Transcript of interview with Linda Hartley by Pauline Marchese, March 10, 1978

UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley i An Interview with Linda Hartley An Oral History Conducted by Pauline Marchese Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley iv Abstract On March 10, 1978, Pauline Marchese interviewed her neighbor, Linda Hartley (born in 1941, in Cedar City, Utah) in her home at 5261 South Jane Way, Las Vegas, Nevada. During the interview, the two discuss Hartley’s personal history, such as schools that she had attended and her recollection of local recreational activities. The two go on to talk about changes in crime, the environment, and briefly discuss a variety of issues at the time, including: segregated schools, prostitution, and effects of the Nevada Test Site.UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 1 The narrator is Linda Hartley. The date is March 10th, 1978 at 12:30 PM. The place: 5261 South Jane Way, Las Vegas, Nevada. The interviewer is Pauline Marchese, 5254 South Jane Way, Las Vegas, Nevada. Project is Local History Project: Oral Interview, “Life of a Las Vegas Old Timer.” Are you a native of Southern Nevada—(Laughs)—Nevada? No. Where did you come from? Southern Utah. What was your reasons for coming here? Employment. What year? I moved here first with my mother and father in 1957 in Henderson. What was—whose occupation was it that brought you out here, yours or your husband’s? Well, first it was my father who had, and then it was my husband. And what was that occupation? He was in road construction. Did he build any of the roads around here? I think he went to work on the freeway. Really? Mm-hmm. Do you know what year that was? Probably 1960. How—how long were they working on the roads? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 2 Oh gosh, I don’t remember. (Laughs) Did you come here with your family? The first time? Yes. Yes. Okay. How many children do you have? I have four children. Did you go to school here? Yes, one year, at Basic High School in Henderson. And it’s still there? They have a new high school now. What subject did you take up in the high school? Was it just finishing up—? It was my junior year. I just took the basic studies. Were there any activities that you got involved in? No. (Laughs) (Unintelligible) I was shy. (Laughs) (Laughs)—do you remember anything about any of the other schools in Las Vegas? No, just—basketball, I was quite a basketball fan. We went to a lot of the games, I don’t remember too much about anything else. Hmm. Do you know of any schools that weren’t here before? Well, Las Vegas High School and Rancho. Those are the only two high schools I can remember being here then. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 3 Mm. Do you know if those schools are still the same? I don’t know. Do you remember anything about the university? No, I really don’t. I didn’t have much to do with me, I just— Do you remember it being there? I don’t even remember that. (Laughs) Around this area here, near the university, do you remember what that looked like? Looked like desert. Did you stay here through the years or did you move at any time? I left several times and returned again. What were your reasons for leaving? Well, my husband was in road construction, so he moved all throughout the states working. Do you remember what years you came back to Nevada? Well, I first moved here with my husband in 1960. Then we would move around, you know, mote to mote, and then I came back in 1965 and I was here a year, and then I re-married in ’66. And then I moved away for—to Alaska for a year and a half. And then California, and then I came back here again in 1969, and I’ve been here ever since. Tell me, you’re moving and coming back—did you notice any drastic changes in Nevada? I know it had really grown. The traffic was worse, much more traffic I would say. Bigger, taller buildings. Okay, okay about the buildings, it started with the Strip. What was—what did they look like then and now? The differences. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 4 Well the, the buildings weren’t as tall as they are now or as big. And there weren’t near as many of them. Which one were they and which ones weren’t? I remember the Riviera being the tallest building here, at the time I was going to high school. I remember the Sahara and the Sands and the Desert Inn, and the Tropicana, the Hacienda. And the new ones, ‘course, Caesar’s Tower, the MGM, Hilton. I can’t remember what’s— Were the names still the same, do you know? Anyone changes their names through the years? The Hilton used to be the International Hotel, that used to be a really—it was really nice when it was first built. It had that, it represented all different countries in the world. And they got, the different cocktail waitresses wore the different costumes from all of the—it had the most rooms and it was really, really elegant. It