Transcript of interview with Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford by Caroline Logsdon, March 20, and April 7, 1976

UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford i An Interview with Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford An Oral History Conducted by Carolyn Logsdon Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford iv Abstract On March 20, 1976 Caroline Logsdon interviewed Pauline Barlow (unknown date or place of birth) about her life in Southern Nevada. Barlow first talks about her move to Las Vegas at a young age, her church membership, and her membership in social clubs. She also talks about gambling, the atomic testing, and the changes she has seen over time in Las Vegas. On April 7, 1976, Logsdon also interviewed Katie Ford (born 1929 in Ely Nevada) about her life in Southern Nevada. Ford talks about her early life and education in Nevada in Beatty, Nevada, her work with her family-owned gas station and hotel, and some of the early buildings in Beatty. She also discusses early recreational activities, the atomic testing, economic and environmental changes, improvement in technology, and social changes. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 1 This is an interview with Pauline Barlow, age fifty-one, resident of Las Vegas, and it’s done by Caroline Logsdon, Nevada History student in Dr. Ralph Roske’s class. This is March 20th, 1976. Mrs. Barlow, were you born in Southern Nevada? No, I was not. What age were you when you came here? Fifteen. Did you come here with your family? Yes, I did. Do you have any idea what prompted your family to move to Southern Nevada? Promise of employment. Well, what did your father do? He was a construction or heavy duty equipment operator. And has he followed that line of work since he’s moved here? Yes, he has. Do you want me to continue about what he did? Oh, sure. He was in, basically, when he came here, he went to work at Nellis Air Force Base when they started building it, and then after that, he went to the El Rancho and helped build the El Rancho. Oh, that’s interesting. And from there, when the war started, he went to Basic Magnesium and was employed there, and after the war, he went to the Bureau of Reclamation in Boulder City and was employed there until he came back to Las Vegas and went to work for the city, or the state I should say, as a heavy duty equipment operator, which he retired from there. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 2 Did he have anything to do with the building of the dam, or was he around there at the time when they were building it? No, he was doing painting there and in the upkeep of the dam. After it had already been built. After it had been built, mm-hmm. Okay. Did you attend schools here in Southern Nevada? No, I did not. I attended in Colorado. So then you came back shortly after your graduation? Yes. About how old were you when you came back to this area? I was sixteen. Oh, then you’ve seen a lot of changes, right? I certainly have. You’ve lived in Las Vegas area ever since that time? Yes, I have. Oh, boy. What prompted you to—well, you came with your family. You liked it, evidently, or you wouldn’t have stayed here, right? Well, I was with my husband during the war, when he was in the service, at other places, but none of them appealed to me like Las Vegas. Were you active in church in this community? Yes. My mother is extremely active, and therefore I was, too. She was a member of the Assembly of God Church, which is now on Westside, and she was secretary, treasurer of the UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 3 church for twenty-five years until they moved to their new headquarters on St. Lewis Street at the new Trinity Temple. Is the old church still there? The old church is still standing there and is being used by another group—I don’t know which group that has it now, but it’s still being used. What is the location of the church there? It’s in West Las Vegas, I think around D Street. I don’t know that exact address. Do you know when it was originally built? Oh, it would be in the early thirties. Early thirties. Since you’ve been here, have you seen or met any famous people or seen any events that would be well-known in history? Well, the most impressionable person that I saw—I did not meet or get to talk to, was President Kennedy. Oh, here in town, huh? Yes, I went to see him at the convention center and heard his speech, and I was most thoroughly impressed. Over a period of time, I have seen numerous ones, but none stayed in my mind like that meeting did. That’s true. Well, quite a few personalities from Hollywood and what have you come through town from time to time. I imagine you’ve seen quite a few of them. Oh, I sure have, and I had a thrill last night—I waited on Engelbert Humperdinck. Oh, wow. Perhaps you could name a few of the others that you have seen or waited on or, you know. Well, I have seen Howard Hughes. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 4 Oh, you have? Hey. But that’s been many years ago. Do you remember when they went? I haven’t— At the El Rancho? Downtown. Oh, Downtown. And, well, you know Chill Wills, and I can’t even remember all of ‘em. There’s been quite a number of them, I’m not too movie-impressed, though. Were you or are you a member of any social club or other special interests groups here in Las Vegas? My most special interest is Beta Sigma Phi, and I have been a member since 1957. And I’m quite involved in it; it’s a cultural and social organization. We do a lot of service work, and I’ve held all of the offices, including city council presidency, and it’s just really my main interest. I see you have been active, I can see that. Any other that you’d like to mention? I have been a member of ADWA and PTA and various other organizations, but none has held my interest like Beta Sigma Phi. Well, have you seen that organization in this town grow, say, perhaps from maybe one to many different groups? Tremendously. When I went into Beta Sigma Phi, there were four chapters, and we now have twenty-six. Oh, boy. That’s quite a growth. Is or was gambling an important recreational activity for you or your family? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 5 No, I can’t say that gambling is one of our things. It never has been, although I will have to say that gambling is very important because I have made my living from gambling. What other kinds of recreation do you enjoy in this area? My biggest recreation is fishing. And this is a good place for that. Right. Fishing and water skiing, and I bowl also. Do you remember anything about the early aboveground atomic tests that were made here in Southern Nevada? Yes, I remember every one of them because I was working graveyard at the old Sills Drive-In, and every time they had a shot, we could look out into the sky and see— Could you see the mushroom? The mushroom. Really? Yes. We’d see the mushroom, and also we could feel it very significantly. The doors would swing right open and shut several times. It shook the building that hard. What about light? Could you see the light? Now, that I don’t recall. As I recall, it was just, looked real bright, and possibly there was a slight orange glare to it or whatever, but it was definitely known when a shot was set off. What kind of remarks do you remember being made about that at the time? How did people feel about it? The first one that I can remember, I can remember how much it frightened me; I was extremely frightened because we really didn’t know what it was all about, but I think most everyone, including myself, just took it in our stride. It was something that had to be done, and I don’t UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 6 remember too many comments against it. But there was quite a bit of building damage, including my home, from it. Oh, really? I’ve got cracks (unintelligible). What changes have you noticed in Southern Nevada since you arrived? And that’s a big question, ‘cause I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of them, but let’s start with economic changes and the economy. Well, speaking personally, I can’t even remember what wages I was making. I worked at the Western Inn, and that was on Fremont Street, and I don’t even remember how much I made, but the money wasn’t very much. And then when I went into waitress work, I was getting $2.87 an hour compared to what we’re getting now. It’s been quite a jump as far as personal advantages. How about the building of the community, all the hotels and apartments, would you say it’s—? When we came here, there were about 6,000 people, and actually the town ended at Fifth Street. There were homes built from Main to Fifth Street, and some of them were taken in and turned into restaurants and different type businesses. When we first came here, we lived in Gables Motel on Twelfth Street, which was way out of town, and we used to hear the coyotes and there would be rabbits and everything coming up to the backyard. Housing was impossible—you could not find a house, you couldn’t even find a place to live in. And when my husband and I came back from Colorado, we had to live with my mother and dad in a two-room hotel for months and months. Then, finally, Mother and Dad found a house out at the old Four Mile, and of course, everybody knows what Four Mile is, the old Roxy’s is right behind it—that’s the area. I can also remember the red light district Downtown. We would go down there, but ladies didn’t UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 7 walk on that side of the street; you walked across the street. And it’s still very impressionable in my mind, I can still see them. Where is this located? It was on First and Fremont between Fremont and Ogden. And I can still see it. One thing I have of interest that might be interesting to other people is I have, at home in my antiques, I have a spittoon from the old Camel Saloon. And when you say Camel Saloon, a lot of people don’t even remember. No. I believe that’s even before my time. I don’t recall ever seeing it. But at the age I was when I came here, things that are important to me now weren’t important then. And it’s really hard to think back and remember all of the changes, that I can remember that we did have some board sidewalks Downtown. You did? And I can remember that you walked down the street and you knew everybody you met. Oh. How about the streets? Were they paved, or were there a lot of dirt—? You know, that’s what I’ve been trying to remember. I don’t know if they were paved at that particular time or not; I cannot remember. And if they were, it was just strictly Downtown. That’s right, that’s what I meant. Now, all the little ones coming from Boulder Highway cross the Strip, all of those, like, Tropicana and all of those were just dirt roads. Right. ‘Cause I remember that myself. And I can also remember the first strip tease show I saw; I saw it at the old Kit Kat Club, which was later turned into the Saddle Club and is now the Silver Dollars. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 8 Oh my goodness. And the first hotel that really impressed me was the Colony Club, which was built across the street from the Silver Dollar. And I saw my first floor show there, and I thought it was fantastic. And then it burned to the ground. It was never rebuilt. Can you remember any of the other places of business Downtown that are no longer there? Oh, there’s a lot of them that are not there. I can remember the Apache Hotel and the old cigar store is not there any longer. The banks are not on the street that were on— Were they on corners down on Fremont? Yeah, on the corners down on Fremont Street, where I did all my banking. They’re moved out now. They’re not there anymore. And I Know that one house say on Fremont Street between Fourth and Fifth—for many, many years there were businesses built around it, and they wouldn’t sell the house. And then up on the other side of the street, they had a restaurant and an old family style, you could go in and sit down and have friend chicken and bowls of vegetables and hot biscuits and all those sort of good things. Do you remember the name of the people who owned that house you were telling me about? You know, I cannot remember. I was thinking about it the other day, and I can’t remember their names. They finally had to tear it down. Mm-hmm. Well, how about the environmental changes here? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 9 Well, from the time I came here till now, it’s been tremendous. I can remember that if we ever had four percent humidity at that particular time, we were sweltering—we thought it was terrible because we didn’t have air conditioning. Our air conditioning was, open up the window, wet a burlap bag and hang it up, and let the wind blow through, and that was our air conditioning. That was, oh, for a number of years. And from there, it went to the swamp coolers, and then when we got modern, we had our air conditioning. But it’s been a tremendous change in our environment. Of course, I have to say I like it like it used to be. You do? Oh, yes. I like the thoughts and ideas of the old days, but I wouldn’t want to go back and go through all of the struggles and the hardships, because when we bought out house in 1946, which I’m still living in, our house payment was $43.03 a month, and I had to struggle like crazy to make those payments, so I really wouldn’t care to go back to that. But it’s still like you like the good old days. What about traffic? Well, that wasn’t even a problem. No. Not compared to now. No way. There just weren’t that many cars. And did you have any traffic signals at all in town when you first moved here, can you remember? Well, you know, I really can’t remember, because I was old enough to drive when I came here, but we only had a 1936 Chevy, and it was used for my father’s transportation, and so I never really had a car at my disposal. The thing that I remember the most as far as streets is the old (unintelligible) wagon seated at the (unintelligible) Railroad. It was always a thrill to see those. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 10 Did anyone at all run a wagon down the street still? I saw one not too long ago myself, but I think it was just for publicity, one going down the Strip, but did you ever see any horses on the street at all, or wagons? Well, you know, it’s very hard for me to remember things like that because I really, I’m sure that there was, but basically, I don’t remember of them myself. The family is involved with horses—my father was a charter member of the Mounted Sheriff’s Posse, and we’ve always been involved very heavily with Helldorado and all that activities that were concerned. But most of the things of history, I really don’t have them down as pad as I should. Do you remember when Helldorado first was celebrated here? I believe it was in 1936. It’s been going a long time. In 1936 or 1937, I couldn’t be positive, but a very long time. It was our main interest, I mean, the whole town’s interest at that time. It’s very commercial now compared to what it used to be. The gambling was going pretty strong when you first moved here? Oh, yes. But there weren’t very many hotels—why don’t we talk a little bit about the Strip and how it built up. How many were here when you first moved here? There were none. None? There were none. Oh. You saw the El Rancho—that’s right, your dad worked on the El Rancho. The only one that was up I believe, at that time, was the Bingo Club, where the Sahara is now. But there were not hotels, because my father was involved in the construction of the El Rancho. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 11 And where the buildings went from there, I don’t know. I have a list of them at home, and I have pictures, but I couldn’t begin to give you the dates of when the other hotels were built. Did it seem like the El Rancho was a rather large hotel for the town, the way it was at that time? It seemed very fancy and very big, and I didn’t think anybody would ever be able to afford to stay in it. And then as they kept popping up, you kept wondering if we’d lost our minds, huh? Well, the El Rancho and the Thunderbird were always our favorite, where we could go to the dinner shows and it didn’t cost us too much, and it was really a weekly thing. We saw everybody that came in, and we could have dinner on the second show or a sandwich or whatever you wanted, and it was our recreation. Back in the early days of the Strip, do you feel that the hotels gave more services and more things free of charge and at lesser prices to the customers than they do nowadays? Oh, definitely, because that’s how they got the business started. Individuals always give more than the corporations do. What about the manner of dress that you’ve observed on the Strip, how it’s changed over the years? Well, originally it was casual, and then over a period of time it went to high fashion, and now I can see it drifting back again to the casual wear. But when it first started, it was casual? Yes. I didn’t know that. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 12 Well, in the beginning, everybody here was Western. I wore nothing but Western clothes for maybe twenty years. I didn’t have any other kind of clothes. We wore Western clothes—Western boots, Western pants, Western hats, shirts—everybody wore Western clothes. Was there any mining activity at all around this area? Oh, yes. There was a lot of mining area, even around the mountains around us, and there’re still some mines that are being worked a little bit, not too much. I have a rock at home from the Potosi Mine. Where is that located, the Potosi Mine? I couldn’t give you definite directions on that right now. And I also have a whiskey flask from the old Bullfrog Mine. Would you be willing to participate in a longer interview if requested? Yes, I would be interested. Do you have any pictures or anything that you would be willing to give a copy of to the library at the university? That’s quite possible. I’d have a big job of sorting through them, though. Well, I certainly have enjoyed talking with you, Mrs. Barlow, and you’ll be hearing from us. We do appreciate it. Okay, good. It’s been fun. [Audio ends] April 7th, 1976. This is an interview done by Carol Logsdon for Nevada History with Dr. Ralph Roske, and the subject of the interview is Katie Ford, a resident of Las Vegas. Mrs. Ford, were you born in Southern Nevada? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 13 I was born in Ely, Nevada in 1929. Did you live there long? No. We lived there for about a year, and then we moved over to Eureka, Nevada, and my father—bootleg whiskey during the Depression days and made enough money to buy two homes in Tonopah. And we lived there for about a year, and then in 1931, we moved down to Beatty. And there, they brought really different businesses. Do you remember why your family originally came to Nevada? Well, not really. I think this was something, a new place to settle. My father was born in Missouri across the Plains when he was four years old, and they settled in Spokane County and grew the first apple trees that were grown there, around with other people, too. Then when he was sixteen, he ran away from home and worked his way shoveling coal on a boat and went to Alaska, and we worked in the goldmines in Alaska for six years—he had dogsleds and just worked a real rustic life up there. And then he came back to the states and homesteaded some land in Oregon and met my mother there; she was born in Oregon. And after they were married, they moved to Idaho for a while and then we came down to Ely, Nevada. And I think probably it was mining in the boom days that brought him there. Did he have a mine? He worked in mines most of his life, a good part of his life. He worked in Ely in mines there and he worked in Rawhide, Nevada, oh, probably about 1903 and made quite a lot of money in Rawhide. He had a rich strike there, and he purchased this before he married my mother and he went to San Francisco with that money and had a good time on it. Were you educated here in Nevada? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 14 Yes, I was. I went through eleventh grade in Beatty, I went to school in Beatty. We had one large schoolhouse that was separated into two rooms. One room was for first through fourth grade, and with one teacher teaching all the grades, and the other one was from fifth to eighth grade with, again, another teacher, just one teacher teaching all four grades. The high school was just a little, kind of a mining shaft, small, probably about twelve by twenty, and we had a little wood stove in there that we had to keep stoked up during the winter, and we had one teacher, and he was a basketball coach and taught us to play ball and all those things. And usually, there were only about, oh, thirty students in each of the grade school rooms; in high school, varied anywhere from about five to about fifteen—I don’t think they ever get more than fifteen students in high school there during the time I went to school. And awful lot of Indian children there, a lot of Indian people lived in Beatty and surrounding Death Valley, there were quite a few new people down there, and the kids came up to Beatty to go to school. Did you have any Chinese people living there at that time? No, we didn’t. There was a Chinese family in Tonopah that had stayed over from the early mining days; there were a lot of Chinese people in this area at that time, in the early 1900s. And there was one Chinese man that our family that lived in Tonopah when I was little—I remember, we used to go up there, my brother bought firecrackers and fireworks from him. He always had them. Do you remember how the people reacted to the Chinese in those days? No, I don’t. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about the type of things you did as a young girl when you growing up helping your family? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 15 Well, recreation-wise, I used to ride desert burros, and we’d watch the train come in, and just things like that—going on hikes in the mountains. But I had to help my fam—when I worked, I had to help make beds and help bring in the wood and the coal for the coal stove, the wood stove, and that sort of thing. I worked in the gasoline station. I was pumping gas by the time I was eight or nine years old, and then during the war, there were no young man or nobody to help my father, so I had to pump gas and change tires and really get into the swing of service station work. That was his gas station? Yes. What else did he own there in town? Well, they owned a saloon, and old-fashioned saloon, a bar, and he did make a, remodeled it and made a cocktail lounge, but it was just an old-fashioned saloon, pull up the tables and (unintelligible). And it burnt down in 1941; it was very busy there, and it was (unintelligible) caught on fire on burned down. Did you have a hotel also? Yes, we lived in a hotel; it was nineteen rooms. The family lived in it. We had, as I said, we had a wood stove, and (unintelligible) had water for the family and the guests. We had about ten rooms that we rented out to (unintelligible) people going through, and I think the rooms rented for $1.50 and $2.00, and I think she had one—we had one that we rented for, like, $2.50. That had the stovepipe going up through, and it was real nice and warm. What other occupations did you have in the state of Nevada when you first started working? Did you start working in Beatty? UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 16 I worked in Beatty, yes I did. I worked in the soda fountain; I made twenty-five cents an hour. I started working when I was about twelve years old there, working the soda fountain, making sundaes and serving sandwiches and that type of thing. What prompted you to move to Las Vegas? Well, there was work here, and my husband was also—I’ve always done waitress work, and then my husband was (unintelligible) in that type of work with (unintelligible) so that’s why we came here. You were married in Nevada? Yes, I got married in Reno. We lived in Northern California and (unintelligible) but we got married in Reno. And my mother was still living in Beatty at the time, so it was also met with another factor in moving here, because it was close. Was there any kind of church activity going on in Beatty at the time that you lived there, and what type of church did you attend? We had an adobe church built out of the building; it was quite rustic. And (unintelligible) I think they were. And the minister came from out of town someplace; we had Sunday school once a week, and we had church services with an Episcopalian minister that came. And now, I think they have two churches in Beatty now; they have people living there, ministers live there now. Can you remember any famous people coming through this town, any activities that took place here that might be well known in history that you might have observed? Well, when I was about four or five years old, Senator Scrugham—he was a state senator of Nevada—came through. Of course, he had to come through quite often, going back from Reno then to Carson City down to Las Vegas. But Senator Scrugham stopped me on the street, and he gave me some little pieces of opals that came from Ely; Ely had a lot of gemstones, garnets and UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 17 that type of thing. And he gave me these little pieces (unintelligible) and I still have to this day. And then, of course, with the gas station and the bar, Pat McCarran would come through, we’d stop and gas up. And several of the state officials would stop there and (unintelligible). Of course, Nevada is such a friendly state that everybody knows everybody after the first meeting. That’s true. Was your father a gambler? Yes, he gambled. We had, of course, as