James Matson interview, February 23, 1980: transcript

UNLV University Libraries James Matson 1 An Interview with James Matson An Oral History Conducted by Ken Rose Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries James Matson 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2020 UNLV University Libraries James Matson 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 4 Abstract On February 23, 1980, Ken Rose interviewed James Matson (b. July 14, 1923 in Pensacola, Florida) about his life in Las Vegas, Nevada. Throughout the interview, Matson discusses his childhood, life in Florida before moving to Las Vegas, his family and what brought him to Las Vegas. Matson also delves into his economic struggles and those of the community, his attempt to purchase a home and the changes he would like to see in society. Moreover, Matson talks about his hobbies, his work in construction and interracial friendships. The interview ends with Matson discussing the city of Las Vegas, the weather and the changing buildings. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 5 Yes, I’m here interviewing Mister James Matson from 1817 Desert Inn Mar. And Mister Matson, I’d like to know your place and date of birth. Excuse me one minute. David! David! Get that TV down. Okay, you can go ahead now. I ask you again your place and date of birth, please sir. Well I was born in Pensacola, Florida, 1923, July 14. And how many members of your family do you have? Unknown speaker: (Unintelligible) It was six. (Unintelligible) I had two brothers, (laughs) one nice, bad little sister. And my other two sisters, they were something else. My little baby brother, well it’s a long story about him. But six of us all together. Is there anything particular about your baby brother since? Yes, he’s a bad one. Still remember the time that he got me in some real bad trouble. It’s kinda funny now that I look, really look back on it ’cause I’m a lot older. He was bad, but right now I really don’t care to discuss it. I’d like to know a little bit about your family history. Well, like what? About me and my family or just about the grandparent’s and all that (unintelligible)? A little bit of your grandparents and a little bit of your family. Well, we lived in Pensacola, Florida like I said once and we lived right down the street from my grandparents. We had a nice little family. Me and my grandfather and father, we usually went fishing on Saturday. Go on out to the bay. (Unintelligible) it was a bridge, we called it Fishing UNLV University Libraries James Matson 6 Bay. Nowadays they would call it a pier, I guess. And we’d catch croakers, chokers, nice just hand-sized fish. Good eating. And once in a while we get lucky and go (unintelligible) catching, whenever we could get a boat. And we do that usually on Saturday and have a big ole fish fry in the evening. Go out early in the morning, have a nice fish fry. I loved to have them chokers. It was my favorite, them chokers. They didn’t have too many bones in them, it was real good. My favorite. But mullets, that’s a real nice, good eatin, downright good fish. I mean mullet is real good. Ain’t nothing like a mullet. ’Cause the mullet got rolls in ’em, you can fry the roll. Real good. Mm-hmm. I like some mullet. But since I’ve been out here to Vegas, I haven’t seen a mullet. People never heard of mullets back on this end, on the west coast. (Unintelligible) Hey, I told y’all to quit playin in there, didn’t I? (Unintelligible) David, take your ass to bed. (Unintelligible) kids these days, especially little grandkids. They’re somethin else. But like I said, mullets was good. After we had a fish fry, I still remember my grandmother, grandfather at (unintelligible). Sometimes my aunts would come down because they live back up in the hill part, and they would, they all come down. We eat fish, just have a real good time (unintelligible). I still remember one time, I was about twelve I think, I after we had come up from fishing late that evening, right, we was getting ready to eat and my uncle had some beer. He had a couple cans of beer, he had—I would say drunk. Just stumbling around. So me and my UNLV University Libraries James Matson 7 brother Sam, so we grabbed a can of beer, took off with it, drank it. That’s when I recall I had my first drunk, ’cause right now today I can’t drink beer ’cause it makes me sick. Mm-hmm, I understand. (Laughs) Well anyway, we got drunk. That’s what I would call it, like I said son. And came back stumbling to the house, throwin’ up. And they knew what was wrong ’cause they could smell the beer all over us. And we got a goodie, a good ol’ whooping that day. I learned my lesson about that and also learned that I didn’t like beer. I like whiskey though, especially that charred oak. Love charred oak. Yes. Mister Matson, could you tell me anything about your ethnic ancestry? What you mean by that, son? Well you know, did you have a—is your whole family just black or are you mixed in with anything? Oh. That, that. Oh, yes. My whole family was black. There wasn’t no, what I would call, mixed races in my family. Just black as far as I know. Yes. How about your education? Education. Well, my education, from when I was coming up, I thought was really good. I