Transcript of interview with Howard E. Hollingsworth by Joseph Concannen, February 23, 1979

UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth i An Interview with Howard E. Hollingsworth An Oral History Conducted by Joseph Concannen Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth iv Abstract On February 23, 1979, collector Joseph Concannen interviewed educator, Howard E. Hollingsworth (born October 3rd, 1927 in Preston, Idaho) in J. D. Smith Junior High School in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview covers the history of Nevada. Mr. Hollingsworth also discusses the Mormon Fort, ranches, and the railroad. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 1 The informant is Mr. Howard E. Hollingsworth. The date is February 23rd, 1979, at 2:10 P.M. The place is J. D. Smith Junior High School. 1301 East Tonopah, Las Vegas, Nevada. The collector is Joseph Concannen, 1373 Santa Anita, Apartment C, Las Vegas, Nevada. Project is the Local History, Oral Interview, Life of a Las Vegas Old-Timer. Okay. You were saying yesterday about the—talking about the old Mormon Fort. I just wonder if you can describe that to me, again, and—? Okay. Brigham Young, when he entered the Salt Lake Valley this was all a territory, all through here, including Oregon clear down through. And California of course was part of Mexico at the time. Mm-hmm. And when he entered Salt Lake, he wanted to populate the whole western part of the United States. So he sent some Mormon people down to the Las Vegas area, where they built this fort for their protection. And they lived here, worked with the Indians and preached their doctrine among the Indians. And at that particular time there were a number of the Indian tribes in this area and they used to have the artesian well that ran down where Washington Street is today. And right above Washington is where the Mormon Fort was. So the artesian well ran right there by the fort. Right. So they could have constant water. And they used to run out and flood the whole area down here, where they used to cut the—it was Lucerne or alfalfa as they call it today. And they used to put that up for their stock. And the Mormon Fort was built right there so they’d have access to the water, plus food for their cattle—and protect themselves. And there was a period of time known as the Utah—in history, known as the Utah War. At that time Brigham Young called back the UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 2 Mormon Pioneers and they left the fort of course and moved back into the other areas. And from then on other area—people came in the area, and used the fort and used the artesian wells and the—the alfalfa, in that area. Now it’s deteriorated now. Yes. Until all they have left of the Mormon Fort is the one up in what’s known as Lion’s Park, at the present time, just off, outskirts against the Las Vegas Boulevard North. North? Okay. And that’s—that’s how the Mormon Fort came into existence here. Okay. You said there’s a—you said there’s a difference between the Old Ranch and the Mormon Fort, true? Okay, now, after—after that happened, different individuals came in here. And you’d have to look up in the county history and I used to know it all. But I’ve forgotten a number of it, the brief history of the county. Other individuals came in at that time. Different ranchers, and they built a ranch house right where the Elks Lodge is now. And they had their ranch house there. And then, over here in North Las Vegas, there’s—it’s known as the Kyle Ranch, today. There was the two ranchers there. One of these men that came in was known as Mr. Gass. G-A-S-S. And if you will go through Las Vegas you’ll see Gass Street. It was named after him. Mm-hmm. And what he did, he organized the Indian tribes and paid them so much money to help put up all of this hay that this artesian well flooded. And they used to cut the hay, and haul it in, and then, many, many pioneers went through here, especially Gold Rush time. Yes. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 3 And after that to establish California after it became a state—part of the United States, anyway. And during that particular period of time we used to sell and say, and let them stay over and they ate and fattened up their cattle for the one last final drive over into California. And Gass is quite an interesting character if you read the background of all of the things he did. But that was an accomplishment he—well, I thought that he was outstanding. At one time, there’s a story I remember telling these stories to summer camps when I used to handle the young boys here. Mr. Gass—there was an Indian uprising and so he got spooked that they were going to get him, too. So he left the area and after quite a few months, he decided it all calmed down. He came back. The same Indians were still putting up the hay, waiting for him to return to get their money. Yes. (Laughs) To sell the hay to the pioneers coming through the valley. This whole valley—the word Las Vegas means the meadows. I don’t know whether you were aware of that. No. I— The name itself, the meadows. And the reason it was called the meadows is because of this artesian well and all of that alfalfa growing, all down through there. Oh yes? On a good year with lots of water, of course, many, many more acres were growing. And on a cooler year, it reduced because of the heat. But this is an extremely fertile valley for alfalfa. The farms now out towards the dump area produced eight crops or nine crops an acre here. So, crops, when I mention that, they cut it, put it out, and then they get another cutting. Okay. And—? They get eight or nine cuttings, sometime—with the—with the alfalfa here. So it’s a very, very good valley for alfalfa. It’s high in alkali and alfalfa does pretty well unless the alkali is too high. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 4 Yes. So it’s very productive area, especially for the alfalfa. Are you familiar with the—the Stewart Ranch? You know what I’m talking about? Is that one of the old ranches you were just mentioning? It’s one of the old ones but I’m not as well acquainted with the Stewart Ranch as I am with the Kyle Ranch. Let me tell you a little bit about that if that’s alright. Okay. Yes. Kyle Ranch, the man came out and built the ranch house and he brought a lady here from the east, and she was a lady in every respect. A very dainty, feminine, sweet young thing. Mm-hmm. And she got out here and all the heat and all, she was quite desperate. She didn’t know whether she wanted to stay. Finally, she decided that this was her home and they built this Kyle Ranch over in the North Las Vegas area. If you look at that, they have a double ceiling. Now having a double ceiling, as they did, this reduced the heat so it wouldn’t be so terrible during the summer times. I understand they used to—also, with the, get sheets wet and hang them around the beds. Oh really? So that—any air circulation at all— Keep them cool. Would help cool them. Well, he and another rancher got in an argument and they had a shootout just like you read about and see in movies. And they went and got together and they pulled their guns and Mr. Kyle was killed. This lady, Mrs. Kyle, got her team of horses over there, and took one of the doors off the house, inside door and put it on the buggy, went out and this little petite lady who was so dainty and all, got her dead husband up unto the door, slid the door unto the UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 5 buggy, went back. And when I was giving the lectures and talking about the Kyle Ranch, it still had a little split log fence around the cemetery there. And it showed the headstone of mister—of the man of the house, and the lady of the house. Now it’s called Kyle Ranch now. I better be careful, that may not be the Kyle family but eventually the Kyle’s did inherit that ranch. But the ranch house was built by these—this man that I’m talking about and his lovely wife. And they—they buried them there. Now they used to sell, as the stories go—they had trees, mulberry trees there. And they—they used to use the—had the kind that had the fruit, the actually mulberries on them. Now nowadays in our town, we have the fruitless mulberries but they used to have the fruit kind. Plus they had grapes. When I was there giving lectures they had rows and rows of grapes and all types of trees. They used to take these mulberry off the trees and would squeeze the juice out and make mulberry wine. The Indians used to come in and buy the wine. They used to like that firewater. (Laughs) That wine. The mulberry wine. And they—and the cellars still there today. They built it. They dug a deep cellar. And then, they had adobe, which is made from mud mixed. And some of the walls were maybe as—even on this little cellar, were as thick as two feet. Or really? And then, they had a house on—a little small house on top of that or small outfit you know, on top of—of this cellar. And they used to have the wine down in this cellar. One day one of these Indians got in a fight and an argument with the owner of the ranch and he shot at him, on the porch of Kyle Ranch, as the story goes. It’s a very colorful history. Kyle Ranch was sold to a number of different people. At one time, movie stars used to come up here and they used to have little cabins all along the side of Kyle Ranch, which isn’t there now. And they used to have two UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 6 swimming pools. Now they originally were built to irrigate all of that area for their trees and their gardens, and all of the shrubbery and all of that. But then when all these people, movie stars used to come up there and have parties there at the Kyle Ranch, they then established them as places for swimming. And they had two swimming pools there—swimming pools. They were made out of cement and they were there when I used to give these lectures to these young people. And that was about twenty, nineteen or twenty years ago. Mm-hmm. And those pools were still there at that time. In fact, North Las Vegas cleaned them and tried to put water into ‘em so we could swim in them. But they could never get them to the point where they could pass the sanitation test. So we were not allowed to do swimming in those pools. But they had the—it became the center of all of the glamorous activity of anybody in town that was