Transcript of interview with Harvey Diederich by K.J. Evans, January 4, 1999

UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich i An Interview with Harvey Diederich An Oral History Conducted by K.J. Evans Las Vegas Review-Journal First 100 Oral History Project Special Collections Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich ii © Las Vegas Review-Journal First 100 Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2017 UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich iv Abstract On January 4, 1999, Harvey Diederich (b. 1920 in Chicago, IL) was interviewed in his home by K.J. Evans about his experience as a publicist in the gaming industry. Diederich first discusses his background and education in journalism and later discusses the relationship between the Las Vegas News Bureau and hotel/casino publicists. Evans questions Diederich about some of his specific projects, such as those dealing with celebrities and particularly the ones that stood out as the most successful, most unsuccessful, and most creative. Diederich also mentions some of the individuals for whom he worked as well as the various cities to which he travelled for work. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 1 Dr. Roy Martin (unintelligible). The date is January 4th, 1999, and we’re with Harvey Diederich in his home, and I’m gonna start out with some really basic biographical stuff. Your date of birth? 2/8/20. 2/8/20. Okay. And your place of birth? Chicago. Chicago, okay. And your father’s name? Walton. Okay, and what was his occupation? Bartender, bookmaker. Okay. And your mom’s name? Ninnie. N-I? N-I-N-N-I-E. Okay. And did she have an occupation? She worked off and on (unintelligible) professional status. Okay. Where did you grow up? I grew up Glen Ellyn, Illinois, a Chicago suburb. Okay. And where did you go to high school and to college? I went to high school in Glen Ellyn, Glenbard High. Okay. And after the war, I had one year of University of Illinois extension program (unintelligible). And you’re a USC graduate, I take it? UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 2 Right, right. What was your degree in? Journalism. Journalism—not advertising? No. Okay. I think there may have been an advertising class or two; basically, it was a school of journalism. And what year did you arrive in Nevada? 1952. Were you in the service? Yes. Okay. And which branch? Army Medical Department with the 33rd Infantry Division. Okay, and where did you serve? Pacific. We saw very little action. Are you married? Yes. Wife’s name? Joan, J-O-A-N. I know that. What am I—I know your wife. (Laughs) If you’re interested, the year of graduation was 1950. Thank you. Outstanding Male Graduate in my journalism. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 3 Oh, okay. Phi Beta Kappa. Let’s see, you graduated in ’50 and you came here in ’52. Yes, I went—I basically got started in the business in the Los Angeles YMCA doing publicity, and I was hired there by a man named (unintelligible), who was a fundraiser. So, after that campaign was over, I stayed on for several months as director of their publicity. Mm-hmm. Then the job opened in Sun Valley, Idaho—Steve Hannigan had the account. Oh. And I was interviewed in Los Ang—actually, in Hollywood and got the job—went up to Sun Valley in July of 1950, and I stayed until September of 1952, and I came to Las Vegas. So, you worked for Hannigan, but you didn’t work for him here? No. Hannigan was here for only a year; he was gone by the time I arrived in Las Vegas. So, you came to Las Vegas in ’52—what brought you here? Well, basically, I didn’t want to go through another winter in Sun Valley. In Sun Valley, okay. My instruction was not to ski, so (unintelligible) job ahead of me, broke a leg, so he told me not to ski, so really was no sense in being in Sun Valley in the winter and not being able to ski. And the winters were grim. Actually, Herb McDonald and Bob Cannon came to Sun Valley in 1952; I talked to both of them, and they said they had an opening at the Last Frontier and suggested I come down to the interview for it. So that’s what brought me to Las Vegas. Okay. So your first position was—oh, I had one question I didn’t answer—did you ever get into newspapering? UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 4 No. Never did? Never. Never. Didn’t care to, or just? I think the opportunity arose. Mm-hmm. Back in those days, and probably still today, beginning newspaper reporters, they made very little money. I think I was making more at the YMCA than I would’ve made with the newspaper. And when the opportunity for Sun Valley came up, it was a real, real plum. Mm-hmm. Great opportunity—I grabbed that, and I was already in that field. So I travelled Nevada (unintelligible) newspaper (unintelligible). And you say that your first job here was at the Last Frontier, or the—? It was the Last Frontier. (Unintelligible) Okay. As director of advertising publicity. Okay. And who did you report to then? Bob Cannon. Okay. Bob Cannon, as you probably know, is a veteran hotel man, and he was general manager at the Frontier. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 5 This is kind of a broad question, but I’ll throw it out and see if you, it sparks any, uh—how much did hotel publicists like yourself contribute to creating that Las Vegas that exists today? Well, I don’t know how you (unintelligible), but I think we were very, very instrumental in developing Las Vegas into an international destination during the, probably the 1950s and into the sixties. I think that through (unintelligible) of all of us, we were able to call international attention to Las Vegas, basically through the visits here of Hollywood personalities, and also a lot of creative publicity. Every time I discuss creative publicity, i.e., cheesecake, your name comes up. (Laughs) (Laughs) (Unintelligible) (Unintelligible) Can you kinda describe the relationship between the Las Vegas News Bureau and the various hotel publicists in those days? How did it work? It was a very, very tight relationship. Basically, the News Bureau was the photographic arm and the writing aide to all of the Las Vegas (unintelligible) in those days, and we were very, very close together, and we fed off each other. How so? Well, an idea would pop up here and we discuss it here and we develop it. An idea might originate with the News Bureau or with an individual hotel, and the creativity blended both. Can you describe all those brainstorming sessions? I mean, who’d you have there, a typical one, somebody from the News Bureau? UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 6 Yes, basically it was the head of the News Bureau, and probably chief photographer or one of the photographers would sit down and discuss a potential idea and they’d tell them whether or not it was practical, whether or not it would get the space we wanted. And if it was positive, we would move ahead with it, and many times it was creative use of (unintelligible)—cheesecake, right? (Laughs) Who came up with all the weird holidays—national birdcage week, national hot dog—who? I think probably the News Bureau. Okay. I think that they had a book. (Laughs) Of strange, strange days and weeks, yes. Okay. Since we’re on the subject, can you give me the weirdest stunts that you participated in? Well I don’t know if weird is the right adjective. Oh, okay—I meant colorful, I guess. (Laughs) Well, one we developed was Miss B’ Sure ‘N Vote. Just Be Sure and Vote? Yes, which encouraged voters to get, to go to the (unintelligible) polls, (unintelligible) cheesecakes in. Okay. Then we also had one called Cold Turkey. I had our ice sculptor. Now where was this? This was at the Frontier. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 7 The Frontier, okay. Our ice sculptor crafted a large ice turkey, and we perched a (unintelligible) on the turkey. (Unintelligible) turkey? Ice, yes—it became cold turkey, right? I never heard one of those called a turkey before, but okay. (Laughs) No, the ice sculpture was a turkey. I—(Laughs). And we also—I think maybe my first one was, Ed (unintelligible) was starring in a showroom, and he had been (unintelligible) Jim Brady, and Harry Winston out of New York had sent in a collection of diamonds, so again, we posed a showgirl in a black bikini decked out with diamonds, and it had two deputies, two armed security men behind, like, guarding the lady and the gems. Those are a few of the things we did. We also had an underwater window in our pool, and we did a lot of underwater shots. Oh, okay—never seen those. Of showgirls: (unintelligible) Maxwell started a show and brought in a tiger on stage, and it was doped up that—barely keep it awake. (Laughs) Well we took it to the pool during their engagement. Mm-hmm. I did shots and stuff around the pool with her, and then I also followed up with one of my daughters in a striped bikini—she was, like, four or five years old—with a whip and a cat, a little kitten, like she was taming the kitten. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 8 It was a takeoff on this. (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm. And of course, the Gabor sisters appeared there, and Zsa Zsa was going with (unintelligible), and she claimed he (unintelligible) in her eye, so she went downstage with a sequin eyepatch. And we took that and, again using a showgirl as a new fashion with an ice pack on her head and an eyepatch, you know. (Laughs) I know that a lot of the publicity shots that you did involved the celebrities that are playing at the hotels—was there anyone in particular that was a particularly good sport about it, that you could count on to—? I would paint most of ‘em, were very cooperative, and I think much of that came from instructions from their studios. In those days, the studio really owned the performer, the actor, and when they suggest that they go to Las Vegas, I think you’ll probably welcome the trip, but nevertheless, they were completely cooperative. If you look on the wall over there, you’ll see Ronald Reagan and his wife on Lake Mead—one of our boats. We did a lot of photography for movie magazines, which was strong in those days. And, again, I think all of the celebrities were cooperative. I think they—they also, in addition, instruction, I think they (unintelligible) of the publicity that we’re getting. Now, when Ronald Reagan played here, the publicity shots that were on the boat—I only bring this up ‘cause I pulled all those out one time and did a photo layout of Nevada, of that day—it’s called The Gipper and Skipper. That’s cute, yeah. And— I wish I’d (unintelligible) that. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 9 But were you at the hotel at that time? Yes. Oh, okay. So, did you set that up? Oh, yes. Okay. You mean, of the Lake scenes? The Lake scenes. Oh, yeah. They told me about that. Oh, boy, you’re testing my memory. I think, probably, it was basically for a movie magazine. Oh, okay. ‘Cause both of them were out there (unintelligible), both Nancy and Ronald. And again, you know, completely cooperative. In those days, one of the big problems was the seasonal slumps in the shoulder seasons—that’s pretty much been eradicated these days, I guess. What’s specials (unintelligible), right? In those days, I suppose that was one of the tasks that you had before you, was to try and (unintelligible) visitation during those times; what did you do in particular to try and solve that problem? I don’t think the problem was solvable. It was just, we got it in (unintelligible) December, which was a slum month. And I don’t know that anybody was able to generate any heavy traffic, we (unintelligible) like heavy traffic. I think the town pretty much slumped. Then, they started to UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 10 introduce conventions, and I think conventions probably were used in the early days to generate some business during the low periods. Now, I know that there wasn’t a universal acceptance of the idea that conventions were gonna be the saving of Las Vegas— No. They figured, they don’t play. I mean, the conventional wisdom was that conventioneers don’t play. Yes, basically. I think there were some exceptions in that. Okay. There were some who—well, pretty good players. What was your view on it? Conventions? Yes. I don’t know that I had a specific view, but I do know that the Frontier Village probably had the first convention facility in town. Oh? An upstairs room in the Silver Slipper. That’s right. The boxing matches and— Right. And Herb McDonald was there (unintelligible) conventions. And again, we use those for publicity advantage whenever possible. Do you talk to Herb very often? I talked to him two times over the holidays. His wife died. I heard. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 11 He’s been pretty low since that happened. But we go back a lotta years. Back in December, when I was off to Sahara, we had a sign out, I think, was below the major marquis, which we used for welcome messages. We’d welcome such and such a convention. So, I talked to Alex (unintelligible), and I said, “Let’s put up a sign that says Welcome Anyone.” (Laughs) (Laughs) Did you do it? (Unintelligible) But it was pretty, almost hopeless, you know, to bring any kind of traffic. I know, I used to bus tables when I was a kid, and almost got laid off right before Christmas. Happy holidays. Is there one project that, either because it was successful or it was fun, sticks out in your mind—something that maybe was so effective, it surprised you? I think, based on the response I got from Vic Taylor at the Hacienda, that one semi-cheesecake shot we took at the night lighter golf course—we had a par-three golf course at the Hacienda—and I pulled a girl in a nighty, those shorty nighties, on the first tee, okay? Mm-hmm. And the reading, like, was “Nighty Time—Night-tee Time.” (Laughs) It got heavy play. Much of this (unintelligible) of the things we did got pretty good play. Did, sometimes the ones that you didn’t really think were gonna fly, did they? I think Miss B’ Sure ‘N Vote, I didn’t think was—but it got quite— That was Miss B, period, S-U-R-I-N? UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 12 I think it was Miss, apostrophe B—no—B, apostrophe, I guess, Miss B, apostrophe, Sure. Okay. N—N, just the N. Okay. And Vote. Okay. (Laughs) Anyways, they had a better posture contest, which we staged at the Frontier. This was the chiropractic association (unintelligible). We used a (unintelligible) with the winter—Tom (unintelligible). (Laughs) It’s amazing how well (unintelligible) as a (unintelligible). You know what, the cheesecake in those days was very, very popular, and I think even somewhat provocative. Yes. Now, it’s nothing. Well, about the best you can get in the way of, uh— Yeah. What was the thing you thought was the best idea you had that turned out to be a flop, that didn’t work, that you had a lotta confidence in? I don’t know. We had this picture on the wall here of (unintelligible) in a coffee bag, which never really got any heavy play—in a bathtub, you know, with— Full of coffee? Full of coffee, yes. Was that National Coffee Week? (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 13 Might’ve been—might’ve been (unintelligible). What is—I take it you graduated with a degree in journalism and went right into public relations, so do I surmise from that that you learned a lot on the job, a lot of the business of being a publicist and advertising that end of it, marketing? That I learned while I worked? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Oh, yes. I think I grew tremendously in my profession, simply by applying my education to the journalistic field. I had the basic knowledge, but only getting out and working—and working with newspaper people, too, working with magazine writers and so forth. I grew, oh yes. I guess you have to grow—couldn’t get outta your own way. (Laughs) Did you ever have an object lesson, a tough lessons where you learned something the hard way? (Unintelligible) at the MGM Grand, which was much later—this was in the seventies—a writer from the LA Times came in to do a story on gamblers’ idiosyncrasies, and I got him together with the vice president of casino operation and the vice president of the casino instead of doing the story of—this reporter opened up about some Arab gamblers that he had in the hotel and talked about their gambling, excesses and so forth. And my fault—I should never have trusted the guy, but it seemed to be an innocuous sort of interview, and I really should’ve been there. It turned out, it cost me my job. Oh. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 14 I was blamed for this man’s speaking about gambling, and if there’s anybody in hotel operations, should know better than to talk about the gambling extremes of any player, it should be the casino— Customers. But it was a tough one to lose, ‘cause it was probably my best job in town. Yes, I saw the clip in there where it just said you left for personal reasons. Basically, in the final analysis, I think it was a very, very positive story for the hotel. Really? Really. Because it certainly won the admiration and respect of Jews around the world, because we had beaten these Arabs out of millions of dollars. (Laughs) This was like revenge. (Laughs) That was my analysis of it, anyway, and I think that’s the pretty accurate statement. So (unintelligible) with a certain segment of your market. Yes, that’s right. I just finished doing a story on Max Kelch—I tried to dig up as much as I could on his career—and when the Desert Sea News Bureau was created and then subsequently taken over by the Chamber of Commerce, was the first I’d heard of the long running debate about whether we should put all of our eggs into the paid advertising basket or if we should spend it on publicity, which is more effective, or should it be a balance, and out at Lake Tahoe, they just went through (unintelligible) and advertising one, but if you have any UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 15 thoughts on the importance of one versus the other, or is one more important than the other? (Unintelligible) with my background, I would have to say publicity far, far exceeds the (unintelligible) advertising, because it’s basically more believable, and it’s editorial rather than advertising, and I think much more effective. When it comes to dollars and cents, I don’t know. But I think they both have a position; I don’t think that Las Vegas, today, is getting the publicity it should, and certainly the Convention and Visitor’s authority is spending a hell of a lot more money on advertising than they are on publicity. And they claim success of their advertising, but in most case, they ignore the fact that individual hotels, number one, have created a highly desirable destination with billions of dollars in the hotels, and these individual hotels spend millions of dollars in promoting their own properties. So, you can’t say that the Las Vegas Visitors and Convention Authority for the growth of Las Vegas; it just isn’t sure. This is not true. It’s a product. Of course it’s a product. And the expanding project and the new attractions within hotels, the same goes for the Las Vegas airport. They claim that they’re responsible for the growth of Las Vegas—they wouldn’t be here without a destination. I don’t know many people that fly out to see an airport. (Laughs) That’s right. You’re certainly spending a lot of hours in airports these days, like Chicago. No, I read in one of the clips that— [Tape cuts out] I was asking—that you did a short stint as a publicist in the Bahamas? Right. When and where? UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 16 The Hannigan people asked me to come back and take over and represent them in the Bahamas. Okay. This was in 1954, and I went down there to run the Bahamas News Bureau. And it was not a happy experience for me. I had difficulty in adjusting to the pomp and ceremony