graduated when I was in the tenth grade. I didn’t graduate but I call it graduating. In tenth grade I felt I knew enough. I would have liked to stayed in school a whole lot longer, but I didn’t have the opportunity because things got pretty bad around the family and me and a couple of the brothers had to go out and work to help out the rest of the family because time was little bit hard on us at the moment after the father I had got hurt on the job. So I went out and I was cuttin’ wood in the wintertime and in the summertime, I was doing whatever odd job I could do. From sometimes shining shoes or whatever. But somehow it worked out all right, we managed. Like UNLV University Libraries James Matson 8 they say always “where there’s a will, there’s a way.” And we had the will and we made the way. That’s the way I always have been. Mm, yes. Right. How many places have your family that you have now, how many places have you lived, were you residents and—? Oh, well. I had an uncle that lived up in Norfolk, Virginia when I was, I think I was sixteen or fifteen. I had saved up a little money to get a ride up there and I had—where I lived at, down the street, there was this white family and they had a son that was, he was what? About, I say, about twenty-two and he drove a truck and he always made trips back up that way so for a small fee, he happened to, worked out a little thing where he could you know, he gave me a ride back up that way. So I stayed with my uncle for a while in Norfolk, Virginia. And it was really nice. Norfolk was something else. And I stayed up there a couple of years in Norfolk and so I moved on to Kentucky. That’s where my father’s parents stayed. My father was from Kentucky, so I moved on to Kentucky for a little while. I stayed there for a few years and after I left Kentucky, I had met this young lady that I was real high on and I would have done anything for the young lady. I was, what I would say, as you always say today, not very well educated. And I really got hurt real bad and I, well God, I hate to even think of that sometimes because all the little money I did have, I invested in her. And now—well after I left Kentucky, excuse me, I ended up in Vegas. Las Vegas. It was, you know, a lot of construction work from what I had heard from a few friends who I had met back in Kentucky and I came down here. Yes, that just kind of (unintelligible) the question I was just getting ready to ask you, you know, your occupational history. Well, I told you what kind of job I worked. But things really picked up after I got to Las Vegas. I mean jobs, construction it was real good ’cause the town was growing, you know, just starting to UNLV University Libraries James Matson 9 move along. I didn’t have no experience but I was trained from, today they would say I was underpaid for what I was doing. I was trained to make cement, which is really not very hard to do, and smoothing it. I kind of liked to doing that, ’cause I like doing stuff with my hand. I was trained to do that and I helped pull up some of the buildings up there that’s on the Strip now. Some of the sidewalks. Some of the sidewalks? Yes. Oh, okay. How about some of your—did you receive any awards or honors or anything? That time of your lifetime. Such as what? Sports? Like during school, yes. Sports. Oh, school. School, here we go with school again. Well when I was eight, I received a—I played, we had a little baseball league we called the Black League back in Pensacola. I had won what I would call a wooden trophy. It wasn’t nothing like the trophies you guys get these days. I received that for outstanding player. I really liked the sports, you know. Mm-hmm. I really did like sports. But I had to work, unfortunately not able to do these kind of things. So that’s about the only kind of award I could ever remember receiving. Do you still have this award with you or anything? I don’t know where that award is. I wish I knew but I don’t. How about, you know, history of illness in the family? UNLV University Libraries James Matson 10 History of illness in the family. There was—there’s not really any illness that I can really think of that the family had. Excuse me, do you mean anything like diseases or cancer or that kind of stuff? Yes, or hereditary, you know, type diseases. You know, stuff like that. Hereditary? That’s what that is, hereditary, right? Oh, no. I don’t think so but—. Well, not—I can’t think of any. Okay. I got this here cold today. Take some medicine with me. (Laughs) Yes, I hope it gets a lot better. How about your properties? You know, any property or wealth achievements that you’ve had over the past years. When I was, I think I was twen—no, no, I was thirty, I think. I had a opportunity to get a house. What, I think it was thirteen thousand to buy a house. I had a opportunity to get that but somehow I got swindled out the deal and I end up—I had put down a big sum down payment. I got, what you would call, took by some, right now today I would call him young stupid-ass whooper snappers. (Unintelligible) young, dressed-up business-type men that—well this is what happened anyway, let me tell you. Well, I’m not ashamed to tell you this. Anyway, here’s what happened. I was looking for a house and I (unintelligible) a ad in the paper that said you can, you know, (unintelligible) a house for thirteen thousand, two story, three bedroom. And I called the guys up and we got together, they told me that I would need a thousand dollars down, which I only had saved up about what’s about, what, I’d say two thousand dollars. Two thousand dollars all together. And they told me to give them this. Well there was a house, but it didn’t belong to them. It was just a empty house, which someone had moved out. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 11 Excuse me. And I went and checked the house out and liked it. I give them the thousand dollars and they told me I could start moving in the next day and they would have all the electric stuff taken care of. So I proceeded to move in the house and that same day the real owners of the house just happened to be driving by and seen me moving in there. And told me that they owned the house and we had big dispute. That’s what you would say, right? And we had it real bad and then I found out—they showed me the papers that they really owned the house and I was really hurt by that. Oh, I see. Well, how about some of your special skills and interests? What do you mean by that? Your hobbies, things you like to do. Oh, well when I was little, like I said, I liked to—I like to chop wood. Right now today, I like to, you know, it’s just a nice exercise and I really like chopping wood. I say that it would be one of my hobbies. I would like—I like to chop wood. Chopping wood. Yes, I noticed all the wood that you have on the side of your house. Yes (laughs). (Laughs). Yes, that’s right. I like to chop wood. How about—. Hey, excuse me one—tell me, son, you told me that you was from University of Nevada, Las Vegas, right? Yes. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 12 Doing this for a history project? You wouldn’t be trying to check up on me or anything like that, would you? Oh, no. It’s just—everything here is just supposed to be used in our history program that we have at the school. If I was to ask for this tape back, could you give it to me? Yes, but as you know you signed a—. Yes, I know I signed that but you wouldn’t do a brotha wrong, would you? Oh, no sir. Yes. This material is used for a research, research for PhD’s and things like that. People majoring in history. Okay. Okay. I have another question for you. How about your church membership and activities? Well church, I’m a truly believer in the Lord myself. But as I was growing up, I didn’t have too much time to (unintelligible) any of that. So I did my prayin’ but just didn’t have time to go and show it. (Unintelligible) but nowadays I go when I can, you know. ’Cause sometimes (unintelligible). How about your membership and activities in any other kind of organizations or anything? You know, Boys Scouts or something like that. I—wasn’t no Boy Scouts for me when I was coming up. That was just mainly for the white people. We just—we didn’t have no money for that and more or less we weren’t too much allowed to enter that. We did have what we called sleeping out on the blanket out under the moon in the backyard. That was about it. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 13 Oh, I see. Do you have any key points (unintelligible)? Yes, I sure do. One key point I have (laughs), that here to be rich. Which is almost too late for me to do that ’cause look at the gray hair. Yes, I see. And another key point, I would like to go out and make everybody in the whole world see that there’s no need for such thing called prejudice. I feel that everybody in this world could live together and be happy. I also—that there shouldn’t be no things, no such thing as money because I feel that everybody should come together, there should be a number of leaders to assign everybody different jobs to do to help the world go along. And everyone should be given, you know, so much food to themselves but enough to eat much as they want, you know. Yes. Everybody just be happy. Everybody should (unintelligible) the automobile situation go. I would like to see everybody with an automobile but everyone shouldn’t drive at the same time. Everyone should have at least four days off. You know, everybody—it’s one big happy world. You see what I’m saying, son? Yes, I see sir. It’s one big, happy world. It’s one big, happy world. That’s the way—well it’s my other key point. Like when I was coming up, when they had that big thing in Alabama. Alabama, I think got, you know, a little bit older everything with the Martin Luther King thing. That was really unnecessary, you see what I’m saying. Unnecessary. Yes, I see. Everybody should be together, you know? Everybody—long as that it’s like, the world always going to be bad. And the brotha these days, they don’t stick together. That’s why the white man UNLV University Libraries James Matson 14 always going to stay on top. Brothers cannot stick together. They always fighting against each other. (Unintelligible) you like something to drink, son? No thank you, sir. I’m getting thirsty doing this here interview with you. Sam: (Unintelligible). This is my son, Sam. Sam! Yes? This is Kevin. How you doing, Kevin? How you doing? All right. Yes. Mister Matson, you didn’t finish the rest of