Transcript of interview with Steven Eisen by Barbara Tabach, September 14, 2016

i AN INTERVIEW WITH STEVEN EISEN An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ?Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV ? University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Amanda Hammar iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader?s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Steven Eisen (1966 - ) is the oldest son of Barry and Beverly Eisen, who were part of the migration of Jews from St. Louis to Las Vegas in the 1960s. He is married to Stacy Fisher and the older brother to Andrew and Robert Eisen. They are members of an early group of born-and-raised Las Vegans. Growing up Jewish, he became a bar mitzvah, belonged to B?nai B?rith Youth Organization, In this oral history interview, Steve recalls enjoyable stories of growing up in Las Vegas and humorous anecdotes of mistaken identity since the three brothers bear such strong physical resemblances. Today he finds himself enjoying his career as CEO of the Children?s Heart Center since 2001 and talks about the success and reputation of the pediatric medical group. It was his first job as a fourteen year old helping Theodore Manos and Michael Cherry during the MGM fire litigations where he learned about the legal world and being organized as a path to success in whatever he might pursue. Steve graduated from University of Missouri, attended law school at Washington University in St. Louis, and received his business degree from UNLV. Throughout the interview, he recalls the steady and strong involvement of his parents in their sons? educations. He also describes their active connection with the Jewish community and organizations. Steve?s wife Stacy is a professor in physical therapy at Touro University. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Steven Eisen September 14, 2016 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface??????????????????????????????????..iv Born and raised in Las Vegas, he talks about how his family relocated to southern Nevada from St. Louis, Missouri; son of Barry and Beverly Eisen; father came while at Nellis Ari Force Base in early 1960s; mentions others who came from St. Louis; describes childhood, schools attended, mother involved for eight years with Chaparral High School Parent Advisory Board; older brother to Andrew and Robert Eisen, their current careers?????????..???????.1 ? 3 Talks about grandmother, Molly Eisen, anecdotes about his and his brothers? boyhoods; stories about strong physical resemblance between the three; bar mitzvah at Temple Beth Sholom; belonged to BBYO, AZA, BBG service projects and memberships; capers of teen years?.4 ? 11 Attended University of Missouri; AEPi fraternity; getting the nickname ?Binzer.? Tells of working at age 14 downtown for Theodore Manos and Michael Cherry law firm as a runner during MGM fire litigations; Naomi Cherry godmother to his father Barry; grew into a career that interrupted his college studies at Washington University in St. Louis, worked on other fire-related cases; details about his responsibilities with handling evidence for trials????????.?. 12 ? 18 More about being from Las Vegas while attending University of Missouri; lobbied in for AIPAC as a college student (1984); getting an appointment with Senator Chic Hecht; mentions Howard Cannon and Jim Santini, also representing Nevada at the time?????.??????19 ? 23 Talks about becoming an AZA adviser; his and his parents? involvement with various community organizations: B?nai B?rith; Jewish Family Service Agency; Temple Beth Sholom Sisterhood; Hadassah; ORT. Reflects on Jewish influences on Las Vegas? businesses??????...23 ? 24 Tells story of meeting and marrying his wife Stacy Fisher; how they first met as youngsters in Las Vegas; courtship; Stacy is assistant professor at Touro University, physical therapy, and daughter to an early local doctor, Dr. Barry Fisher???????????????????.??.25 ? 28 vi Talks about Children?s Heart Center and his position there, which started in 2001; how his brother introduced him to the opportunity; Dr. Bill Evans; Dr. Gary Mayman; accepting the job offer; eventually becoming the CEO. Reflects on the reputation of the Children?s Heart Center; the general local medical community; growth of needs with Las Vegas expansions????.29 ? 36 Mentions Jewish holidays; who does the cooking and hosting; family times. Outlines sometimes complex relationships with other families such as Bernie and Herb Kaufman, Wonder World owners, Mike Cherry, his cousins. Enjoys attending B51 baseball games with his parents; Smith Center; collecting art; spoiling his nephews, staying in touch with friends like Elaine and Steve Reiniger, Alan Sabera?????????????????????????..?...37 - 45 vii 1 This is Barbara Tabach. Today is September 14th, 2016. I'm sitting with Steven Eisen in the board room of his office complex here on Maryland Parkway at the Children's Heart Center. Amazing?when I was in the waiting room?how many kids there are waiting for your services. It's amazing. Steve, would you please spell your name for me? Then tell me a bit about what you know about getting to Las Vegas, how your family came to