anybody, for a period of time, after—after this woman passed away. Would that be the one that Howard Hughes was—was he involved in it? I— Oh yes. I can’t answer that. Oh really? I don’t know whether Howard Hughes was involved in that particular—now, if you mean just lately, he was involved in the Cruck Ranch. The Cruck? Which—yes, which was out towards Red Rock Canyon, out to the left of Red Rock Canyon. He—I understand, that’s the area, that he owned the Cruck Ranch. Now the Cruck people are industrials from Germany—very, very wealthy. And they built this, bought this huge ranch, and UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 7 then, Howard Hughes bought that, probably ten years ago, about, from them. And I think since then they have sold—I’m not sure—they might have sold it since then. Okay. Moving to a little different subject more recent, I guess, how would you feel—how do you feel about the changes in education here? The changes in education. I think that we are not meeting the needs of the children today. And I don’t know how we can change it at the present time because of our (unintelligible) tax structure, and the amount of money that comes into our—our school systems. And let me explain why I feel we’re not meeting the needs. I think we’re in a horse and buggy—we are still in the horse and buggy period of time with the jet age or jet set age, group of children. When—when I was younger, we used to have a few children that had some emotional problems. Today, of the schools I’ve been involved with, I think that twenty-five to thirty percent of the children have emotional problems. Mm. In this town, we’re in a—quite a—affluent society, and we have people from all over the world here. Mm-hmm. Entertaining or coming to be entertained. And as a result, we don’t have the stability that the little towns used to have, like Preston, Idaho, where I was born. As a result, the children are emotionally disturbed. Mother’s working as a cocktail waitress all night long. Dad is running a truck someplace to bring food in for some company. And as a result, the children don’t have what I would consider a proper home life. And I think the home life is the number one situation that makes for a good student. As a result of the—our way of life here, working night and day, UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 8 and so on, and the fact that the, the expenses that we have nowadays, it nearly takes two to have—two salaries to make enough money to seem to make ends meet. Yes. This is causing the emotional problem with our children, I believe. We have some little children that come in that are hungry. Some little children don’t know where their father or mother are, sometimes. Sometimes they come here to get divorced, so there’s only one parent and she’s working two jobs to take care of the children. And as a result, there are very emotional children, and need extra help. As I mentioned, twenty-five to thirty percent in some of the schools, I would say, have an emotional problem. We should have social workers, sociologists, psychologists, smaller classroom situation, for these emotional problems. Because a child that comes here wondering what’s going to happen at home tonight can’t sit and learn his times tables. Yes. As a result I feel that we definitely need to change our educational system. The system is alright for the child who does not have an emotional problem. Yes, who wants to apply themselves, uh-huh. Right. Who wants to apply himself and do something about that, but (unintelligible) has an emotional problem so he can’t apply himself and if he’s in trouble. So this is causing, I think, a lot of our problems. And as I mentioned, I don’t believe the taxpayers at this point are ready to come up with more taxes. In fact, they just put through proposition Six, which is going to reduce taxes. And—what I’m talking about, to meet the emotional needs of these children, it would cost tremendous amounts of money. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 9 Some of ‘em in spite of their situation, do make it. But many of them don’t. And as a result, it’s ‘gonna multiply and we’ll have more of a problem in the next generation than we do this generation. So I feel that is behooves all of us to try to correct the problem now, rather than wait until it multiplies even more. And then—and then, I don’t know where it will all end, if we don’t—take care of the emotionally disturbed child. You feel that because you have to work with the emotionally disturbed, that it’s holding back the other ones from reaching a higher level? Yes. There’s no question that the better students suffer to some degree along with the poorer students, even though we have levels of ability. If we have a child in there that’s brilliant but emotionally disturbed, we might take more time to handle him some given days than we do teaching the class, in the junior high level especially. And this is a hindrance naturally, to the educational process. And the pressure is so great that in many cases some of our very good teachers leave and get into a different profession. Because the pressure’s too great to handle the situation that they are in. It might—I know