Judy Jetter, a devout jazz music enthusiast, was born in a Chicago suburb in 1939. At the age of three, Judy began taking acting as well as tap and ballet classes. While raised by her mother until age 15 Judy was forced to study opera even though jazz music was her passion. Her first introduction to jazz came while listening to, legendary jazz great, Woody Herman on the radio. Judy developed an instant appreciation and love for jazz music. While working as a commercial actress during her childhood - Super Circus and Peter Pan peanut butter - Judy experienced live performances by the Stan Kenton Orchestra and was completely amazed. After graduation Judy was married and gave birth to her son. She worked for a movie studio in Chicago doing various jobs such as cleaning the stage, typing scripts, model work, and even playing the role of housewife. Later Judy went to college and earned a degree in psychology, which led to a job as a therapist. However, after remarrying to Bill Jetter, Judy switched careers and soon became an exercise instructor at the YMCA. There she cultivated her passion for working with people who suffered from disabilities. In particular, Judy developed a water regiment specifically designed for people with disabilities. Judy would go on to share her experiences in this field in two subsequent book publications. Unfortunately Judy's husband passed away with cancer. However, Judy found refuge and support from a group of jazz enthusiasts. Alongside her cadre, Judy began really studying how to listen to music. She moved to Las Vegas in 1992 and can often be found at different jazz venues throughout the city. She enjoys the local jazz scene in Las Vegas and making her weekly rounds to take-in Big Band and jazz singers such as Jobell and Terri James, as well as going to see Bruce Harper playing at Bugsy's, and the talented Gus Mancuso performing at the Bootlegger. Judy believes that music, like everything else, has evolved and will continue to mature; however, jazz musicians such as Louis Armstrong still remain as the foremost contributors in the long history of jazz music. Her hope is that music and the arts will continue to be offered through education to allow the next generation another "dimension to not only their education but their soul."
[Transcript of interview with Judy Jetter by Lisa Gioia-Acres, September 10, 2008]. Jetter, Judy Interview, 2008 September 10. OH-02106. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections & Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.
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ml 3ff jri not An Interview with Judy Jetter An Oral History Conducted by Lisa Gioia - Acres September 10th, 2008 Interview All That Jazz Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©All That Jazz Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2008 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editors: Barbara Tabach, Melissa Robinson Transcribers: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Project Assistants: Lisa Gioia-Acres and Claytee D. White The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Harold L. Boyer Charitable Foundation. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the All That Jazz Oral History Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada Las Vegas 4 Table of Contents Interview with Judy Jetter September 10th, 2008 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Lisa Gioia - Acres Preface......................................................................................v Judy Jetter named after Judy Garland; bom in a suburb of Chicago in 1939; started taking acting lessons at age three; along with singing, dancing, tap and ballet; was forced to study opera as mother was a fan who hated jazz; mother passed away when she was 15 and moved with her father; mother was a teacher then a social worker; only child; first introduction to music was Woody Herman; meeting Woody Herman; experience doing commercials Super Circus and Peter Pan peanut butter; introduction to the Stan Kenton Orchestra; marriage; relationship with Bill Jetter; Dave Grusin and Chick Corea.................................................1-5 Acting work in Chicago as a kid; after graduation married Mr. Nagy; worked for a movie studio in Chicago; being a mom; went to college and obtained a degree in psychology and worked as a therapist; traveling around the world for husbands job; worked at the YMCA in La Grange, IL instructing exercise and pool exercise for people with health problems; experience as an author; incorporating music with the water exercise classes; teaching at the Chicago Land Spine Center...................................................................................6 - 12 Husbands passing; president of the Southern Nevada Mensa; meeting up with a jazz group at Andy’s; encounter with Barrett Deems drummer for Louis Armstrong; mention of work as a ghostwriter; move to Las Vegas in ’92 or ’93; listening to Bruce Harper playing at Bugsy’s and Tony Scaldwell; mention of going to see Gus Mancuso playing at the Bootlegger; mention of jazz singer Jobell who teaches at UNLV; jazz singer Terri James; goes out 3 to 4 nights a week to listen to music; thoughts on where jazz music is going today in Las Vegas; Carolyn Freeman - Peacock Entertainment; Rick Jones - Jazz To You.....................................13 - 24 Index...................................................................................26 IV Preface Judy letter, a devout jazz music enthusiast, was bom in a Chicago suburb in 1939. At the age of three, Judy began taking acting as well as tap and ballet classes. While raised by her mother until age 15 Judy was forced to study opera even though jazz music was her passion. Her first introduction to jazz came while listening to, legendary jazz great, Woody Herman on the radio. Judy developed an instant appreciation and love for jazz music. While working as a commercial actress during her childhood - Super Circus and Peter Pan peanut butter - Judy experienced live performances by the Stan Kenton Orchestra and was completely amazed. After graduation Judy was married and gave birth to her son. She worked for a movie studio in Chicago doing various jobs such as cleaning the stage, typing scripts, model work, and even playing the role of housewife. Later Judy went to college and earned a degree in psychology, which led to a job as a therapist. However, after remarrying to Bill Jetter, Judy switched careers and soon became an exercise instructor at the YMCA. There she cultivated her passion for working with people who suffered from disabilities. In particular, Judy developed a water regiment specifically designed for people with disabilities. Judy would go on to share her experiences in this field in two subsequent book publications. Unfortunately Judy’s husband passed away with cancer. However, Judy found refuge and support from a group of jazz enthusiasts. Alongside her cadre, Judy began really studying how to listen to music. She moved to Las Vegas in 1992 and can often be found at different jazz venues throughout the city. She enjoys the local jazz scene in Las Vegas and making her weekly rounds to take-in Big Band and jazz singers such as Jobell and Terri James, as well as going to see Bruce Harper playing at Bugsy’s, and the talented Gus Mancuso performing at the Bootlegger. Judy believes that music, like everything else, has evolved and will continue to mature; however, jazz musicians such as Louis Armstrong still remain as the foremost contributors in the long history of jazz music. Her hope is that music and the arts will continue to be offered through education to allow the next generation another “dimension to not only their education but their soul.” v ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV All That Jazz Oral History Project Use Agreement Name Name We, tile above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded intcrvievv(s) initiated on )Q - O1^____________as an unrestricted gilt, to he used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall he determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude the right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 This is Lisa Gioia-Acres. And today is September 10th, 2008. I am conducting an oral history interview for the All That Jazz oral history project for UNLV. And I'm here today with supposedly jazz's biggest fan here in Las Vegas, Judy Jetter. Hi, Judy. How are you? I'm fine, Lisa. How are you? Very, very good. Thank you so much for taking the time to see me. And before we get into the questions of your involvement in the jazz world here in Las Vegas and maybe even before that, I'd like you to share with me a little bit about your early life, your childhood, mom and dad, where you came from, just that whole stuff. So I'm just going to let you talk a little bit. Okay. My mother was very taken with Shirley Temple and some of the other people, Judy Garland; thus, my name Judy. And I was bom the year that The Wizard of Oz came out. And so I think half the female children were named Judy. And my mother, though, took it one step farther and I got my AFTRA and Social Security card when I was three years old. What is that? It's the actors union. And I started out in modeling as a little kid. Then I did some acting and things like that. Where were you born? Oh, I'm sorry. In Chicago, a suburb of Chicago. And lived all of my life until I moved to Las Vegas from Chicago, although I've traveled all over. But I don't move really well. Anyway, along with the acting I got all of the lessons - - singing, dancing, acting, tap, ballet, you know, the whole thing. And my mother was very much against jazz. She did not like jazz. Jazz was, you know, a bad thing. And she liked opera. So, consequently, I studied opera. I hated it. And I would listen to jazz literally under the covers with the radio and the pillow. It's amazing that I didn't smother myself. But anyway, my father and mother separated on and off. So my father wasn't too much of an influence on me until my mother died when I was 15 and I went to live with my father. And this was a 1 horrific thing for me because I had been told that he was not a very nice person. And I found out that he probably wasn't a very good husband. But he was a wonderful father and a lovely human being. He died when I was 22 or 23. But during that interim from the time I was 15 until, say, 23, we became best friends as well as father and daughter. Then I learned my father's family, who I didn't know growing up. I think that probably the music was always there. My mother used to tell a story about watching a parade one time. And I guess my father - - this is when we were together - - had me on his shoulders and I was keeping time to the drumbeat with my foot. And I don't know if other kids do that or not. But I've never had a problem with time. I think I like jazz because it is so involved. It's so intricate. And you can have different time signatures at the same time and you can have different instruments doing different things and building on each other. There's such an unstructured structure to it, it is the only way that I can describe it as a layman. So that's my story. Well, talk about mom's influence on you. Was she a frustrated actor or musician herself? Probably. I don't know. What did she do for a living? She was a social worker. She was a teacher in Iowa. In those days one teacher taught several grades. And then when she moved to Chicago, she became a social worker. But she was ill for a long time before she died. So I don't know that much about her other than, yes, I'm sure she was a frustrated whatever. You know, I don't want to say anything unkind. We all have things that - - devils that we fight. And hers was perhaps that she wanted to be more than a social worker. And so Hollywood and the movie business and all that entertainment world was in your home from an early age on? Yes. Did you have brothers and sisters? No. Only child. So did your mom have the financial income to where she could take you to movies and things like 2 that? Did you spend a lot of time in the theater? I think she was very careful with what I saw. I saw a lot of Disney. I saw all of the Disney. Saw The Wizard, of course, and reruns and things like that. But, no, she probably - - there were a lot of movies that I didn't see. But she liked the musicals. Can you recall your very first introduction to jazz music? Yes. Woody Herman. I was probably a single-digit person. And we went into like a little soda shop. And in those days they had a little thing that you flipped and it had all the songs on it. And I wanted to hear Woody Herman's "Woodchopper's Ball" because I had heard it on my radio at night. And my mother, of course, said no because Woody Herman was - - although he was big band, she had him in that jazz category. And I said yes. And she said no. And so I wound up on the floor kicking and screaming and being an absolute brat and never did get to hear Woody Herman. But the sequel to that is many, many, many years later I met Woody Herman and the lady that took care of him and was his companion after his wife died. This was in Chicago. Woody was there and a friend and I went out with them several times not only to jazz events but to dinner and things. And I told Woody the story of my lying down on the floor kicking and screaming. And he looked at me and took a sip of his drink and looked at me again. He said, "Great taste." So that's my Woody Herman story. But that is the first jazz that I remember. Possibly your desire for jazz might have hinged a little bit on childhood rebellion against parental authority? Probably ten percent I think. Ninety percent I believe there's something - - I believe it's genetic. And I did not get the talent. And because I had the singing lessons and the acting lessons and all that, I have a very good grasp of who I am. And when I hear musicians and singers, particularly female singers who are great, I am just in awe of them and I know that I could not do that. I know what talent I have and it would not be enough to carry me or to be a peer of Ella and Sarah and even some of the people in Chicago - - I'm sorry - - in Las Vegas. I forget where I am sometimes. What did you do with those lessons? Did you do any commercial work at all? 3 Oh, Yes. Sure I did. Can you give us some examples? Oh, many, many, many years ago I worked a lot for the commercial trade. In Chicago there were more trade things. If your company wanted to introduce a new product and teach people how to operate it or how to manufacture it, I did that. I did a lot of early TV. I did the "Super Circus." Marry Hartline was my idol for a while. And I did “Super Circus” that was a commercial. I don't remember the product. I do remember Peter Pan peanut butter. And that was, again, the Woody Herman Orchestra - - I'm sorry. No. It was the Stan Kenton Orchestra. And it was the first time that I saw that music was created by people. Music had always come out of a radio or a phonograph. And I never put it together that people were actually playing instruments live together. As a child I never understood that until I saw all of these guys. And they were up on the bandstand and Stan Kenton was rehearsing them. And I think my mouth fell open and I was just transfixed. I stood there. For some reason my mother allowed it. I don't know why. Frankly, probably because the guys were all white. There was also that racial thing going on particularly in Chicago. Anyway, during the break Kenton called me over because he saw me standing there. And he talked to me and asked me if I liked the music. Of course, and I don't remember the specific conversation, but I do remember winding up on some saxophonist's lap and him showing me the instrument and allowing me to touch it and maybe even blow through it. That I don't remember. But this was a big, big thing for me. And, of course, I did not know that Stan Kenton was world-famous. What does a little eight-, nine-year-old kid know about these things? But, again, the sequel is years later I was talking to Joe Romano, who is a fellow who has since moved to Seattle. But Joe was in that orchestra. And he looked at me and smiled and said, "It was my lap, little girl." But I think he was kidding me. I'm sure he didn't remember. I think it was just a joke. Oh, wow. So was jazz big in Chicago? I don't know. I was a kid. My mother would never take me to actually see a jazz performance. My goodness, you know, that was the devil's music. Yes, I believe it was from knowing the people later on 4 that as a child all I had was my little child's world. Judy, I didn't ask you in the beginning is Judy Jetter the name you were born with? No. The family name was Wojchechowski. And when my grandmother came over here from Poland, she realized that Americans couldn't pronounce it. So she got the brilliant idea to change the name. So she took every second or third letter of Wojchechowski and came out with Wiech, which no one could pronounce. Can you spell Wojchechowski first? Do you know how to spell that? W-O-J-C-H-E-C-H-O-W-S-K-I. I can only do it quickly. I can't do it slowly. And now say the name that you ended up - - W-I-E-C-H, which someone told me one time is something like cabbage head or something. But, anyway, people had trouble with Wiech and that pronunciation. And I would tell people as a kid it rhymes with peach and that was easier. And, no, