Transcript of interview with Patsy Rosenberry by Barbara Tabach, February 24, 2013

i AN INTERVIEW WITH PATSY HUFF ROSENBERRY An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2012 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach, Maggie Lopes, Stefani Evans Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Project Assistants: Barbara Tabach and Claytee D. White iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iv PREFACE In the early summer of 1972, Patsy and Chuck Rosenberry packed the car to begin their journey from Hattiesburg, Mississippi to Las Vegas. Patsy’s two teenage children (plus a friend) crowded into the back seat as Chuck eased behind the wheel. He and Patsy had just recently married and he was taking his new family to their new home in southern Nevada. Chuck was a nuclear technologist at the Nevada Test Site and a kind, patient man that Patsy would have followed anywhere. As it turned out, Las Vegas was a wonderful fit and the family would thrive in their new hometown of Las Vegas. The children attended Valley High School; the family eventually bought into a house in the Paradise Valley area; and from 1978 to 1999 Patsy enjoyed working with a growing cardiovascular group. Chuck censored his work-talk like most Test Site employees, but Patsy recalls with pride his concern for safety and how he always felt the public did not have correct information. She also remembers the fun of participating in the Tombstone Players, a group of Test Site employees, spouses and children who reenacted Wild West shootouts for the public; being comped on the Strip; and even the chance sighting of Elvis Presley at a local drugstore one day. Yes, it was an “interesting” place, as Patsy says. And though she and Chuck retired to Georgia, the state of her birth, Las Vegas is a place she remembers as home. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Patsy Rosenberry February 24, 2013 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface…………………………………………………………………………………………...iv Born (1939) and raised in Atlanta, Georgia; in 1972 married Chuck Rosenberry and moved to Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Talks about Chuck’s background: who passed away at the end of 2012; from Wyoming; joined Air Force and became interested in radiation safety and then specialized in nuclear sciences at a site in Hanford, Washington; came to Nevada Test Site in 1964; worked for REECo. She fills in the story of how they met and married……………………………. 1 – 5 Tells of brief courtship; lack of concern and knowledge about seriousness of his work; compares Hattiesburg understanding of nuclear testing to that in Las Vegas; Chuck did not talk much about his work. Describes coming to Las Vegas for the very first time; moving two children to Nevada and Chuck’s patience; laundry mat next to Crazy Horse bar; apartment on Flamingo……..6 – 10 Talks about working for Cardiovascular Consultants of Nevada, where she worked for 21 years starting in 1978; how the group grew. Move from apartment to house in Paradise Valley; later into a Henderson home; Chucks drive to Test Site on the “Widow’s Road” and his work schedule of 12 to 14 hour days; what he could/did or couldn’t share about his job at the time; his assurance that he was safe; being young, meeting other wives; formation of the Tombstone Players with other Test Site couples, kids participated, troupe traveled around………………………...11 – 15 Explains that Chuck’s parents moved to Las Vegas; his father worked at the MGM; Chuck’s love of his work and putting roots in Las Vegas; children attended Valley High School. Talks about Las Vegas of the 1970s; entertainment available; Ralph Lamb and recent TV series comparison; contrasts with life in Mississippi, retiring to the South. Describes having a background check as part of marrying a Test Site employee; Q clearance………………………………………16 – 20 Mentions how Chuck wished public was better informed about the Test Site’s history and nuclear storage today; his training in nuclear technology at Boise State and in the Air Force; describes the occasion of “blowouts” during underground tests. Recalls family life, knowing people in gaming, being comped; how they lived near celebrities such as Liberace and Redd Foxx; how people dressed in the 1970s on the Strip……………………………………….21 – 25 Recalls seeing Broadway shows at Union Plaza. Reflects on changes during her 30-plus years of living here; seeing Elvis at the drugstore; hotels of the early era; adapting to new life style as a parent of teens; attending Rebel basketball games during Tarkanian era; National Finals Rodeo. vi Talks about life in the South; deciding to retire; Chuck’s health issues (unrelated to Test Site); the change from above-ground to below-ground testing at Test Site; Chuck’s assessment of the information in the 2012 book Area 51 by Annie Jacobsen; keeping in touch with fellow retirees; pride of having Wernher von Braun’s hardhat.