Transcript of interview with Lawrence Hawley by Andy Sturgeon, March 13, 1981

UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley i An Interview with Lawrence Earl Hawley An Oral History Conducted by Andy Sturgeon Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley iv Abstract On March 13, 1981, Andy Sturgeon interviewed attorney Lawrence Hawley in his office on 302 East Carson Street, Las Vegas, Nevada. The two discuss how Hawley first came to Nevada, as well as his personal family history. Hawley describes Hoover Dam as it was being built, the effects of the Depression on Nevada, and how Las Vegas has grown in size. Hawley also discusses liquor laws and how practicing law has changed since he first moved to Nevada. UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 1 This is Andy Sturgeon taking Attorney Earl Hawley on this day, 3/13/81, in the FM building, FMB building on Third and Carson. Okay so, when did you first move here? I came to Las Vegas in December of 1941. So you’ve been here approximately forty-five, forty-six years? Approximately. I understand that one of your early, earlier relatives was crossed down at present day Las Vegas, back in the early, actually, the late nineteenth century, early nineteenth century? That’s true. I have a relative, Henry Hawley that was a school teacher and he was in the Salt Lake Valley. He lived there for a short period of time, passed through Las Vegas on his way to Fort Apache where he was being (unintelligible). He was one of the first pioneers apparently through the Las Vegas Valley apparently. As near as I can gather from living relatives, about the time when Mormon Fort was built on the Meadows in this area. Amazing. So (unintelligible) he really came through there. I don’t know, I was left to believe that we traveled along forward with one other person. I do remember him making a statement to me that he was concerned about Apaches who were on the up rise at the time. And that he had traveled without incident through the Arizona country side in Fort Apache, much to the alarm of people there, in that they he should’ve had contact with Indians and did not. I see. How old is your grandfather? How old is what? How old was your grandfather when you crossed, the plains? This is not a grandfather. This is my grandfather’s brother. I see. UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 2 My grandfather came over in one of the Mormon trains, they bring them young, settled in the Salt Lake Valley for a very short period of time, and that means that (unintelligible) Okay, so that you, your grandfather’s brother came over in the early nineteenth century, approximately how long—or where did they settle in the Valley? Well, my grandfather, paternal grandfather, never settled in the Las Vegas Valley. He traveled down this direction, how far towards Las Vegas he got, I really don’t know. I do know him and other relatives to have worked in Saint George area, in fact, two of his relations operated a flour mill in Washington, which is a small community just in the north of Saint George. And I do know him to have been in Pinto, Utah. But to have made it directly into the Las Valley, I don’t really know that he did. He spent the majority of his time in and around Fillmore; eventually moving from Fillmore into the Oasis Delta immediately to the west of Fillmore, where he became designer for, and the originator, or the Severe Weather Project, which is the major irrigation project for that portion of Utah. I see. Around what date did they come through (unintelligible), do you have any idea? I don’t know the dates. It’s something—I was too young at the time to be inquisitive and never bothered to pin it down. He, this is an uncle of mine, Henry Hawley has written a book entitled, “100 Years between the Sheathes,” and that book in fact, does cover his journeys into the Fort Apache area, it would be where the dates would be located. Okay so, after that, you self-traveled into the Nevada realm in the 1930’s, that correct? I came, I was born in Salt Lake, in the Holy Cross Hospital, and my parents remained there for two years and then journeyed to Ely, the “Great Depression,” had set upon the United States and the mines in the Ely area were booming. Laborer’s wages in the Salt Lake area were three dollars a day, the laborers wages in the mines at Ely, the copper mines predominantly, was nine dollars a UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 3 day. Now when my parents moved into the Ely area, and I was raised from that point. However, my mother had spent a great deal of time in the Ely area prior to that, as her mother was born just outside of Ely in a Valley adjacent to Lincoln, Nevada, and her mother had married an Arthur Lawrence, Horace Arthur Lawrence, from Liverpool, England, and Mr. Lawrence was a world vagabond from the age of twelve. He was an orphan and ran away from the north of (Unintelligible), Liverpool, and traveled the world over. He was—at the time he came into the Ely area, the first trumpeter for John Philipps Souza, when he was traveling what was then known as the Orpheum Circuit, and he journeyed into, from Salt Lake, into the Ely area, to see what was classified then as (unintelligible) camp, or a roaring camp, because of the copper industry. It was a very body community at the time, and he journeyed into it to see what clubs and things were presenting and met my parental grandmother. They in turn journeyed back into the Oasis Delta, Utah area, where my mother met my father, which resulted in a marriage and my subsequent birth. My maternal grandfather, having some engineering training, which he picked out of electrical engineering training, which he picked up in Denver, Utah, excuse me—Denver, Colorado. Brought that knowledge to Utah, and proceeded to set up transmission lines, transmitting electricity from the Delta Utah area into the eastern side of the state of Nevada. It was the first electrical power in the mining camp at that time, and he maintained retailed stores on both ends of the transmission lines, and of course maintained the lines, which in those days, was extremely difficult because it was done predominantly on horse and or on wooden snow skis. He developed street lightings, the first street lighting for the city of Ely and he even developed lighting as far down as Pioche, Nevada with the only (unintelligible), now existing theatre. He knew the original owners of the theatre, (Unintelligible). So when my parents UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 4 journeyed through Ely, they were fairly familiar with the Ely area in that both parties had been here at prior times. I understand that you came down to, when exactly did you come down to Las Vegas? My folks resided in the Ely area from approximately 1932 through 1941. And I journeyed to Las Vegas in 1941, the city of about eight thousand people. At that point, we had five oil roads, so far as the city itself was concerned, two of the oil roads being split up the national high way, the other oil roads being Fremont and streets north and south—subsequent (unintelligible) north and south covering (unintelligible) and the courthouse on the grounds that it presently exists on, although the building itself being a different configuration. (Unintelligible) Incidentally, that building is still incorporated in part of the present structure, although it’s not observable in its form. Over the years it’s been integrated into the present modern building. Were you here, you were here apparently since okay, 1930 to 1941 when you were here accordingly, about the time Hoover Dam was being built? Hoover Dam was predominantly constructed by the time I arrived here. The dedication with Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt on the grounds had already occurred and the finishing touches were still being done. There were still quite a bit of construction work going on—all the generators were not into the dam, particularly on the Arizona side. The Dam itself was completed and a crack occurred over the top of it, but the Dam’s internal workings were not complete. Much of campsite construction was still existent at the time. Boulder city itself had become a nice peaceful government city, maintained as if it were a park with the entire city being owned by the government and the government leasing land to the people who built homes on UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 5 them, and I still believe that is part of the present status over there. Perhaps it doesn’t (unintelligible), I don’t know what it is at this point. Okay, Hoover Dam was built approximately eight and 1932 to 1936 I believe. I think there was construction clear into the early forties. Early forties. This was just about the time of the Depression, wasn’t it? Right in the heart of the Depression. As a matter of fact, it caused a great deal of trouble in that people flocked to the area because of the stories of work of many, and many people came here seeking work and there just wasn’t that much work available. Shacks and tar-paper type barracks existed extensively in what is now known as the Henderson area, for the housing of people who journeyed into the area and worked over at the Dam. Boulder City itself being the government’s city, got the majority of the transience outside. And in the areas of Pittman and Whitney, Pittman being a part of Henderson (unintelligible) it would be too, I don’t know the exact boundary. They developed into rather large communities in and of themselves, that is, large relatively speaking, the type of communities that Nevada had at that time. They were both smaller than Las Vegas, but they had several motels, there were bars and stores, and that sort of thing. All of which, in essence, they came, very few human structures still remain today that have been remodeled etcetera from its original Nevada. I know of whole, whole motels, large ones, perhaps thirty rooms that premiered as that unoccupied and just gradually crumbled, and have been dozed over and used around the new structures and everything that existed. An existing city, two existing cities, Pittman and Whitney, were both actually blown up and wasted away and grown again. I see. How did the building of the Hoover Dam, and the fact that the Depression was in its midst—midstream, and all the people flocking to Las Vegas, or Nevada, looking for work, how did this react in the economy? What was it like here? UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 6 Well, there were several things that occurred that created a lot of economic influx in the state of Nevada. Gaming had gotten started in the early thirties of Nevada and Las Vegas was a gaming city. As a consequence, there was a statement that gaming never suffers as a result of the Depression in that with the building of Hoover Dam and the gaming, Boulder City being a government city, had no gaming or liquor in it, I mean there was liquor in the railroad pass at the old Victory Club, over at Henderson and the other establishment. The railroad pass being the closest liquor and gaming to Boulder City, and the rest of it stretching all out over to Las Vegas. Las Vegas sitting on the railroad tracks, was the main terminal for heavy equipment, which subsequently moved on over to the Boulder Dam site. So Las Vegas in and of itself boomed substantially even though it was several miles from the Dam site. And the influx of people just travelling through and taking their luck at the gaming tables caused the Las Vegas area to weather the Depression very well. The mining boom on the eastern side of the state continued to keep that community pretty well on its feet with its high wages. Although there was a great deal of poverty still present because transience, whether it was in the area or the Las Vegas area— moved in, could not find jobs, then people were broke and there was no place to turn for help, and (Unintelligible) were filled with people looking for work. The government PA provided some work but the Las Vegas area itself didn’t have too much of those types of programs, predominantly because of the boom going on over at Boulder Dam. A lot of construction enforcing Boulder City which was good, construction was occurring on a relatively speaking basis, Las Vegas area was handling an influx from the railroads. The railroads were very active and provided many people stable lives—the main thrust of the community was railroads and the many railroad homes built, particularly the homes along South First, Second, Third, and Fourth Street, out to about the six or seven-hundred block was predominantly occupied by people UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 7 working on the railroad. And these people had established their families and homes and things; ‘course they were also in proximity of the Las Vegas Grammar School on Fifth Street, it existed at this point, and Las Vegas High, over on Seventh Street. The economy itself wasn’t anything outstanding, in that it did in fact suffer by the national Depression. Children for instance, saw a movie on the weekends on Sunday afternoon matinees, for ten cents. Adults would run anywhere from thirty-five to fifty cents. In fact, everyone—I remember when Gone with the Wind came out, the public thought that it was that it was a (unintelligible) of the populace. Charged seventy-five cents for the ticket to see the movie despite its length. (Laughs)—Okay, that takes up the Depression, what was—how big was Las Vegas then? How far were the boundaries that it reached? Of Las Vegas itself, never really, during the early forties, didn’t grow really rapid, but it never quit growing after the building of Boulder Dam. With the onset of the war, the titanium plant was built in Henderson, it brought people in, and these peopled moved right into the tar-paper shacks and things that many of the construction workers from Boulder Dam had utilized and in the Three Kids Mines, oh it was the lake—introduction by the trails, titanium—the Henderson factory were working very hard on building projects. So as a consequence, industry remained quite good in the Henderson, Las Vegas area, and the city began to grow, and it went from eight thousand, to ten thousand, to twelve thousand, in a relatively short period of time, but there was never any booming type expansion that we experienced during the seventies. No huge tracts were built, and then they built three or four homes, but the real heavy home building of tracts never really occurred until the really late forties and fifties. It was very, it was slow but it was a good growth, really, in the mid-forties. In fact, the oil roads were still not extended all the way to Charleston Boulevard until the late oh, it was the late forties. I would say forty-seven, forty-UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 8 eight, approximately there. There was one fairly good size tract of homes built called the Biltmore (Unintelligible) back in the, right at the end of the War, and a hotel was built over there. The hotel was subsequently—it was rather short lived, it subsequently failed and its façade converted to a commercial establishment where the community would just visit. Sales for furniture. But that and the Huntridge edition, which was built right at the end of the War, forty-four, forty-five, were the only two good sized tracts for the homes that were built. From that point on, the city began to move pretty well. East and west, there was not a lot of movement towards the south. The barrier on the east was Twenty-Fifth Street. Very large portion of the original settlers in the Las Vegas Valley occurred down around what is known as Four Miles, Four Mile—or