Transcript of interview with John and Mabel Dillingham by Sonny Le Jeune, March 19, 1978

UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham i An Interview with John and Mabel Dillingham An Oral History Conducted by John F. Sonny Le Jeune Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham iv Abstract On March 19, 1978, John (Sonny) Le Jeune interviewed John (born 1904 in Trail Creek, Idaho) and Mabel Dillingham. The two provide many historical accounts of Las Vegas, Nevada, including John’s work on the railroad, the development of the city, and their living conditions when first moving to Las Vegas. The three also discuss prominent members of the community, recreational activities, church membership, and popular attractions around Las Vegas. Other topics include the building of Hoover Dam, the site of the Stewart Ranch, early irrigation systems, flood control, and Block 16. Photograph reproductions can be viewed in the Appendix. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 1 My name is Sonny Le Jeune. I’ll be interviewing Mr. and Mrs. John Dillingham. Mrs. Dillingham will come into the tape later on. We will be discussing the significance of the railroad and Hoover Dam had on Las Vegas. Also, we will be talking about the schools, churches, and recreational activities of early Las Vegas. We’ll also get into come content about the lifestyle of the Old Ranch. Your name is? John Dillingham. And your address? 5194 Shepherd’s Circle. And your sex? Male. Male. Birthplace? Grace, Idaho. Nationality? English. And language spoken? English. Okay, the places you lived prior to coming to Nevada? Central Utah and Eastern Oklahoma, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas. Personally, when did you come to Las Vegas? To live permanently? Yes, sir. 1937. 1937. What brought you to Las Vegas, Nevada? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 2 I worked for the railroad. The railroad? Yes. All right. So, what did you do prior to the railroad? Various labor jobs, a little mining. And while you worked for the railroad, what was your occupation as far as your job-wise? I was a fireman and an engineer. Okay. How long have you lived in Nevada now? Forty-five years. Forty-five. And you are retired now, right? Yes. All right. When did you retire? 1961. And marriage-wise, did you marry in Las Vegas? No. No? In Missouri. Did you bring your wife to Las Vegas, Nevada? I brought her to Los Angeles first and then to Las Vegas. Can you tell me, were there any children? Yes. Okay. How many children do you have? Two. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 3 Two? Can you tell me a little bit about your children, please? My oldest son Don is a (unintelligible) at Caesars Palace, and (unintelligible) school here. And my youngest son has been working for the railroad for a number of years. Okay, Mr. Dillingham, could you tell me what really brought you to Las Vegas at the time? My job. At the railroad? Yes. When you came to Las Vegas, how big was the railroad? Was there a lot of people working on the railroads, or was the town just now getting built at the time? Did the railroad play a big part in the building of the town? Well, the railroad and the construction of Hoover Dam. Right. Probably the Hoover Dam. The railroad was practically (unintelligible). Originally, it had some shops, a lot of liquor shops here and moved them to Los Angeles (unintelligible). So, you would say that the railroad had a big part in the town of Las Vegas? The railroad was the main reason for the start of the town. So, why did they have the railroad here in Las Vegas? ‘Cause of the artesian water. Artesian wells? Yes. Springs and wells. Could you tell me, say, some of the locations of the wells? On West Charleston; most of them are on West Charleston. So what would be the reason for that? You were using, what, steaming in that time, right? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 4 Yes. And that’s why you had to have the water? Yes. Okay. Can you give me a little bit of the description, say, of the town when you arrived here? Some of the buildings, streets, how many—were there a lot of buildings here, some of the housing, how was the housing when you came? Well, the housing extended about, out to Las Vegas really far down the east, and then some housing west of the tracks. Called it Old Town at that time; it’s called Westside now. Westside? And say, were there very many hotels down the—? No, I think there were two hotels Downtown. Can you recall the names of the hotels? Cashman Hotel and the Nevada Hotel. The Nevada? And there was a small hotel on Fourth and Fremont. I can’t recall the name of it. It was the last business on Fremont Street (unintelligible). Was the gambling started at that time, or did that come at a later date? They were gambling here prior to 1937. They had certain games—poker—and then later they had legalized all forms of gambling. I see. Was this beneficial for the railroad men? Did they enjoy, like to get out and go down and gamble? Certain numbers of them gambled a lot—they gambled all their wages—but most of them (unintelligible) things for them. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 5 So, can you give me a little bit of description of the people living here at the time? Were there more men ratio of women—did most of the men that worked on the railroad, did they bring their wives? No. A lot of them were single people. The majority were men. Were the men that were living here in town? Yes. We’ve talked about this earlier. What did you do, say, for recreation? Swam and played tennis and went for a movies. Where did you swim at? At the Heffner Ranch on West Charleston Boulevard. What was it, a pool there, a lake? It was a reservoir. A reservoir? Yes. Was it a picnic-type area, or was it just—? Oh, they had a few places you could picnic, there weren’t a lot of tables (unintelligible). Besides the swimming, you mentioned playing tennis—how many courts were located here in town? Four. Four courts? Yes. Could you give me a description of where they were located? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 6 Two of them were located where the parking lot is now on the east side of the main post office. And two of them are at the Las Vegas High School. Could you recall some of the people that you played with at the time? Well, attorney Charles Garner, I remember him, and a lot of regular people. You mentioned also earlier that you played with the person that they named Nellis Air Force Base after, Mr. Nellis? Ah, William Dell Nellis. Mm-hmm. Yes. I played with him before World War II. Could you tell us a little bit about Mr. Nellis, if you can recall? Well, he was a very phenomenal (unintelligible) person. (Unintelligible) in the Air Force and was killed. Okay. Some of the living conditions at the time—there was no air conditioning, right? Say, in the housing and—? There was evaporative cooling when we moved here, mostly homemade—put on a window, cool the house. So, you mentioned, too, that you lived in a tent for a while? Well, that was in 1926, the first time I came to Las Vegas. The first time? Yes. Where was this located that you lived in a tent? In the area back of the post office where the Biltmore tract is now. So, what’d you do for showering and drinking water and cleaning up and stuff like that? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 7 I think we used the creek. (Laughs) (Laughs) There was a creek? Where’d the creek go on by? Oh, back of the post office (unintelligible). There was a creek running behind it? Yes, it was a creek that ran down to the Old Ranch. Oh, I see. In the springs. Could you tell me some of the prominent members of the community at the time when you came here, such as the, can you remember the mayor? The mayor was Ernie Cragin. Cragin? How about the chief of police? Oh, I can’t recall his name. Could you remember the judge? No. All right, how about the schoolteacher? Well one of our prominent schoolteachers was Maude Frazier. Mm-hmm. We named a building for her at the Las Vegas High School. One of the buildings there is named after Ms. Frazier? Frazier Hall. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 8 Frazier Hall? How many high schools and elementary schools were here at the time when you came here to Las Vegas? The one high school, Las Vegas High. And it’s still located at the same place, right? Yes. Fifth Street Grammar School, and the North Ninth Street Grammar School. Was North Las Vegas—North Las Vegas had—? We’re talking about Las Vegas (unintelligible). It was just the (unintelligible)— And North Ninth Street was built new after (unintelligible). After we moved here? All right. There’s one on Westside and two in Northeast Vegas. The schools, were there any PTAs in the school itself? Mm-hmm. Were the PTAs very big and prominent? I was secretary for the PTA in the grammar school—just the grammar school over on Fifth Street. Don is going (unintelligible). Were there any organizations such as the Girl Scouts, the Brownies, the Boy Scouts, type of thing? The Campfire Girls; they were real active. But the Girl Scouts didn’t come in being right then. It was some later time. Could you tell us some of the other interesting stories that you can recall at that time when you were here with the town, as it started growing when you guys were here? On the corner of Fifth and Fremont, on the northeast corner was a swimming pool. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 9 Right. And that was the only pool? And then there was another pool that wasn’t used a lot up on the corner of Eleventh, between Eleventh and Twelfth on the southeast corner. And that was where the pool was at. Were the pools very crowded? No. Sometimes they were. How was the temperature in the summertime? Was it the same? Same. It was really warm and stuff, and so—? Same as now, but people didn’t have air conditioning like they have now. Was it the swamp coolers that they had? We built ours, and we built it out of burlap sacks. Is that right? And a fan. Wow. (Laughs) That’s what we had. So, how big was your house when you first got here? We lived on South Sixth Street, and our house had a front porch that went all the way across the front of the house, and that was kinda calm here because it was hot, people would sleep out on the porch. And we had vines on this porch, and I’d drag the hose inside, and it was screened, and I’d wet the vines for Don—that’s where we had the cooling system when it began to get hot. And I’d wet these vines with the hose for him to take his nap in the afternoon, and then at night before we went to bed, I’d go out and wet these vines. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 10 So, the breeze would come through if there was a breeze and it would be kinda cool? Mm-hmm. Make it cool. Oh, wow. Kids think they have it tough now. (Laughs) Back in the (unintelligible), I know I really— And they held their Helldorado, and it wasn’t large then, you know, the parades weren’t real long, but I know that when we lived on Sixth, we used to go up to the village, which was on the corner of Sixth— Seventh and Fremont. Well, between Sixth and Seventh on Fremont. It’s where the telephone company is now, and when they first built the (unintelligible), it was Sears. And then they moved the Sears, and now it’s a telephone building, and for a long time that was just vacant. It was part (unintelligible) anything other than a service station from there on, on Fremont—a few hotels. And for the nightclubs, we had the Red Rooster. Red Rooster? Where was that located? (Laughs) That was out on Boulder Highway. No, it was out on the Strip. Well, that’s what I say—or, not Boulder, but Los Angeles is out where the Strip is, is now. Called the Red Rooster? Uh-huh, it was owned by—what was her name? Haley? Hal—uh— Healey. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 11 Healey—I know she has a son. He’s a comedian. That was about, seems like about four miles from town. Is that right? A long way from town? There wasn’t a thing (unintelligible) in Las Vegas in that location. Him and his wife were in show business. Did they have live bands there playing and dancing and stuff? They had a dance floor. They had a little dance floor, and they had live music on weekends. Is that where most of the people went, was there? Yes, I’ll tell you one place that was here when—I think it was here when we came here ‘cause we used to go there for dinners and all—and that is the Green Shack, and it’s still here. Where was that located? That’s down near the Showboat. And it’s still here. Green Shack—that’s the one by the Showboat? It’s (unintelligible)— It’s near the intersection there. The Five Points? In back of that pancake house. Oh, yeah, I think I—it’s a little small building. Yes. And that was here and we came here. The same owners own it? No, I think it’s changed hands. Let me ask Ruby; she knows. We used to go out there for lunches. Wow. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 12 Well, they had a dance hall at Lorenzi Park. Lorenzi Park? Yes, a large hall. Lorenzi Park. Now that’s where—? That’s over on West Washington— Oh, yeah, that’s all but park there—there’s no building out there at all, is there? They turned it all into park. I went out there for some (unintelligible) building. The Norton Club meets there now. Oh, I see. About a large hall, and they had weekly dances, nice orchestra. It was a (unintelligible) place for residents. As far as the building of the dam, could you tell me very much about that? Did you have any friends working on the dam at the time? I had a young friend that we call—he’s dead now—but he worked there as a— She said that it’s leased now to the niece of the gal that ran it when he came here. She’s a niece of the gal that ran the Green Shack when we came here. Is that right? Uh-huh. And it’s leased to her. Wow, so she’s kinda hung on to it? Yes. And another place that used to be real prominent—and they moved it out of town and renamed it as Fong’s Garden now, and it used to be—what was it they called the Chinaman’s—all we ever called it was the Chinaman’s— Silver Café. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 13 Silver Café—they then that when we came here. And that’s where all the rails and everybody ate. The Chinamen? The name was the Silver Café. Who ran it, was it the Chinese men? The same people—the Fongs, and they’ve got it now, Fong’s Garden, you know, it’s on— East Charleston. Charleston on Fremont. Were there a lot of—what’d you call them, rail men? Yes, railroad. Was it just mostly railroad people, or was there a lot of Chinese? See, they worked into here, and some of them would work to here, and some of them boarded here, you know, didn’t have their families. They came here because it was—well, they didn’t want to bring their family along. They had their families in Los Angeles and various places. So, a lot of the Chinese stayed in Las Vegas, kept their families in Las Vegas, right? Well, people who were in business here (unintelligible) the Chinese. Oh, I see. But they had a, they called it the clubhouse where (unintelligible) came here, but the main— No, they didn’t. When we came here, they had the clubhouse on South Second, I believe. I said, though, the new one was built after we came, you know, up on Main Street, but the one that we used to pay our water bill down there (unintelligible) railroad (unintelligible). And that was about the Fourth Block on Second (unintelligible). About the Third. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 14 Speaking of your water bills, you mentioned something earlier about, the water here was so plentiful that, how did they charge you for that? Did you have meters or anything like that? We had a flat rate. Flat rate? Three dollars a month. Three dollars a month? So, no matter how much water you used, it was just three dollars a month? Wow. That’s the reason I had a garden. (Laughs) (Laughs) So, was it easy to grow stuff here, as far as in a desert? No, it wasn’t. There’s a lot of alkali in the soil here, and I had access to the stockyard; we used to unload a lot of stock. So you went over and got some manure and stuff? Built up the ground. The (unintelligible) was just, I don’t think it would have grown. I know there’s just a lot of alkali. So you had to fertilize it really well. There was considerable alkali in the water, too. Right across the street from where Penney’s store is uptown. Right, Downtown. Well, they had a hotel across the street there—it was quite a prominent hotel—and when Carole Lombard was killed in that— UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 15 You mean the El Cortez? No, it is across the other side of the street there. And when she was killed in that plane crash, I know the biggest mob went down there to see Clark Gable when he came out, and he stayed there. And I happened to be down on the railroad—I wasn’t even expecting to see him, you know, and he was down there. Did he come in on the railroad? Yes. He left on it; he was leaving—I don’t know how he came in. But anyway, he— She was killed in a plane accident. She was killed out here on this (unintelligible). And he stayed there at that hotel. Now, it would be just about like this house. Anyway, remember, they put this restaurant in it there, and you had to go back in the rooms, you know, across the street there was a restaurant (unintelligible) after they closed down (unintelligible). It was kind of a prominent place at the time; I can’t remember who ran it. J.C. Penney store was about Third and Fremont at the time. It was down, not where the Penney’s store is now Downtown—it was down the street and across it. So, was that one of the main shopping stores in town at the time? And then Sears, when it first came into Las Vegas, it was down where the, just off Main Street there. On Fremont. Yes, on Fremont, just off Main. About First Street. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 16 Yes, about around in there, between First and Main. And that was the first Sears store. That was—well, they didn’t have a whole lot—mostly mail order. Is that right? I understand, during the construction of Boulder Dam, see, the J.C. Penney manager had got a commission on all the clothing sold, and he sold so much work clothing to these people working on the dam. And they said one time he was making more money than the president of the United States. Is that right? Just by selling the clothing to the people working on the dam? Mm-hmm. Wow. Well, speaking of Hoover Dam, I’d like to try to get back to that. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about, if you guys had some friends that were working on the dam, you could tell us some of the problems they had in building the dam that went into it. Well, I wasn’t actually out to see the dam during construction. I’ve seen movies of it. You can see those in Boulder City, I think (unintelligible) construction that poured the concrete. Quite a problem was getting a road and a railroad down to it. Did the trains go down to the dam to carry supplies and stuff? Well, our regular trains just went as far as Boulder City. Oh, I see. And then they had a Six Companies railroad, they called it, that went from there on down to— And you brought the supplies down there? And they brought supplies into the dam and gravel and sand for the construction of the dam. Did you ever hear any of the man, say, like you said your friends, talk about how dangerous it was working on the dam and stuff like this? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 17 I’ve had reports that there were probably a hundred or more men were killed in the construction of the dam. So, the walls along each side of the dam had to be scaled off (unintelligible) and these men would lower down in (unintelligible), and they worked on that. [Audio cuts out, interview resumes midsentence] Was put two fifty-foot tunnels around the dam site, and then they put in a dam above there and ran the river through the tunnels. And they had to go down the bedrock. They put dams above and below the, I mean, Boulder Dam, and they pumped the water out and then they went down the bedrock and (unintelligible) a foundation for the dam. I can’t recall how deep that was. But as far as the building of the town, the railroad and the dam was your two major sources of work? Yes. That’s prior to World War II, when they built the Basic Magnesium Plant at Henderson; it brought a lot of people. Yes. In fact, they built the town of Henderson. There was nothing out there before. There was one motel on the highway, this