of a British—whatever you call it, province or whatever, after the (unintelligible) living in Las Vegas, it was very difficult. And the staff I inherited was not that helpful either. I stayed several months and then went to New York. For Hannigan? No. In fact, I was terminated by Hannigan in the Bahamas, and I went to New York—was hired by a woman I met in the Bahamas named Kate (unintelligible). She (unintelligible) public relations for them in New York, and I went to work for her for a year. So I was (unintelligible) almost two years away from Las Vegas. And in New York, we had a client in the Bahamas, (unintelligible), and that was Axel (unintelligible), and he developed one of the first computers, and we were involved in promoting that computer. Oh, really? Yes. Huge, huge (unintelligible). (Laughs) We put one in for the post office in Ashville, North Carolina, and went down after that. We also had (unintelligible) in Chicago. Another account she has was Krupp. Oh, really? Yes. I was in New York for about a year, and she closed her office, so I came back to Las Vegas. When’d you come back to Las Vegas? Coulda gone anywhere, couldn’t ya? Yes, no place I’d rather be. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 17 Okay. You know, had a good experience here and friends here. I came back to town without a job, went to (unintelligible). (Laughs) I’m driving a station wagon with a quarter-ton trailer with our household goods, four children, a parakeet, and a dog with a litter—came into town and no job. Oh, man. When was that? That’d be 1956. But I went to work right away for Jake Caswell. Jake Caswell is—? He was the Last Frontier, major owner of the Last Frontier, and he was a leading civic and charity person in town; he was very, very active, and very active in the casino business. When I came back to town, it was like nothing. I think he got in trouble with the Gaming Commission because I think he told more than a hundred percent interest in the Frontier. Oh, okay. That sounds familiar. And he teamed up with Doc Bailey (unintelligible) open the Hacienda—he couldn’t get licensed. But I stayed out of the Hacienda until the Tropicana was ready to open, I went to the Tropicana. What was the best place you worked? Tropicana, without a question. Why? Less clash; it was, I think, certainly—that opening and for several years, it was the class of the Strip, and as a matter of fact, (unintelligible) adopted the amount which was the Tiffany of the Strip (unintelligible). And that actually originated with a magazine writer who turned the Tropicana into the Tiffany of the Strip. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 18 (Laughs) So we used it. When we were kids, we used to get on our bikes and go out and crash the hotel pools—we were scared of the Tropicana. Yes. That one and The International when it first opened—we were scared of both of those. They were a little too classy. (Laughs) Yeah, Trop was a fine, fine operation, and good people. It’s kind of a high pressure, unforgiving kind of business, isn’t it? I think it can be, I think it can be. I really never felt any great pressure. I don’t think there were any demands that were placed on me, except for the MGM experience. It was a very, very pleasant working operations, and then I operated pretty much independently. And I—obviously, the people I worked for were satisfied with my performance. And I was satisfied with my performance; I was (unintelligible) good in my profession. Who are some of the people that you—who were your peers at the time? Al Freeman. Al Freeman, the Sands? Who is a remarkable talent. Jane Murphy at the Desert Inn. Okay. Fella named (Unintelligible) Perry at the Flamingo. Lee Fisher came later, I think. Funny, I can’t remember the others. The image of Al Freeman—he was responsible for the floating crap game shots. Yes, right. UNLV University Libraries Harvey Diederich 19 Okay. Did publicists generally have a higher status in those days than they do now? No question about it. I think that we were at the upper level of executive positions, and I think that (unintelligible) more readily recognized for what we did than, apparently, the people are today. You have some standout people today who are spokesmen for the hotels, and they’re very good at their craft; on the other hand, you have some who are not that professional. Now, I read a clip that said that you were appointed by Governor Laxalt to chair the state tourism advisory group? Mm-hmm. And you told the Review Journal that the first step would be to open a state news bureau in Carson City—can you give me a little background on that state tourism advisory group? I’m not familiar with that at all, and what it did and what happened to it? I would have to guess that, well, this was—this occurred during Paul Laxalt’s administration, and I don’t know who had the idea (unintelligible) but he got people representing different areas of the resort community, and basically from Las Vegas, it was— [Conversation cuts out]