the Meadows. A house of ill-repute developed had developed at the Meadows, and then subsequently, a nationally famous house of prostitution, Roxy, was developed in close proximity. And with the older homes built along Twenty-Fifth Street, the community stopped growing at such time as the late sixties, a hurdle occurred and construction went beyond that old section of the city. The eastern expansion is also curtailed, so far it’s the south portion of the city which is concerned in the city’s original dump, was located at approximately one of the state office buildings where are now on East Sahara. In fact Sahara Avenue was built right over the top of the old city dump—they just poured dirt and things up on top of the old car bodies and built it and went ahead with their development. But that being an eye-sore construction did not expand that way. Expansion occurred more through the west, on up West Charleston, beyond some of the original ranches that had occurred. Incidentally, although they’re not observable to the newcomer, there still exists some silos and things of the old ranches over ‘round County Hospital. When one (unintelligible), it’s pretty hard to realize that there were ranches in there and sets of 360 acres but they exist. The railroad, still being in its present position, curtailed UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 9 expansion as it (unintelligible) ranches, so far as building occurring right up immediately against the city, two lumber stock yards in those days, in the area of the railroad, had people building up against the city. As a consequence, there was a (unintelligible) which occurred on out the West Charleston area before structures, residential structures began again. The city had a holder belt of air that occurred through there—and air conditioning as we know it today did not exist. Swamp cooler, predominantly of a burlap bag, provided with a fan, an electrical fan, setting it with this little dripping of water over the burlap bag with the zapper getting cooler everyday—most people utilized to cool their homes. Very primitive method of the evaporated cooler that we have presently. But the colder, cooler climate up there caused many of the people to build in that direction. There was an old saying that you could feel a ten-degree’s change as soon as you crossed over the railroad tracks moving west on Charleston. There was in fact a rather wealthy area (unintelligible) which subsequently demised for the present (doorbell buzzes and audio cuts off and returns mid-conversation)—present area of Rancho Circle which built up immediately on the west and north side of the old exclusive area. And then immediately on the south side of the area, the Scotch Eighties, developed. It was all their electric (unintelligible) homes having been destroyed and (unintelligible) for Southern Nevada Memorial hospital, and or otherwise, banned or destroyed. Okay Mr.—this was about 1940 I believe, 1945 or so. Mid-forties, yes. Mid-forties. What were you doing then? What occupation—? Oh, I had just finished with my last years of my high school and making rudimentary preparations for going on to college. I was working part-time as a stock boy for Rumson’s Department Store and it was then it moved towards the corner of Fifth and Fremont. And then in UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 10 the last year of high school, I was Rumson’s full-time janitor and going to school only part-time, because I had at the end of my junior year, sufficient credits to graduate, but chose not to. So I only went to school five hours a day my senior year and worked full time to save money so I could go to college, and I went to college two weeks after I graduated high school and started a summer program. A program, (unintelligible) program was a good field because of (unintelligible) with my mother. That in turn led to the outbreak of the Korean conflict, which meant, because I was number three on the World War II draft list, that I would be one of the first drafted and I would not be able to complete my college being single. And I waited out college rather than interrupt the semester and lose money and efforts. I was drafted in December in the Military. You told me an interesting story not too long ago, I believe you were working at somewhere on the present day Strip, one of the hotels as a valet. Am I correct? My guess, that’d be in 1947, my last semester of high school. I was working full-time as Rumson’s janitor, I was going to school, four hours a day in my last semester, and then at night, I was parking cars, for patrons at the new Flamingo Hotel. The Flamingo was the very ultra-modern hotel for the area. El Rancho hotel being old Spanish style structure that subsequently burned and never re-opened. And the Last Frontier, which became the New Frontier was all done in western (unintelligible), but the Flamingo was a modern panoply. And the onset of the hotel was a real shocker to the community, in that this was the first time that anyone had ever seen a cover charged placed on the showrooms, and the charge was twenty-five dollars per person, when the hotel first opened. It was immediately after the war, and there was great gaiety among the society. People