they do this in some of the schools in the nation. It might be wise to establish a particular junior high in this case, centrally located even possibly J. D. Smith. And then, put the emotionally disturbed children in—in one school, so the rest can really go. Yes. And do great. Yes. And this has been done in some situations. But it must have its drawbacks, too. So they haven’t tried to—that particular type of situation here in Clark County. But there’s—there’s no way to get like a class, a special class for ‘em? Or? UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 10 Well, unless they meet the standard of being emotionally disturbed to the point that we put ‘em in Special Ed. (Unintelligible) We do not have a special class. But that’s—that’s not really what you’re talking about. That’s— You’re talking about a kid under a lot of stress, right? Yes. Under a lot of stress. You’re not filling the need. And one that does not meet the— Yes. Special Ed. Qualifications. Yes. But he’s still emotionally disturbed. Yes. He’s ‘gotta be. Because of the situation that he come from. Yes. Oh, I know, you’re Mormon, right? Right? Ah. (Unintelligible)? I happen to be Mormon, yes. Oh. Well, I was just wondering if you could tell me a little bit about—well, as I understand, I’m—I’m not, you know, too far up on it, but the Mormons settled Las Vegas, right? Yes. That’s what I understand. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 11 Okay. You really can’t tell me anything from the—? I—I. Inside of the religion? Religions part is what I’m trying to—? Okay. Think back to. One of the reasons the Mormons settled this area was to—Mormons preach their doctrine wherever they go. They send missionaries everywhere to teach others about the Mormon doctrine. It is a missionary church. Currently we have many, many thousands. And I’m not sure of the exact figure but like thirty thousand, forty thousand, something like that. Mm. Missionaries in the field, currently. One of the—one of the reasons of coming down here, besides settling the territory, was to teach their doctrine. And they did teach some of the Indians or the others coming through some of their doctrine, for, to see if they could baptized them. They also—very interestingly, a hundred and twenty-five miles from here in Saint George, they tried silkworms and they eat the mulberry leaves, I think it is. Yes. And they tried silkworms to get the silk to weave it. And of course, if they had been successful there in Saint George it would have probably been expanded here, as well. But one of the reasons would be to—to present and establish the Mormon faith and doctrine here in this community. And one of the older, old churches here is a Mormon Church. Yes. Yes. It’s up there by— It’s in— UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 12 Las Vegas High. And it’s known as the first ward in the Mormon faith. First ward in our area here. And it is quite an old church and before that when they had a—a wooden church and some other religion brought that and moved it over on Eastern, their original church (unintelligible) Mm-hmm. So the Mormon did settle this area. Oh, I, very interesting story, too, they also went up into the hills here, and they—they established Potosi Mine. And originally they—in Potosi, they were digging lead to make into bullets to protect themselves. And they didn’t work out very well. These bullets wouldn’t do what they expected them, too. And we found out many, many years later that they were like the lone ranger. They had so much silver in them. Oh really? (Laughs) That it was difficult to shoot them. So they were shooting the silver bullet like the lone ranger. Huh. When they’d shoot. And the hardness of the silver, in comparison to the lead, made them not as accurate as they wanted them to be. Or they didn’t make as good of bullets. I don’t know whether (unintelligible) Do you have any names that I—I can’t—what I was wondering is, how come Wiley would come down here, as just word of mouth got back to him that there was an area down here? Or did they actually have missionaries that came out and—and found them? Okay. The Mormon people moved into all of the area of the west, clear into California. And they established themselves all across the area and they of course reported back to Brigham Young, some of the areas here. Now you have Kit Carson, and John C. Fremont, and some of these other early explorers knew of this area. And as the Mormons came through, they came through here UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 13 and realized the value of this area too along on people moving to the west into California. So they settled here for some reason on that, as well. Settlings half the trip. But I—but it’d be difficult now if I knew you were going to get deeper into that I could have; would’ve gotten names of the Mormons settlers, originally, and some of the things that they accomplished and I wasn’t aware you were going to get into the religious part, right. Maybe now I’ll do a little research on it. But it was—it was more or less after—didn’t Fremont—he mapped out this area, didn’t he? Yes. To make a (unintelligible) or something? Yes. John C. Fremont, that’s where Fremont Junior High was named after him. Mm-hmm. We have Fremont Street. He married a senator’s daughter. And explored all through the western part of United States. Took back maps and information and this was used by the senator to present to the Congress of the United States. And he became quite famous. Mm-hmm. Because all his exploring in this area. So it was after that, that they—? Okay. Yes. It was Fremont that the Mormon pioneers moved in here. Mm-hmm. I don’t know the exact dates on—on Fremont. But the Mormon pioneers started expanding immediately after eighteen forty-seven. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 14 Oh really? Went into Salt Lake. So it was between there and years later that they started expanding all through the west. Do you know much about the outlaws at that time, then? Again, I’m sorry that I didn’t do a little research on this. ‘Cause I—I. Oh, I remember one Indian one, yes. If you would go up in the Valley of Fire, there’s a place up there that’s called, oh, I can’t even remember his name—anyway, this Indian used to go into Saint George and other places all through the west here and down into Virgin Valley into Logandale, and all through the Mormon settlements, and he would steal their cattle and steal from their gardens for—so he could have food to eat and so on. And then, he’d take off and he’d go across to Colorado River back and forth, and he used—he went in the Red Rock area. They’d always chase him in the Red Rock area. And if you’ve been there, it’s a very hot, desolate area. And most difficult to travel around in. But they’d lose him there. And then, awhile later, out he’d come again, and rob from all of the settlements and then move back in there again. And finally, they found where he had been hiding. And this Indian had, had a place, and I forget the name of it there—where all the rain would run down into each time it would rain, and that’s where—he’d settle in that area and stay there, and hide his horse, and feed it in that area. And then, he had the water he needed, and then he take in his food and take care of himself until he’d go out and raid again. And it was many, many years later before they finally discovered where he’d gone into hiding. Do you know what kind of Indian he was? I don’t know which tribe he belonged to. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 15 Oh (unintelligible) But he was a—I considered an outlaw. Eventually, I believe he’s the one that they shot crossing the Colorado River. I think they finally did track him that far and they shot him as he was coming across the river. But—I don’t—I don’t know if you were familiar with this but I understand that, that’s what, Las Vegas was first used by the outlaws as a means—as an oasis type. Yes. Skip cross the desert there. I remember another place, too. You see, the state of Nevada, the title on the map is, Battle Born. Because we were involved in the civil war. You’re probably aware of that. And they wanted another state to swing the balance of voting power. And on October or Halloween, they sent this huge telegram in for our constitution and it became a state on Halloween. Now they used to take the silver out and bring it down through this part of the country to take to—to fight the battle, to pay for the battles they were fighting. And they—there’s a place called Robbers Roost. Now have you been there? No. I have never been there. Okay. Between Kyle Canyon and Lee Canyon, there’s a road that goes up over the top into there. And right as you get on top there’s a place called Robbers Roost. And you—you, there’s trails there, currently. And you can go back up through that area and there’s huge caves back in there. And that’s where the robbers—that’s why they call it Robbers Roost used to stay. And when the stage would be coming down, they’d come down out of Robbers Roost, go out and hit this silver and then go back up in Robbers Roost. Was that—? UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 16 That’s the story that circulated from that area. Was that sort of a place that they had so many outlaws that the law was actually afraid to go anywhere near it? In some cases they were. Now in the western part of the United States this isn’t—probably in the Las Vegas area or Nevada area, but there of course, Bush Cassidy and Sundance Kid. They were real, real figures. And they were up in the Utah area. And some of the people are still alive today that were children at that time who remember those two outlaws. And you know the story says that they were killed down at—I believe it was Bolivia or something like that. They died of natural causes up here in someplace in Utah. They—they weren’t shot. Oh really? As the movie depicts. And then, of course we had many outlaws up in the—all around this area. And they were going into some of these badlands, as they were referred to. Some of the areas like this Indian I was talking about. And when they survived but I don’t know the names of the gangs, I could’ve researched them. (Laughs) That Indian, let me see here, we was talking about one today. Could that be Walcotta? That could be. Walcotta? Now what was the place that he—that he? He was a Yute. And—but I