Ellen Lempe interview, March 23, 1977: transcript

UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 1 An Interview with Ellen Lempe An Oral History Conducted by Paul Pearson Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2020 UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 4 Abstract On March 23, 1977, Paul Pearson interviewed Ellen Lempe (b. 1928 in Detroit, Michigan). Lempe details her life in Sturgis, Michigan—her marriage, her kids and an automobile accident that resulted in gangrene and amputation—before moving to Las Vegas, Nevada. She recounts working as a telephone operator, gambling after work and a big win playing keno. Moreover, she describes her disinterest for politics, her husband’s love for sports and his work as a car salesman. The two end by discussing inflation and the changing attitude and landscape of the city. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 5 Okay. I’m the collector, my name is Paul Pearson. And the informant is Ellen Lempe of 3391 Brussels, Las Vegas, Nevada. Now, when did you first move to Nevada? Twenty-five years ago. About twenty-five years ago. Where did you move from? Michigan. How come you moved here? Well, Michigan was having quite a time back there and my husband is a car salesman and this sounded like a pretty good place to come. Have you lived in the same apartment the whole time or have you—? Oh, no. We’ve had a couple of homes. What was your, excuse me, first home like? Our first home? Yes. It was just a furnished apartment when we first moved, and it was very nice. Then the town wasn’t what it is now. It was not as huge and it was completely different than I thought it would be when I came out here. What did you expect when you came out and what did you find? Oh, I expected the whole, the lavish plush and great things, you know. It had been, everything I had read about it because I read everything I could get a hold of before I moved. Las Vegas was still a big gambling town even back then? Yes. Oh, yes. It was not as great and as huge as it is now, but it was still the Strip and the Downtown. And it was still a show place. What kind of things did you do for entertainment at that time? Could you—? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 6 Oh, for entertainment? Well, of course, we had to go Downtown and see all the places and the Mint was really expanding then. The Mint? What’s the Mint? It was the Mint then, the Mint Hotel and Casino down in Downtown. Is it still there or have they moved it or is it changed? Yes. It’s still down there. They’ve expanded, really expanded over by towards the railroad, because I remember when I came in that railroad station, it was like a little old country town. And I thought, oh my heavens. This? Is all the great place? I can’t believe it. (Laughs). And here’s this little old dumpy railroad track and it was just, the train that came out, you wouldn’t believe it. It was like out from the old west shows. And I had three kids. What train did you come on? Was it—? The New York Central. Oh, yes. The train station that was right down at the end of town. Right down (unintelligible) Main Street. Is it still there? I think, I haven’t been Downtown for quite a while. But it was right down at the end of the street, Main Drive was right down there. What exactly did the Main Drive look like back then? Was it—? (Coughs). It had the casinos, it had the New Frontier, the Old Frontier, the Pioneer Club, the Mint, the Horseshoe, and I’m thinking about the other side. This was all about twenty-five years ago? Yes. Oh, wow. How come, like when you moved into your first home, how come you moved out UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 7 of it and moved to other homes? How many places have you lived in since you came here? We lived in—it’s only been three or four. How come you moved around? Was it, did you have money problems? Yes, well it was—. Like I said, my husband’s a car salesman and (unintelligible) and we lost a couple of homes. And then we would move to apartments. But the thing of having a home here is the most wonderful thing, I think, because they are cheap considered to your eastern standards back East. And when you do have one, you sure hate to lose it because, I mean, you just expand and grow and grow and grow. It’s really a shame when you do lose them because they are beautiful. The homes. Did you go to school in Southern Nevada or did you go—? No. Oh, I see. You went to school where? Michigan. Michigan. Have you held any occupations here in Southern Nevada? Yes, I was a telephone operator. How long did you do that for? I was—fifteen years. Did you start that when you first moved here? Mm-hmm. When we first moved out here, I got the job at the telephone office. And worked every shift (laughs). Like they have all the different shifts and everything. Until—and I was an instructor and—. An instructor? For a telephone operator? Yes. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 8 Oh, yes? And so then the boys were getting older and older, and we were having troubles with boys as you usually do, and girls. But I just had to finally quit and be home with the boys. Oh, I see. The boys, you’re talking about your kids? Mm-hmm. Oh, I see. I see. Was it, did the job pay very good? Oh, yes. Did you work long shifts? It was tremendous because I had been a telephone operator. I was a telephone operator back in Michigan. With the trouble I had and all of that, it was the best job I could have. And when I moved out here, I applied for the job and I got it right away. They needed telephone operators. It was easy to get worked on? Yes, very. I applied and I started working two days later. Oh, wow. Did you work a forty-hour week or was it twenty hours? Yes, it was a forty-hour week. It was a straight shift. They had their straight shifts, here like (unintelligible) straight shifts and (unintelligible) would have the splits or the nights. And so I took the day shifts because all the boys were in school then. (Unintelligible) kids, yes. And so I worked there for fifteen years. Fifteen years. And then you, and then from there on you’ve just sort of been a housewife and just been around the house. I see. All right. I guess you weren’t married—were you married in Southern Nevada? No. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 9 Where were you married? In Michigan. In Michigan. Okay, I see. Were you involved in acting politics in any way when you came here? You know, when you first came to Nevada. Or have you ever been? No, I never have been. It doesn’t interest you at all? Well, it—I have too many other things to worry about (laughs). Yes. Then worry about them. But my husband does. And I really don’t even listen to him. Like he’ll, like this one is a good one and this one and this one. And I don’t mess with it because I have too much to worry about otherwise. Do you have any opinions about it? Do you like what’s being done or a certain party? Well, yes I have my opinions of some of them, which you really wouldn’t want to hear. But my opinion, I think it’s up to the men. Because the men are running and they’re the ones who are going to do it. And I think the men should be the ones to really get up there and tell them what they think. Vote for, maybe they like them, if they think they’re doing all right, if not forget ’em. Yes. You’re not women’s lover? No. No? You’re not? Uh-uh. Because I never have been. And it’s probably not just because of the way I am or because of my (unintelligible) but I’ve always thought that the men, they started and they’re the ones that are up there to be elected. And I think the men should judge them because it’s the men that are working. They’re the ones that are raising the family, they’re working to make the money, to UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 10 raise the family, keep the house, feed them, this, that, and everything. And they should be the one that knows who’s up there and what he’s doing and everybody is going to make it better for him to make that living, raise those kids and that house, and the whole bit. I really, I’ve always felt like that. I think if it’s the men voting against the men, there’s more behind it. It’s like, the man is going to tell us what to do and this and that and the other thing. You raise a good point there. You would probably get a lot of arguments from (unintelligible). I probably would. Have you ever or were you a member of a social group or other interest group like, I guess you probably won’t (unintelligible)? But did you ever join a club or anything like that? No, I never have. You never have? Like, clubs, you know (unintelligible) or social clubs. But like a liberation or this or that, I think that is a waste of time, really. Sure. I really do, because I can’t see me out there. Walking with a pole with something written on the top of it and walking around so everybody could see what the heck I look like, and this and that. Why the hell isn’t she home taking care of her kids? Or, you know, something like that. I just couldn’t see the point in it. Yes. Can you tell me a little bit more, say, about your family history? Where your family background, where your ancestors or relatives are from? Well my father was Irish, he was from Ireland. Free Irish (laughs). My mother is Irish and German, I believe. Yes. And she was born in the states. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 11 Your father was born in the states? No, my father was born in Ireland. Oh, I see. But my mother was born in the states, in Ohio. And how they met, I don’t remember. I think he was in the army and had just gotten out of the army, and they met at a dance or some sort of a social greeting or whatever they had then. And that was back in Michigan. Was he working for the United States Army? Mm-hmm. Yes? Yes, mm-hmm. And they stayed in Michigan from there on? Yes, they stayed in Michigan. Have you any other places where you’ve lived or even traveled or anything in your lifetime besides Michigan and Las Vegas? California, we’ve been to California. And I’ve been in Indiana (unintelligible). Well, with my leg I’ve had to go quite a few places. Your leg. How did you lose your leg? An automobile accident. Is that in Southern Nevada? No, that was in Michigan. I was fifteen. Oh, I see. I was just a kid. And I had my legs hanging out the window and we had a flat tire and slammed up against the tree. And I got the one leg in and the other leg I didn’t, and the door handle went UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 12 right through it. Mm. It just severed it. The whole foot. And it got gangrene and they just chop, chop, chop, chop, chopped until it was up above the knee where I could wear an artificial leg, and I’ve had it since then, since sixteen. But it never bothered any part of me. I had three boys (laughs). That’s good. Do you have any specific history of illnesses in your family, at all? Any diseases in your family? My father died of cancer. He contacted cancer and that has been, five years ago. But he was up in age, he was getting up there. Seventy-some. But that is the only one I know. I know my one uncle had tuberculosis, but he’s still living. And the rest of my family, fine. Do you have any special interests? Like to keep you busy at all. I paint. Like I’ll get these (unintelligible) pictures—. And I’ll paint. Or I do it freelance, I draw. I try. Have you had any special goals in your life that you wanted? Or, you know, keep points in your life of what you want to do at all? Have you achieved them? I think I’ve achieved most of ’em. My boys are married. How many boys do you have? Three. Three. And are married, they have children. I have grandchildren. Are they all living in Southern Nevada? Yes, they’re all living here. In Clark County, Las Vegas? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 13 Mm-hmm. And working here. I think it’s wonderful. The youngest one works with Don, as a car salesman. He’s starting to work. Don’s your husband, right? Mm-hmm. Right, yes. I see. And the youngest one, Steve, is working with him selling cars. Which makes him very happy, makes Don very happy. Well, I guess that’s an achievement for him. Yes. But the other two boys are bartenders. I see. At the Guys and Dolls. Oh, yes. Guys (unintelligible) at the Aladdin Theater? Is that right? They’re allowed there once thirty (laughs). They’re allowed there when they’re thirty? In Guys and Dolls. It’s a little club, it’s a little cocktail lounge and they’re both bartenders (unintelligible). Oh, Guys and Dolls is a—? It’s a little bar. Is it on the Strip? No, it’s over in that shopping center—. The Boulevard I think it’s called. Is it the Boulevard? Right down here? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 14 Yes, I believe. On Maryland Parkway? Yes. Yes. There’s a little place in there and it’s called Guys and Dolls, and they’re both bartenders. One works—well, I guess they’re both working nights now. I see. So was gambling important or a major recreational activity for you or for anybody in your family at all? Gambling? Did you guys do a lot of gambling in your family? Oh, no. The only gambling that I ever did, quite a bit when I worked, I would get out of work and play keno. You like to play keno? Oh, yes. (Unintelligible) like if you live here and have been here, you have the same numbers you play or that same ticket that you play. It was a four-way-nine, is what they called the ticket. A four-way-nine where you group your four numbers in your groups to have—. But I won on it several times. The highest, I think, was two thousand. You won two thousand dollars one time? Yes. It was the most wonderful thing. Was that a long time ago? Yes, I guess it was quite a while ago because I was working. I got out of work at eleven o’clock and I went down and played the ticket. So this was probably about fifteen years ago? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 15 Yes, yes. Did you have a certain place where you went to play? Yes, we went to the Horseshoe Club. The Horseshoe, is that like the same Horseshoe it is today? Mm-hmm. And I went down there and I played that ticket. I cashed my check Thursday night and I went over and I wrote the ticket, because I had been writing the same ticket. Everybody, all the dealers, knew what my numbers were. And so they had my ticket all written out and everything. And I walked back and I sat down. I glanced up at the numbers, I looked and my numbers were coming in. Probably get a five, yes. (Laughs). So I just sat there and didn’t pay any attention. And then pretty soon one of the dealers, the one dealer that always wrote my tickets, he yelled, “Ellen! Do you see those? You got that ticket in.” Oh, wow. (Unintelligible). So you were pretty excited about that? I couldn’t even walk up there. What did you do with all the money you won back then? Paid all my bills (laughs). Two thousand dollars was probably more than enough to pay your bills, wasn’t it? It was, well you think about then we were buying a house and that payment had to be paid and then all the other bills. And everybody got a lot of clothes. Two new bicycles. Three new bicycles. And things for the car, and a bunch of things that needed being done. Do you and