Transcript of interview with George Gilbert by Ruth Guidi, February 10, 1975

UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 1 An Interview with George Gilbert An Oral History Conducted by Ruth Guidi Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 4 Abstract On February 10, 1975, Ruth Guidi interviewed George Gilbert (born 1931 in Southgate, California) about his life in Nevada. George first talks about his education in Las Vegas and his family background. He also talks about times during World War II, the shopping facilities available to those in Las Vegas, the casinos that existed, the churches that were built, and the Helldorado parades. The two also discuss social clubs, politics, the atomic testing, environmental and social changes, the Mormon Fort, Hoover Dam, and the first movie theaters. UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 5 [Interview starts midsentence] George Gilbert, one of our local businessmen. Mr. Gilbert is the owner/operator of Gilbert Distributing Company of Las Vegas. He has resided in Las Vegas since 1936. Today’s date is February 10th, 1975, and we are in Mr. Gilbert’s home at 4511 Alpine Place, Las Vegas. The collector is Ruth Guidi, 7108 Lakeland Road, Las Vegas, and the project is Oral History Project 11, Oral Interview; Life of a Las Vegas Old Timer. George, were you born in Nevada? No, I was born in Southgate, California in 1931, and we moved to Las Vegas, of course, when I was five years old. What year was that, George? 1936. We came here in July—I don’t remember just the exact date, but I do remember it was hot. Why did you move here, George? My father was a Methodist minister, and he was transferred to, they called it then, the First Methodist Church, and it was at the corner of Bridger and Third Street. Were you educated here, and what schools did you attend? Well, in those days, there were three grammar schools in Las Vegas: one in North Las Vegas and the one on the West Side went from kindergarten through the third grade. And the Fifth Street School, which the federal building stands there now, was the regular grammar school, and it went through the eighth grade, which, I went through the eighth grade there, and then went on to the Las Vegas High School and graduated from there in 1949. At that time, those were the only schools; there was no more. Oh, the Fifth Street School, you mean, where the old building was down there? Well, they tore our old building down. There’s now the federal building there now. There was a little tiny building right on Bridger, then there was a big building in the middle, and then another UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 6 small building. Then the rest of the school that housed the sixth, seventh, and eighth grade is still there, but they don’t use it. I think it’s all federal or county now. It has nothing to do with the school district. I see. Where else have you lived in Southern Nevada other than Las Vegas? The only other place, after my wife and I first were married in 1955, we did live in Henderson for approximately five years. I’m not even sure it was that long. But we did live out there for that time, and that was the only— Was your wife from Southern Nevada? No, she’s from Oakland, California, which is right down by Pomona. How many children do you have? We have three; Marilyn’s twelve, Lynn’s fifteen, and Steven is seventeen. Were all the kids born in Las Vegas? Well, Lynn and Steven were born in Rose de Lima in Henderson, and Marilyn was born in Sunrise Hospital in Las Vegas. What was the population of Las Vegas, say, oh, around 1940, 1945, can you remember that at all? Well, I’m not sure what the population was in 1945; in 1940 or even 1936 when we first moved here, there was about 5- or 6,000 people, and not any more than that; maybe by 1940, there were 10,000, I don’t know. Honest to God, George—(Laughs)—5,000 people. What are some of your first recollections of Las Vegas during the forties, and one thing I wanted to ask, George, was, what was it like during the Second World War? Do you have any memory of that? UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 7 Oh, yes. The early part of the forties or even the late thirties when we lived here, of course, with five or six thousand people, in those days, when you walked down the street, everybody knew your dad and your mother, and everybody was on a first-name basis. I can remember, our phone number was 476, and when you picked up the phone, there was an operator on the end—there wasn’t anything like what we’ve got now. I don’t know, there used to be an alley down every block, you ran up and down the alley, you know everybody. During World War II, or when that first started, I can remember the blackouts and the scares when, in Southern California, they were having problems, and they would black out Las Vegas because of what was going on down there. I remember the blackout curtains my dad made for the church, so Sunday nights or Wednesday night meetings, they could still have a meeting in case there was a blackout by putting whatever they were at that time up on the windows to eliminate the light. I can remember that, and then about 1942 or ’43, I can’t remember just when it was now, it was when my father