reside here. Sure. I'm Steven Eisen, S-T-E-V-E-N. My last name is E-I-S-E-N. I was born and raised in Las Vegas, so on March 25th, 1966, at Women's Hospital, which was on Sahara Avenue and no longer exists. My parents moved here sometime in 1963. They were married October ninth, 1962, in St. Louis, Missouri where both of them were born and raised. My dad was in the U.S. Air Force for four years after graduating high school, six months in Mississippi and the last three and a half years of his time with the Air Force was at Nellis Air Force Base, as, I believe, a radio repairman. After he completed his service, he ended up staying in Las Vegas. He just liked it, huh? Yes. My dad had an interesting military career. As a radio repairman at Nellis, which is in Las Vegas, fighter pilots would occasionally fly in on a Friday with a broken radio. My dad would say that half the time he'd go on the plane to fix the radio to find out there was nothing wrong with the radio; the pilot just wanted to spend the weekend in Las Vegas. So he would attempt to fix a perfectly functioning radio. So he was really good at that. Yes, yes. So I don't know if he thought working in Las Vegas was going to be easy or what it 2 was. But they decided to stay in Las Vegas and eventually raised a family. A lot of our other relatives from St. Louis ended up relocating to Las Vegas as well all throughout the seventies. So there was a migration of Jewish St. Louis?how do you say it, St. Louisan? Yes, St. Louisans, I believe. Yes, yes, there was. That included people like Herb and Irene Kaufman, Bernie and Barbara Kaufman, Terry Raben, Naomi Cherry, Michael Cherry. I believe some of these people you've probably had the opportunity to interview already. A few of them, yes. It's interesting how people follow their friends and family here, isn't it? Yes. So I had a number of cousins that all grew up here as well. That makes it really nice. You're not just plopped in here like when I moved here; we had no relatives here except with our kids. So what was it like? How would you describe your childhood of growing up in Las Vegas both in a spiritual way, which was the Jewish aspect, as well as just the secular way? I think I had a very good childhood. I had two supportive parents. While we certainly weren't affluent, I don't think my two brothers or I ever really wanted for anything. My parents were supportive of our educational needs, if we wanted to be on sports teams or pursue music or just any activities, and they were always involved?which I think was something that was very important for us. As I mentioned earlier before we were recording, when they built George E. Harris Elementary School [located on Sandhill at Twain], my parents had purchased a house right near the school. My parents were the first PTA presidents at that school for the first two years. Then they were PTA presidents at Lewis E. Rowe Elementary School for two years where one of my brothers and eventually all of us were going to school. They were presidents of the Parent 3 Association at Woodbury Junior High School. My mom was on the board and at one time president of Chaparral High School's Parent Advisory Board because she had sons going to Chaparral High School for eight consecutive years. So she was on the board for eight consecutive years. Just that sense of involvement, of the importance of that has always rung true for me. Even though I don't have children, just wanting to support other children in the community as well and recognizing that importance of having role models, a support system and just involvement; a school is not a baby-sitting service for parents. They're going to be involved whether it's on site or just helping with homework, or even if they're not helping with homework, just asking, "How was your day? What did you learn?" That kind of learn. So my parents were very inspirational in that manner. You're the oldest of three brothers? Yes, I'm the oldest. I have a brother Robert (Bob) Eisen, who is thirteen months younger than me, and then two and a half years younger than Bob is my brother Andrew (Andy) Eisen, who is a pediatrician by training and as of January 2016 is employed by the Valley Health System as their Vice President of Academic Affairs. Andy will be involved in the setting up of GME programs for medical students in residence. What are GME programs? Graduate medical education. After medical students complete medical school, they do residencies and those are the programs. So it will be providing spots for students from not just the University of Nevada, Reno's medical school, but assuming UNLV's medical school gets accredited later this month when they start taking their first class, eventually they will have students that need to do rotations. 4 And your other brother does what? And my brother Bob, or Robert, currently works for the St. Joseph's Hospital system based in California. I believe his title is Vice President of Human Resources. So we're going to come back and explore the medical theme later. So growing up, three boys?boom, boom, boom?and your parents are there constantly present in the school, what was the mischief you guys got into? And don't tell me you were perfect. Well, if my grandmother was here, I would leave that up to her. Her nickname for me was "the perfect kid." And I wasn't going to argue with her because that would just be rude. That was my dad's mom, Molly Eisen. To be honest with you, I really didn't get into a whole lot of mischief. Even today, now that I'm fifty years old, I tend to be the idea man. I'll come up with something and then one of my brothers might do it and then regardless of which one of them did it, my brother Bob would usually be the one who got caught. The way he got caught is he'd end up admitting it. We never got into any kind of serious trouble. I'm trying to think of examples. When you talk about mischief, not me per se, but my brother Bob, one of the stories. When he was in first grade at George E. Harris Elementary School that school was designed to be a premier elementary school. Dr. LeOre Cobbley was an older lady who was known for high academic standards. She did not believe in singling individual students out. So she did not have what at that time was the AT program, Academically Talented. Now I think they have a similar program in the district called the GATE program, but it was called the AT program. She didn't want it at George E. Harris because all students should be able to achieve. But while she had great standards and was very well 5 respected, she was an older lady and was not particularly attractive. But my parents went to a conference with her one day and she explained to them that my brother Bob was just such a wonderful boy and that he would bring her flowers and tell her how beautiful she was. My parents were like, he's six years old. Where is he getting flowers to give to the principal? Well, it turned out on the short walk to school, our next-door neighbors had flowers in their yard that he would periodically just pull out of their yard to take to the principal. So while he was doing that?and I guess trying to get on the good side of the principal?my brother Bob also had an issue where when my parents would ask him if he had homework, his answer was always, "No." And the reasoning for that was, is when the teacher would assign homework, it was kind of a general announcement; she didn't specifically say, "Bob, this is your homework." So he didn't think it applied to him. I can tell you growing up my brothers and I, we always got along. We could get into debates and it could be over any kind of topic, but it never turned into physical altercations or anything like that. In general, we were a united front. We always found it more fun to gang up on someone else than fight amongst ourselves. When I say that, again, it's never anything physical or vindictive or mean-spirited. But if somebody does something silly, you're going to point that out and we'll beat that horse to death. So you pretty much had each other's back growing up. Absolutely. That's really cool. You said you had a resemblance, physical resemblance of each other. Yes, my brothers and I look very much alike and are confused for each other all the time. One recent example, my brother Andrew is a Nevada assemblyman. Towards the end of the session, I went up just to visit with him and see him in session. It's the end of the session, so they're 6 running from hearing to hearing and I would just sit in the well of the different meeting rooms. Then I came out of a room one time and my brother Andy was going to come meet me. We're talking and then he walks off to go talk to a lobbyist. And then I see another assemblyman take a look at me and then he looks down the hall at my brother, then he looks back at me and then he calls my brother over and he goes, "Andy, you've got to get your picture taken with this guy; he looks just like you." And so Andy is just like, "Sure, of course." And he puts his arm around me and he takes the picture. Then he lets him know, "Oh, by the way, this is my brother." But I have numerous times been called Andy or somebody has thought one of them is me. I've had other legislators call me Andy. I was actually at a meeting with Congressman Joe Heck. We went to?I can't even remember what meeting it was. It was like this big conference call meeting in a room filled with chairs around the perimeter. I signed in. And when I went to go sit down, the only seat left was next to Congressman Heck. So I sat down next to him and he put his arm around me and he goes, "Andy, good to see you." And I had to let him know that I'm not who you think I am. So as long as Andy doesn't get into debt with a lot of people, I'm probably okay. Actually, I guess another issue with having all of us look alike is there was a time?I'm the CEO for Children's Heart Center. I work at 3006 South Maryland Parkway. We have an office here. When my brother Andy was with the University of Nevada, School of Medicine, he at one time was the director of the pediatric residency program and they had a pediatric clinic on a different floor in this building. And at the same time, my brother Bob was the vice president for the human resources for Sunrise Hospital, which shares a parking lot with our office and my brother's residents rotate at the hospital. So when my brother Andy's students were walking around or in an elevator, they had no idea which one they were talking to. We could be riding up 7 in the elevator and I'll be called Dr. Eisen, or they'll be over at the hospital and they'll think my brother Bob is Andy. My brother Bob tells one story where one of Andy's residents was in the hospital and came up to him and was trying to explain why they weren't going to be able to make some required meeting and went through the whole story. And then once they finished the story, my brother Bob looked him in the eye and said, "I don't care," and turned around and walked away, just because it wasn't his problem; it was Andy's problem. But we're confused for each other all the time and that started when we were young kids. We'd have complete strangers come up to us and say, "Are you Barry Eisen's son?" So as little kids we knew early on that we weren't going to be able to get away with much because Las Vegas was a much smaller town. When I was born I think the city?s population was somewhere around 75,000 people. Growing up what were you doing as a teenager in Las Vegas? Well, as a teenager and being Jewish, I had my bar mitzvah at thirteen and I joined the B'nai B'rith Youth Organization; Aleph Zadik Aleph or AZA was the boys' group and then B'nai B'rith Girls or BBG was the girls' group. We had two of the AZA chapters and two of the BBG chapters here in Las Vegas; they all met at Temple Beth Sholom, which was the Conservative temple. So that was where your bar mitzvah was. Yes, my bar mitzvah was at Temple Beth Sholom. (My wedding was at Temple Beth Sholom. Not at the same time, though.) So we'd have meetings on Wednesday nights. The groups were social, but they also had a service component and a religious component and community service components. We did various activities, in addition to the weekly meetings. Then we also had 8 periodic conventions. There were the individual chapters that made up the Las Vegas Council and the Las Vegas Council was part of Mountain Region and the region included Utah and Arizona and Nevada. There were chapters in Phoenix and Tucson and Salt Lake City. Then twice a year, there would be meetings that would rotate between some of those cities. Actually I think on your website you've got a picture from the 1977 AZA Mountain Region Convention. I joined in 1979. Oh, so you couldn't find your face in there. No I wasn't in that picture. And then regions made up districts and then districts made up the international. What were some of the service projects that you were doing? One of the ones who were proud?and again, we're talking the 1980 time frame, so it's a long time ago. This is a group of?I think we were about thirty-five boys in our AZA chapter. We did a twenty-four-hour basketball game for the American Cancer Society and raised, I think, around $1300. We played at the junior high school. They gave us the school and we had people playing on the basketball court for twenty-four hours straight; some people sleeping while others were playing. Everybody got sponsors and whatnot. So that was probably one of the bigger fundraisers we had done. Then it's social activities, athletic activities, a whole host of things. As you were growing up, were there many activities or reasons that you would go to the Strip area? Not really as a young child. Understandably, when you're underage you're not going to gamble, but where we could go there would be food. Obviously young boys like to eat and Las Vegas, especially then, was a great place to eat cheap. So going to the Silver Slipper, which is no longer here, and you could get the late-night specials, as they used to advertise, just a $1.99. So you can 9 go with a group of twenty people and the bill wasn't that much. Actually we'd also go to restaurants like Macayo's, the Mexican restaurants where they bring out chips and salsa. You have a group of young people and they're not ordering very much; they're just filling up on chips and salsa. I can tell you one of the things that drove me crazy as a native Las Vegan is even at that point I understood that the wait staff is dependent on tips. So you can't go to a place like the Silver Slipper with twenty people who get these $1.99 specials and say, "Oh, the total bill was $40.00, so fifteen percent is $6.00. So we only need to leave a six-dollar tip." I mean, you have to take that into consideration. So even then I would always say, "Okay, I've got to leave a little something extra on the table just so I don't feel bad." In terms of mischief, we'd do things that typical kids did at that time, like TP-ing, toilet paper. So you get a group of people to go out and toilet paper houses. Again, it wasn't vandalism. You only did it to somebody who was going to be able to take it or maybe had done you the week before. But, yes, you would go out. It got to the point where...We have stories where we had one set of parents that would actually supply the toilet paper to us because they wanted their daughters to have to clean up the yard. Or we had one night where they went out and one of the people going around with the group TP-ing houses was a double agent; my brothers and I got a phone call, "We're going to be at your house in fifteen minutes to TP the house; be ready." So we were there. As soon as they come out and went on the yard, we turned on all the sprinklers and had a hose ready for them. So we got them. Then just as they're going to go on to the next house, the same person came up to me and goes, "We're going to Jerry Novak's house next, so call him as soon as we leave." That sounds like fun. Yes, it's all in fun. Another story from that time period is we'd do something called a snatch 10 breakfast; that's where in the early morning hours you go round everybody up and you just go out to eat and maybe do something. So it would be on a weekend. Basically the organizers would call the parents and say, "We're going to do this thing tomorrow morning. We're going to be at your house somewhere between three and four in the morning. Can you leave the door unlocked so we can go in and wake up your son?" When I was president of the organization, my vice president and I decided, oh, we're going to do one of these. So we got it all organized and we start going out. We had a couple of new members that has just joined. And I was there with a group of people. We parked the car and the door is locked. So we knock on the door and this woman opens the [door]. One of the guys in the group looks at her and goes, "Hi, we're here to kidnap your son." And she goes, "Oh, he's upstairs." We all go upstairs and get around the bed and one person?he's under the covers?stands over him with a big squirt gun. And we rip the covers off and start squirting him in the face and go, "Snatch breakfast, get ready." He wipes the sleep from his eyes. He sits up. And we realize we are in the wrong house. Oh, no. We have no idea who this kid is. So we're like, "I think we're in the wrong house." So we all come out of the room and now down the hall we see this kid's father, who is this enormous man whose head almost hits the door frame, and we go, "We've got to get out of here." So we start walking down the stairs and that's when we first notice the giant cross on the wall. AZA, a Jewish youth organization, we are definitely in the wrong house. So we finally make our way to the door, we're walking out, and one of our friends starts up a conversation with the mom about what we're doing and, "Oh, we're sorry." She's like, "Oh, 11 it looked like a lot of fun. Sorry he can't go." So, "Let's get out of here." So we finally left. But needless to say, we never did find the right kid that day. Who were you looking for? It was just one of our new members that nobody had been to his house. That's funny. And today, oh my, that would not happen quite that way. Today you would probably get shot or the police would be there. Oh, yes, it would have been a tragedy instead?but the mother let you in. Yes. "We're here to kidnap your son." "Oh, yes, he's right upstairs." Does this happen often? That's really a slice of Americana. That really is. But even then when that would happen...My family has always been night owls. We're up very late. We eat very late. We stay up late. Six a.m. meetings would not be good for us, but midnight meetings would be fine. So when they called my parents when I was young and said, "We want to come over for one of these events," my parents would sit up and wait for them and open the door. They're going to know what's going on. They'd be happy to drive even. "Here, I'll drive you," if the kids are too young. B'nai B'rith Youth Organization is basically age thirteen to seventeen. A lot of the kids aren't driving at that point. So sometimes you're dependent upon your parents to help out. That is straight out of a movie. And I'm glad it had an okay ending. It did have an okay ending. This is pre-high school. So by the time you're at Chaparral High School, what was it like to be a Jewish kid in high school in Vegas? It's kind of funny. I am certainly cognizant of prejudice in the world and things like that. But if I'm going to be honest, I never really experienced that kind of thing. Now, I also have a 12 personality where I guess I'm not attractive to being picked on or to bullies, and I'll explain that a little more in a minute. But I really didn't experience much in the way of bullying because I'm smaller in stature. So I've always been in small in class. I've worn glasses since I was eight or nine. I'm Jewish. But I never had anyone have anything negative to say to me because I was Jewish. I think I was called Four Eyes once when I was in elementary school. But I was never in a fight, a physical confrontation in elementary, junior high, high school, any of that. Again, I think part of it is my personality in that things don't bother me. I know I?m jumping past high school, but when I first went away to college?I went to the University of Missouri in Columbia, Missouri?I wanted the away-from-home experience; the university is two hours outside of St. Louis where I still had a tremendous amount of family. So if I couldn't make it back to Las Vegas, but wanted a place to go for either the Jewish holidays or another holiday like Thanksgiving, I could just drive into St. Louis and be with family. I joined AEPi, which is a historically Jewish fraternity. And the reason AEPi was set up in 1913 as a Jewish fraternity