your family, or your family, have any other like activities that they did? You UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 16 know, like driving around or watching television or something? Sports or anything like that? Anything specific that you can tell me. My husband is a great sports fan. If there’s anything going on, like if they’re having a championship game, he tries to go to all the sports. Television, that’s all he watches. Like Sundays, Saturday or Sunday, or the Sundays he has off, he’ll sit here and, if there’s football, basketball, any sports, he watches all sports. Very interested in sports because the sports section of the paper is always his. That’s all he reads (laughs). I’m reading the rest of it, and he’s reading all the sports. But if there’s anything on television, sports, boxing, any kind of sports, he watches them. And the boys do too, they’re interested. I guess they got it from him. I see. Now you were married when you came here, right? Yes. Did you have your kids before you came here? Yes. All three of them? Mm-hmm. Did they go to high schools around here? Yes, Robin went to Valley. Valley High School? I think it was Valley. And the other two went to the same? I think so, because he—but now they’re all out and about and have kids. Did any of them go to university at all? Nope. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 17 They didn’t. I see. How long have you lived here? Right here in this apartment. In this one? Pardon me. Gee, we’ve been here—was this the Marriott. Because we were living in the one that they tore down, they were right behind Main Street there. The shopping center, right across and it was the next street because I could look right out the—. Do you remember the name of it? I can’t remember. It was the same place. The New York Continental Apartments? Yes, mm-hmm. I see. You’ve lived here for about a year? Yes. Do you remember, or can you describe, any of the changes in (unintelligible) Southern Nevada? Like in the Strip or, you know, economic changes? Things, more buildings coming up and all those sorts of things. Yes, we can remember all of them. Pardon me, all the—like the new one. That big one that’s on that side of the Strip. It’s that great big one—. Caesars Palace? Yes, that was first starting—. How long ago was that? Like, was it barren at first? Was it fairly barren? Yes, that was all—there were buildings there, but most of it was barren. That one place, like that had a little kiddy merry-go-round, it was like a kiddy-land deal. Behind the one casino, or is that the Old Ranch? I’m not sure. Or it goes out further. And they had a merry-go-round, Ferris wheel, rides for kids. Because I UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 18 know my kids were there every Saturday. And they had the games, the shoots and all that sort of thing. They’d go there instead of going to the movie half the time. They wouldn’t go to the movie, they’d rather go out there and spend the afternoon out there. Just shooting, doing this or doing that, riding down the slides. And I think then they were a nickel. They charged a nickel to rife on these things, or a dime, to ride on the swings and the slide, and all this that and the other thing. So there they had a whole day they could spend out there. Was this right on the Strip? Mm-hmm. And then from there on like the buildings started coming up and gambling started getting bigger? Mm-hmm. You know, just since I’ve been sick, so many things have taken the place of something else. (Unintelligible) Don will drive me out and, “Oh, isn’t that where What’s-its-Name used to be?” and “Didn’t they have something there?” Oh yes, he said, “Ellen, that’s been gone a long time ago.” And here’s something new built, and this and that and the other thing. It is just expanded, even Strip. I mean, the places, to me, they’ve enlarged ’em, they’ve made ’em bigger. New people have ’em. We used to go to a supper club, the Old Ranch Supper Club. Steaks, they had the most delicious steaks. The filets they had. And we would go out there and have dinner out there. I’m telling you. And the price, you just couldn’t believe it. I said, “Is that all? Really?” And you would go in and have a couple of drinks and your dinner. When about was this? Was this a long time ago? Yes, this is a long time ago. Fifteen, twenty years ago? Oh, yes. When we first came here. And that Old Ranch, the steak. UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 19 The Old Ranch, was that the name of a place? The Old Ranch they called it. It was a supper club. And, oh my God, the filets they had (kiss). They were just out of this world, and they had a cook, somebody there, that could bake banana cream pies and the cakes and the things, oh. The cooks were good? (Whistles). Did you know anybody specifically that owned it? No, Don went before I got here. I guess he went out there, someone told him at work, and they all went out there for a party one night. They were having a party or something, it was around the holidays, and they were having a party. They were all having