I said in the bar, he had the gambling tables. In fact, he won the (unintelligible) train depot in a gambling game, poker game, from a man. Oh, I would say that was about 1935 that he won that. And he owned it for a few years and sold it, and now it’s, I think, a bar, and kind of a (unintelligible) out there. But I thought that was interesting. (Unintelligible) old depot. Very. I understand some of the buildings in Beatty were brought in from Rhyolite; would you describe how that took place? Well, the hotel that we lived in was a two-story hotel, and it originally was built in Rhyolite, and then (unintelligible) to Beatty with horses and on skids and horses (unintelligible) and we went over there. It’s about five or five-and-a-half miles. And the train would (unintelligible). It must have been a job, but they did it, and it was still intact. Also, the hotel across the street was moved from Rhyolite to Beatty in the early 1900s. What type of buildings did they have there originally when it was a mining town? Well, of course, it was a little boom town, and they just threw up these little, we called them mining shacks; they’re just one-by-twelves on one side and wallpaper on the other and no insulation, and of course, they were one-room things, you know, little stove in ‘em, and that was it. And that was mainly what Beatty consisted of. But in later years, they built many homes down UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 18 in Tonopah, and the old Goldfield homes—there’s several of them in Beatty now—and they’re tearing down all the older ones, putting up nicer homes and (unintelligible). What type of recreation did you have there in Beatty as a little girl? Well, we had dances, and we had basketball games to go to, and the town had a little hardball, you know, they played ball with surrounding areas, the Shoshone, and then we’d have these little old-fashioned box socials. A lot of people probably don’t know that today, but the ladies all got together and made themselves a real fancy little box and put a pack of real good lunch in it, and then the fellas would bid on it and the highest bidder would get it, and he didn’t know who made it, so (unintelligible) that night, and it was to dance with the rest of the evening. And that was kind of fun. You didn’t have a whole lot to do? You had to kind of make your own— Yeah, you really made your own fun. Of course, a lot of people in the bars and (unintelligible) had a town hall; they (unintelligible) building that they made a gymnasium out of and we’d have dances there, and most of the social functions were held there. Do you remember anything about the aboveground atomic tests that were first here in Nevada? Well, yes. When one went off, an extremely large one went off, we were living in Southern California, and we could see the light; it was really tremendous. And, of course, there were quite a few after that, that were, I don’t think, as large. And I remember people saying if it was a little extra cloudy or it looked like fog or something, people would say that was really a bomb when it wasn’t—I don’t think anyone ever knew. Okay, let’s talk about some of the changes that you’ve noticed through the years living here in Nevada—economic changes, for instance, in the state as you first knew it. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 19 Well, when I was real little, mining was the main thing in Nevada, I think. Of course, now gambling is the main industry, and it has changed a great deal, especially the southern part of Nevada (unintelligible). Can you tell me about some of the things that you noticed as it grew and where things were different from the way they are now—the roads and the buildings? Well, I remember when they paved the road from Reno down to Las Vegas; I was about five, I guess. I remember I couldn’t go barefooted anymore—the highway was too hot to walk across. There weren’t as many buildings as there are now—you saw the Strip grow up from nothing to what it is today, I’m sure. Oh, yes, of course. They built the El Rancho, and that was clear out of town. When they built the El Cortez, it was out of town, down on Sixth Street. We thought nobody would ever get down that far to even patronize them. And then when the Flamingo went up, that was further still, and Tropicana was further still, and you just couldn’t understand why there were (unintelligible) far out of town, and now that’s the center of all the activity. Did the people at that time think that there would ever be a need for that many hotels here? Oh, no. (Unintelligible) You sometimes wish you’d bought some property out there? Yes, we have more hindsight than foresight, you know? (Laughs) (Laughs) How about the environmental changes here in this part of the country, such as the humidity? Well, when the dam went in, I think that added to the humidity. All the golf courses and that type of thing. UNLV University Libraries Pauline Barlow and Katie Ford 20 So, what type of cooling systems did they have when you were young? Well, we didn’t have any. I remember when we got our first icebox. We had what was known as a desert cooler; we had it sitting on the back porch, and that was made out