Howard Heckethorn interview, February 15, 1979: transcript

UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn i An Interview with Howard Heckethorn An Oral History Conducted by Richard Eitland Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn iv Abstract On February 15, 1979, collector Richard Eitland interviewed Howard Heckethorn (born September 14th, 1922 in St. George, Utah) at Red Rock Elementary School in Las Vegas, Nevada. Mr. Heckethorn discusses going to school in the early days of Las Vegas, Nevada. He also talks about many notable teachers he had, as well as the development of the Las Vegas area. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 5 (Audio begins midsentence)—school in Las Vegas on the 15th of February, 1979 at approximately 3:05 PM with Howard Heckethorn, for an oral interview history by Richard Eitland. Mr. Heckethorn, how long have you lived in Southern Nevada? I have lived here since 1930. Approximately 49 years. Was there any real reason? Have you lived any other place besides? Yes. I was born in St. George, Utah, which is about 130 miles from Las Vegas. Was there any real reason for coming to Las Vegas? Yes. This, as you know, or as we know, that the Depression had just hit. It was 1930 and jobs were a little tough to get in St. George, Utah, so my family moved down to Las Vegas, where Boulder Dam had just started construction. And we figured we could have my father and mother could get a job here. Now did they find employment? Yes, they came down, and my father went to work here on the dam for a while. And my mother went to work as a chamber maid in a hotel. Now how old were you at the time? When we first moved down, I was eight years old. Okay. Was there any things that you really noticed, the landscape of the land, or just in the structure of the city that has changed? Well, when I first came down here in 1930, Las Vegas was about five or six thousand persons. And now it’s—we don’t know, it’s 250,000, maybe 300,000 persons. So it’s grown quite considerably from 5000, 6000 to 250,000. It’s quite a few people. Do you remember the Mormon Fort and the Old Ranch? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 6 Yes. And there was a—I remember the Mormon Fort and there was the place down here, it’s a swimming pool, and it was called the Old Ranch. It’s where the Oaks Club is today. Do you remember any of the distinct features of the fort itself? Yes. Uh-huh. Like, what has changed since—? Oh, in the fort you mean? Yes. (Unintelligible) Oh, I don’t think too much, no. Okay. Now what form of business has had a great effect on the city so far? Well, I think the main one was the tourists. But what brought tourists here, I believe was gambling and Boulder Dam. Now as far as anything other than that, that people who were not into gambling industry got themselves into? Well, of course, during World War II, Nellis opened, and then the atomic energy moved in. And, well, the tourists, atomic energy, the army, I think all those played— During the war, they did—the state did kind of quite a bit of minerals? Just the recreation (unintelligible)? Yes. Yes. And then during the war, Nellis was—it was the Las Vegas gunnery school in those days, and they had several thousand soldiers out there. But you asked about mining. Yes, there was mining in Good Springs and Blue Diamond and Searchlight, quite a few places around Las Vegas. Did that bring a lot of people here? Yes. Quite a few people in those days. It was quite a boost to the economy, yes. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 7 So, during that particular time, did the city expand quite a bit? Not much. It grew a little bit, but then, the city didn’t start expanding until 1946, right after the war. Right after the war in 1946, the city of Las Vegas is about 15,000 persons. And in 1946 till 1979, it had really expanded as you know. But up until 1946, the town—well, when I came was 1930, and we expanded from about 6,000 to about 15,000 in ’46. When I graduated from high school in 1941, which was Las Vegas High School, there were 8,000 persons in Las Vegas. And in those days, Las Vegas High School was the second biggest high school in the state. And they had a walking population of 640 when I was a senior in Las Vegas High School. Do you want me to go on tell you about the high school? Sure. And in the whole county, there were three high schools. There was Las Vegas High School, Moapa High School, and Virgin Valley High School. And they had just started Boulder City High School. And each year, they added a grade on to Boulder City High School. It started—all of Boulder City students came into Las Vegas High School. Then the next, the following year, only three grades came here. Then the following year, two grades came here. Then next year, only one grade came into Las Vegas High School. And then the next year, Boulder City had their own high school. But they didn’t have their high school till 1942 or ’43 I think. What was the—probably the most influential person in education? I believe Maude Frazier was. Now when I was going to high school—well, when I was going to grammar school here in Las Vegas, she was the superintendent of schools, and she was also principal of the high school. Of course, in those days, she was both. She was principal of the high school and superintendent of the schools. And well, as long as I went to school, she was the—she was the main one. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 8 So did she bring quite a few benefits and general programs to the school that helped the whole Las Vegas program? Yes, I think so. I couldn’t just name those programs they were, but I think she did. Was there—the taxes on gambling as legislation really set aside quite a bit of money towards education? Yes. I believe, well, the gambling tax, and the sales tax supported that. I would just guess if I—when I say forces at the university, sixty percent of education is supported by the sales tax and the gambling tax. Then about the other forty percent, I would imagine comes from property taxes. So, has there been an increase, quite a big increase in schools in the area? Well, in 1930 to about 1941, there was one grammar school, and it was the Las Vegas Grammar School, better known as the Fifth Street Grammar School. And then over in the Westside, there was a K-3, and then North Las Vegas, there was a school K-3, that’s kindergarten through the third grade, and there was one high school in this area. And the other three high schools that I mentioned, Moapa Valley, Virgin Valley, and Boulder City. Course in those days, when I graduated from high school, it was 1941 and there was no Henderson. And, like I say, some of the students came into Las Vegas High School. Have you noticed any changes in the people that have moved here, as far as any ethnic (unintelligible)? Oh yes. ‘Course the Mexicans, there’s—we have a big population of Mexican Americans, and we have a big, quite a few Blacks. Now, when I was first came here, when I was in high school, there were only about five or six families of Blacks, and about the same with Mexican Americans. And now, I hear, that the Blacks are about twelve to fifteen pecent and so are the UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 9 Mexican Americans. About twelve to fifteen percent of the population. So there’s been a big increase there. Well, and like you know, and I know, after people from all over the United States move into Las Vegas, a lot of retired people. Have you noticed any sections of town that have been kind of grouped for certain people? Yes. Like, west side is predominately black. When I first moved here, that’s where we all lived. That’s where I first moved when I came here. (Unintelligible) Yes. Has the city changed in—? Yes. When I first came here, the west side and then Downtown, from Main to Fifth Street, that was the town. That was the town in those days. Well, in 1942, when they started building the magnesium plant, they needed a lot of workers, and they needed them fast, so a lot of the blacks came from Arkansas, Louisiana, and the South, up here to get jobs in construction. The pay was good. And where did they move? They moved over to the west side. So they moved over to the west side, and so now, you know, west side is predominately black now, black community. Did the magnesium plant close down? The magnesium plant operated and was making magnesium for everything in those days. It was quite a project from 1942 until the end of the war. Then after the war, they locked up or buttoned up and they didn’t know what to do with it, so finally, they sold it to some of the, some of the companies, the Stockford is one of them there, the Stockford Chemical, and then there’s some other companies out there that bought the buildings and they opened up their own factories or whatever they manufacture. Otherwise they were thinking in 1945 and ’46, they were thinking UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 10 about just closing her down. But Stockford and some of the other—I can’t think of the other companies now—went in and bought those places. So how many other different kind of mineral plants were? Do you remember was there copper probably? There’s manganese. Do you mean around this area? Southern Nevada. Yes. Well, there’s the manganese ore. I think it’s still out there, west of Henderson. And then there was the mines. It was gold and silver and copper all lined up in Good Springs. I have some relatives that live up there now, and always have lived there. Did a lot of the plants close down after the war? Oh yes. And a lot of the mines have been mined out, (unintelligible) those mines. Who do remember as far as being a really influential person in legislation and just controls on gambling and statewide programs? Well, Pat McCarran was our senator. He was the senator for oh, twenty-eight years, I believe. He was quite influential. So was Grant Sawyer, our governor. Now just a few years ago, he put some controls on gambling, set up the Gambling Control Board. Before that time, it used to be the Tax Commission. And he started the Gambling Control Boards. And then another man that was influential was probably Key Pittman. He was the senator from 1912 till he died in 1940. And he was quite influential on gambling and mining. Of course, he was—he first came here from Mississippi, and he landed in Tonopah and worked the mines up there. And then, later, became senator. Wasn’t there quite a bit of mob and gangster involvement in casinos at that time? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 11 Yes. There’s supposed to be. ‘Course, Bugsy Siegel built the Flamingo, which opened January 1st, 1947. And he was supposed to have been a mobster or whatever. And then, there’s been others. Supposedly, Moe Dalitz and Wilbur Clark, and (unintelligible). He’s supposed to be connected with some kind of gambling activities off the coast of Los Angeles, and so was Wilbur Clark. And they all came up here and opened up casinos. When did the Strip really start to (unintelligible)? The Strip used to be Fifth Street, and it was the—it was also Highway 91, or the L.A. Highway as we referred to it. And like the saying goes, there’s a man by the name of Ho, he was out there counting the cars that were coming into Las Vegas. And he decided to build a hotel out there and see how it’d go, and he built the El Rancho in 1941. That was the first hotel, and then the next year, a man back from Texas, or I believe he was from Louisiana, his name was Tex Griffith, he came in and built The Last Frontier. Now The Last Frontier opened in 1942. The El Rancho in 1941, Last Frontier in 1942, then the third hotel opened was the Flamingo, which was opened in 1946, which was New Years. You know, actually it opened about two weeks before 1947, which would make it in December, 1946, but for the record, it opened January 1st, 1947. So did a lot of the city start to move around those casinos when they started to develop? Yes. Then after that, the hotels—it seemed like, opened very rapidly. It would seem like about every few months, another hotel would open. I think the next one after that was the Sahara. It used to be the—there used to be a little club there, Club Bingo. Then the Sahara opened there. And then there were a bunch of hotels all opened about the same time. They were the Dunes, the Royal Nevada, the Riviera. And then when they opened, about six months later, they went broke. And, they got new financing and stuff, and then they reopened. So did the government think that it was pretty good idea to keep gambling going? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 12 You mean the government in Nevada? (Unintelligible) Yes. Times got a little tough in 1962-1963. People thought, well, they were opening up too many hotels, you know, all at once, which I guess, maybe they were. But then Hughes came in, in about 1962-1963, and he started buying these hotels. And he bought the— The Landmark? No, he didn’t start the Landmark. The guy that started the Landmark got it half-finished and he went broke. Then Hughes took over and he finished it. But Hughes first bought the Desert Inn and the Castaways, and the Silver Slipper. I don’t know. That’s just what I—and then after he started buying these hotels, then Vegas started coming back. We had a slight recession just before he started buying these hotels. Then after that, it seemed like Las Vegas started booming again. And it’s been booming ever since. So, the construction really been going on for quite a long time? Yes. It’s been going on for real good since 1946, and each year it seems to get better. So it would really contribute to the welfare of Nevada from things outside of the state. It seems like the war has got a big— The war, (unintelligible) I always referred to it as Boulder Dam, ‘cause that’s what it was, now we refer to it as Hoover Dam. The Dam, Nellis, atomic energy, gambling, and tourists. It’s what keeps this town running. And I’d say with the majority of it, tourists and gambling. So do you have any regrets of moving here? ‘Cause of the fact it’s being centered on gambling? No. I’ve always—I mean, I’ve lived here, and I guess I’ll live here for another, you know, from now on. No, I’ve always liked Las Vegas. I went to the University of Nevada in Reno. I like UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 13 Reno too. And it’s centered on gambling too. But Las Vegas is my home, so after I graduated, I came back down here. Started teaching. Now, you ask how Vegas has grown. Well, we had one grammar school, one high school in Las Vegas, and the one in west side, the one in North Las Vegas. The high school out in the valleys and stuff. Now we have oh what, fourteen, twelve to fourteen high schools, and about seventy grammar schools, which shows quite a