tended to frivolity, returning World War II veterans who were inclined to live it up after many years of being under stress in the war. Movie (unintelligible) were just coming UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 11 onto the market, people having driven their 1941, forty-two and earlier automobiles several years through the war. So the people were of a happy frame of mind, and even though twenty-five dollars was a tremendous sum of money at the time, relatively speaking— Stop. (Tape one ends) Nevada History Tape Continuing, Side Two. The Flamingo had opened with Xavier Cugat who was a very popular band leader in Latin American music. And had next moved to Lena Horne, a negro singer of great fame, an interesting side aspect—when I was parking cars, we had at the time, a doorman who was in charge of all the people who parked the cars. And he would direct us in the removing, parking, or bringing up of vehicles, as well as open the door and assist people in and out of their cars. This one day, in 1942, black Chrysler with red wheels pulled up in front of the hotel at about six o’clock on this summer afternoon. This tall, slender, negro woman got out from behind the wheel and walked towards the front door. I was standing approximately eight-feet from the doorman, the doorman reached out to hold the door and announced to this negro-woman that the kitchen help had to enter the hotel through the rear doors. This woman proceeded to inform the doorman that she was, “the entertainment there.” A splash of surprise came over the doorman’s eyes and he immediately opened the door, and he said, “Oh, I’m sorry Mrs. Horne.” And allowed Lena Horne to enter the hotel through the front door. Thereafter, the red and black Chrysler had a position of prestige at the front door of the hotel. It obviously, being the result of the assault that Mrs. Horne had received and there had been hearsay. The effect of reverberations occurring through the hotel after Mrs. Horne got inside. I was aware of the doorman being criticized by a superior about an hour and a half after the incident, although I did not overhear the conversation, UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 12 I was aware of the fact that he was being lectured. One day, about two and a half months after the hotel had opened, new cars were still a very great rarity, and a ten, Dodge convertible, drove about and Virginia Hill got out from behind the wheel. This vehicle was given the same prestigious parking as Mrs. Lena Horne’s Chrysler. Gingerly sitting right at the front door, or very close to the front door for easy access. Virginia Hill was the girlfriend of Mr. Siegel—Bugsy Siegel—operated the hotel, or built the hotel. The vehicle had been parked in its position about three or four days, when one day Virginia Hill and Mr. Siegel came out the front door of the hotel in an obvious state of argument. Although their voices were not really high. It could’ve been gotten—Dodge convertible, arguing through that, voices raising slightly, and then Virginia Hill drove the car away. The car was gone for approximately an hour two an hour and a half, and then it returned. And when the vehicle returned, the two occupants were arguing even more loudly. Finally, Mr. Siegel extracted himself from the passenger side of the car and slammed the door and walked into the hotel. Virginia sat behind the wheel still very obviously mad, and yelling, and finally she got out about the time that Mr. Hill was to go through the door of the hotel, and yelled at him. She walked around the passenger side of the car, opened the passenger door, reached inside, extracted two or three bundles of white men’s shirts, and proceeded to tear them—the bundles apart, in shirts apart, and scattering them all over the grass in front of the hotel. She then slammed the door of the Dodge convertible, and wearing a pair of cowboy boots, she proceeded to kick in the right hand passenger door of the convertible, all to the nausea of those standing around because new vehicles were such a rarity. These arguments apparently, were not infrequent things because we heard them periodically during the course of my summer employment. Mr. Siegel has interesting sidelights to have reputed to be a mafia type, in line, or with the mafia. And I personally have carried on in subsequent years of conversation that they UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 13 had with the (unintelligible)’s union. For that period of time, Bill Carter, and Bill Carter related to me that when he had organized that hotel, for his union, that he was escorted into Mr. Siegel’s office, which was a large conference room, with some machine guns tacked up on the wall. And was informed very politely that it would be very difficult to try and operate the hotel if Mr. Siegel continued to picket out front and that he didn’t want to have any trouble with the (unintelligible)’s union, and they felt sure he would be willing to withdraw their pickets in the interests of the community and welfare of the hotel. Mr. Siegel extracted himself and then he (unintelligible) single escort Mr. Carter a rather large muscular man out of the hotel. It was always my opinion that Mr. Carter never