your story there. Oh, the rest of my story. Well, like I said, all the boys down to—everyone should be happy and live together. I’m probably sure you’ve heard this a whole lot of times from old guys like me. Or have you? A little bit. You look a little bit like my nephew Johnny. I do? Yes. Old Johnny. Thanks, Sam. What about (unintelligible) Johnny? Oh, he’s a bright young man, (unintelligible). He’s over there at, what is it—(unintelligible) State in California. He plays a little basketball. He ain’t got nothing on me. He plays a little basketball and he’s trying to get ahead in life and I’d like to see that. Nowadays you kids got the UNLV University Libraries James Matson 15 opportunity. It’s right there in your face, all you got to do is do it. They’re paying you to go to school these days. And sometimes it’s just sad to see me go out, you know, drive down the street or something, you know and see over the Westside, see a couple of brothers just sitting around drinking and smoking they dope. Ain’t doing nothing when they got the opportunity to get ahead. You see? Yes, I see sir. Brothers just got to get their stuff together. Yes, sir. I’d like to know your, like your motivational goals and your aspirations. Motivation and goals and aspirations. Well, one of my motivation and goals was to be rich. Which is just about too late for me to do because (laughs) look at these gray hairs. It’s almost that time for me. But I wanted to just help, you know, all the poor people, you know. Like myself here. If I had the money, I could do that. And just, you know, just make them happy and get them started on the right feet. One of the things that trips me out today is like all of these people in the United States here that need help. The (unintelligible), take the President Carter, instead of sending all this money and food and soil oversees, we can use all that stuff right over here with the poor people in America. I’m all for helping out the other people, but let’s help the people in the United States first of all. See what I’m saying, son? Yes, I see. I feel that that’s the only way to do. You know, you probably see for yourself a lot of people that needs help. (Unintelligible) A lot of brothers who needs help. And that’s one of my goal. And the other goal, it was to own a big grocery store. You know, where I could give the brothers whose got a little money but just UNLV University Libraries James Matson 16 ain’t got it right off-hand you see. You know, give them a little credit, you know, just until they get a little money and come back and pay me back instead of—. You know, it’s better to do this I figure then to let them go around walking unto your store and into other different stores and just stealing and getting caught, you know. And going to jail and what if they got a family they’re trying to feed? Then what the family going to do if the brother is in jail? That’s really my other goal, was to do that. But right now, today, if a brother was to come to a white man, I’m not prejudice, man. Any of ’em. Chinese, you name it. If one of them was to come to the door this day right now hungry, if I got a little bit to give I give it. You know? It don’t make me no different (unintelligible) make it no habit now. I’m willing to do that once. You know, just to talk to them, let them know what is happening. There’s jobs out there, even if they (unintelligible) who ain’t pay nothing but two dollars ninety cents. There’s always still a job. Brothers could do this, or what man. Either one. They ain’t got to go around bummin’, stealin’, takin’ the chance on getting caught and going to jail. Son, I done been in jail myself, it wasn’t fun nothing like that. Which I don’t care to tell you about but anyway, I have been in jail and it’s not a good place to be. Jail is a really, a terrible thing. My son Sam here, he’s done been in jail. Hanging around with the wrong kind of people. And I talked to him and I talked him and nowadays these kids think they know everything. They think you can’t tell them nothing until they get in trouble. But now my son is doing pretty good since he’s been out of jail. He’s been out of jail a couple of months now. Mm-hmm. And in a way, jail learns—learns some people lessons but the hard-heads they don’t care. They love it. That’s the real only point I can get out of it, that they loves it. And I guess that was the other goal, was just to, you know, help the other people. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 17 Mm-hmm. Yes, how about your traditions? Your traditions in the communities and different things your family’s done, you know, through the past years? Different things my family done? You know, traditional things that’s been handed down. Oh, traditional thing that’s been handed down. Well, the only kind of traditional thing that I can think of that has been handed down through the family has been—my grandmother, she used to make this here cold medicine for us. It consisted of (unintelligible) castor oil. That’s the stuff but it always seems to work. Your grandmother’s special remedies? Yes, she’s dead gone. She was a nice lady. I had a real nice family. Yes, I see. And that’s about the only kind of thing that has been coming out through the family. Once in a