties, two single women opening a business, was it easy for you guys to open a business? We didn't know it wasn't. We talk about it. I said, wasn't it funny, Marilyn, that we just did what we had to do? We thought it was fine and we just did it because we had to support our kids. It never occurred to us that we were being innovative, or that it was hard to do, or that everybody wasn't doing it. We never asked if anybody was doing it in Oklahoma or Phoenix. And it never occurred to us that it might be harder later. We were doing well and we thought everything we did next would be well, too. It took me thirty years before I realized, it's not always easy and you can't do everything well all the time. 10 But, I don t mean we were successful like Bill Gates [CEO of Microsoft], and I don't mean we were famous like [celebrity] Paris Hilton. But we did well and we supported our kids and we did it on our own, and we didn't know we couldn't. In other words, there's nothing we didn t even think about. We had to. So we just did. And it's different now, I think, even if you have to. I mean we got our business license in one day and stuff like that, and we painted it ourselves and we didn't have health codes coming in to see if the toilet flushed right. So it was a very different way of going about setting up businesses. Right. But anyhow, that went well. But I was afraid to continue it when she got married, so that we closed that, sold it for nothing, sold it for what we had into it. We didn't own the building, you understand, we rented the building. So, our stock and all that, we just broke even, divided it up, and off we went. And so did you have money amassed that you could put into the business? No, we started out with a few things, couple hundred here, couple hundred there. She was the in-store model for I. Magnin, so she walked around in clothes all day, and I worked at Plummer Park with the children's theatre. So we both had jobs, as well as the dress shop, and took turns. And then as a side thing, I started and developed the Los Angeles County Parks and Recreation Senior Citizen Art Festival. I think it may still be going on. I'm not sure. But I started it as a project, a fundraiser for the senior citizen group. So that made the newspaper. So there are a bunch of various newspaper clippings including my name and so forth. 11 So when we were out of the shop, this lady contacted me, Mrs. McDougal, that said there was a store in Riverside, California that was interested in hiring me to upgrade their store from a little old lady store to a young, vibrant, kind of youthful [shop]. So they hired me, G.K. Christensen's in Riverside, and off I go, my daughter, my cat, and myself. How old was your daughter at this time? She was nine by then. What's her name? Lesli Jouskey. The part I like the best about the John S. Park neighborhood of 2011 is that my daughter, Lesli, and I enjoy it more than we did 40 or so years ago. We used to take our bikes to Circle Park. Now we take Lesli's dog, Posset, to Circle Park. Of course, we can only go on the weekends, but I hope that'll change soon. Lesli came back to Las Vegas from Seattle after her husband, Rick, passed away a few years ago, and she lives here with me, her cat, Popcorn, and of course Posset. And it's a perfect neighborhood for walking the dog and saying hello to neighbors and watching the seasonal fireworks from the front yard. We can see them from the Stratosphere or from the country club. Lesli went to Crestwood Elementary, just down the hill, one neighborhood down, and John C. Fremont Junior High, one neighborhood over. And then she went to high school at Wasatch Academy in Utah. It's really wonderful for me having her back home with me here in my later years. We enjoy John S. Park neighborhood and our John S. Park home as much as we ever did together. We go to Riverside (event), and I did some innovative things, changed the whole store around, threw everybody into a frenzy. People work harder when they're in a frenzy, especially when there's somebody new and young. I put on some fashion shows. I 12 used the staircase. I got the city to let us use the big auditorium of the city and I ran a thing called Wham-O-Rama, and I got all the high schools from all the local outside-of- Riverside areas to play their different groups, and I got the kids to model the clothes kind of go-go style, and it made Women's Wear Daily and stuff. Oh, that sounds like it would've been a fantastic event. Yeah, it was really good. I was the star for a while there. Well, but G.K. Christensen's was closing down the store and they called Mrs. McDougal and said, you know, we love Kerin. They gave me a car—they gave me a little blue Mustang—and they hooked me up with The Broadway Department Store in Las Vegas, Nevada. So that's how you made it out to Las Vegas. And off I come to Las Vegas. Just last week, I'm over at the market, the World Market [Center], at a seminar with Roger Thomas, the designer for Steve Wynn, and after the seminar is a cocktail party and Madeline [Capelle], the opera singer friend, and I are there, and in front of me in line for our wine spritzer is Ed [Edward] Doumani, that owned La Concha [Motel] and the El Morocco [Motel], (You know they moved the La Concha down to the [Neon] Boneyard, the new Neon Museum.) And I said, Mr. Doumani, you wouldn't remember me, and I said, I've seen you a few times but too far across the room to say anything, but I'm the lady that came to the La Concha Hotel and never left. I was supposed to come for the weekend to do a seminar for The Broadway and I stayed. And he looked at me kind of [like], The Broadway, you stayed, da da da. I said, in 1966. Ohhh, says he. Well, his wife was obviously a wife that wasn't his wife at the time, because I said, it was way back then, and she said, oh, talk to him. It was like, she dismissed me posthaste. But nevertheless, I reminded him of [how] I came with my 13 daughter and my cat, to train the people. I was supposed to just come up and train people to train people. So the store you were working for in Riverside was closing and they hooked you up with [The Broadway]. First, before they sent me here, I was three months down on Mission Road at The Broadway corporate offices to train me The Broadway way. But I mean I didn't have to fill that part in. But basically they got me all geared up to come up here and get their store opened. So basically you weren't going to stay. You were just coming to do a temporary open, to do some training and seminars. Yeah, living at a motel, with my daughter and my cat. And how long were you supposed to be here for? A couple of weeks. And then three months later, it was time to put my daughter in school. I had to do something. The summer was over. Maybe two months because it was August. August, September. By September, it's time to put the kids in school. So, then I had to take a cut but I stayed as training director then, for The Broadway, and it really needed that. We didn't have enough people here that had any experience in department store [work]. They didn't even know how to use the cash registers, how to count change properly, which people still don't. They'll say, here's your change, twelve dollars and sixteen cents. You don't do that. You say, that was nine dollars, ten dollars, fifteen dollars, twenty dollars. You count up from wherever you left off. Well, they don't do that now but I would correct them if I had the time. 14 Anyhow, but there was a lot to learn because everything was in the computer and nobody knew how to use computerized registers. We still had the tapes that everything was on that had to be reviewed. So I taught classes eight hours a day, five days a week [for training people] until I just couldn't stand it. So I transferred to the interior design department. Now, just to fill in, meantime back in the shop in Santa Monica, I had become pretty proficient in draperies and things that I did. It wasn't what I was supposed to be doing but I did anyhow. So it was like fish to water for me to take over the [interior design department]. You'd already been doing it, unofficially. Yeah. And I'd been doing it all my life in different ways.