side there, called (unintelligible) Los Angeles— Where did those guys stay that worked out on the dam? Oh, they had built housing, and they had boardinghouses, I guess you’d call ‘em, and they transported them from Boulder City down to the dam in big trucks. So, every day, they had to get on a truck to go to work? Yes. (Unintelligible) UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 18 And in around here, the principal of the Las Vegas Grammar School—I used go out and see about youngsters that come to school with no shoes and various things, and I found them living under mesquite bushes. And they’d have a piece of canvas stretched up to the car. Wow, that was just a place to stay for ‘em, right? And they’d have four and five youngsters. That was during Basic— (Unintelligible) No, were on the Basic construction. I mean, the Basic Magnesium. Mm-hmm, which was built to (unintelligible) magnesium for the construction of planes. It’s a lightweight tough material and metal. Now there are several chemical companies there: Stauffer Chemical—there were three more. How old would you say K.O. is now, K.O. Knudson? Don’t have an idea, Nora, probably eighty. Is that right? He’s past eighty. I know he has his eighty— (Unintelligible) He’s still alive, right? Yes. He’s just as sharp as can be. And he was principal of the Fifth Street Grammar School. Mr. Knudson? Mm-hmm. Did he have anything to do—didn’t they name a school after him here in town? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 19 Yes. The junior high school, K.O. Knudson Junior High. He’s a sharp person, and he belongs to organizations—he belongs to the Masons, he belongs to the (unintelligible) and (unintelligible) everything just about. And all of their ritualistic work, he has it memorized. He’s blind now. And he can get up and tell them when they’re wrong, and all that (unintelligible) doing something they shouldn’t. He’ll pop right up and tell you about. Who had a lot to do with the higher education and bringing in higher education and getting it started here in Las Vegas? The higher education— James Dickinson. Dickinson. Could you tell me a little bit about him, Mr. Dickinson? Well, us four is—I didn’t know how much about his teaching ability or anything. We just liked him as a person. Oh, really? Did you guys know him personally? Yes, we knew her and knew him. And he was a very likable person. They named the library at the university after him, right? Well, he’s been—Marjorie, I know that when she first came here, and gave him an electric stove, a kitchen range counter. And she did a lot for Don. He couldn’t play sports, and she kinda took him under her wing and give him voice training and all that sort of thing. He was emotionally disturbed because he had hopes of playing basketball or baseball his whole life—well, when the UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 20 doctor said he couldn’t do that, he had a kind of an emotional upset, and he didn’t want to go to school and all the regular things that kids go through. And so, she kinda took him under her wing. She said he had a beautiful voice, and they formed the (unintelligible), what was known then as the (unintelligible) and (unintelligible) singing together. And they entertained all around various functions (unintelligible). He’s just a real nice person, and so is Marjorie. Well, I’d like to ask you some questions. Maybe you can help me out on the Old Ranch, you might tell me a little bit about that. The picture there is a little house that was down there. We had some friends living down there. On the ranch? Well, they lived in this little place right by where the monument is down there. Are there any names, do you remember best, about the Old Ranch? Stewart. Can you tell me a little bit about those? I think some of the Stewarts, still here that was affiliated with them. They owned it? Mm-hmm. What was the specific reason for the Old Ranch, the building of it, or farming? Just water. Water? See, that stream of water that (unintelligible). That was about 600 acres of very fertile land that was apparently washed in there at some earlier date. And they did general farming in it. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 21 We had friends, and she knew John’ family when they were youngsters in Utah, and they had the water of North Las Vegas and a lot of North Las Vegas, and I think that was part of the Old Ranch, wasn’t it? No, that was a separate ranch. Was it (unintelligible)? They homesteaded 160 acres in the part of North Las Vegas. And she sold the lots down there to a lot of people—sold lots for a hundred dollars, and they could pay ten dollars down and so much a month. And now, whether you want to put this on your— It’s going on the tape. Mm-hmm. Well, anyway, she had a stipulation that it could be sold to (unintelligible). So that was the property that she owned? Yes. Oh, I see. And now, they did away with that. But she said that these were people that were poor people, buying these lots, and the words she used, she didn’t want it blighted by somebody moving in next to ‘em, which I’ve seen just as many white people move, just as