Transcript of interview with Christopher Maestas by Claytee White, September 14, 2008

AN INTERVIEW WITH CHRISTOPHER MAESTAS An Oral History Conducted by Claytee White Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2018 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks, Maribel Estrada Calderon, Nathalie Martinez, Rodrigo Vazquez Editors and Project Assistants: Laurents Bañuelos-Benitez, Maribel Estrada Calderon, Elsa Lopez, Nathalie Martinez, Marcela Rodriquez-Campo, Rodrigo Vazquez iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a National Endowment for Humanities (NEH) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Christopher “Chris” Maestas (1965-2009) was an engaged educator and leader within the Chicano, Latinx, and Henderson communities. As he traced back his Latinx heritage, he explored his father’s hometown in Llaves, New Mexico, where he and his family were discriminated for their non-white demeanor; and his mother’s paternal Spanish roots; his grandfather came to work in Henderson, Nevada at the Basic Magnesium Industrial (BMI) plants during World War II. The Chicano and Spanish cultures played a significant part in defining his role within the community. For Chris, Chicanos were “people that lived in the southwestern United States particularly southern Colorado, New Mexico and northern Arizona that were originally Mexican citizens before the treaty (Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo) was signed and then after the treaty was v signed they became Americans.” In this interview, he dives into the difference between Chicano and Spanish cuisine and gives his own tips on how to make Spanish chile relleno. Chris discussed what life was like in Henderson living in Henderson Camp when his grandfather emigrated from Spain in 1943. He described the evolution of the Henderson community in the 50s through his parents’ experiences living in the Hispanic communities of Victory Village and Carver Park. During his childhood in the early 70s, Chris recalled living in Henderson when it was known as Basic and living in a small town-site house. One of his most special recollections was from the summer of 1980, when his family purchased their first set of air-conditioning units. As a passionate teacher and 1984 alumnus from Basic High School, he advocated student engagement as Student Council Advisor. Chris was also an active member of the St. Peter the Apostle, Catholic Church, Knights of the Columbus group and LUPE (Latinos United for Perfect Equality) Club. The LUPE club promoted equality for the Hispanic community and family values. Chris described their Saturday picnics at BMI Park and the annual Henderson Industrial Days festival. vi TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Christopher Maestas September 14, 2008 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Claytee White Preface....................................................................................................................................... iv-v Introduces the origins of his last name; history of his father, Marshall Maestas Senior in Llaves, New Mexico; Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo of 1848; anti-Native American sentiments in New Mexico; explanation of “Chicano”; mother Mary Ostilia Cecelia Sanchez Maestas; history of his grandmother and grandfather; life in the Henderson Camps; Hispanics in Victory Village; education in Henderson in the 60s and early 70s ......................................................................1 – 5 Talks about the forms of entertainment in Henderson; Catholicism in Henderson at St. Peter’s for Hispanics in the 60s and early 70s; Father Caesar Cavilia; the LUPE (Latinos United for Perfect Equality) social club. Compares the Spanish and Mexican food customs; Chicano food; Ely; Basque culture; Discusses American versions of Mexican cuisine; Mexican beverages ....... 6 – 9 Elaborates on religion in Henderson from 1943-1971; the Dominican Sisters; growing up with Virgil Williams; the 1st Chicano city councilman/1st Chicano mayor Cruso Lagee; LUPE Traditions and Community; BMI Park Knights of Columbus; Basic Magnesium Incorporated (BMI); Henderson housing and neighborhood structure; Town-site house ...........................10 – 12 Introduces his siblings: Marshall Junior, Dennis, Randall, Elizabeth Ann Maestas, and Christopher; Pre-Natal Care in the 50s and 60s; Growing up in Henderson in the 60s; Considers the tension between Chicanos and Mexican-Americans; Childhood in Henderson in the 60s; Air-Conditioning; Henderson Celebrations and Traditions; Henderson Industrial Days; Henderson Heritage Days.........................................................................................................................13 – 16 Appendix….. ..........................................................................................................................17 – 18 vii This is Claytee White. I'm with Chris Maestas. It is Sunday, September 14th, 2008. So, Chris, would you give me your full name, please. Christopher John Maestas. Would you spell your last name for me? M-A-E-S-T-A-S. And where did you get your name? First, middle or last? Be more specific, please. The last name? Yes. From my father's side of