Transcript of interview with Roy Brown by Rick Godwin, May 21, 1976

UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 1 Interview with Roy Brown An Oral History Conducted by Rick Godwin Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2017 UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 4 Abstract Roy Brown was born in American Fork, Utah. He relocated to Las Vegas, Nevada, in 1957. This interview is conducted by Rick Godwin at Brown’s hair salon located within Camelot Shopping Center in Las Vegas. During this interview Brown discusses his career as a hairstylist, celebrities he has styled and the growth and transformation of the haircutting industry in Las Vegas. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 5 The name of the person being interviewed is Roy Brown. Date, May 21st, 1976. Place, Camelot Shopping Center, Las Vegas, Nevada. Name of collector is Rick Godwin. UNLV. The project is Local History Project, requirement for History 117 Oral Interview. Okay. May, 21st, 1976, Roy Brown. Rick Godwin, the interviewer, and Roy, how long you been here, in Las Vegas? Approximately 21 years. 21 years in here—in Las Vegas. Right. What brought you to Las Vegas in the first place? My profession, which is hairstyling. Has it always been hairstyling? Yes. Since I got out of college. Uh-huh. And you came here from where? From American Fork, Utah. American Fork, Utah. So, you’ve been out west most of your life? Right. Born and raised in the west. Is that right? Mm-hmm. So when you got here it must have been, what, the mid 1950s? 1954 or 1955? No. 1957. 1957? Mm-hmm. So, I’m sure there’s been a lot of changes in the last 20 years? UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 6 Right. How about for your personal life. Not to get too personal but where did you first live when you were in Las Vegas? I lived in an apartment and also a trailer at that time. Uh-huh. That was all that was available to rent. Where was this? Can you say? Was it in the Valley? Or— Let’s see, my first apartment was over in North Las Vegas. Uh-huh. And also the mobile home was in North Las Vegas. Has there been, is it still there? Is the mobile home still there? The park is. I don’t think the mobile home is. But the park is. Yes. Has there been much development around it? Or were you— Oh yes. When I was there, there was just that one park, I think. With a desert around it? Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. And now it’s all built up or it’s been much more developed than what it was when you were there, 20 years ago, yes? Right. Then from there you moved into Las Vegas, proper? Yes. I moved into—just off the Strip. I don’t know, Boston, I think it was Boston Avenue there. Right off the Strip. Uh-huh. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 7 I took an apartment there. ‘Cause it was closer to—I was working at the Flamingo Hotel at that time, and it was closer to work for me. And then from there you—how many changes of residences? A lot of a history of (unintelligible)? Or— When you’re an apartment dweller you make many changes? (Laughs) Well, that runs true for a lot of, you know, Las Vegas people—are constantly changing addresses. But do you own a home now? Or do you– Yes. But I own a mobile home now. Mobile home. On my own property. Alright. Did you have air conditioning when you were first here? No. There wasn’t such thing. Only in the hotels. Right. Generally, everyone just had swamp coolers, they called them. Do you know when you converted over to air conditioning? I think it was about 1962, 1961 or 1962, in that general area. Yes. That figures with other people I’ve talked to even. I guess it made a big difference in the living. Well, I owned a home at that time, and I converted from a swamp cooler to air conditioning. I guess most people do, as soon as they can afford the down payment. Switch service. Mm-hmm. Let’s get on to your professional life. Where did you first start hair cutting? UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 8 I worked about two months in Utah and then I came down here and went to work directly at the Tropicana Hotel, which had just opened in 1957. And the star that opened that hotel was Eddie Fisher. And that was the grand opening, I had just started the job. That was 1957. Boy, Eddie Fisher. Headlining star. He was a big star then. (Laughs). Boy! It’s around the time, I can’t think of his records off hand and some of his big hits but—did you cut his hair? No. I never met the gentleman. Ah. Well, how long were you at the Tropicana? I was there???I’d say I was there about a year. And then I went to the Flamingo Hotel. And I was there six years, and there was still lots of Bugsy Siegel inclinations around, and you could really, you know, could tell. Is that right, did you cut anybody’s hair that— Yes. We did an awful of stars. And we did Vic Damone, Cyd Charisse, Marilyn— Let’s see, not Marilyn Monroe, but Jane Mansfield. Did she have any particular, I shouldn’t say obvious qualities that you remember about her, but, other than her physical attributes—(laughs). How do you remember her? Well, she, basically Jane Mansfield was a very simple person. She was an intelligent woman. She was very well-read and her language was very much a lady. She never said anything out of order. This is all while you were at the Flamingo? Right. And from the Flamingo you moved on to— UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 9 Then I went into business with other people here in town, and we owned six shops. And I was in business with them for about five, well, I’d say about four years, and I got out of that. Were they in the hotels (unintelligible)? No. We just owned local shops throughout the city. Uh-huh. And I got into, just went on my own, working for someone else. And then, I decided to go back into the hotel business. So I went back to the Sahara Hotel. The Sahara? Yes. And I was there nine years. Were you there when they opened? No. They had been opened for a while. I don’t know exactly when the Sahara Hotel opened. But I was there nine years. From there, what, I think you told me before you came over here— Then I opened my own shop. Right here. Mm-hmm. At the Camelot. Camelot. And you’ve been here how many years? Two years. Two years. You think you’ll stick with this? Or— I hope so. (Laughs). As far as—let’s talk about hairstyles. Not on a nationwide basis, but maybe here in Las Vegas, if there is such a thing. How—have styles changed? I know, of course they’ve UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 10 changed, but, let’s put it this way, does Las Vegas differ from the rest of the country, hairstyle wise? Well, I think in one aspect. For instance, for example, men, I think were coming into the beauty shops back in the 1950s to get their haircut. Even when the rest of the world, you know, they thought was taboo and we did it on the QT. Yes. To keep the union off our backs. And it’s just, you know, that’s basically when it started with back in the 1950s. Men were concerned about their hair then and now it’s wide open, you know. It’s no big thing to walk into a— Right. Men come in right on the—we don’t even have any qualms about ‘em no more. Right. Well, do you think Las Vegas could be considered a forerunner? Coulda been considered a forerunner, as far as the unisex (unintelligible)? Yes. Definitely. Yes. I would say definitely. You say you got, you tried to avoid the heat of the union, what about the stigma of the local people? Do you think they accepted it as part of the Las Vegas show type, and— Then or now? Then. Back when it first started. Well, the dealers, they’re, dealers have always been very concerned with their appearance, you know, their nails, and their hair, and that’s, I think that’s how it all started. Men were coming into beauty shops to get their hair, nails done, basically. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 11 Right. So you’re saying that it probably started with the casino people and then worked down from there. Mm-hmm. Expanded from there. Right. Show people. Show people. Right. Besides Jane Mansfield, did you do quite a few show people? Did they follow you after you left the hotel? Oh yes. They always want to know where you were when they came to town, you know. And I always kept a record of my people. And I would always let them notify them, you know, if I’d made a change. Gisele MacKenzie, she was another one that we used to do all the time. And she’s also a very nice person. Peggy Lee and I’m trying to think, it’s hard to think back. How many you worked on. (Laughs). You must have gotten on, kind of a, not a familiar basis, but on a personal basis with some of them. They must have been, become good friends of yours. Oh yes. Some of them did. Uh-huh. You know. It’s like everyone else though, you lose contact, you know, over the years. Yes. But basically show people are very nice people. Easy to work on. Betty Grable. She used to come into the shop at the Sahara. Is that right? You worked on Betty Grable. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 12 Wow. I’ll be darned! Yes. She was, in fact, I was—when she died, I was ill in the hospital myself, down in Santa Monica, just a few blocks from where she was. I’d get on the phone with her and we’d call back and forth and say, “How are you feeling today, Betty?” And she’d say, “Well, how are you feeling?” you know. And I’d say, “Well, I’m doing pretty good.” (Laughs). Misery loves company. Luxury loves cheering up. Right. Then she died a few days after that. Uh-huh. That’s too bad. I don’t remember all the details obviously. I don’t know if I was too young to remember the details or even knew in the first place back then. I remember, just remember her movies. But did any of them, have they asked, I’ve heard this somewhere before, did any of them ask you to travel with them, to be their personal haircutter? Yes. Mitzi Gaynor called me one day, oh, a few years back, and asked me, her hairdresser had to leave or he was sick or something like that, I don’t remember, but he was a personal friend of mine and she asked me if I would fly down and she would pay my expenses and have me do her hair and see if she liked my work. Evidently he had recommended me and I couldn’t go at the time because I had just opened a new shop and I was too involved I couldn’t leave, you know. And it meant like going on the road. It was just impossible. So I apologized and told her I just couldn’t accept. Where did she want you to fly down to? To her home. Her home? Yes. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 13 Then if you had proven out— Then I would have had the job. In other words, I had to go down on a trial basis, you know. But she was willing to pay for my expenses down and back. But I just couldn’t get away. Would you like that type of life or want to try it sometime? Seems kind of glamorous. I think when you’re young it’s great. Yes. But now I’m past that stage. Kind of old for that. Mm-hmm. Yes. A little old for that travelling around. (Laughs). You don’t look like it but I’ll take your word for it. Do you still do famous people? Or stars now? Occasionally. We have some come in. Who have you done, let’s say, in the last six months? I’m trying to think recently. Oh, Martha Scott was in a few weeks ago. She’s a famous actress, Broadway stage, and movies, she’s made a lot of movies. She’s done several television shows recently. She did, she’s on the “The Six Million Dollar Man.” Yes. That’s right. She plays, well, Jaime Sommers, who is the Bionic Woman, she plays her mother, all the time. Yes. I don’t see that too much, I guess (unintelligible). Yes. She was in a few weeks ago. She’s a very good friend of mine. Very nice lady. Yes. Great lady. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 14 But you think for the most part, as far as styles go, do you think we, I’m sure Las Vegas keeps up with the rest of the world? Oh definitely. Are we still a forerunner, I mean do some styles start from Las Vegas since we’re so close to Hollywood? Or ‘cause we’re an entertainment capital of our own? I think so and I think that color work is a tremendous influence on the world. The color work that we do in this town. You mean we actually influenced the rest of the fashion world? I think so, in color. In what we do here in Las Vegas? Mm-hmm. That’s interesting. In fact, the terminology which is applied to blondes is called blonde on blonde. And that was originated right in this town and now it’s worldwide. That was the beginning of wearing two different shades of blonde on your head. And you say it started right here in town— Mm-hmm. Right here in Las Vegas. I’ll be darned! A lot of people don’t know this. The world doesn’t know that. (Laughs). Well, maybe now some people will after this. Mm-hmm. Right. (Laughs). Going back on a historical note the proprietors, the haircutters versus the unions, have you had much trouble with the unions in the last 20 years? UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 15 Well, about two years ago we got into a lawsuit and we had to go to court and the barbers wanted to monopolize the whole haircutting industry. And they were trying to dictate to the public, which is an impossibility nowadays. You cannot dictate to the public. And, not only the hairdressers but the public got up in arms and we went to court and we won the case. And now this is why men can come in to the beauty shop and have anything done they want. So before a couple of years ago we, us being the male customers, couldn’t actually come into your shop? Come in and ask for services. Yes. You say back in the mid-1950s, you had to do it on the sly? Right. How did that work? You came in after hours? Or— Right. After hours. Or before hours. Well, the union knew this was going on didn’t they? Or— Yes. But they really actually couldn’t do anything to you, unless they catch you right in the act. So you kinda kept the lights low and the curtains pulled? Mm-hmm. The hairdressing union or the barbers union used to be very, very strong in this state, but it is no longer that way. When did they start—when did their demise start? Oh, about, oh, three years ago, I guess, they got all hot and bothered about it. And then they just worked into it from there. But they weren’t capable or able to do what the public demanded. You know, they weren’t able to take care of the customers. And of course in that case as in all business cases if they can’t take care of their customers, you know— UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 16 They’re gonna go elsewhere, for services. Right. Right. Exactly. What do you think has been important the last 20 years as far as Las Vegas goes? Not from a haircutter standpoint but from a citizen of Las Vegas. A citizen? Well, the building and the growth of the city has been tremendous. In fact, I think this city and Phoenix, Arizona, were, at that time, the two fastest growing cities in the United States. Right. And, well, let’s see, when I came here I think we had a population of about eighty thousand people in 1957 and what is it now? Oh gosh, I should know. I don’t know. Two hundred and fifty thousand? At least, two fifty or three hundred thousand. Something like that. Now you told me before when you were first here, you could, I don’t know where you were working, the Riviera or Tropicana, but you could walk down the street, along the Strip, and recognize people. Of course, you do that now and you’d be one chance in a million of recognizing somebody. Right. You could, you know, you could say, “Hello,” to your neighbors, and you knew practically everybody in town at that time. Yes. Well, you think that’s the case of just growing bigger, which it might be, or just because Las Vegas is Las Vegas? Right. I think that’s gone now. You can’t, you don’t, I can go out on the Strip or Downtown and I don???t see a soul I know, and I’ve been here for 21 years. (Laughs). You probably feel like you were being intruded upon. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 17 Yes. There’s so many people now. It’s grown into a large city. Right. Let’s see, I had some more notes here. Do you have anything to say, as far as, has anything personally significant happened to you? No. All I can say is that this town has been very good to me. I’ve never been without work. I consider myself an ambitious person and I’ve always been able to find work and keep very busy. And that’s good. That’s a good thing to look back on. Do you think that this trade has always been here in Las Vegas? From my readings it has. People that want to find work in Las Vegas can. Can find it. Can find it? I’m sure they can. Yes. How do you feel about that? I feel that a person if he wants to work this is the place to work and make a good living. It’s possible here. You think it was easier, just as easy back in 1956, 1957, as it might or might not be now? Yes. It was. Mm-hmm. Just as easy. In my profession. In your profession? Mm-hmm. How did you train? Did you go to barber college? Or— No. I went to a beauty school. Took a year’s training. Mm-hmm. And then I worked two years in Utah, like I said before, and came down here and went right to work at one of the best spots in town. And— UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 18 How has training changed, pardon me, not only in the haircutting business but say in the western United States, Nevada, in particular, in the last 20 years? I think the schools are much improved than when I was in school, in beauty school. And I think that’s true throughout the country. The schools have improved all over. They— In what ways? Well, in their academics and teaching, and that doesn’t just apply to beauty schools, but to all schools in Nevada. They have a very good school system here. They always have had. My cousin, who is deceased right now, he was superintendent of the schools at one time and you know, he clued me in on that aspect. Yes. So even the barber at the haircutting colleges and schools have changed in the last 20 years? Yes. Definitely! What, I don’t know how to say this, what kind of, has a type of person, that has decided on a haircutting career, have they changed in the last 20 years since the mid-1950s? You’ve found a different type of person wanting to go into your industry? Yes. I think we find a lot more men that what to go into the profession than women. ‘Cause they can see that it’s a tremendous trade to get into. And I think that’s where the world’s heading. Young people should definitely try to get a trade under their belt. Because I know so many people that have spent years in college and they still can’t make a living. Yes. Still looking for work. (Laughs) Still trying to pay back the loans that got ‘em through college. Right. I know what you mean. I think college is great and you definitely come out with a broader mind and a more intelligent mind. But I think a trade or some kind is really what a person needs. A profession. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 19 Right. So they can go out and make a living. And contribute something to the world. Right. As far as Las Vegas goes, not from a historical standpoint, but it would be history say 20, 30 years from now, do you see anything holding back Las Vegas, as far as your industry goes, in the next ten years? No. I sure don’t. I just see expansion, expansion. Do you plan to be a part of it? Or you just want to be here in Camelot? No. I want to stay here and expand if I can. Yes. Mm-hmm. How about hairstyles, in the next two or three years? What are the historians gonna say about hairstyles 20 years from now? Oh, they’ll probably look back on them and roar, like they have back in the 1940s. The way the hairstyles looked. (Laughs). (Laughs). Do you think they’ll keep this medium long or whatever trend is supposed to be on now? Or— Well, actually Las Vegas has had the trend of anything goes. You see everything and everybody wearing everything. Yes. And you believe it will keep on like this for the foreseeable future? Yes. I think so, because it’s such a, what’s the word I’m looking for? It’s like a mishmash of people from all over the world that are here. That kind of fits in to the personality of Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. Hairstyle. Right. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 20 Just fits in with the rest of everything. Mm-hmm. Yes. Like clothes. That’s for sure. You see everything in clothing here, also. Yes. Right. What else was I going to add? I don’t think—I think we covered everything, the last 20 years. Can you think of anything maybe significant in your personal life? Or— Oh just that I have grown. How about entertainment-wise? Say, on weekends? What did you do for, say, weekend fun 20 years ago, compared to now? Well, years ago, we used to go out more on the weekends than we do now. Because it wasn’t so crowded. And of course, things were much cheaper then. And also, today people, local people tend to stay at home on weekends. Where would you go 20 years ago, say, back in the summer of 1957, 1958? Oh, we used to kind of hang out at the Silver Slipper and the lounge shows. We used to go into the Sahara Hotel and sit and watch Keely Smith and Sam Butera and the Witnesses, for nothing, you know, just buy a drink and that was all that was necessary. And we used to hit all the lounge shows, which was real nice and it was inexpensive. It was back in the days when you could go to these, these lounge shows and get in for a drink, right? Mm-hmm. And really have a ball. Yes. Really enjoy yourself. Where now it’s just— UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 21 For five bucks, you could stay out all night. (Laughs). Not even go near a slot machine. Right. Yes. But you feel now, in the last say, ten, fifteen years, it’s changed, and the local people stay home? Do you find that? I find that they stay home on the weekends. Yes. I think local people enjoy going out to restaurants and having dinner. They patronize the local restaurants, which I think is great. So, what you’re saying is locals patronize the local places that tourists patronize as tourists. Yes. I find that they do. And they enjoy it. How about back 20 years ago? Did you have the same proportion of local restaurants, local things to do here? Well, we were sort of limited on restaurants in those days. Uh-huh. Most generally, people would go to the hotels, if they wanted a finer restaurant. What were the big name restaurants in those days? Let’s see, at the Flamingo, the finest restaurant there was called—it was a steakhouse, and I can’t remember the name of it now. But, most generally, the hotels had steakhouses or lobster or something like that. Well, over the years they’ve certainly changed the names of them, too, and remodeled. But it’s hard to keep up with it all. Right. Right. Sure. I know. How about local restaurants that weren’t connected with the hotel? UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 22 At that time, let’s see, back in the 1950s, sure can’t give you any names. That’s okay. I don’t need ‘em. (Laughs). I can’t think of any right now. Pick your mind on that. Did you ever go out to the lake or out to Red Rock? Or— Yes. We used to go to the lake a lot. Over to Bonnie Springs Ranch. Horseback riding. I found myself going out of town a lot more then, to L.A., San Diego, San Francisco. Because it was much cheaper to fly. Is that the reason you don’t go now? Compared to 1950s? Well, now it’s a little more expensive to fly. Right. And with gas prices the way they are, it’s a little more expensive to drive. Right. So, I think you’ll find yourself staying home a little more. Enjoying your home and your surroundings. Locally. Right. Do you find, do you mix with your neighbors—did you mix with your neighbors back in the 1950s? Yes. I’m very neighborly. Uh-huh. Do you think, overall, do you find your neighbors mixing with each other as much as before? Yes. I think you do. Uh-huh. Some people say that some of the neighborhoods have become alienated. Where the families stay within their homes and go out to meet the people down the street. Where 20, 30 years ago, they didn’t. I just wondered how it was in your days. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 23 That could be true in some neighborhoods. Yes. Depends on the neighborhood, I think. Yes. That’s true. You’re right. We’ve covered about 25 minutes here. 20, 25 minutes. I can’t think of anything else to add over the last 20 years. Especially the haircutting business, or to ask you, rather. Can you think of anything we’ve left out? Can’t think of anything, either. (Laughs). That should cover it, I think. Yes. We covered all your personal life and your professional life in the last 20 years and the famous people. Any incidences, and situations with any stars that— I think the biggest incident we had in town was when the El Rancho burned down. You know, that was quite a shock to everyone. I don’t remember that personally. I wasn’t here. Yes. That was quite a big thing in town, when that place burned. Were you there or did you read about it the next morning? I lived like three blocks from there. Oh, is that right? Yes. Slept through the whole thing. Oh, you slept through the whole thing— (Laughs). So you can’t give any first person details on it. Only when I went to work that morning I couldn’t believe my eyes, you know. (Laughs). I’ll be darned there were the charred remains. Yes. UNLV University Libraries Roy Brown 24 You slept through the sirens and all the commotion? The whole thing. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. My gosh. How about any incidences with any stars or famous people that occurred with you, when you were cutting hair? Or— No. They’ve all been pleasant experiences. You didn’t bleach anybody when they shouldn’t have, or anything like that? No. (Laughs). Well, if you can’t think of anything else, I can’t either. So, thanks for contributing to the University of Nevada, Las Vegas History Program or interview program. You’re welcome. I hope it will be some benefit to your program. Thank you!