was one that was really the most elegant at the time. ‘Course they built (unintelligible). Do you notice any differences in any of the other hotels? What they did? Well, they’ve done a lot of remodeling, on I think all of them. What about the shows and the entertainment? Oh, that’s changed, that’s changed. Almost all of the hotels used to have lounges were there was no cover and no minimum. And they had really good lounge shows, but they cut out most of the lounge shows now. What type—do you remember any names of the entertainment that that used to do the lounges shows? I remember the Fremont Hotel use to have this really great lounge show. I remember one that I particularly liked was called “The Fable.” It was a singing group. And “The Jap,” was more of a UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 5 comedy group. But that was my favorite spot. They remodeled and changed that and things like (Unintelligible), start there. He used to fill in with his brother to do it at the Fremont Hotel. Do you remember any of the bigger acts that had to use the big rooms? Oh yes, Frank Sinatra, and then Dean Martin. And then Andy, I don’t know, I haven’t ever seen him, let me think. You know, the same big stars that that are here now. I guess there are more of them now—Tony Bennett, Sammy Davis Jr., Jimmy Dean, Johnny Carson, and of course, the lead show that’s been here for years. Les Folies, at the Tropicana, I think there are costing a lot more than it used to. It’s really hard to entertain right now, I know you used to be able to see a dare show for like six dollars, and now it costs you about twenty-five dollars per person at least. Do you know anything about how the entertainers were treated? Then and now, were they treated differently? I don’t know, I don’t know how the entertainers were treated, but I know some of the entertainers who would really treat the help in the hotel good. They would give them flowers, and nice (unintelligible) used to work at (unintelligible) at one of the Strips. They used to give ‘em gifts, you know, they were really nice to ‘em. Now I think they’re almost kind of snobby, they don’t do anything for the help at all (Laughs)—they just kind of ignore them. The rooms, the showrooms have been changed. (Unintelligible)—you’d have to tip the maître D to get a decent seat at all, and I mean a big tip or more. (Laughs) Were you able to get comped now? If you know anyone in town you could get a comp and you’d get red-carpet treatment. They’d put you right down for you, you’d get first-class treatment. But the thing is that though, for that comp (unintelligible). UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 6 Inside the hotel, the casinos, have you noticed any changes in that? No I haven’t. I never did much gambling. I don’t see much difference there. Do as many people come to Las Vegas now as then? Or were there more people coming to Vegas years back? I think more people come now, probably because they can afford it more, I don’t know. But as long as I can remember though, it’s really been difficult to get a room like on a holiday weekend or something (unintelligible) unless you have reservations. Was that—were the guests treated as well twenty years ago as now, or do they treat them worse now? I really don’t know, I haven’t been a guest at a hotel so I (unintelligible). Do you remember anything about new theatres or new rooms, you know, like the Aladdin—was that theatre always there? Or was that something new? Oh that’s just new, within the last few years, that’s a first. We never had anything like that. Are there any other hotels that have something like that? Not that I know of. Do you know anything about how the hotels are ran, or how they use to be ran? Or (unintelligible) and things like that? I don’t know for sure, I just you know, (Laughs) hear things. Notice anything different about the tourists then and now? No, I mean I don’t— Talking about, like how everything’s all crowded. Yes, well it’s been that way forever. Yes. Do you think Nevada is prepared for the growth over the years? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 7 No, I really don’t. I don’t think it’s prepared at all for the growth and the traffic, and I don’t think it’s planned at all. What types of things do you think they all need to plan on? Well let’s see, the highways, the roads, they’re just really bad. (Laughs)— (unintelligible) food fights with the hodgepodge but there was no planning to ‘em at all. What do you notice—any of the roads, are they different from the ones— were they unpaved? Well, no, not that I recall. One change at the end of it, Sahara Avenue we used to call San Francisco Avenue, and there was nothing there. We could just go right across town, and just a few minutes because there was no traffic and no buildings, or anything. Well it takes you forever now. Have they done a lot of building over the past twenty years? Oh yes. What types of things? I have seen (unintelligible), particularly the hotels of course, add-ons to the hotels, most of the people I’ve been involved with have been in the construction business, so yes it’s really grown. It’s good for builders to come here? I mean, in my opinion it is. My father was in road construction (Unintelligible)’s business, and he did very well. Yes? And my husband now is in the air conditioning business and he’s got more work than he can do. What type of things do they build in Nevada? Keep talking. Building, did he build anything major or you know, build anything important? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 8 Well, it’s not anything important I guess (Laughs)—no, I don’t think. He’s done, he’s been in the business just for about ten years, and he’s worked on lots, housing tracts, Heritage Square, and, but I don’t remember. I know he’s done a lot more than what I can remember. (Laughs) Do you remember anything about prices of homes? Of homes? Oh yes, they’ve really gone up. (Laughs) When I lived in 1969, we bought a four-bedroom home and it was a very nice home for seventeen thousand dollars. And when I sold it, about a year ago, we sold it for about thirty-one thousand. And to replace it now, just a year now, I don’t think you could replace the house and build it again for less than fifty thousand. Was there any over building? Yes, I believe it was 1963, they over built apartments and housing tracts for a couple years, and they just sat, and they just vandalized it. And there was a lot of vacant homes and apartments. Why do you think they over built it? I don’t know, I guess they were over confident they would be bought, I don’t know. Anything different about the banks? Banks? Yes. No, not that I know of. Was it easier then, to you know, get loans, and things like that? Gosh, I didn’t have any experience with that, so I couldn’t say. Do you notice anything different about the store themselves? The shopping centers have grown, got more elegant. Like when they built the Boulevard shopping center, that was a really, it was really nice shopping center. Do you remember any new shopping centers, to (unintelligible)? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 9 Oh there’s lots more, in fact, the—I think the Boulevard is the biggest and the nicest that I remember. I remember I used to shop next to (unintelligible) inside the mall, and that was new at the time. And now it’s old. When it’s just—when you were here, with these malls, you know the Boulevard Mall, it wasn’t there at all? No. It was all empty? Mm-hmm, basically. Do you remember any of the areas around there, where the homes are now? Was that empty too? I think there were homes around there for a few years before they built the Boulevard. But mainly, in Paradise Valley, it was, just very sparse, you know. There wasn’t many housing developments around here. The Wonder World, was that there? (Laughs)—before the Boulevard, or—? I—it was about the same time. They were built around the same time. That whole area was just empty. Yes. (Laughs) (Laughs) Yes, those apartments around there, they were all built here too around the same time. Do you remember anything else about the other areas built? This area you mean? Yes. No. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 10 Did you see, you know, for miles? Is that how empty it was, that you could see clear out into the mountains without anything blocking your way? Well I don’t live in that part of town, so I really don’t— What part did you live in? I lived in the east side of town. And what do you remember about that? Well, I bought—the house I bought was one of the, had been built when they over built and it had been sitting for several years and vandalized, and then things started getting better I guess, and people moving in, and the banks were lending money, and so (unintelligible) spot on the homes and they completely refurbished things. They were just like brand new homes again. And there was, I think there was a lot of houses out there on the Eastside like that, that were built during that time. Have you noticed any changes on the Eastside as well? Besides the homes. It’s become real run-down. It’s really gone downhill. Notice anything about the laws in Nevada? Things that have changed? I think they’ve become much more lenient. Do you remember what they used to be like and what they are now? Well, mainly, it’s been off reading the papers, so I really can’t say. But I believe that the justices have become much too lenient with the criminals. There’s a lot of crime here, I think it’s got worse, much worse than it used to be. Can you talk a little bit more about that, going through (unintelligible)? Well I can only give my theories about it, but drug problem has really got bad here. And that’s one reason for so much crime. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 11 What about the environment? We’ve got a lot of smog that we didn’t use to have. We didn’t use to have all this smog. And then it seems to be more humid here in the summer than it was when I first moved here. I heard people say it’s because most people have swimming pools and things that make it more humid. Do you think that’s true? Oh no, I would doubt it. (Laughs) Have there been any racial problems? A few years ago there was some, they had bad racial problems. They had riots, and when I first lived here, I don’t remember racial problems. But I don’t think there’s as many right now as there was a few years ago either. Maybe because of the bussing, they started bussing sixth graders to—so they could you know, integrate. This was about six years ago. (Unintelligible) I know that there was a lot of people against it. I remember I was one of them that was carrying flags and marching, trying to get them not to do it. But it happened. What were your reasons for not wanting bussing? We don’t—didn’t want our children bussed out of our neighborhood, clear across town, to where we considered it to be dangerous, possibly. Just—there’s high crime in that area. You got involved with the political end of that. Well, my little sister would’ve gone into sixth grade that next year. And from another (unintelligible), I was supporting her, and then back then would’ve been the next year, and he did, you know, he did go. He was bussed. And everything was fine with him, the school was nice, he went to CVT Gilbert. Where’s that? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 12 That’s over on the Westside. Hmm. And everything was fine, that year, I think they probably had more problems but those—our father moved away that year so my little sister didn’t have to go up there. Has that school changed? I don’t know, I really wouldn’t know. Did you move—you said you were marching, to protest bussing. Did you come across any problems, you know, political problems, or you know, any problem with the law? No, it wasn’t anything like that. Not any that I was involved with. We were just carrying signs and marching around the courthouse, and things like that. Was it the same courthouse? Yes. Do you remember anything about the Federal World Bank? Was that, was that the same? I suppose so, I don’t really know. I don’t remember it being anywhere else. Was there anything here for children to do, or was there anything for them to do? Or had it always been an adult town? I think it’s always been an adult town. They—I know they built these neat new playlands, which is really good for the kids I think. But other than that I don’t suppose, I don’t know of anything for the children, except movies, now and again. (Laughs) Going back, do you remember anything of the theatres, like the Red Rock? I remember when the Red Rock first was built, it was the first of its kind to have more than one theatre in a building. And it started out I believe, with four. The Red Rock Four theatres, and now it’s called the Red Rock Eleven. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 13 Do you remember anything else about the hotel, like the Landmark? The Landmark was built when the financial problems, and it sat vacant for about four years. Do you remember who came in and bought it? No (Laughs)—I don’t remember who bought it. Do you know anything about Howard Hughes? Yes, I remember when he came in town, he bought up about five of the hotels and it seemed that things changed around here. He came in and tightened up the business, he was a businessman, like a tight business. Even the gambling they seemed to encourage the small kind of gamblers, you know, the one and two dollar getters more so than the others. It seemed that they treated the people in a different level, they—it was more on a one-to-one basis before, now it’s, they treat everyone alike. Do you remember anything about the mafia, anything at all? I’ve heard that the town was pretty much controlled—or the Strip was controlled by the mafia. Was the (unintelligible) better controlled with the mafia? Or was—? I’ve heard it said that it was. Do you remember anything about Boulder Dam? It’s been there for as long as I’ve lived here. As far as I know, it hasn’t changed really. Was Boulder City up there before the dam? Boulder City was built at the time they were building the dam. It was built by the people that were building the dam. It has grown a little, there’s been some housing tracts added, but it’s still small and quaint. Is it possible (unintelligible) Las Vegas? I don’t know. No, no, it’s just a small town. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 14 They don’t allow gambling out there? I don’t believe so. I know a path they gamble there, but I think that cottage was just put in. What about the people in Las Vegas? People, I think—they used to be friendlier. People have become more suspicious of each other now. The city’s grown so much it’s become more of a metropolitan area and they don’t really trust each other like they did when I first moved here. They don’t speak to you on the street, or they don’t now. (Unintelligible) (Tape one ends) What about religion? There are a lot of churches in Las Vegas, a lot of different religions here. And I don’t too much about any of the rest of them, except mine. I’m Mormon. There are a lot of Mormons living in Las Vegas, I think a lot of people moved from Utah to Las Vegas for employment. And so, most of the population in Utah is Mormon. The Mormon people that live here in Las Vegas, I guess because of all the influences around they’re very close knit. And they take care of their own, and most of them, I’d say, are closer to their religion. They know the religion better than what they would back in Utah because of the environment. I would say a great percentage of the population in Las Vegas is Mormon. Do you know anything the Mormons have done for Las Vegas? There are a lot of beautiful churches and the Reed-Whipple Center used to be a Mormon Stake Center. What is that? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 15 Well, that’s like a gathering place for all the different like, its divided into wards, are what I guess other churches call congregations. The wards are different congregations—they have their functions at what the call Stakes Centers. Do you think the Mormon’s have any influence on Nevada? (Unintelligible) in particular. I do. I heard they have a lot of influence. What kind of influence? Well, there are a lot of Mormons in your government. And city officials and judges, there are a lot of them that are Mormon. I’ve lived in a lot of small towns around Nevada when my husband was in road construction, he lived in a lot of small towns. And it was interesting that—houses of prostitution. It was very interesting thing to me because it was something new. They were usually on the outskirts of town, across the railroad tracks, and one, couldn’t believe it, was (unintelligible), in Northern Nevada. There was one whole street, they had houses of prostitution on and women weren’t allowed to even go on the street, of course except the prostitutes. Do you remember about any other places of prostitution? Like Las Vegas, the Strip itself. Do you know anything about that? Well it’s illegal, of course here. Where it’s legalized in other counties. In Clark County it’s illegal. Of course it still goes on, call girls, and the Strip as far as I know, there are no houses of prostitution. Has, do you think prostitution has anything to do with the growth of Nevada in any way? No. (Laughs) (Laughs)—Do you think the business is important to Nevada? To Las Vegas? (Laughs) No? (Laughs) I don’t think it’s good to Las Vegas. I think it’s a black eye on our town. Do you think it has brought in a lot of people? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 16 No, I think it probably—for issues on the tourist trade, but I—I wouldn’t think that any people would come in for that purpose, I wouldn’t know. (Laughs) Is there anything else that you can think of about prostitution on these small little towns? I remember a few years back, one of the madams, I can’t remember her name now, and I believe it was—she ran for public office. And she was one of the madams. She didn’t make it, but she had a lot of votes. Do you remember anything about any little towns or any little cities around, outside of Las Vegas? I lived in Overton, Nevada for a few months. That was a nice, small town. I don’t know if it’s grown any, but it was a small little farm community. And I remember Saint Thomas, that used to be right near Overton, is now—the lake covered it when they, when they built Lake Mead. It covered Saint Thomas, the town. And I lived in towns between Beatty and Goldfield, Nevada. And I lived in Wells, Nevada for a while. That was a turn of a stop at four different high ways. Do you remember anything specific about these little towns? Almost all of them had houses of prostitution. (Laughs) Overton didn’t, but Beatty. Goldfield was an interesting town because it was once a really booming town because of the gold, but now it’s a ghost town. There’s only a few people that are left there. But there are big hotels, they’re still standing there. That one time, I guess (unintelligible). What did the (unintelligible) look like? You know, Overton, the Downtown area? (Unintelligible), they were just very small. They had a main street and then you know—(phone rings, audio cuts off and returns)— Can you continue describing the little town? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 17 The people were very friendly, very nice people, you know, helpful. There was never any problems, there was always someone there to help you. Could you go into what the buildings looked like? Were they like—were they like the buildings on here, were they old-fashioned? Oh, they were more old-fashioned and small. What did they look like? Oh, well they were all one story. (Laughs) Just, a typical small town. (Laughs) You know they had a post office, and maybe a small grocery store. And usually a bar. But there was nothing, it was nothing spectacular. Are there a lot of towns like that? Yes, there are a lot of towns like that in Nevada. They’re all, I mean they’re not far away from each other. There was a museum near Overton that was interesting, it was called the Lost City Museum, it had a lot of Indian artifacts, and it’s close to the lake. Echo Bay, you called it Echo Bay, it was close to there. Do you remember anything else about maybe the Indians, desert, do you remember anything like that? (Laughs) You know, ‘cause like—were there any reservations in Nevada, or anything like that? Not that I know of. I know there was in Utah when I lived there, but I don’t remember, I don’t know any of ‘em in Nevada. Do you mind talking about the Nevada Testing Site? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 18 Yes, I used to work for Rentals Electric, in engineering. I did the personnel processing for their security clearance—they had to have security clearance to work out there. I never worked on the Test Site, personally, but I know a lot of people that do. What was your job? Processing personnel for the security clearance. Mm-hmm like a secretary? No, it was called a personnel processor. Do you remember anything else about that? I remember when they went to set off the bombs. Before they had the underground testing, earlier, before, they used to do it above-ground. And the, you know, the mushroom clouds from the atom bombs, and the radiation at that time, having the bomb shelters everywhere. Everyone was talking about bomb shelters and field defenses being set up. You know, fallout shelters and all of the, you know, the big hotels, and the fitted buildings and things like that. Everywhere there was fallout shelters. But I don’t know, I really don’t remember too much. Now they do underground testing? Yes. Do you know what their reasons were for switching? Yes, there was a lot of flagged food because of the fallout. A lot of it, you know the wind carried up the fallout. Was—the Nevada Testing Site have anything to do with the growth of Nevada? Yes. I believe it has. I believe it’s influenced you know, a lot of people. A lot of people have come here because of that. Do you remember anything about Nellis Air Force Base? UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 19 Yes, I remember that it—I’ve been there a few times, my husband is in the Air Force. At the time that I met him, while he was in the service, and we were married about a month here before he was transferred to Alaska, where I was on the base a few times. Is there anything else that you can think of that happened in Nevada that’s just up in your mind? I remember when Elvis Presley first came to Las Vegas. That was one of the big exciting acts because he hadn’t performed live for many, many years, and so he appeared at the Las Vegas County. It was the International at that time, and that was in 1969, and I went to one of his shows the first year that he was here. It was very exciting, the shows were packed of course, all the time. And there were nine girls, that we went to see him, and we wanted a good seat, and we were each trying, pulling our money trying to tip the maître d to get us a good seat. (Laughs) And he changed a lot over the years. He appeared here twice a year up until his death, but that first year really stands out in my mind. He was a very nice person. I went to another show here to see Tom Jones and Elvis was in the audience at that time, and during the show, people didn’t know where to look, to look at Tom Jones or Elvis because this was when Tom Jones was very popular. And after the show, all the women started running after Elvis like maniacs, and I was one of them. (Laughs) I just couldn’t get there fast enough, and he was just surrounded by people wanting his autograph, and he was so nice, and I had a Tom Jones menu, I just kept pushing that could you please sign it for me, and they kept saying, “No, Elvis you ‘gotta go, you don’t have time.” And—but he took the time to sign everyone’s, he gave his autograph to everyone. And he was just very, super nice. I think he was one, I think he’s the greatest act that was ever in Las Vegas. UNLV University Libraries Linda Hartley 20 You think he did a lot for Las Vegas? He did. He really did, he did an awful lot for charity here in Las Vegas. Do you know any particular thing? The aid for the adoption for special children, he did a lot of charity work for them. He filed his pictures and souvenirs, and turned the money over to them, I know that for sure. I know that for sure, he’s done a lot more than that, but that I remember the most. Is there anything else that you can think of? No. Alright, thank you Linda very much. You’re welcome. After all the interruptions, we got through it. (Laughs) Thank you. You’re welcome.