the family, which it's believed to have some Brazilian influence, but mainly it's a Chicano name. So tell me about -- I know that your mother is Spanish. So first I want your father's name and tell me about his family, how he grew up, where he's from. My dad's name is Marshall Maestas Senior. In Spanish it would be Marcelino Maestas. And he's from a place called Llaves, New Mexico. Llaves is a valley. And if you look on a map printed prior to 1980 in this north central part of New Mexico, it's labeled Maestas actually. And it's near a place called Cuba, New Mexico, where my aunt, my dad's sister, actually runs the post office one day a week. It's only open one day a week? Uh-huh, for about two hours, still. They just paved the road through -- it's a state highway. They just paved the road through there about 1980. They got indoor plumbing about 1978. They got a telephone about 1983. They don't lock their doors because the only people that come through there really are the neighbors and people from the University of New Mexico that study the Native American ruins that are there. So what is the population approximately? Llaves is incorporated. So the area with Llaves and Cuba and Lindrith and (Parkview) is probably not even a thousand people, not even a thousand. There's a dam there near Parkview where you can fish. The dam is there for a reason. It's not like you would think. It's not a water reservoir. It was there to stop runoff for some reason. Lots of water there. My aunt and her husband, my uncle, they work for the forestry service. And my uncle was -- my dad's brother-in-law was a fire spotter and he could actually -- still alive -- he could predict a day or two ahead of time from the lookout tower where I've been where lightning is going to strike in 2 the next couple of days. And they can do it by -- he does it -- he taught me how to do it. I mean not actually how to do it. But he indicated that looking at the barometric pressure, looking at the clouds and the time of day. And they would actually send fire crews over in that area. And he was correct about 90 percent of the time. But they had control of that whole area. And what I like about that area is that my aunt and uncle live on the property where my dad grew up. And his second house where he grew up -- the first house burned down. It was all wood. And the second house is still there. And I believe it's haunted in the sense that we have been there and lights have shown up in this vacant house. The house has been vacant for 50, 60 years. But lights show up there now and then inside like kerosene lamps. They don't have power. And the only people that have used the houses -- there are two right next to each other -- are the people from the University of New Mexico when they come and study the things they're doing like every three years or so. The valley is unique in the sense that it's been settled by Chicanos in the area. And my father's family got there when the treaty was signed -- I believe it was Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, Treaty of 1848 whatever year that is. The next morning they woke up as American citizens. Previously they were Mexican citizens. They were kicked off their property. So they had to move about 40 miles north to where they settled in this place in Llaves, New Mexico. What happened to the other property? It became property of the white man. A lot of New Mexico is very, quote, unquote, white state and mainly against the Native Americans. Not a lot of African-Americans in that state. If your skin was dark, a lot of places -- like Farmington is a very white community. They actually have white dogs there. And I'm sure you know what white dogs are. Do you know what white dogs are? No. White dogs are dogs that are trained to attack people of less than white skin. I've actually been attacked, not been barked at, attacked at, whatever. The man called his dog down -- he ignored my mother because she had white skin, but I don't -- in Farmington, New Mexico. I've actually eaten at a restaurant where they threw the plates down because we were in the wrong one, wrong restaurant. So this place is about an hour -- where my dad grew up is about an hour south of that. So a lot of the -- and it still exists. The attitude still exists? Oh, the attitude still exists through lots of New Mexico. They really do. But now it gets more and more blurred because so many of the Chicanos have intermarried with the Native Americans as my cousins have. My dad's oldest brother was a representative to the Dulce Tribe -- of one group of Navajos. The Dulce Navajos I think is what they're called. He's dead, but they have a 3 permanent house there. It's owned by the government, but it's in his family line for 99 years or something. And all of his children have all married Navajos. So a lot of the lines have blurred. What's interesting about that group is that they have really forged ahead to achieve higher education in a lot of ways, which is tough for Native Americans especially in that area, but tough for Chicanos as well in that area. But they've all -- you know, some have master's degrees, some have Ph.Ds. Education is real important to that side of the family for sure. Wonderful. Now, when they lost that piece of land, that first, did they buy other land? No. In those days you could just -- what was it called? What's that called? Homestead. Homesteading. I couldn't think of it. That's how you could get it. So that's what they did. So your father's family homesteaded some land? They actual did that land. The beauty of it today is they have control of -- although my father doesn't own property anymore there. He sold it all to the relatives that live there because they have cattle. But he controls water rights and mineral rights, which it's high in natural gas. And they can drill that. Also they have oil rights as well there. So even though he sold the property, he still has control over those things and grazing rights, too. That's great. You used the word Chicano a couple of times. Please explain that term to me and how it's used. Okay. Number one, the reason I say Chicano a lot is because my dad uses it and he identifies himself that way. It means primarily, at least to my understanding of it, although it has a highly political background from the 1950s and 60s, it means that people that lived in the southwestern United States particularly southern Colorado, New Mexico and northern Arizona that were originally Mexican citizens before the treaty was signed and then after the treaty was signed they became Americans. So there's no migration pattern. They've always just been that area. And there was no push or pull. They were just there as opposed to any of the Latino groups that you can think of. So we refer to ourselves as Chicano. However, my mother doesn't. So now, do you want to talk about your mother's side of your family, or do you want to talk about the use of the word Chicano in the 1960s? I'm not quite ready to talk about the Chicano of 1960s because it is highly politically influenced and it could be very -- it's very negative in a lot of ways. So when I say it some people are not quite sure what I mean. So for my own students I try to explain it to them, which my students in public high school have no concept of what it means where most of them are Mexican-American or Mexican nationals or one group or another. 4 Now, tell me about your mother's side of the family. And give me your mother's full name. My mother is Mary -- oh, that's a good question. It's Mary Ostilia Cecelia Sanchez Maestas. She has three first names and, Sanchez and Maestas, two second names because in the Spanish family arena you keep the two names. So it's Sanchez y, which is "Y," and Maestas. Her mother was Aragon y Maestas. And her family, they're Aragons from northern Spanish, which are descendants of Catalan Aragon, that region. And they're closely related to the people in the Pyrenees and the -- oh, gosh, I can't think of the name of the group. I'm having a little brain aneurysm here. Basque. They are a part of the Basque group. So they're more aligned to the French than they are the Spanish. But my mother, they're all very light-skinned people. Lots of them have dark hair and blue eyes, which is highly characteristic of Spaniards. And so although my father and mother speak their language -- their Spanish is very close, it isn't the same. My mother's is more Castilian as opposed to my father's is more Mexican-style Spanish. And there are some differences. It makes a difference. My mother comes from -- her mother and my grandfather, they were high school sweethearts. They got married. They moved to Nevada in '53. Actually, my grandfather moved here first in '53 to work at the Basic Magnesium plants during the Second World War. There were no streets or anything here at all. And they lived in tents. And he brought his oldest son. And when they had enough money, they sent for my grandmother and the other two children. And so they came. My grandmother and my grandfather are both Spanish, considered Spanish, very light-skinned, from the same background. What's interesting is they are -- and I've always thought this was very interesting. My mother and father come from two different, lack of a better term, classes of people. My mother is more Spanish. And they're the kind where it's a little more refined, a little more proper. You have your entrance to your home with the actual silver plate on a table where they used to put calling cards. Still exists. And my great aunt, who helped raise my mother, is still alive. She's 96, just turned 96. My mother's mother died here in Henderson, Nevada, in 1946. It was after the war. She had breast cancer. They put her on a train to UCLA and they couldn't save her. So they brought her back and she died at her home here. And then since it was a very rough area, my grandfather kept my uncle and sent my mother to live with her grandparents in Barstow, California, because my great-grandfather was in charge of the Barstow train station there during the war because the troop trains would go through. He was in control of that group. So they lived there. He was in charge of that area. He was the engineer in both senses of the word, train engineer as well as facilities. And so she grew up and lived there for five years. And then she came back. When my grandfather married another high school sweetheart, she came back and they put the family back together. And that was about '48 or so. She was about five years old. So it might have been '49. 