trashy, any color. I know what you’re saying. Now, that was her idea, and she had that stipulation in deed and abstract and all for the lots. Could you relate any specific incident that happened at the Old Ranch, anything in particular that happened down there? UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 22 Well, during World War II, they had several hundred hogs there that they raised mostly on scraps from Nellis Air Force Base. The fellow that handled that at the time was (unintelligible) Jones. Plummer Jones? Yes. They were raising the hogs just to butcher? Yes. And use as meats and stuff and then sell it here in town? Well, they sold it. They shipped them out. Oh, I see. ‘Cause, see, we had a stockyard here (unintelligible) and shipped it out into Los Angeles. I see. But since the trains got faster, they don’t have to do that anymore. Can you describe any of the buildings on the Old Ranch property, besides—they were made of rock, weren’t they? I know this one’s made of rock. That (unintelligible) but I, well see—(Unintelligible) lived down there in a cabin on the Old Ranch. I don’t know, it looked like a chicken coop. Who were these people? My cousins, and his wife—they rented a little place down there—places were hard to get then just like they are now. And they rented this place. They come out here and got married and they wanted to get an apartment, so they rented a little place there. On the Old Ranch? Yes. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 23 Could you recall what they were paying at the time? No, I couldn’t. It wasn’t a whole lot, ‘cause I don’t think they had much money. (Laughs) Possibly three or four dollars a week. Is that right? I don’t know what they paid, but anyway, they stayed down there, and they had a pool down there. I know they just lived in the pool, and he’s supposed to be hunting a job, and— He was out swimming. Time I went down around there, was, he’s in the pool. (Laughs) Could you describe the location and conditioning of the adobe walls surrounding the original Mormon settlement? No, that was gone before we came here, I believe. John would know more about that. He camped down there (unintelligible) twenty—what was it? Well, ’26, out at the Old Ranch (unintelligible) behind where the post office is now. Oh, (unintelligible) some place. Could you remember the location of the trees? Were there many trees on the Old Ranch and things like this? Oh, yes. (Unintelligible) all around this pool. This pool was just a— Was it a swimming pool-type thing, or was it just a reservoir? It was swimming pool-type thing, and it was— Surrounded by cottonwood trees. And it was kind of rustic-looking, there wasn’t anything fancy about it. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 24 Just (unintelligible) water, huh? Yes, (unintelligible) You said the cottonwood trees were mostly around the pool? Yes. Did they have any on the other locations of the ranch? Yes, they were— There were several of them growing down along the creek. Down along the creek there. Were there mostly cottonwoods, or was it any other kind of plantings? Most of the big trees were cottonwood. That’s the way it was all over Las Vegas, was cottonwoods. Cottonwoods? Mm-hmm. When we moved on our place on Eighth Street, there was a big cottonwood (unintelligible). We had to take ‘em out, and soil just like chalk and (unintelligible). There was no grass or anything. Was it hard to plant grass? We lived at 220 North Eighth, so that’s right uptown. And then you can imagine (unintelligible) just cottonwoods trees. (Unintelligible) the Bermuda grass. Well, there’s bunches of that. And the backyard was filled with it; I had to dig it out to plant a garden. Well, (unintelligible) the soil was just white chalk in the backyard until you put fertilizer on it. I hope you can add it this film. UNLV University Libraries John and Mabel Dillingham 25 Oh no, fine, this is really good. What about the—what do you guys remember, say, for the use of the property as a gravel testing laboratory for the Boulder Dam? Well, they have that out there. That was all down right where the lake is now. Out at the lake? Underneath where Lake Mead is now, that’s where they got all our sand and gravel. So, they were digging out the lake at the time, right? Well, the lake, yes, they dug it out of the lake. First, they did a very big part of the lake. That’s where they got all the sand and gravel for the construction of the dam. Was the lake here when you came? It wasn’t here when I first came in ’26 and ’29. Don, you (unintelligible) the river somewhere down there or went down on (unintelligible). Well, there used to be a ferry across the Colorado River below Searchlight—the (unintelligible) cable sits across and they would ferry cars and boats between here and (unintelligible). So, can you think of anything that would be of significance of Las Vegas itself that we haven’t talked about? How about the travel? Did you have many cars here in town or the wagons, and what did you use? There were cars. There were cars, but they used to, in the parades and everything (unintelligible) horses. Did most of the people, to get aro