Transcript of interview with Ernie Hensley by Lisa Gioia-Acres, Janurary 25, 2008

HHS An Interview with Ernie Hensley An Oral History Conducted by Lisa Gioia - Acres January 25, 2008 Interview All That Jazz Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©All That Jazz Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2008 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach, Melissa Robinson Transcribers: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Project Assistants: Lisa Gioia-Acres and Claytee D. White 11 The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Harold L. Boyer Charitable Foundation. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the All That Jazz Oral History Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada Las Vegas iii Table of Contents Interview with Ernie Hensley January 25th, 2008 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Lisa Gioia - Acres Preface...........................................................................................v Ernie Hensley; bom in Washington D.C. March 14th 1940; attended historically black high school Armstrong High School in D.C.; father Ernest W. Hensley Jr. mother Gladys Barbara Hensley both government workers father worked Department of Defense, mother National Labor Relations Board; mother and father both attended Armstrong High School; mother was the drum major and excellent pianist; at age 7 started playing the saxophone; took lessons at Modem School of Music; moved on to clarinet then the flute; transferred to McKinley High School in 1954 during Brown v. Board of Education; mention of his experience in a new segregated environment; first experience seeing the Air Force Band; passed the audition for the Air Force Band; 1957 at 17 joined the Air Force, stationed with the 511th Air Force Band in Edwards Air Force Band, California; 1959 transferred to France to play saxophone in the Air Force Band; only black band member; moved to Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany; 1959 met other black musicians in the Air Force; mention of jazz kellar............................................1 - 7 Johnny’s Kellar; playing in different kellars in Kaiserslautern, Munich, Heidelberg, Saarbrucken; 17th Air Force Band; Nick Azzolino and the Bandsman School in Washington, D.C.; graduated in the top 5% of his class at the Bandsman School and promoted to staff sergeant; Ceremonial Band; auditioned for the Airmen of note; became director of the Airmen of Note for three years and then retired; wife Carolyn and two children; retired from the Air Force in 1979; came to Vegas in 1979 at age 39; Serenade In Blue; becoming friends with Sarah Vaughan and Joe Williams; Johnny Haig worked for him 3 nights a week making twice what he made in the Air Force; worked with Jimmy Mulidore’s group at the Hilton for 10 years; joined the union; Jim Fuller was on the board of the musicians union; worked until 1995; worked with Andy Williams, Sammy Davis Jr, Somers, Juliet Prowse, Steve and Eydie, and Sarah Vaughan; Constitution Hall..........................................................................................8-17 Daughters of the American Revolution; Marian Anderson; black musicians - Rudy Aikels, Pat Sherrod, Joe Williams; Bob Bailey; Vince Summer, Don Grossi, Dave Napier; Nevada Resort Association; Don Rickies Show; attended UNLV after the union strike and received a degree in criminal justice; worked as a parole officer for Nevada State and then federal office of investigations; wife Carolyn obtained a degree at UNLV and taught English at UNLV; son and daughter graduated from Clark High School in Las Vegas; Johnny Carson Show....18 - 26 Index.........................................................................27-28 Appendix (photos) IV 29 - 32 Preface Ernie Hensley, an accomplished African American musician, was bom in Washington D.C. on March 14th 1940, the son of Ernest W. Hensley Jr. and Gladys Barbara Hensley. Both of his parents worked for the federal government in the nation’s capital. Ernest W. Hensley Jr., was an employee at the Department of Defense and Gladys Barbara Hensley mother, who was an excellent pianist and drum major, ultimately set her musical career aside to provide for her family and worked for the National Labor Relations board. At the age of seven, after finding a saxophone in his grandmother’s attic, Ernie embarked on his musical journey. He took lessons at the Modem School of Music in Washington D.C. Eventually acquired proficiency with the clarinet and the flute through long hours of practice. Ernie attended a historically black school, Armstrong High School in D.C., until he was transferred to integrated McKinley High School in 1954 following the Brown v. Board of Education ruling. Ernie recalls his experience in a new desegregated environment. After High School in 1957, Ernie joined the Air Force as a member of the 511th Air Force Band. In 1959 he resettled in France to play saxophone for the Air Force Band. Ernie ultimately made a career in the Air Force. He had countless experiences of performing around Europe and in Washington D.C. at places like