went into the service as a chaplain, and that was about the only time we were not actually in Southern Nevada during the past thirty-eight years. What were the shopping facilities like, and can you recall any of the old grocery stores or the produce stores, and what they were called? Well, yes, I remember Ronzoni’s being on the south side of Fremont Street between Second and Third Street. I remember when Sears and Roebuck used to be down where the Las Vegas Club is now right in the very first block off of Main and Fremont. I remember there was a (unintelligible) grocery store right at the corner of Third and Fremont which, kind of across the street from the El Portal Theatre. I remember, directly across from the El Portal Theatre, there was a store called Modern Grocery Store, and an old J.C. Penney store—I remember all those stores had wood floors. I remember the manager of the J.C. Penney’s, his name was Harperry; UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 8 since then, he’s passed away, but I don’t know, he—and there was another fella, all I can remember, I believe the fella’s name, in charge of that (unintelligible) grocery store, was named Jeff Fleming. Now, I could be wrong on that, but it seemed to me that they were here at that time. How many casinos were there? Well, that’s hard for me to say because, being a youngster, naturally we didn’t get around them too much, but there was—way before the Golden Nugget, I remember the Boulder Club, and I remember the Pioneer Club, and, you know, I can’t remember the other ones. There could have been some more, but I just don’t remember the names. There was no Strip then, right? Right. I don’t remember the year the El Rancho Hotel was built, but I do remember it being right—during the war, right after, I just can’t remember—right before the war, I guess they built the El Rancho. There used to be a place way out on the, what they call the Strip now by where the Castaways is, was called the Red Rooster. And as I can remember people talking in those days, that was the (unintelligible). If you got to the Red Rooster, you were halfway to Los Angeles. That’s interesting. How many churches were here when you and your family lived here, George? Well, there was a Catholic church, there was a Baptist church, a Methodist church, there was a Presbyterian church, and the LDS church. Now, there could have been some more. There might have been a couple of Baptist churches—I don’t remember. But I remember those because they were kind of all clustered together there around Bridger or within a couple blocks. UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 9 Arlene told me a story about your dad and a priest getting together on a Good Friday and doing something with the casinos. Do you want to tell me about that? I don’t remember what year it was, but I remember Father Lamb, who was probably one of the finest Catholic priests that ever walked, and my dad got together, and they had each and every casino close up for three hours on a Good Friday afternoon. Now, to my recollection, other than when John Kennedy was killed and they closed some of them for the funeral, I believe that’s the only time that any of those casinos have ever been closed, but Reverend Ford Gilbert, my father, and Father Lamb were the two that did it. In those days, were the church activities important for the people, and I’m sure they were to you, but about the people, per se, were they important? Oh, I believe they were. I believe we probably had just as many churchgoers per capita of the size of the town as they did anywhere in the United States. I can’t believe that there is less churchgoers here. In fact, I was told one time, and I can’t document this either, that there were more churches per capita in Las Vegas than any other city of this size in the United States. I’ve heard that before somewhere, but I don’t know where I’d get it. What kinds of recreation did you have in those days, and would you tell us a little something about the Helldorado Parades, what they were like, and did everybody participate? The Helldorado Parades in those days were absolutely fantastic. Everybody took part; it’s just something that the family, if he wasn’t part of the parade or Helldorado and someway felt left out—in those days, in a kid parade, on a Friday afternoon, we used to get dressed up, and I never will forget, another friend of mine, Paul Hampton and I, we were probably in the second or third grade, and we dressed up as bums and we won second prize, and they gave us a quarter. We each got twenty-five cents. And the fella that took first prize, his name was Norman Smith, and they UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 10 gave him fifty cents. And I can remember that, I can remember marching in each one of those parades as a member of the Fifth Street School Band, or as a class. They were great. I remember the Helldorado and the rodeo used to be on the old race grounds, which was down behind the post office at the end of Third Street where Stewart is now. There was a regular racetrack down there in the grandstand, and that’s where we had Helldorado. It certainly isn’t similar to the ones we have now, is it? No, in those days, too, we had a Helldorado Village, which