…………………………………………….26 – 37 Talks about her observations of racism, both in the south and in Las Vegas starting in the late 1960s-early 1970s; black co-worker at Test Site; his training of co-workers and more about his day to day job……………………………………………………………………………….38 – 42 1 This is Barbara Tabach. Today is February 24th, 2013. I'm sitting in the home of Michelle Montgomery with her mother, Pat. I'm going to start out by having you state your full name and spell your last name for the record for us, okay? It's Patsy Rosenberry, R-O-S-E-N-B-E-R-R-Y. And Patsy is P-A-T-S-Y? Uh-huh. Okay. Let's just start with a little biographical information about you: Date of birth? Where you were born? I want to get all the secrets, okay? Okay. I was born in Atlanta. Birth date, 10/3/39. I met Chuck in 1971 and we got married in 1972 in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. And your parents were they from the Atlanta area? Yes…I went to school there. What were your parents’ occupations? My mother worked for Kraft Foods and my dad did several different things, but mostly played golf. [Laughing] But they lived in Atlanta all their lives. Did you have siblings? I have two sisters and a brother. I guess the natural question is how did you get from Atlanta to Hattiesburg? The first time I married; I married a man from Mississippi and that's how I got to Hattiesburg. Ah, okay, marriage took you there. And then you had children? I have two children, Michelle and Michael, a couple of grandchildren—two granddaughters. A small family. 2 And what was it like to grow up in the South at that time? Oh, at that time Atlanta was a beautiful city. I remember working downtown Atlanta and how beautiful it was with the dogwood trees, blossoming on the streets and that type thing. It's changed a great deal since then. It was more like a small town in some ways, different sections, but now much, much too big a city. As you grew up what kind of career or work path did you follow? I kind of followed the medical field. I started out just doing insurance and billing; that type thing. Then I got into a little more patient care, but chose to go back to the medical insurance/billing-type thing. So I did that probably for about forty-five years. Oh, wow. That's a long time to do one thing. So Chuck is your husband. Right. Charles E. Rosenberry. I'm sorry, he passed away in December of this past year. That's, I know, hard for you. So anytime if you think we need to pause, that's perfectly understandable. I'm okay. I have nothing but really good memories. Well, hopefully this will be a good way to share those, too. Tell me a little bit about him. When was he born? Where was he born? He was born in Meeteetse, Wyoming, November the tenth, 1934. Spent most of his life growing up in the West. His father was a rodeo rider; he was a saddle bronc rider. So he was brought up in that world. Then he went on to join the Air Force and that's where he got interested in the radiation safety. He was in the Air Force for four years. When he came out he had begun to specialize in the nuclear field and he went to work at Hanford, which they're still doing projects there now. 3 Where is Hanford? Tell me a little bit about that. Hanford, Washington; it's a nuclear site. I was just reading something about it in the paper yesterday, I think, about possible things that are going on there still. Then in 1964 he came down to Las Vegas and was interviewed for the Nevada Test Site. And in February of 1964 he came to work for the Nevada Test Site and he was there for thirty-one years. Wow. So 1964. And then you married when? Nineteen seventy-two. So he was already in Las Vegas. Correct. And you're in? Hattiesburg, Mississippi. That's a long ways apart. Yes, it is. How did you two get together? At that time the Russians were shooting off nuclear weapons under a salt dome and the Nevada Test Site was looking for something similar and they found one in a little town outside of Hattiesburg. So he brought his crew down and proceeded to do some testing, which sometimes turned out to be a little comical and interesting. He had a twenty-four hour shooting and fishing license because what he would do is he would go in and get some of the animals and try to test the vital organs for radiation uptake and that type thing. So he would go out and hunt and then bring the animal in and send all their major organs back to the Nevada Test Site for review. It was really ironic that sometimes they would announce they were having a shot—and as 4 in anything, sometimes everything don't go the way it should—and so the days they announced that they were having the shot, even though the shot didn't go off, you would get calls from people in that area saying, oh, my hens aren't laying or the cow's not giving milk or I have windows that have gotten broken from the blast and that type thing. So that was pretty comical. But it was interesting work. I think they were there a little over a year testing those shots under the salt dome. So these were wild animals, then, that they were testing. So it wasn't like any domestic animals. No. It's all like hunters, mostly deer and that type thing. Of course, he was a big hunter anyway, so that was no big deal. He was in heaven being able to have a twenty-four hour fishing and hunting license. Do you remember when you first met him? I do. At that time I was working at a medical office in the daytime and supplementing my income by working as a waitress at night. All the guys would come