while I’ll give it to one of the grandkids, whenever I can hold them down. But it was good. Yes. Well, thank you Mister Matson for completing this part of my interview and completing on the other side. Thank you. (Tape one ends) (Unintelligible) Mister Matson, when did you arrive in Las Vegas? I arrived in Las Vegas around about 1955 or ’58, I’m not too sure. Fifty-five or fifty-eight? Yes, around there. Okay. What was your first impressions of Las Vegas when you arrived? UNLV University Libraries James Matson 18 Oh, my first impressions. When I got to Las Vegas, it was hot. And you know what I mean when I say hot. And I really wanted to turn around and go back to home, to my hometown because of the heat. But I needed the money. Since I had got a tip from a friend about the construction out here, it was, you know, really heavy at the time and they needed help. And so that’s what brought me out here in the first place. So I stuck it out, I got on with the construction company and they were just charging me like I told you previously. It paid all right, it paid very good. So I just stuck it out and I really, after a few months I really got to like Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. It was dry, it was hot and dry. But I stuck it out, me and the family. All we had, it was just me and—I only had a little girl at the time. So me and the wife, you know, we stuck it out and I had met a friend of mine who I had known back in Florida when I was coming up. His name was Jimmy and he showed me around a little bit. Like kind of got me to like it a little bit more. So I liked Las Vegas. Okay, sir. What type of work or line of work did you do? Like I said (unintelligible), I was in the construction. You know, cement. I’d cement a lot—I said (unintelligible) a lot of buildings up there I have contributed some kind of effort in far as (unintelligible) cement. And I lay a couple of—some of the sidewalks up there. I helped do that. As that went on, I sort of got me another part-time job. And that was with security—not really security, I would call security. It was with the man I had met. We just, you know, needed some help (unintelligible) house around his house. Like up towards the mountains a little way. Mm-hmm. I usually did that on the weekends. How many years did you get to do this? UNLV University Libraries James Matson 19 Oh, (unintelligible) for about—you mean as far as the part-time job or construction? Construction. Oh, gee. For about twenty, twenty-five years. Something like that. Mm-hmm. I got to like that, construction. It’s really a, excuse me, it’s really a good paying job for a person who don’t get the proper education. See what I’m saying? Yes, I see. What about the society? The society in general as far as I felt was sorta—it’s back to what I was talking about earlier. Prejudice. There wasn’t too many white folks that really liked my color. So the society in general was prejudiced. But that wasn’t all. Don’t get me wrong, there was some good folks. and that’s really about all I could say about the society at the time. But nowadays it’s a lot better. It’s a lot better. There isn’t too much of the prejudice ways that was back in that time when I had first got to Nevada, Las Vegas. I have quite a few—well, a substantial amount more white friends now than I did back then. I met a few of what I would call my white friends from the man I told you about who I used to work for. For like just helping around the house and a little security up in the mountains. Mm-hmm. And I met some white friends through him who really treated me nice. I still remember the time I had got stuck in a financial problem and you know what that was, that was with the thousand dollars I had lost to the guys who bought the house (unintelligible) and they helped me out a lot and didn’t—I didn’t have to pay them the full amount I had borrowed from them. Mm-hmm. So I consider them to be my friends. And that’s about it. UNLV University Libraries James Matson 20 One last question. How did—how’s, you know, Las Vegas changed? How has Las Vegas changed? Las Vegas has changed a lot. Like when I first got here there was—I would say roughly, I’m not even sure of the amount of people, about twelve thousand or maybe a little bit more. It was growing every day, it seemed like. There was new buildings and houses. This, it was just a big, growing place Las Vegas. And it’s still growing right now, today. I see. Las Vegas is a gambling town, that you know of. And the buildings up there in the Strip has changed a lot. There has been a lot of rebuilding. As you can see, Caesars Palace was a really unique building. It wasn’t always like that, nor that big. All of the buildings have changed. A lot on the Strip. And the MGM, that’s one of the newer buildings on the Strip, if I’m correct. It’s nothing like the (unintelligible) that we did when I was helping to build some of the buildings on the Strip. Has got a little—lot more technical. The houses has changed a lot and a lot of them there housing tracks out there on Bolding Highway, I helped with a whole lot of those. So that’s just all about I have to say about the buildings. Okay, sir. Thank you for the interview and that about wraps it up. Oh, you’re welcome. You’re welcome.