feared any man but his own physical size, however, he told me at a later time that the union headquarters which was over at the Boulder Club Downtown Las Vegas, where the Desert Inn hotel exists, that he was caught from above and from below by men who threatened to let him bathe in the depths of Lake Meade. (Unintelligible) remarks to union activities at the Flamingo Hotel. Mr. Carter was conscious of what was going on and it appeared did extract the union from the hotel and never again organized the hotel. So, okay, you left when you graduated from high school and then you left from your job here at the valet, and then you went to war and you came back. Did you pursue your, your college career? And if so, this, this was the, as I presume, around the late fifties. How much had the Las Vegas or the Nevada area changed from the time you went to war to the time you came back? Very little change occurred during the fifties, during the Korean times, like (unintelligible) buildings here or there, and the slow growth during that period of time began to pick up as the last decades of the fifties continued to grow. The last of the 1950’s came on, the community UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 14 itself grew. There was a never a period that I am conscious of, where the Las Vegas Valley community actually stopped growing. Slow down periods when economic conditions, but the community itself never ever stopped growing, even during the “recession” of the early seventies in the Las Vegas Valley. There’s always, there were always some additions, but nothing really major. As the new hotels began to move into the Strip area, began to blossom substantially and gathered a lot of large, very worthwhile hotels. And it didn’t take long for the community to (unintelligible) become the entertainment capital of the world for gambling, the major attraction, and soon evident that Las Vegas outshone Monaco—no, the Monte Carlo and other gaming capitals of the world. Including minor gaming areas operations in the (unintelligible) of elsewhere. Nothing compared with Las Vegas in that strata, and nothing has even come closer to it. The economic levels of the state of course boomed. What was the gaming like in the fifties? What was the salaries like? The average culinary employee or the average teamster employee, you know, what were the minimum wages and or the benefits that allowed the employees such as the dealers received? Well, gaming in and of itself has changed substantially from the thirties, forties, and fifties. It was not unusual in the thirties and forties to see payments made on card games such as Twenty-One. They no longer exist, in fact, I haven’t seen payment, I haven’t seen payments of that kind in twenty years. As an example, in the late fifties, in the Reno area, where I was attending college, Harold’s Club would pay not only the one and a half times the bet on a Twenty-One, but if it was the Ace and Jack of Spades, they paid double the bet. They also would pay double the bet if you could take five cards and still not break Twenty-One. They would triple the bet if you could take six cards and not break Twenty-One. And they would pay three and a half times—excuse me, four times the bet if you could take seven cards and not break Twenty-One. All these UNLV University Libraries Lawrence Earl Hawley 15 five, six, and seven card bets have been non-existent from the sixties on. There are a lot of other bets, but the odds were much greater for the player. In Keno for instance, the player would get back one half of his money by picking three spots out of the ten spots picked, and he would get paid three times his money if he picked four out of the ten spots. One would not get paid anything in this day and age for a three spot pick—the odds have changed substantially. There are many bets today that would have bought, what was then the maximum of ten-thousand, or subsequently became twenty-five thousand dollars for picking ten spots. Ten out of ten on a ticket of thirty-five cents would hold benefits of a maximum ten or twenty-five thousand dollars would’ve been payed. That is a non-existent payment today. It is much harder for the player. As a result, it was certainly an added cash flow in the populace’s pocket, which in turn made the service industries a very lucrative business to be in. Dealers themselves were classified as being very paying people. They took their monies then gave the average dancer or entertainer, gave ‘em better monies than the railroad workers, they made better monies than craft workers, there were at a new height. But gaming in those days still carried the image of its illegality prior to the thirties and it was something looked down on, and people who ran those games were deemed unsavory and therefore a lot of people did not go into gaming the way they do today. With gaming being what it was, and millions being more prevalent, (unintelligible) excellent just as it is today. The minimum wage scale of course was substantially different. We’re talking sixty-five, seventy-five, eighty-five cents an hour, and now its three dollars an hour today. (Unintelligible), but tipping was a very large industry, source of income for the service industries. The g