really didn’t get into him being around here but he teamed up with—you ever heard of Thomas “Peg Leg” Smith? Oh yes. That’s another name that you read about. Oh okay. Jim Beckwith? UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 17 That I’m not sure of. He was—he was a Black man. Yes. And Old Bill Williams? And I—I’m not familiar with those. I just happen to hear about them today. They were some kind of a raiding party, they’d raid on California. Uh-huh. Yes. And then, come back into this area to survive. Mm-hmm. They—yes, and that’s why they call it the Outlaw Rouse or whatever. Yes. They’d come to Las Vegas and they’d more or less lose the Mexican brigade going after them. Huh. What they—(Laughs) what they did was, they sent the Black man in to tell ‘em that the big caravan was coming. ‘Cause they used to have a lot of trade, in the California area. So everybody brought their horses and they’d come in (Laughs) and they stole all the horses and took off, you know, on that—on that trail, you know. (Unintelligible) going out in the desert and they’d chase them out there and they would branch off, getting rid of the slower horses and the slower men. You know, they’d branch off. And pretty soon all they had was the best riders with the best horses Oh. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 18 Had to keep (unintelligible) Leading them on. They’d just—yes, they’d—they’d never catch up. Yes. No, this whole area was a—I guess a very fascinating outlaw area. It was a rough and tumble part of the country. Okay. You said you were born in Idaho? Yes. And so, is that where you were living before you came here? Yes. Or (unintelligible)? I lived there twenty-six years. And then you moved here in ’55? Yes. Or something like that? Uh-huh. ’55, mm-hmm. And you—now that’s, well, how did you start? Were you—? Did you start giving lectures? Or did you start as a teacher? Or? Okay. How was it? I—I was head teacher up in Idaho, head teacher of a two-room school house. Alright. I drove a bus. I was the janitor. I hired a lady for the hot lunch program, for the state. Checked the meals over and filled out all the forms and so on. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 19 (Laughs) It was very interesting situation. Along with that I owned a farm. I had milk cows. We raised peas and grain, sugar beets, and hay for the cattle. I did custom cutting, of wheat and corn. I had a chopper as well as a harvester. And with all of that I made a little bit more than I would if I moved to Las Vegas the first year as a teacher. Really? So I was teaching and doing all those other things and by moving here, I made a little bit less than doing all that work in Idaho. So I felt I better come down here for better opportunities. In my second year here, I made more money than I did with all of those jobs in Idaho. While I was in Logan, I was contacted by a person that had already signed a contract down here and said, and told me about the good opportunities. So I wrote for an application from the school district, while I was working on—starting on my master’s degree at Logan, Utah. How many schools did they have here at that time, about? The high schools, really? Okay. They had—they just built the—they just had Las Vegas High and they just built Rancho High School in 1955. Okay. But anyway, at that time, he said, I’d have a job. So I came down and Rancho High School opened up in 1955. And that was my first assignment, Rancho High School. We had the seventh and eighth grade there at the time. And I taught eighth grade for two years. And then, after that they gave me ninth grade one year. And then, I went into teaching government until I was named principal of John C. Fremont Junior High. And I was there seven years. And five years at Von Tobel Junior High. And then, this, my first year at J. D. Smith. UNLV University Libraries Howard E. Hollingsworth 20 Let’s see, (unintelligible) do you feel that the kids nowadays are less interested in learning because of things like TV and other activities? Or? Than when you first started—in, in this area? I meant by that. Okay. I—I believe that when I first came down here, the people didn’t have as much—more people—more ladies—more mothers stayed home, with their children. And they didn’t have as much money to spend as they have now. And therefore, they probably worked more with their children. As a result, of working more with their children, I think they were much better equipped to handle the schools, than the children of today. I’ve noticed a tremendous change. More lack of a responsibility? Yes. The lack of responsibility. Lack of backing from parents in some cases. Less of the emotional problem that I was talking about earlier. And I think that it was a better situation for teaching. It was a very pleasant experience. It really was a lovely situation. Really? To be teaching. And then, within—it would be about twelve years—so that would be about sixty-two, and I would have to check the exact dates—things changed. We started having racial problems, and major fights and problem from in schools. We had teachers that were rebelling against salary and against the larger classes. And for a few years there we had