into this one particular restaurant in Hattiesburg. That's where I got to meet him. What kind of restaurant was it? It was like a Mexican restaurant, but it was one that had been there for many, many years. It was called Faughn's. Jimmy Faughn owned that restaurant and he had his own salad dressing thing going on, a big, popular restaurant for that area in Hattiesburg. How do you spell Faughn? F-A-U-G-H-N. Did you have to wear a special outfit as a waitress? Yeah, we did have uniforms, I guess. They were really tacky. That was in the polyester age. 5 But eventually we got to talking and he asked me out. It was interesting. It was a very fast relationship. So you were waiting on his table and then he picked you up, huh? Kind of. Actually, one night we were having like a birthday party for a friend or something and he came to the party and I asked him to dance. And from that day on that was it; it was Pat and Chuck from then on, for the next forty-one years. Did he tell you right up front what kind of work he was in? Yeah. It was really ironic because I never thought about him being the boss. At that time he worked for REECo, which is Reynolds Electrical and Engineering. And there was a guy that worked with him called Pappy Reynolds and everybody just assumed that Pappy Reynolds was the boss. I had no idea that Chuck was. He kept a very low profile. Then I found out, oh, you're running this whole thing, huh? Unfortunately, when I met him we only had a couple of months before he was taking all the time back to the Nevada Test Site. That was an interesting thing, too, because they loaded everything up and took a train from Hattiesburg all the way across the United States back to the Test Site to bring all the equipment and that type thing back. So they got to see a lot of the country. I think he spent five or six days on that train. How did he keep in touch with you? At that time we didn't have cell phones. So he would stop and make calls at different places. He got a really big kick one time; he said they pulled into Memphis and all the people that worked for the train station said, oh, we'll get you guys out of here right away; we don't want all that nuclear stuff hanging around our area. So they would get them in and out as fast as they could. He had some really neat stories going on there. 6 I cannot remember his name, but they had a general that rode with them. I'm sorry I can't remember his name. I'll have to look that up for you. It was kind of a famous general that made the trip with them. They ate on the train. They had a cooking car and sleeping car. Unfortunately, I had called him right before they took out on the train and he ran back to take my call and when he did he sprained his ankle. So he spent the entire trip remembering me with this huge ankle that was kind of painful. He didn't forget me on the trip, I'm sure. I'm sure he didn't. So the time between meeting him and him leaving was how long did you say? Probably from December and then he pulled out in March. So a very short period of time. Yeah. And then he came back and we got married on April fifteenth. Wow. Yeah. I told you it was very fast. When you know something you know it. But there was never a doubt in my mind that he was the one and never a doubt in his mind. So what kinds of characteristics did you admire about him right away? Very quiet, soft-spoken, strong, the kind of man that no matter what situation you were in he would always be there to take care of you; you wouldn't have to worry. I had never had that or seen that in a man that I felt that secure with. He had never had children; I had two—ten and twelve. Talk about a challenge for a man that never had children. He was wonderful. Gave them the secure feeling that they needed at the time, all the love, taught them to respect, super father, super. In his work were you ever worried at that point in time about the nature of his work, 7 working around nuclear research? Not at that time because I was so ignorant of the facts. I had to become educated with what he was actually doing after we got married. He didn't explain a lot, which most of them don't; this is what I do and no details. But after being married for a while I began to see that. But the fact that he was in radiation safety he always said it was the safest thing in the world. They were tested every year or whatever. If there was a spill, he was the one that was going to know about it. So he always felt safe in that field; he really did. You have, then, the unique experience of having the awareness of nuclear testing going on in one part of the country and then another part of the country. In Hattiesburg, the community, were they very aware or what? Very uninformed. They were very reluctant to all this going on and not very acceptable. But it's because of—not stupidity, but ignorance of what was being done and how it was being handled. I think if the public had been more educated in this field, it would have had a different reaction. I think that was the biggest thing that he always stressed, too, was that the public is just not informed enough about nuclear energy or nuclear anything, nuclear testing and that type thing. But were you aware of the fear of Russia, the Cold War brewing and all of that? Do you recall that being part of the conversation? No. That's not the type things he discussed. There were very few things that he discussed unless it was something that was publicly put out in the newspaper, TV programs, whatever. Yeah, he was pretty closed mouth about what he did on a day-to-day basis. We hear that a lot in general about that line of work, which makes it interesting for the people that are involved in their personal life because that sense of privacy about work and 8 all. When you moved here—so that was the spring of '72? Actually, the summer. We moved after the kids got out of school; we came in June. Had you ever visited Las Vegas? Never. I flew out in June and then we drove back (to Hattiesburg) and got the children. Like I said, we got married in Hattiesburg April 15th and then he had to go back to work. So we communicated back and forth and then decided it would be best to wait till June when the kids were out of school so we could move. And that was an interesting trip, too. I'll bet. Well, let's back up. So tell me about your wedding day. What was that like? It was a very small wedding. We had a small wedding at the Presbyterian church, mostly coworkers where I worked and a few of his friends. He had a Cajun buddy named Cal that was his best man who was also with him in the Air Force in Spain. He was a Cajun? Yeah, a Cajun from New Orleans, with a Cajun accent big time. So it was interesting: he was in Spain with Chuck in the late fifties and early sixties and then once Chuck found he was coming to Hattiesburg or Mississippi, then he would stay in New Orleans with him for a few days and then come on up. So they were tickled to find each other again. They turned out to be really good friends. As a matter of fact, Cal eventually came to work for the Nevada Test Site. Oh, really? And what's Cal's last name, then? Do you remember? I didn't think I'd ever forget Cal's name. I'll fill that in later. Isn't that crazy? No, that's not crazy. It happens. It just went, just went. But we had our wedding. Then we just went down to Gulfport, Mississippi for a couple 9 of days for a honeymoon. The best man and his wife showed up on our honeymoon, so we spent our honeymoon with them. I'm surprised we didn't take the children, to be honest; he would have. But then after that he had to go back to work. Then we planned on the trip this June. So that's how we got together. So you flew with Mike and Michelle? No. Actually, I flew by myself and we drove back and got the children and whatever household goods and stuff that we took. But then Michelle chose to bring one of her girlfriends with them and they convinced Mike at that time that he would be more comfortable on the floorboard of the car, so they could put their feet on him. Of course, traveling with three teenagers at that time with a man that never had children; it was always how soon can we stop and get a hotel with a pool? And then the next morning the girls never wanted to get up. So Chuck was very patient. Then one morning he decided he would just put water on their heads and see if they couldn't get up faster. Well, he learned right away you can't do that because then you have to wait for them to do their hair. Very patient man. It was an interesting trip. I won't ever forget that. So what kind of highway system was there in the 1970? Not a whole lot of four lanes. I thought we'd never get through the state of Texas; I'm sure he did, too. It took us about three days, three and a half days. Well, that's not as bad as I thought it might have been. It wasn't that bad. The car had air conditioning, I hope. Yes, thank God. God forbid had it not. It was an interesting trip. What did you imagine that life was going to be like in Las Vegas? 10 I really didn't know that much about Las Vegas when I moved there. It was an eye-opener for sure. Of course, in 1972 it was still kind of like the ‘old Vegas’. It was interesting. My first experience was going to the laundry mat that happened to be next door to the—oh, what is it?—the Crazy Horse saloon or something, Crazy Horse bar. That was kind of interesting. You mean like the gentlemen's club type thing? Uh-huh. When we first moved in we moved in an apartment over off Flamingo Road. Flamingo and what? Paradise, Eastern, between Paradise and Eastern. There were apartments there. I remember being astonished that there were slot machines in the laundry mat. As a matter of fact, I got so excited one day with that that I ran home with this bag of quarters and had no idea how many I had. And he said, oh, great, did you remember to get the laundry? That was ironic because I had forgotten the laundry and left it in the dryer. I did get back and get it in time. So it was an interesting world for me; that's for sure. But we learned to love Las Vegas. I got a fairly decent job with a medical group and ended up staying with the cardiologists for like twenty-one years. So just to fill in a couple of details if you remember, do you remember the name of the apartments that you lived in? No, I don't. Or the doctor's office? The group of doctors I worked for was Cardiovascular Consultants of Nevada. As a matter of fact, I just had lunch with two of the doctors day before yesterday. Oh, how wonderful was that? Yeah, that was really neat. I was one of the original three employees that we had when we first started. There were two doctors and three employees when I started with them and when I left 11 there were probably eighteen doctors and a hundred and fifty employees and about five or six offices. So it grew quite a bit while I was there. So you were there from 1972—I mean did you go to work pretty quickly? Actually, I didn't start with them until '78. I was there from '78 to '99. So you get to Vegas. You live in an apartment for a while. Yeah, three months. Where did you move after that? We moved out—it's like the Paradise Valley area. We were living off Corral Circle and we were between Eastern and—I'm forgetting the names of these roads. I have to fill you in on those roads. We were between Eastern and Paradise—no, not Paradise. We were further down. I can't exactly remember. Was it a housing development? Uh-huh, just a little neighborhood. We bought this little home in 1972, in October, a little three-bedroom house. That was our first house. We lived there for like seventeen years and then bought a house out in Henderson and lived there for seventeen years. His work, where did he physically have to go to work? To the Nevada Test Site. He made that drive practically every day. I mean he went out of town a lot. But the routine was to catch the bus at five-thirty, a quarter to six in the morning. He'd catch the bus home. So he had twelve-, fourteen-hour days every day. And I only worked eight. Then they car pooled some, so you could leave a little bit later and get home a little bit earlier. That highway was noted as the Widow's Road. Because? They traveled it so much and so many guys did have accidents on that road. 12 Because they were tired when they were driving, I'm sure. Yeah. So if he caught the bus, where would he catch that at? Usually on the north side of town. He would drive over and leave his car parked. They had areas that they could park in. I think it was like the northwest section of town, yeah. They had a lot of people that car pooled and parked in certain areas and the bus picked you up in certain areas. It was quite a trip; it really was when you think about doing that five days a week for thirty years. That's a long time, isn't it? A lot of miles, a lot of miles. Then once you get to the test site, most of the time he went another forty or fifty miles out to different areas like (Area) 51 and whatever. Did you ever drive that stretch with him? Did he ever say let me show you where I work? Well, we went to Salt Lake City a lot or Tonopah, Goldfield, that area. Yeah; so I saw that part of it, but you're not allowed on the Test Site. So I knew what the ride was like, yes. I can't even imagine doing it every day. A lot of guys did. What did he tell you about his work? What was he able to share? Did he tell you I can't say anything? There were some things that we didn't even discuss. He enjoyed working with the astronauts before they walked on the moon. Oh, tell me about that. There's so many craters and that type thing on the Test Site. The guys that were trained to go on the moon had these little go-carts or whatever and they would kind of try to get the feel of it. So 13 he worked with them to make sure the craters were clear and that type thing; he enjoyed that a lot. And he was able to share that with you when it was happening? Yes, he could share; I mean no details, but yes, he did share that part with me. Then there were a couple of times when they would shoot off the missiles—or not even the missiles, but the space shots. If plutonium was on that shot, then he would have to be there. One time I know I flew down Florida to be with him and got out on the beach just in time to see the shot go off. Then I got a phone call from him saying I might not be able to get back there, so if I don't I will call you. They were anticipating a problem in which case they were going to have to bring it down and put it in California. But at that time I didn't know anything except that there was a possibility he would not be there that night. So those are the kinds of things you lived with. Like, great, I'm going to get to fly all the way home by myself from Florida to Nevada. What was that like: knowing that you couldn't ask much more? It really didn't bother me that much. I mean that was part of what he was when I met him and I never questioned it. He assured me that what he was doing he felt safe in. He also said if there's something coming up and I can't tell you where I'm going, just don't worry about it; I'll get in touch you as soon as I can. A little apprehension at first, but then you kind of accept it. So you settle into a routine with that. Yes, you do. I know if I don't hear from him in a certain length of time, he'll call me when he can. I was very young then [laughing], so I wasn't near as nervous about what he was doing, I guess, as I would be today—which I find that interesting, too. Well, explain that. Tell me more. Ignorance is bliss type thing. It was such a new world for me, too, learning what was going on. 14 I met a lot of the guys he worked with, a lot of their wives. Nobody seemed to be that apprehensive. There's always somebody in the crowd that's going to be. Tell me a little bit about meeting the other wives and families. Basically we did it more on a—a bunch of the guys at the Test Site had gotten together and put together this group called the Tombstone Players and Chuck participated in that. That's where they did these gunfights for the public and shootouts at O. K. Corral; that type thing. So that's how I really got into that and met a lot of the guys and their wives and that type thing because we did that for probably about three or four years. We'd go to Goldfield and Manhattan, Tonopah, all these little ghost towns and do those type things. Then we would go sometimes to California, Arizona. We did a lot of shows downtown on Fremont Street in Las Vegas. So that was kind of fun. That's where you really get to know the cast members and their families and that type thing and all of them worked at the Test Site. I was just going to ask. So all of them were from— All of them were Test Site workers, yes. Who created the Tombstone Players? Do you know who started that? A guy named Bill Beam. We just lost him this year, too. I don't remember what his title was; I could find that out, though. But he and Chuck used to go out. He'd call Chuck and say come on out; we need to get rid of some these blasting things. So they had a lot of explosive-type devices they needed to get rid of. So they would go out in the middle of the desert at the Test Site and shoot them all off. Really? Yeah, they did. Bill put the group together. It was a lot of fun; it really was. Like I said, everybody there worked at the Test Site, but some of the wives were partners in it, too. 15 About how many people participated? Probably between sixteen and twenty depending on what we were doing, where we were doing it and that type thing. And you gave free shows? Free shows, yeah. I dressed up like a saloon hussy. So it was fun, really fun. We had a couple of incidents. I remember we had a gentleman. His name is—I hate that. I can put that name in later. Anyway, he was Doc Holliday. He looked and acted like Doc Holliday. Of course, he had a double-barrel shotgun. We were all standing on [Fremont Street] and he shot off his shotgun. Of course, it's not loaded, but it has black powder in it. All the women are looking down and their legs have little measles-looking things all over their legs where they're bleeding. So there is damage with just black powder. But that was interesting and fun. That way you got to see the old Las Vegas downtown. Fremont Street where we did a lot mostly, not on the Strip, but mostly Fremont Street in the downtown section of Vegas. So you'd do it on Fremont Street on the street or in one of those— Just spontaneously you'd set up? No. It was usually during certain celebrations. Like the [Helldorado] parade? I don't know what they call it now…But we would go up to Tonopah on Jim Butler Days, which was a famous thing that they did. There would be big crowds that went up there. I can remember we really had some good times up there; we did. Now, did the kids ever participate in this, too? Oh, yes, they did; Michelle and Mike both did, yeah. Short periods of time. What did they do? 16 Michelle was a hussy, a saloon hussy, and Mike was like a bar kid to run off and get things for the bar and that type thing. Even Chuck's dad participated as a bartender for a couple of times. So had his dad moved out to Las Vegas, too? Yeah, they moved to Las Vegas right after Chuck did. So his mom and dad lived in Vegas. Were they retired? Yeah. Actually, Chuck's dad worked on the old MGM that caught fire. He worked on that as an operating engineer. The older guys always got the plush jobs. So he worked there about two, maybe three years and loved every minute of it. He was in his seventies at the time. He passed away at age seventy-five and his mom passed away at ninety-four, both in Las Vegas. So that was kind of interesting. Did he ever say that he wished he could move someplace else or do something else other than what he was doing? No. He loved his work. You're talking about Chuck? Yes. No. He loved his work. He really, really loved his work. If he had moved other places, he probably would have done much better as far as positions and that type thing. But he loved what he did. What do you mean? He could have progressed and done more, became higher in the company and that type thing. But he chose to stay where he was. I think a lot of that had to do with his dad being in construction for so many years and they moved a lot back in the forties and fifties. He liked that stability. Plus, like I said, he enjoyed everything he did; he really did. He looked forward to going to work every day. I never heard him say I just can't stand to go back to work again. He 17 loved it. But he was out in the field; he did all the fieldwork. Anytime they had a shot he had to be there. I can remember a couple of stories he told about sitting in the pickup and you could see when the shot went off the ground starts moving. It would even move the pick-up you're sitting in. That's about all the details I ever got. Really? So he actuall