Constitution Hall. A dream came true when Ernie was honored to become a member of the “Airmen of Note,” the premier jazz ensemble for the United States Air Force. He retired from the Air Force in 1979. Because of his distinguished career in the United States Air Force, Ernie had a number of opportunities once he retired from the military. He moved to Las Vegas in 1979 at age 39 and after living in area for just a few weeks, Ernie started working with Johnny Haig 3 nights a week. Shortly thereafter, Ernie found a long-term home working with Jimmy Mulidore’s group at the Hilton for nearly a decade until 1995. Throughout Ernie’s lifetime he has been fortunate to work with notable musicians such as Andy Williams, Sammy Davis Jr., Somers, Juliet Prowse, Steve an Eydie and his good friend Sarah Vaughn. Ernie, along with his wife Carolyn, a retired UNLV faculty member, still resides in Las Vegas. v ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV All That Jazz Oral History Project Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: Use Agreement #//1svi. Ht'//$}_£ y 1 j ^ ^ (ell A ' S We, tlie above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded intervicw(s) initiated on_____________________as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall he determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude die right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Date Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 This is Lisa Gioia-Acres. Today is January 25th, 2008. I'm here with Ernie Hensley for the "All That Jazz" oral history project conducting an oral history interview on Ernie. Hi, Ernie. How are you today? I'm pretty good. How are you doing? Very good. Thank you so much. Ernie, would you spell your last name for me? H-e-n-s-l-e-y. My first name is Ernest, E-r-n-e-s-t. Perfect. Well, we're going to talk about your experience here in Las Vegas as a musician. But prior to doing that, would you give me a small biography of your early life? Talk about mom and dad, where you came from, brothers and sisters. I was bom in Washington, D.C., on March 14th, 1940. My mother and father were native Washingtonians. They were government workers. I attended Armstrong High School, which during that time Washington was still segregated. St> we had segregated schools. And what was the name of the high school? Armstrong High School. It was a historically black high school. Then in 1955 -- '55? — that's when Brown v. Education struck down Jim Crow and segregation. Talk a little bit about your elementary school experience in Washington, D.C. And what are mom and dad's names, by the way? My father's name is Ernest W. Hensley, Junior. And my mother's name is Gladys Barbara Hensley. Her maiden name was Harley, H-a-r-l-e-y. Are you an only child or did you have — No. I have a sister, Barbara Hogan. She currently lives in Sparks, Nevada. Actually, she moved from Washington to L.A. then to — what's the name of that — Redding, California, then Sparks. She and her husband are retired in Sparks. But I went to elementary school, John F. Cook Elementary School. What was life like in Washington, D.C., as a young black child? Well, you know, I had no recognition that I was a young black child. I was just a young child in my family. And my family never talked about the segregation or the situation in Washington. It was a thing that they dealt with and tried to — I don't think — they didn't consciously shelter me from it. But I wasn't 1 really cognizant of it until I transferred high schools. Then I realized what was going on, you know, because I was perfectly fine at Armstrong High School. They had a band, a big band, marching band. My mother used to go to Armstrong High School, as my father did. And my mother was the drum major of Armstrong High School. So you come from a musical family. Yeah. Well, she was a great pianist, excellent pianist. Did she work professionally? No. Because during that time — she was a black woman — families frowned on women going on the road and doing that kind of stuff. She did have a shot to be a pianist with the old group called the Ink Spots. But her mother wouldn't let her go on the road. She was 18 then when she got that chance. But grandma wouldn't let her. Was her family musical? My uncle played saxophone. And that's where I started playing saxophone. My grandmother was cleaning out the attic one day when I was a little kid. I was about seven years old I guess. And she pulled out — some of the stuff from the attic was this old instrument, saxophone. So I picked it up and started fooling with it. And I knew both my grandparents on both sides of my family. So my grandparents on my father's side took the horn and got it repaired, completely redone, and started me with saxophone lessons in Washington out of a place called the Modem School of Music, which again was — director was Arthur E. Smith, who would you say was a schoolmate of my mother's. And he was in the Armstrong High School band, also. So Arthur got me started with the saxophone. I studied saxophone there for quite a few years. And then he advised me to take up the clarinet because if I