was because at that time if you were Jewish, the other fraternities wouldn't let you in. Nowadays obviously there are protections against that. So other fraternities have Jewish members and AEPi, while it has a Jewish history, you can be non-Jewish and still join AEPi as well. But when I joined AEPi, it was a typical fraternity. I was a freshman. It's a very large Greek system there. We had a very large house physically. We could house seventy-five people in that house. So pledges lived in the house as opposed to living out of the house. So you were basically on call to the actives twenty-four hours a day if they felt like now is the time to pick on the pledges. But again, I went in with the attitude of this is what I'm willing to accept; this is 13 what I'm not willing to accept; I'm not willing to accept physical things; I'm not willing to accept...whatever, X, Y, Z. But if they're going to yell at me, if they're going to give me a pledge nickname, if they're going to give me ridiculous tasks that I'm supposed to do or whatever, I'm fine with that. So I never had a bad reaction. My very first day when I'm working the kitchen, a group of the seniors wanted a pitcher of ice water and they wanted exactly a hundred cubes of ice in the pitcher. So I go to the ice machine. I'm supposed to be counting out the ice cubes to make sure there's a hundred cubes. So it's like, fine, I'm happy to do it. I have no reaction. So in their minds I'm not fun whereas somebody who complains about things or when you're yelling at them yells back, you're now fun. So they're going to want to pick on you more. I just didn't have to do it that much. My pledge nickname, which I ended up getting in college, was Binzer. Again, that first week I was there originally they gave me the name ?Dan Tanna.? Now, the University of Missouri is in Columbia, Missouri. It's a hundred and twenty-five (miles) west of St. Louis and a hundred and twenty-five (miles) east of Kansas City, the center of the state. The vast majority of the students in my fraternity are either from St. Louis or Kansas City. Needless to say, I was the only person from Las Vegas. Well, Dan Tanna, you may or may not know, was the Robert Urich's character on the television show Vega$, which was about a private investigator who worked in Las Vegas. So that was my name, Dan Tanna, for about a week. And then they realized that that name was probably too cool for a pledge. So they gave me the name of Dan Tanna's sidekick on the show, the comic relief character Binzer. And my nickname became Binzer. Well, again, I looked at, why did I get that name? Was it because I did something stupid and now they want to remind me of it constantly? No. They gave me that name because I was 14 from Las Vegas. I had no problem with it. It got to the point where people would call me Steve in the fraternity house and I wouldn't turn around because I was used to be called Binzer. Oh, that's a good story. I still use that nickname. This is kind of a reminder (of) college. I think you were looking more at high school. When I was in high school at Chaparral, I actually started working at age fourteen. I worked for a local law firm. Really? Which one? Yes, as a runner, Manos and Cherry, because at that time? What was the name of the firm again? It was Ted Manos or Theodore Manos. And Cherry, as in Michael Cherry, who I believe you've interviewed already. Yes, I have. Michael Cherry is now a Nevada Supreme Court Justice. While technically not related to my family, it's as good as if he was. His mother, Naomi Cherry, was my godfather's secretary here for many years at the Wonder World department stores. Whenever there were family events the Cherry family was part of that as well. He's another St. Louis native who moved out here who was part of the migration. Anyway, I worked as a runner for Manos and Cherry. At that time they had a law firm of three attorneys. And at that time, I would say ninety-nine percent, if not a hundred percent, of all the law firms in the city were in downtown Las Vegas. The old county courthouse was at 200 Carson Street downtown. Manos and Cherry was 501 South Sixth Street. Carson is actually Second Street. So it goes Sixth. Fifth Street is called 15 Las Vegas Boulevard, which if you follow that around becomes the Strip. Then there's Fourth Street, Third Street. Casino Center is Second Street. There's First Street and then Main Street and Fremont Street is right there. It's older Las Vegas. So if you were a young kid who didn't drive, you could still be a runner because if you were taking papers from one law firm to another or going to file something at the courthouse or the federal courthouse was down there, the bankruptcy court was down there, it was a very compact area. You would just get all your papers in a little folder and you would walk around and make your little stops. One day Ted Manos?and I got that job because of Michael Cherry?they needed a runner. It was a series of family members that were runners, cousins or whatnot, and as that one would leave to do something else, another one would take the slot. When I left, my brother Bob became the runner for a little while for the law firm. But one day Ted Manos