5 But the family is melded very well. But I could always tell there was a difference, not it was good or bad. It just was different. It just was different. Like any two families, it was just different. Are there family stories about living in tents prior to the housing that was constructed? Yes, here. My grandfather and my uncle -- it used to be called Henderson Camp in Henderson, which a lot has been written about. And it was located in the area now, which is Boulder Highway and Lake Mead. And they lived in camps there. They had to bring in water. They had to make fires. But you only had the fires at a certain time because it couldn't be lighted at night in case the planes flew over, in case we were ever invaded. So it was kept very quiet. But there was, you know, somewhere around 1400, 1500 people that lived in these camps, mainly all men because it was too rough for the women. And then about '43 -- by the way, I said my grandfather came to Henderson. He came in '43, not '53. I'm sorry. He came during the war. So it was '43. About 1944 or '45 the War Department began to build houses in old Henderson. In 1943 there was a wave of Hispanics -- and I'm saying that because I don't know what their family history was -- that came from Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona all about the same time, came to work in the plants. And my grandfather was one of them. It was February of '43. And there's actually an article in the Basic Bombardier that commemorates these people coming. It's February '43 or so. There were blacks, whites and now Hispanics that worked at BMI. Supposedly they built housing, Victory Village for whites, Carver Park for blacks. Where did the Hispanics live? For the most part -- my parents when they got married they lived in the Victory Village area. There were government houses that were brought. They were -- not bunkers. What are they called? Barracks essentially that were brought from Nellis to the Henderson area because it was owned by the War Department. So most anybody who's anybody in Henderson always started out in Victory Village. Now, as time went on the blacks lived in Carver Park. And they had their own elementary school as well. A few whites went to the black elementary school because it was closer. But as the 60s progressed many of the Hispanics moved into the Carver Park area rather than the Victory Village area. By 1971 or '72 they both became very like slums and they were torn down. Both areas were torn down. We have two other subsidized housing areas that took their place, not in the same location, but in the Henderson area that took their place. It's interesting because there is great stories of -- when my parents got married they lived in Victory Village. Then they bought the house where I grew up. It was in between Victory Village and Carver Park. And there was a store close by. And so when the African-American boys and girls would walk, because they went to separate schools, they would walk by our house. My brothers didn't know what to call them. They were young kids. They were young boys. And my brother Marshall came running to my parents and said, hey, the green men are here, the green men are coming, the green men. They referred to them as green people. They 6 knew they were a color, but they didn't use black or colored or anything else. I don't know where they came up with that. My mother doesn't know where they came up with that. They called them green, which I thought was hilarious myself. Now days when my mother will say -- she still uses colored. And I say what color is that exactly? And she'll say green. They were a young married couple at the time. Did they talk about the entertainment in that kind of a place at that time? There was essentially none because they were poor. Everybody was poor in Henderson. And if you wanted any kind of entertainment or if it was New Year's Eve, for example, which was a biggie, or if it was -- oddly enough, Chicanos celebrate St. Patrick's Day. Believe it or not they do. And you would drink. You would go down Boulder Highway, which was a two-lane road, to Fremont Street. And you could go to any number of places there because you'd shop there. You'd eat lunch at Woolworth's. You would go to JC Penney's counter. There were several great stores there. They had a movie theater, the El Portel. You had several places where you could go and celebrate stuff. I remember one of my mother's friends would tell me that everybody was poor. And so they would play cards every night because not everybody had a television. My mother was married before they had a television. And so they would play cards every night. They learned to play lots of cards, which I don't know -- I love to play cards. I don't know where I learned that. But that's what they did all the time for entertainment. There wasn't a lot. But they did have a lot of church groups, lots of church activities for entertainment because everybody was poor. Tell me about church. Tell me about the religious life. Most of the Chicanos or Hispanics or whatever -- it's different now -- but in the 60s and 70s were all Catholic. And so much so that St. Peter's in Henderson was one of the first Catholic churches in Nevada to have a mass strictly in Spanish. And the priest, Caesar Cavillia, was an Italian from Ely. He spoke Spanish perfectly. And so he conducted this mass beginning in 1971. And then it attracted Mexican musicians that have an interesting story. And you'll get those names as well. They have a very interesting story, Mexican musicians that have participated over there the last 40 years or so at that church. Even today groups of them still sing at the 11:30 mass. I laugh because they still refer to the mass as bilingual where it's just Spanish. But they refer to it as bilingual. And that always cracked me up because they don't really understand what they're saying. What tongue exactly are you referring to? But anyway, so there were social clubs. There were the traditional women's clubs and men's clubs. But I liked it a lot because Father Cavillia inspired a club called LUPE, Latinos United for Perfect Equality. And it was a public service club, not necessarily a church club. But they were 7 housed at the church. And like all good Catholic churches it had a gym. It had kitchen facilities. They were available during the thing. And it had a bar underneath. All good Catholic churches do. So they had a bar. And this bar had a -- it wasn't opened like that. It was just open for when they had meetings. And they had food there and stuff. Well, this group met there on a regular basis. And they discussed all kinds of things. And I remember growing up they had parties. They had a St. Patrick's Day party every year at the Henderson Armory. They had a New Year's Eve party every year. They had all these events. How about Cinco de Mayo? We didn't do that. We didn't do Cinco de Mayo because you understand Cinco de Mayo was strictly a Mexican holiday. We wouldn't do that normally. Just like the Spanish-American month is September. It's not recognized mainly by the Chicano groups. I mean we don't object to it. It's just not something -- I've never been to any Hispanic festivals in Las Vegas. It's just not part of our style. It's not part of your culture? Yeah. All the other Mexican groups go. Now, our high school, we celebrate Cinco de Mayo for everybody. I participate because the food is wonderful. Tell me about the food. Tell me about your mother's food versus your father's food. Oh, that's interesting. Let's start with this. I was in my 30s in grad school when I realized there's a difference between Spanish food and Mexican food. I had never been to a Spanish restaurant in all my life until I was in graduate school. And that was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, by the way. The Mexican food, it's really -- how should I say this? Just like there are parts of the United States where the food is different, Mexico is divided that same way. Okay? Well, the Southwestern United States is also divided that same way. There is what I call Chicano food where it's what I have in my family, what I get at the restaurant in El Torrito, which is owner-operated by Chicanos as well. It's the same kind of food. It's a very specific type of food. Macayo's Restaurant in Las Vegas is very similar. And that's Northern Arizona. All right? So can you tell me what the food is like? The one thing that they all have in common is tortillas. Now, Spanish people eat tortillas that are made of flour. Mexican people eat tortillas that are made of corn because corn is a staple in Mexico. My mother doesn't know how to make corn tortillas at all, period. But she can make flour tortillas. Therefore, I can make flour tortillas. Okay? My brother Dennis had to learn how to make corn tortillas. It's a very specific way. And if you don't do it right, you end up with stuff on the ceiling. There is more pork in Spanish food than there is in Mexican food, it's more beef and more pork. There's more lamb in Spanish food because actually my grandfather's family were land herders 8 in New Mexico. They actually raised lambs, which is funny because the Basques raise lamb in northern Nevada. And in Ely they raise lambs up there. And so also what's interesting is that -- the common thing is fish and seafood. Shellfish is very popular with the Spaniards as opposed to seafood of other types is popular in Mexico. There is a difference there because of the Gulf of Mexico. It doesn't create enough shellfish. It's not something they have there as a staple as opposed to the North Atlantic where Spain is. So it comes across that way. So the colder the temperature of the water, the more likely you get. Rice is a Spanish staple as opposed to beans. Pinto beans is a Mexican staple. I find it very interesting that there are many American Mexican foods that have no basis in New Mexico whatsoever, but we refer to that like, for example, a chimichanga. I have never had one. And you can get it at any restaurant. It's purely an American food. It's not Mexican food at all. So is that that long thing with the sugar? No, no. That's a churro. That's a Spanish food actually. That's a churro. But the chimichanga is a burrito that's deep-fried is what it is essentially. And they're hot and they're deep-fried. But it really isn't a Mexican food. Tacos are interesting because what we refer to as taquitos, the rolled up corn with beef or whatever it is, that's the norm in the better Mexican restaurants in Mexico. It comes as a taquito. They don't have a concept of taco where we have the fold-over tortilla with the meat and cheese and lettuce and stuff. It's not the same concept. Is that American? That's really American. The one I like the most is the chili relleno. A chili relleno, R-E-L-L-E-N-O, in the Spanish culture you make the chili relleno with all the meat and fruit and all kinds of stuff. You have to cook it for like a day, day and a half. And then you let it cool. And then you make the egg batter. And you mix it together and make these little balls that you fry. And you have to let those set for a couple of days. That's a Spanish chili relleno. That's my mother's side. My dad's side is simply you take the Anaheim chili. You take out the inside. You stuff it with cheese, put it in the egg batter and fry it. Huge difference, a huge difference. The food makes a huge difference. The difficulty comes when you have family dinners. It's like everybody brings -- like everybody's potato salad. It's always different. No two potato salads are alike. Some have more mustard. Some have less. Whatever. That's the way the Mexican food is. It makes a huge difference. The one thing in common between all Chicanos and Mexican food is the Anaheim chilis. That's pretty common. They grow so very easily in the southwestern and northern Mexico. So that's 9 very common. And corn dishes of some sort. There's always some kind of corn activity going on. And then, of course, Claytee, this is purely observational. It has nothing to do with basis in fact. But every culture has a fried bread component. And for the Spanish it's the churro. For the Mexicans it's a sopapilla. It could be any of that, any kind of fried bread. For Americans it's a doughnut. Well, tell me about what they drink. We think tequila is Mexican. It is. It is because it's made from the agave plant, which right now the Mexican government has had to control its sale because the price has skyrocketed. And more people are drinking tequila and using it for various things. And so they've had to control the price. Same thing with corn, by the way. Corn has gone up about 400 percent in the last two years in Mexico. And it's a staple. It's like buying bread at a grocery store. And the stores had to take it off the shelves because people were hoarding it for whatever reason. There's no lack of it. It's just gone out of control. Well, tequila, understand in Mexico it's for the wealthy, though. It's not for the average person. But it's from the agave plant. So it's become very, very popular in the Southwestern United States as opposed to the Spaniards. Their drink of choice is wine. And you can make sangria, for example, which I can make. So the red wine is very, very popular. And they cook with a lot of wine as well. My mother doesn't, though. She never has been a wine fan. So she doesn't cook with it, but I do. But there's a huge difference there. Beer, of course, transcends any culture at all. But Mexico has a very specific Mexican beer, which I do like, and that they make in Mexico. They don't make it here, but they ship it up here and you can buy it here. Is it legal here? Yes. Las Vegas is very, very -- it's known for its wide variety of Mexican beers because they have a lot. You can buy it just about anywhere. My favorite is Negro Modelo, by the way. It is my favorite one. But there are other drink choices like a Mexican Horchata, which is a Mexican rice drink, which I don't like. It's made from rice. And you can buy now in stores here in town and stuff in different -- 7-Elevens will sell it, mainly for the Mexican-American -- people that are from Mexico, first generations. I don't like it. I've never cared for it. They have rice drinks in Japan, too. Yes, they do. 10 So commonalities there. The reason I asked was it legal was just because of Cuba. See, I've made that mistake. I think I've told you that. I ordered a beer and I got a beer illegally in Florida. And I asked for it the next day and I almost got thrown in jail. Yes. That's why I said that. Now, you were telling me about the church beginning in 1971. What happened to religion from and 1971? What was going on there? There were three churches in the Henderson area, all Christian. And we didn't get our first synagogue or anything until like the 80s. The Catholic Church and the Community Church, which is general Protestant Church set up by the government to house all groups that weren't Catholic. And then the Catholic Church -- it's in its second building, but in the current location on Boulder Highway -- was founded in 1941. And my grandfather was one of the founding members when he got here because they used to have to meet at the Community Church before they had their own church built. And so my uncle Manuel was one of the first altar boys. You know, you had electricity, but you couldn't use it at night because of planes flying overhead. And they flew very low. So the church -- the actual date of its inception is '41. But I think the church actually was built in '43. And they built a school. What was interesting is that you could go -- Henderson had a unique -- I think it was unique for Nevada. They didn't specify -- like the high s