steaks, this and that. He said, “Ellen, this is the place you will love. I’ve got to take you here.” So we went out there. I ate for two hours, I didn’t think I was ever going to finish that steak. And I’d be damned if I let them take it back. I said, “Oh, I’ve never seen anything like it.” Because it had the whole flavor, you know, it was delicious. All their pastry was homemade and it was great. (Tape one ends). So you really like the town of Las Vegas, then? I think it’s the greatest place there is. I wouldn’t change, I really wouldn’t. Relatives come out here to visit and my brother, he came out, and he stayed. He still lives here now? No, he stayed for about a year. Worked and he went back. How could you go back? To Michigan? Mm-hmm. And he said, “I just don’t like this high town living.” He calls it a high town. It’s too much for him, eh? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 20 Well he tried. We lived in Detroit and he came there and got a job. And he went right back. He didn’t stay six months, and he went right back to Sturgis, which is, like I say, the one-horse town. Now he’s in a little town twenty-two miles away, Coldwater, Michigan. But it’s just like Sturgis, it’s all the same. Coldwater, they have—those towns back there are like Sturgis. And then they have ten miles further down there’s another little town, and then ten miles further on they have another little town. Their towns are just like ten miles apart. Like out here it would be the suburbs. Yes, right. But back there it’s all (unintelligible) little town. Well, that’s the way they like to live. Close at two o’clock, like all your places are closed. All the drinking places close at two o’clock. I mean, that’s a law. And you better not be open after that or sell anything after that. Up at six o’clock in the morning, go to work. The same daily routine. So you’ve pretty much seen Las Vegas grow? Like it’s been growing a lot all of those years, has it been an interesting experience? Have you enjoyed living here all these years? Oh, yes. I think it’s tremendous. It’s not very enlightening, you know, because every day somebody new is starting or they’ve changed or something new has happened. And that makes it so much more interesting. It’s not the same old politics, same old blah blah every day. Yes. This guy is new and this guy did this and this one did that. I think it makes life more interesting than you pick up the paper “Old Mayor What’s-his-Name did it again” or “Chief What’s-his-Name did it again.” Yes. Have you noticed a lot about inflation? Just, you know, or the high cost of living here? Has it gone up in your point of view or is it not so bad to you? UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 21 I think it’s gone up since we’ve been living here. Things in that line have changed. Even, you know, you go to the grocery store and you just look at the prices, something like a sack of flower or something like that, the things have gone up so much. But then you turn right around and you walk into a casino and nothing’s gone up. Yes, that’s true. (Laughs) Except the skirts. That’s true. So the only environmental changes you noticed, I guess, is all the buildings going up (unintelligible)? The growing of it, I’ve noticed. Here in Las Vegas, I’ve noticed the attitude of people have changed. They aren’t as friendly. The people aren’t as friendly? Uh-uh. They aren’t as friendly as way back, you know, when we first came here. Their attitude seems to have changed. It seems like it was a much closer—you know, more friendly. It was more friendly when you first came here? Yes. You think the people are withdrawing themselves more or less than other people? Yes, right. Because now, back then you couldn’t into any place—before you left, you knew the owner, all the bartenders, the cocktail waitresses, everyone. You knew everyone by the first name. And they knew you when they saw you even if it was on the street. Now, I’ve been here this many years and I went down there, well of course I’ve been sick and I’ve changed, but they don’t even know you anymore. They look right through ya. You think it’s grown to be too big? Yes, I think it’s too fast. I think that’s it. I don’t think it’s too big, because they always knew it UNLV University Libraries Ellen Lempe 22 was going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. But I think it’s too fast, it’s not done gradually, it’s like bloom bum boom, leaps and bounds. It’s, you know, all the places just, “This place has to be bigger and better.” And it’s gone too much, gone over. Where before you knew everybody. I see. Like you see them once and you’re walking down the street and, hell, they’d yell from a block away, “What are you doin’? You better get your butt down here tonight.” And now, you walk by ’em, “I used to know her, now who is she?” It’s like—. Yes. Who cares? Well, thanks very much Mrs. Lempe. You bet. I was wondering, would you be willing to participate in a longer interview if you were asked? Well I think all I had to say has been said (laughs). Okay, thanks very much. (Tape two ends)