wanted to work I would have to double, you know. So I took up the clarinet. And then from there to the flute, you know. But my high school days at Armstrong, they were good. It was a good time. But when segregation was struck down, I transferred to a school called McKinley High School. And McKinley was like another world. I just couldn't believe the difference because I was perfectly satisfied at Armstrong. You know, you walk out the door and you were on the street. At McKinley you walk out the door and you're on the campus, you know. They had a separate sports facility complex. They had their own football field, a racetrack, a swimming pool, Olympic-size swimming pool and parking lots in the back 2 for students with their cars. I didn't know students had cars then. So the first year — let's see. It was '54 that Brown v. Education was passed. I spent '54 at Armstrong High School. Then in '55 I went up to McKinley. But in '54 McKinley was a hotbed of white resistance. I remember it well. The white students were lined up on one side of the street. And the fashion then was white T-shirts with a pack of Lucky Strike cigarettes rolled up in the sleeves with the duckbill haircuts and the penny loafers and jeans. Yeah. And there were on one side. And, you know, the truth is that they were — they had weapons. They were ready to really do some serious violence there. But things cooled out after the first week. But it was like, well, we have to do this, so we'll do it. But I had no white friends at that school. When I graduated there was no prom because the teachers didn't want black and white students mixing on a social basis like that. So we didn't have a prom. But the interesting thing is that an old friend of mine, Joyce Ricks, we grew up together as little kids. We graduated from McKinley at the same time. And because of the history associated with McKinley in the civil rights vain, Joyce became the - well, president of the McKinley High School reunion committee for the students of 1957. Now, is Joyce a black woman? Yeah, Joyce is black, of course. And this committee was made up of all former black students at McKinley. And they've had a reunion every two years since then. I've never attended one. But I talk to her and she calls me often. And she comes here and we sit and talk. And I asked her, I said, you know, during these reunions did any white students show up? And she said, you know, it was the strangest thing. She said the first four or five - first eight years none showed up. Then they started showing up, former white students. And then all of a sudden they had a lot of white students showing up. And then former teachers started showing up. And the principal of McKinley High School, Dr. Bish, I'll never forget him. He was between a rock and a hard place. He did not want McKinley integrated. I mean that was — it was very obvious. But Joyce said he even showed up at one of the reunions just before he passed away. And they honored him, you know, as the principal at McKinley, and honored all the teachers. It wasn't a bad time for black students at McKinley. It was a good time because the facilities were so much better. We had so many more tools to work with. How about the education that you got at McKinley? 3 Well, the education was fine. But was it superior or was it equal to what you might have gotten at — I would think it was superior, yeah. Because at Armstrong I was making As and Bs. When I went to McKinley, I was making Bs and Cs. And the assistant principal was a black man. His name is Dr. Jewel. And I interviewed with him when I transferred there in '57. He told me pointblank, he said, Ernie, you're coming from Armstrong High School. He said you're an A student at Armstrong, which means you will probably be a C student here. That's how different the academic program was, you know. Did you feel challenged when you went to McKinley? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know. I was never — I told Joyce I don't go to reunions because I never thought that I was that involved in the school. I was just there. I did my work. The thing that I enjoyed most was the band. And as soon as I graduated I got out of town in a big hurry. I mean I could not wait to get out of Washington, D.C. And maybe that's a sign that maybe things weren't as great as I thought they were — would like to think that they were, you know. But after high school the one thing they wanted to do - when I was at McKinley is when I first realized what I wanted to do. And that's when the Air Force Band did a concert at McKinley High School. And this is the Air Force Band from Bolling Air Force Base in Washington, D.C., the Air Force Band. Every branch of the military has its special band in Washington. And the Air Force Band, you know, represents the Air Force, of course, like the Thunderbirds represent the Air Force. I saw that band and I said that's what I want to do. So as soon as I graduated, I went down and took an audition at Bolling Air Force Base. And at that time I didn't know that there were only two black musicians in the entire Air Force band career field worldwide when I went in. I had no idea. All I knew is I wanted to be in that Air Force band and that was that. You know, I didn't think about color or ethnicity or anything. It's just what I wanted to do. What happened when you auditioned? Well, I passed the audition. And it was funny because I was never a scale person, you know. I struggled with scales and stuff. And I played mainly by ear. I could read but not sit down and just tell you what a D-flat or a C-sharp scale was or a C-sharp minor scale. I couldn't do that. But I could play it. But anyway, I passed the audition, which surprised me. And I got started. Went to basic training 4 in San Antonio, Texas. Finished that. And then was stationed with the 511th Air Force Band in Edwards Air Force Band, California. And there Mr. Uhland was the warrant officer in charge of the band. It was a small band. So maybe 15 of us there. But I was the only black musician there. But all the musicians, they were very good musicians and we got along fine. I learned a lot in the Air Force. Did you have to join the Air Force? Yeah. I was actually in the Air Force. So did you go through boot camp and -- Yeah. Basic training they call it in San Antonio, Texas. And, plus, there's a little story there, too, because they have what they call a band flight in basic training for musicians, guys who are going into the Air Force band career field. So they have a band flight, which is basic training. But you continue to play your instruments in a musical setting, bands and that kind of thing. Well, I found out about it, but they wouldn't let me in there. So I spent 15 weeks in San Antonio. And the only time I touched my instrument is when I had a chance to go to the Airmen's Club and check out an instrument there and play. They call them TIs, the drill instructor ~ wouldn't let me transfer over there. What year did you enter the Air Force? 1957. So I spent 15 weeks without being involved in music. And what was the reason for that? Well, the drill instructors then, they were supreme. I mean, you know, you were at their mercy. And my opinion is -- here I am a black man, black boy, young man rather. I was only 17 years old and fairly intelligent and I had these skills. And the drill instructor was from Texas, bom and raised in Texas, with the Texas drawl and the Texas look and the Texas attitude. And he just told me flat out, he said, boy, you're not going over there. He said you're going to stay right here and I'm going to work your so-and-so off. So he tried to get me to shine his shoes and all that crap. But I refused to do that. I told him, you know, you can take your shoes and shove them. So you had an attitude. You had confidence back then to stand up for yourself. Yeah. I learned that from my grandfather and my grandmother. My grandmother is the one on my father's side that really told me that — excuse me. It's okay. Instilled in me the confidence to go on. 5 So I spent two years in California, '57 to '59. And I was halfway through my enlistment. I only had two years to go. So an assignment came up in Germany — well, in France really. There was a vacancy in France for a saxophone player. And I was due up, but I only had two years to go. But it was a three-year assignment. So they asked me if I wanted to extend to go to Europe. So I said sure. Sol extended. Went to Europe. Spent I think it was about seven months in a place called Evreux-Fauville Air Force Base in France just north of Paris. And there again — throughout my career I was the only black person in the band. There were not that many black musicians in the Air Force career field. Well, can I ask you a question, then, Ernie? What was that experience like for you? Can you describe what that was like to be one of the only or the only black person in that whole environment? Well, you know, I think when I look back with the attitude that I had then it was not that I was black. I was just another guy, another musician. Right. But society wasn't allowing — Society wouldn't allow it. Right. Now, that didn't really hit my consciousness until the civil rights movement began. And that's when everything came together, you know. This is why this happened and this is why that happened, you know. And this is why such-and-such said so-and-so. Blah, blah, blah. So during those early years in the Air Force, you know, I was just going along with the program. A couple of times I thought I should have been promoted and I wasn't. Another guy got promoted over me because his wife and he had a kid. It's not because he deserved it. I was there before him, but I didn't get the promotion. He came after me and got promoted. We spent about eight months in France. And then the 17th Air Force decided to move our band from France and combine it with a band from Libya, Tripoli. We had an air force base in truly then. I forget the name of that base. But it was a strategic air command base. They moved those two bands, put them together, and formed the 17th Air Force Band. And we were at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. That's when I met other black musicians. Found out that there were other black musicians in the Air Force. There were four of them came from Tripoli. And all of them were excellent, excellent musicians. Leo Johnson. Thompson. I forget Thompson's first name. Oh, my god. I can see his face. What is his name, saxophone player? Oh, man. 6 And they were Americans from Tripoli? Yeah. Leo Johnson, William Thompson, Richard Clark and — there was a drummer, but I can't remember his name right now. But all these guys were excellent musicians. I mean like Richard Clark played tenor saxophone, clarinet and bass. Excellent bass player. Leo Johnson is currently professionally still working as a jazz musician, freelance jazz musician. I hear him on the radio every once in a while. But he plays saxophone, flute and bass. And these guys played the instrument like it was their main instrument. I mean they were not shucking a job and they played, you know. So I learned a lot from them because I really had no knowledge of Charlie Parker or Dizzy Gillespie or any of these folks when that happened. That was in 1959. So we had a bond there. But Leo Johnson and Richard Clark, they were the type of guys that would go out and hunt up environments to play. And in Europe they were just everywhere. They had what they call — in Germany what they call jazz kellars doing the old Bohemian, before the flower days, you know. But these jazz kellars were everywhere. Just about every town had a jazz kellar. Excellent jazz musicians. So one day Leo says, look, Ernie, he says, tonight we're going to go down to Johnny's Kellar. It was called Johnny's Kellar in Kaiserslautern. And he was an ex-patriot that stayed over there to open this place. And we’re going to play down at Johnny's Kellar. And he said and you're going to come with us. I said nah; I don't think so. So pardon my expletives here. But Leo said, look, you MF, after duty you're going to get dressed. He said we're going to leave here at eight o'clock this evening. He said you're going to have your hom and we're going to go down there and play. He said and if you don't, I'm going to kick your ass. That's exactly what he said. Now, just so that I can clarify it, what are the names of the places that you went to? It's a place called Johnny's Kellar. Kellar, K-e-1 — Yeah. K-e-l-l-a-r. And why were they called that? It's a cellar. They were downstairs. Oh, I get it. Okay. German for cellar. 7 Got it. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify. And they were always down like — I mean they weren't fancy places. You just go in and there was a bar there and chairs and tables, you know. And you went. And I went. And after that you couldn't keep me away from it. I mean weekends we were gone. If we weren't on tour or anything, we had weekends off, Friday we were gone. We would start in Kaiserslautern. Play there. Then we'd go up to Munich, Heidelberg, Saarbrucken. Do them all. Like Monday mornings at six o'clock we're beaten it down the Autobahn to make it back for rehearsal, which started at nine o'clock. And many times we'd just get back just in time to shower, shave, get in uniform and get to rehearsal. And one time Milton Groves ~ Milton Groves was a black musician, but he was a jet mechanic and a self-taught bass player. He listened exclusively to Ray Brown on recordings and taught himself bass and was a really, really good player. But one time we were beating it down the Autobahn. And he had an MG with his bass in the MG. He tied it down in the MG. And he was pulled over on the side. And we saw him over there. So we pulled over. And he was asleep. I said, Groves, come on man, wake up. And he was so tired that he had to pull over and go to sleep. So we woke him up. Did somebody drive for him? No. But we got back. You know, it was fun. It was really fun. Well, you were young then and you could do it. Yeah. Young, fun and stupid. Did you find in Germany prejudice? No. Say you were trying to do cellar work out here -- No. Yeah. It was different there. No. There was a whole different world, Europe then. This was 1959. And I traveled extensively all over Europe with the 17th Air Force Band. I mean we went everywhere. And everywhere we went we were just greeted with open arms. Whenever you played anywhere people gave you the utmost respect. I mean they loved musicians and artists over there in Europe at that time. I don't know what Europe's like now. 8 But then it was heaven, really. It really was. I mean people were just incredibly gracious and they just took you in. And there was never anything that you were this or you were that. You were a musician and we were friends. One of my friends over there, Tetleff — awe, Tetleff. Man, I'm getting old. I can’t remember. What is Tetleff s last name? Is he a German man? You know, I lost contact with Tetleff. But I met Tetleff at the jazz cellar in Saarbriicken, which wasn't too far from Ramstein Air Force Base. But I met Tetleff there and we became friends. His father was a doctor. And Tetleff, you know, they were fairly well-off. But Tetleff had his own apartment in this big house. So I would go to Sarrbriicken and just stay up there for the weekend and play. We'd hang out and stuff. But Tetleff was a student at the university there. He spoke five languages fluently, incredibly intelligent guy. But we had so much fun together. I lost my train of thought here. Well, how long were you in Germany? I was in Germany for three and a half years. And I think another turnaround in my career was we got a new warrant officer. His name was Nick Azzolino. And Nick Azzolino - last time I heard he was in Texas. But Nick was a saxophonist and an excellent musician. But we had a large band. And I was in — well, we called them dance bands then, big band. And we had a concert band and that kind of stuff. But I was in the big band. And that was really the biggest focus of our trips because people wanted to hear jazz. But the one thing I noticed about Nick Aslino, he played — we had six saxophones. And I was playing tenor. He would be next to me standing and playing, you know, six saxophone parts. But the one thing I noticed about him, he never made a mistake. It dawned on me. I said, you know, this guy never makes a mistake. And I mean literally. So we had devised a thing called the "goofball." It was a ping-pong ball. And whoever made a clam, they'd get the ball. So my - Is a clam a mistake? Mistake, yeah. So this ball, we'd pass it all around. And I said look, I'm not getting this ball. It ain't coming on my chair. So that's how I really buckled down and learned to concentrate and sight read. I think those were my biggest strengths that I could double and sight read. From there Nick Azzolino — I asked him if I could — you know, my tour was coming to an end. And I asked him if he would recommend me to the Bandsman School. Now, the Bandsman School was in 9 Washington, D.C. The Bandsman School? It's the Air Force school of music. And it was a program where they prepared musicians to become bandleaders in the Air Force career field. It was basically a warrant officers' school. So he got me assigned there and I went to Washington. And there I met a man named A1 Bader. A1 Bader's retired now. He's been retired for years. But A1 Bader was a woodwind teacher there and played saxophone, flute, clarinet, piccolo, all the woodwinds, phenomenal, phenomenal musician. And I learned a lot from him. Well, I got through the course and I graduated in the top five percent of the class. Well, those five percent, however many there were, I guess maybe two or three of us — we originally were supposed to go on the list to become warrant officers when vacancies occurred, you know, as attrition you would step into those positions. Well, Department of Defense decided to disband the warrant officers' program in the Air Force. So they did away with all the warrant officers in the Air Force. So I'm sitting there thinking why? My timing is just not right. And in place of warrant officers they came up with what they call senior grades - senior master sergeant and chief master sergeant. Well, that’s still going on in all the military services. But the Air Force was the only one that did away with the warrant officers and replaced warrant officers with these senior NCOs. All the other services kept their warrant officers and developed the senior NCOs, also. But anyway, because I graduated in the top five percent of the class, I was promoted to staff sergeant. And I wanted to stay there in Washington. So they kept me there in Washington. And from there, from the school of music, I went to what they call the Ceremonial Band. And they basically did official ceremonies in Washington at the White House and the Capitol. And we did funerals at Arlington Cemetery and that kind of thing. Well, I was biding my time waiting for an opening in the Airmen of Note, which was the Air Force jazz ensemble, a premier group. It's still going on today. And a friend of mine who helped me out here, Don Grossi, was in that band. And Don told me that he heard me playing, you know, just practicing and wanting to roam somewhere. And a tenor saxophone vacancy was coming up on The Note. So he got the bandleader — his name was Bob Bunten, then — to arrange an audition for me. So I get this call for an audition with the Airmen of Note. And this is what I always wanted to do, 10 okay. I had just gotten married. In fact, my son had just been bom. And I get this call for this audition. So I said, oh, my god, you know. So I told Carolyn, well, I got this — I told her about everything. And I took the audition and passed. But the thing was this band traveled a lot. And my wife was not happy, not happy at all. Yeah. But anyway, it worked out fine. So you took the job? I took the job, yeah. And where did you travel? Oh, we traveled everywhere. We did three — well, at that time it was four three-week tours a year for Air Force community relations and recruiting objectives. And, basically, like I said the Air Force Band was another community relations’ arm of the Air Force like the Thunderbirds are. We had our own promotion system. We did not compete with other Air Force musicians. The Department of Defense — we were a complete, separate entity from the other Air Force career field. So it was a special, special place to be. And I enjoyed it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot there. I