growth in the forty-nine years that I’ve been here. Well, do you think that people heard about the way the city was starting to—? Oh yes. How you hear that it’s—you can get jobs here. ‘Cause we know, a lot of people came here to get jobs in construction and gambling and— But did they think that it wasn’t completely—the way it was almost set up, like being a stereotype, bad town, I guess what have you? Oh, I guess a lot of the people who you know, weren’t raised here, think maybe well the town is a little bad. But after they move here and see what Las Vegas is like, I guess a lot of ‘em change their mind. What predominant religious do you see? Well, it’s gotta be Catholic and LDS, or Mormon, as we refer to it. It’s got—those are the two predominant ones, I would say. Catholic and Mormon. Do you see one having more benefits or having a higher standard of living than the other? No. I don’t. No, no. As far as the setup of the city, did it stay centered around one particular place or did it spread out? Well, at first it was right Downtown. That was the—that was Las Vegas. Right Downtown and Westside. That was the town. And then when we started growing, it spread out all over. Now it’s UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 14 spreading everywhere. But at first, Las Vegas was from Main Street on to about Fifth Street, and from about Stewart on the north to about Garcia Street on the south. That was it. ‘Course there was a few places down in North Las Vegas. And of course, that wasn’t a separate town in those days. It didn’t incorporate—North Las Vegas didn’t incorporate until 1941. Like I said, there was no—there was no Henderson until 1942. ‘Course there wasn’t any Boulder City. It started in 1930. So that was—that was the area here. And of course there was Bunkerville, Mesquite, and Overton, and that, and Searchlight. That comprised the Clark County. Now, when did Paradise and Winchester—? They—Paradise and Winchester—they just recently in the last twenty, twenty-five years had well—the town started growing, so they moved out to Winchester and Paradise and out there, As we call it Paradise Valley. What would you consider one of the main controls in gambling that the Strip (unintelligible) Well. (Unintelligible) You know I, I don’t know too much about that. All I know is that they have controls on it. They have a control board, who is appointed I guess by the governor, and tries to control the gambling. We keep it clean, keep the bad elements out. Keep it on, you know, clean going. Mr. Heckethorn, when you moved here, and going through school, were there any teachers or people that did—? Oh, yes. When I first moved down here, I started school in, and of course, I lived in the west side, and I was in the third grade, so I started school at the West Side Grammar School, and it was a K-3 school, and our principal over there, at that time, of course she’s a full time teacher UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 15 and she was principal, was Ruth White. And they have a school named for her, Ruth White Elementary over in back of Western High School. And when I was in the fourth grade, well I went over to town, at fourth grade there. I went fourth through the eighth grade there. And, I’ll name some of the teachers I had. I had Ruby Thomas for Geography, they have a school named for her. K.O. Knudsen was my principal. He was the Fifth Street Grammar School principal. They have a junior high named for him, K.O. Knudsen Junior High. Dwayne Keller was my P.E. teacher. Clara Bell Hanley Decker, she was my English teacher. They have a school named for her. And an interesting thing that happened when I was going to school here in, I believe, the date was May 15th, 1934, the grammar school burned down. And we had about three more weeks of school left that year, so we doubled up into some of the rooms in the other buildings that didn’t burn down, and we finished off that year. And then during the summer, they built tents. And my sixth and seventh grades were, I went to school in tents right over there where—on Fifth Street, between Fifth and Fourth Street, right where the Clark County Courthouse Annex is now. And then while I was in—while we were going to school in tents, they were building the new grammar school. And I happened to be the first class to graduate from the new Fifth Street Grammar School, and I graduated from that in 1937. Then I went into high school, and the principal of the high school was Maude Frazier. Of course, she’s quite prominent. She was superintendent of schools and principal of the high school. And later she became assemblyman, and helped bring UNLV to Las Vegas. Some of my teachers in high school are J. Harold Brimley. There’s a school named for him. Harvey Dondero was my English and Journalism teacher. There’s an elementary school named for him. Walter Long was my History teacher, History and Civics teacher. They have a school named for him. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 16 And Harris, George Harris, was one of my teachers, and they have an elementary school named for him. Now, did the funding that went towards schools, was there a big emphasis on building schools and? Well, like I say, when the grammar school burned down in 1934, they couldn’t, ‘course it was during the Depression, there wasn’t much money then. We couldn’t afford—the county couldn’t afford to build a new school. And we didn’t get a new school until 19—till the fall of 1936, which is two years later. And there’s a lady, Mrs. Lewis, that writes an article for the Sun every Sunday, and a couple weeks ago, she wrote about the grammar school burning down, and it was quite interesting to me. And I believe in there, she said that the new school cost $200,000 or $150,000 or something. I don’t remember. But if it were to be built now, it’d start at a million. But any way it cost, let’s say, it cost $150,000, $200,000. Well, they didn’t have it in those days, so they had to wait a couple years. When was the college built? The college was started after I—I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno in 1951, and I came down here after two years, and I believe, in those days, it was the University of Nevada, Southern Regional Division. It was started in about 1952 or ’53, right along there. It didn’t have any buildings. The first classes were held at the Las Vegas High School auditorium. Then, they would go—they would have classes in different high schools or grammar schools or wherever they could find room to have classes. Then, the first building at the university here was Frazier Hall. Like I said, the school was University of Nevada, Southern Regional Division. And then it was—and then it became Nevada Southern University, and then it was changed to University of Nevada, Las Vegas. I took some—I worked on my master’s out of the university, and up until UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 17 recently, you had to put in one year on the main campus in Reno before you could get your diploma, before you could get your degree. I got my master’s in 1964 from the University of Nevada and we had to get twelve hours on the Reno campus. They didn’t give master’s degrees out here. They didn’t give BA’s or BS’s out here yet, put one year in at Reno. But all that has changed in the last years. I think it was 1968-’69, something like that. But I know that when I was working on my master’s, I was taking—I took about twenty, thirty hours out here, but I had to go down to the Reno campus, take twelve hours. So, because of the school not being around for, up until recently, it wasn’t built, the people that were here were probably middle aged couples with young children? Yes. I know when I went to, when I graduated from high school, I went to go to college, so I—there was none here, so I either had to go to Reno or California, and I went to Reno. But in those days, not many kids went to college. In my class, I think six went. Six went to college and they all went to Reno. Like now, ninety percent of them go to college—no, I know not that high, but seventy to eighty percent go to college, or try, or start it. What did your father do? My father was a rancher mainly. He came down here. Went to work right at first on Boulder Dam, and then he went to work at the slaughterhouse here. (Tape one ends) Okay. Now for the most part, wasn’t ranching a big part of Nevada? Well, I think the main employment for people here at first was the railroad. That’s how Las Vegas got started. Las Vegas was the midpoint between Los Angeles and Salt Lake, and it was a good—it was halfway, it was a good place to get water and to refuel or something. So they built a roundhouse here and this became quite a place for the railroad, and they employed quite a few UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 18 people. And those—there are many, many houses down on First, Second, and Third Street, and Fourth Street in Las Vegas that were railroad houses, originally. And they’re still there today. A lot of them are. A lot of them are being remodeled and made into businesses and stuff. But they’re—at first they were houses for railroad employees. And Las Vegas was a good water place, and they had many artesian wells around here. And I think railroads would have to be one of the main industries of Las Vegas at the beginning. And then of course, Boulder Dam since 1930. Now did things that the railroad did carry, were going towards California? California and Salt Lake and back east. I know a lot of my friends in high school, people I knew, worked for the railroad. ‘Cause it was either work for the railroad, or Hoover Dam, or Boulder Dam as I call it. Now was—did California have (unintelligible) back then? (Unintelligible) Well, California has a real effect on Nevada like, you know, ninety percent of the tourists that come are from there. And California is very, very important to us. Now did a lot of people just move to California and have no thoughts or think about Nevada? Yes, I think so. During the Depression, many, many people moved to the southern end of California, and some of them moved to Nevada. But most of of ‘em went to California. During the Depression, what made the people here in Las Vegas survive is the railroad and Boulder Dam. Otherwise a lot of people I think would just starve around here. Now did a lot of Japanese come in from California (unintelligible)? No. The only Japanese I know of is Tomiyasu. So they were out, what is, off of Paradise Valley. They had a big farm out there. But other than that there were very, very few Japanese here. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 19 Tomiyasu of course, was he, he had a big farm out there, and grew cantaloupes and tomatoes. They named a grammar school for him. By the products that Nevada can grow, don’t they ship in quite a few things from out of state? Well they ship in almost everything. Very few, very little is raised in Las Vegas. Of course, Overton is, Moapa Valley, Virgin Valley, there are quite a few farms up there. We get some things from up there, but very little. So, was that part of the railroad too? (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm. Yes. So, between Reno and Las Vegas, what was probably one of the biggest cities, places that people would’ve gone to, Reno or Las Vegas? Well, in say, fifty years ago, Reno was bigger. And Reno has been bigger than Las Vegas up till about 1955. The 1950 census, Reno was 30,000, Las Vegas was 24,000. But I think soon after that, Vegas passed Reno and since about 1954-55, Las Vegas has been the larger of the two. Is that probably because of recreation? Probably recreation, and weather, and closeness to Los Angeles. See, we’re closer to Los Angeles here in Las Vegas, and Reno’s closer to San Francisco. And more than half the people live right in Southern California. And I’d say the weather too. But Reno’s growing fast too. But Vegas is about twice as big as Reno now. When did they really start construction, as far as in state construction of roads and you know, tourist type (unintelligible)? Oh, I guess about 1960. You mean the freeways and stuff like that? Yes. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 20 Yes. I’d say about 1960. Before that, we had one highway going out to Los Angeles, and it was two-lane most of the way. But then, in the sixties, they got the freeways all the way to Los Angeles. Many a time I’ve gone to Los Angeles, and there’s a two-lane highway all the way. Get behind a slow truck going up the mountains, stop traffic, backed up for ten miles. Now wasn’t there even no speed limit from here to Reno at one time? Never. There was never a speed limit in the state of Nevada until the fifty-five mile an hour speed limit that was passed. It was two years ago. No, four years ago. And California, there was a—the speed limit was sixty-five up until then. In most places, it was sixty-five. But Nevada never had a speed limit until four years ago. Now as far as in town improvement of roads and drains systems, have they been improved? Yes. They’ve been working on that ever since ’55. But there’s a lot more to be done. And like we all know, every time it rains it floods. But they’re working on it, yes. There’s been a lot of drainage and roads and things built since then. So was that quite a problem back in the fifties? When the town was small, it was no problem. It rains or flood out here, it’s flooding the valley, nobody lived there. And Downtown, it didn’t flood much. You know where it floods mostly is around on Charleston and out in the valleys, down in North Las Vegas and (unintelligible). Years ago, it rained so much, that it rained Downtown, it’d be alright. It still doesn’t flood now, Downtown. It’s just on the outside, down on where Fifth and Main meet, and here on Decatur and Charleston underpass. Those places. Do you consider yourself to be in a socially place that would be pretty much normal to any other social environment, as far as benefits? I mean that, Las Vegas is so keen on gambling, UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 21 you would think that maybe there wouldn’t be so many normal, let’s say, community activities or? Well, I’m—I consider myself—I’m not in gambling. I’m a teacher and I’m in the middle of class, is that what you mean? And, socially I’m middle class. So, do you think people that do live here have quite a different attitude towards gambling than people not from here? I think so. Yes. We have grown up with it and we learned to accept it, and it’s our way of life. Now how many people do you think inside town here deal with gambling? Would you know? Oh, heavens. I don’t know. Percentage wise, maybe a fourth. Well, is there any other opinions towards this city as a whole that you would like to relate to me? No. I think that pretty well covers it now.