was right at the North Fifth Street there. It’s where Bonanza is now, and I know there wasn’t a Bonanza. But we had a little village in there, and that’s where the carnival was, and all the, you know, where you threw darts and things and baseballs and all that kind of thing. But the main rodeo was held at that old race grounds right behind where the post office is today. The other recreational activities then were kind of like what we have now. We went to Mt. Charleston and we went to Lake Mead. In those days, a trip to either one of those places, because the road was an all-day affair, when you went in the morning, you stayed all day, and you came home that evening. And the only way you could get to Lake Mead was to go all the way over and in through Boulder City, and in those days, they had a guy sitting in a little house outside of Boulder City, and he’d count all the people—they didn’t have any way to count ‘em—so the guy sat in that house and counted the people in each car as he went by. And I remember, every time we went by, us kids used to always duck, ‘cause we thought that was a big deal so that they couldn’t count us. (Laughs) What about social clubs or other special interests groups, such as Rotary and—were they important, and tell us a little bit about that. Well they, of course, were important because my dad was a member of the Kiwanis Club. I remember that, and I’m sure that there was a Rotary Club here then, too, although I don’t UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 11 remember it. I remember when my father was the president one year of Kiwanis Club, and I’m sure there were some other things. I’m sure there were some things for the women, but being a youngster, I don’t remember exactly what they were and how they were or when they met, things like that. What about politics? Were there a lot of people interested in politics, and of course, during the forties, you were in high school and grade school, so you wouldn’t have become involved, but what about your parents? Well, what’s funny is, we’re Republicans, and my father and mother were some of the very first Republicans in Las Vegas. I bet at that time, I don’t know how many people were active in politics. I remember Ernie Cragin was the mayor—he’s the only one I can remember going way back, ‘cause I remember when we used to go to the El Portal Theatre, and my dad, mother, and the family, when he’d see my dad out standing waiting to buy a ticket, or if he bought a ticket, he always went and always gave me his money, so we always got in free because of the mayor, Ernie Cragin, at that time. But I’m sure there was politics and political activity, but I don’t remember it in detail. Do you remember any important persons, divorces, marriages or scandals that might prove to be interesting to us that took place at that time? No, I can’t help you. I don’t remember anything. I do remember that, and very slightly, that actress had got killed that was in the airplane wreck. Carole Lombard. Right. But I only remember the wreck—I remember the thing up on the mountain, and I couldn’t tell you any of the dates or what year it was. I remember it being there. I’m sure that there were UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 12 marriages here that were probably significant throughout the world or United States, but I don’t remember who they were. What about any disasters, any that took place that might be worth noting? I remember one year when it rained awful hard, and we did have a lot of water running around, couple of feet. In those days, the lower Downtown was all up—you know, it was quite a giant curb, most places, so it didn’t hurt anything—just one of those things that happened. But I really don’t remember in those early days anything bad except in the summer it was hot and in the winter it was cold. What about the early aboveground atomic testing? Do you remember anything about those at all? Yes, I remember those all right. That came after I was out of high school and kind of in between high school and college and this kind of thing. Yeah, I remember those, and they shook the buildings, and it was just like a gigantic earthquake. The first one, if I remember, broke several windows Downtown. But the buildings did shake, and the curtains stood out just like people said they would. I remember getting up and seeing a few of them go off, although you weren’t supposed to look at them directly. I remember the first ones, then. They did shake every bit as much as some of the earthquakes they had in Southern California. What important changes have you noticed in Southern Nevada, George, since you first arrived, and I would like to have you elaborate on any economic changes, environmental changes, or social changes that have taken place or that you have noted with interest? Well, of course, the tourist industry has done things for Las Vegas that nothing else could. From three or four casinos that I can remember to what there is today, it’s phenomenal. People ask me why we don’t own a lot of property and why we’re not rich, and all I can say is, well, even in UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 13 those days when my father had a tough time making a buck as a preacher to feed us, and when we ate, we ate good, and that’s the best he could do. So we didn’t end up with—but some of the families that had the foresight and maybe even the money to buy and to build, they have made a gigantic amount of money in Las Vegas. I can remember when I was a kid, and maybe this is just a little bit off the subject, in those days what we call Block 16, which were all houses of prostitution—us kids thought it was a big deal to ride our bikes down the alley and holler at the people who were involved over there. And of course, that’s gone, but still you have a lot of it around. And everything involved in Southern Nevada is directly involved with the tourists or the gambling. Even though I am not involved with it, the people I do business with are directly involved with it, so it made gigantic changes. I can’t believe what’s happened to Southern Nevada except, you look outside today, the weather’s almost perfect, you go the rest of the United States or in the east, they’re freezing to death—the weather itself has had a lot to do with it. What about social changes? A lot of social changes take place? Well, of course, with a business like gambling, also, your other problems have come forth. I don’t remember, and I’m sure there was in those days, a welfare system. But you talk to some of the people who are involved in churches today or the welfare or Salvation Army, and they’ll tell you that the problems have magnified many, many times. We have people who lost their paycheck every Friday instead of taking it home and buying their kids groceries. I guess that’s what they call social changes. The decline in the church membership here is like it is all over the United States or the world—just something that’s happening. I won’t comment on it, although something will have to be done to change it. So I don’t know what to say other than, any time UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 14 you have an easy money thing, you’re going to have other problems with people that aren’t going to do what they should do. What about minority groups in the forties? Were there many groups here then? Well, yes. I went to school with the colored kids. I never can remember when there wasn’t a colored or Mexican person in or around my class. In fact, I can remember a Japanese family, the Animoto family, that group up right here just exactly like we did. They were always—so there wasn’t anything involved, any racial overtone, except, I do remember, when I was along in the fifth or sixth grade, that they had some kind of fight in the Las Vegas High School where Black and White kids were involved with each other, and that’s the only time I can ever remember. But I can’t ever remember going to school without a Black child being in my school or without a Japanese child, because the Animoto family was here, and happened to have a boy the same age as I am. Do you remember anything about the Old Ranch, formerly the Stewart Ranch, which is now known at the Mormon Fort? Oh, yes. We used to go swimming down there. It’s located right there at the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard North and Washington Street. They had the coldest swimming pool in world, but it was great. And that reminds me, too, we also, in those days, there was a swimming pool right at the corner of Fremont and Fifth Street called the Mermaid Swimming Pool, and that’s where we went swimming most of the time. There was also a swimming pool out at Twin Lakes, and they called it the Lorenzi Ranch. But the Old Fort or the LDS Fort there, or whatever they call it, there was a big swimming pool and it was fed by a natural spring, so that’s why it was so cold. Can you describe any of the buildings on the Old Ranch property then? UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 15 No, you know, all I can remember, it was a fence around a pool, and there was some things, what do you call them, change houses where boys and girls would go in to change their clothes. I don’t remember any of the buildings. I guess, being a youngster, you really didn’t pay attention and probably didn’t even care that it was something that you should have paid attention to. Did you know an individual or could you describe an individual who worked at or was associated with the Old Ranch at any time? No, I don’t remember anybody. I’m sure there were, but my father probably knew them, but I just didn’t, ‘cause I was a youngster, and who cared, you know. You went swimming there and thought that was great, and then you left. George, are there any key points about Las Vegas that you feel might be of interest which we have not covered in this interview in the past years of the forties and the late thirties that you’d like to tell us about? Well, it’s hard to pinpoint any places, because I don’t believe—you know, most of Downtown has been changed. They tore the buildings down or moved them. Our old house that we lived in there at 308 Bridger Street is gone. The courthouse, which now takes up that whole block, the county courthouse—in those days, it was a little tiny building in the middle, and a bandstand outside. And they used to have band concerts there. Every year, there was a gigantic Christmas tree put up there or decorated—I don’t remember—seemed like they brought it in, but I’m not sure about that. Places like that are gone. The Presbyterian Church—there was, I believe it was at Second and Carson, is gone. And also, you talk Lorenzi Park, where Twin Lakes is today—in those days, my dad tried to get the city to buy that. The man wanted $30- or $35,000 for it. And the city thought that was too much money because it was too far out, and nobody could get there. In later years, the city bought that, and I think the price was, like, five or six, maybe seven times UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 16 of what the original price was. Things like that. Oh, there’s probably other things I can’t even think of. The old stockyards is gone; that used to be the greatest thing, when we could drive over to the stockyards and watch them unloading the cattle and the sheep, ‘cause they had to feed them ‘cause it took so long to get to Los Angeles. Now, those things are gone. Now, there wasn’t, of course, a Charleston Boulevard, there wasn’t very much of Fifth Street, very little of Main Street. There was a little bit of North Las Vegas. There was absolutely nothing except a little town called Whitney and a little town called Pitman between Las Vegas and Boulder City. And, of course, in those days, the dam was named Boulder Dam, and they changed that in later years. I did want to ask you something, George, if you remember any of the visits of the presidents or other important people to the Las Vegas area, such as President Roosevelt or Hoover during that time? No, I don’t remember that at all. If they were, and I’m sure maybe they were, I just don’t remember it. We didn’t have school buses in those days, so if they came, maybe it was after I was out of school. The only ones I remember, of course, were the recent ones which everybody does. What about the construction that was being done at Hoover Dam? Any specific incidents there that your parents might have discussed or you can remember? No, I can remember going to the dam several times, going down through some of the tunnels before they were completed. I’m sure, in fact, there’s a monument up out there now of some of the men who were killed, and I’m sure there were headlines in the papers in those days—speaking of papers in those days, we had the Review-Journal, and I don’t think that was the exact name of it. But we had a man, a lady, or Pop and Mom Squires, that had a newspaper that was UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 17 like a magazine, I guess you would call it, I don’t know if it was a tabloid or what. And that was one of the finest newspapers we had. I’m not sure why it was ever discontinued or whether that was when the Las Vegas Sun came in and bought them out, or even if they did buy them out. But Mom and Pop Squires were two of the original Las Vegas people and probably two of the finest people that ever lived and probably had more influence over Las Vegas in the way it has grown or started to grow than anybody else other than Ernie Cragin. What about movie theaters, George? Did you ever go to the movies? Oh, yes. There was theaters I can remember: the Palace Theatre, which was on Second Street between Bridger and Carson—in fact, I believe it’s still there—and the El Portal Theatre Downtown, which, I believe, is still in the same spot. And then like I said earlier, Ernie Cragin, who was the mayor of Las Vegas and owned the El Portal Theatre. And when we went, of course my father being a preacher, very, very rarely did we have to buy tickets. Ernie Cragin would see my dad come in, and he just couldn’t buy anything. We, also in those days, only had one hospital, the Las Vegas Hospital, which since has stopped operation. The Southern Nevada Memorial Hospital in those days was an old CC Camp, and I believe they turned that into a hospital a little bit later. I don’t know exactly when it was, but I can remember the old CC buildings out there. But those two theaters were the only ones I can remember. What about doctors, do you remember any of the old doctors that were—? Well, I remember Dr. Hardy and Dr. Allen at the Las Vegas Hospital, and I think Dr. Woodbury was there then. I remember Dr. Slaven, in those days, was a railroad doctor, and he had a little office right up against the railroad tracks along Main Street there, about where Ogden comes into Main. He had an office along in there. There could be some others that I don’t remember. I UNLV University Libraries George Gilbert 18 remember those, ‘cause all of them at one time worked on me or worked on somebody in our family. Okay, George. Thank you very much for your help on this project, and we appreciate your giving us your time. Well, I’m tickled that you asked me. There’s probably a lot more things that we could remember and talk about, but, you know, just sitting here, I can’t think of ‘em all, and after you leave, I’ll think of a hundred of ‘em that might be just as interesting. But talking about the old times and the old days in Las Vegas and what it was then, what it is now, is a fantastic thing, and I’m just tickled to death I was part of it, ‘cause I love it here, and I would never live anywhere else. Thank you for your help on this project, George, in the interests of the history of Southern Nevada.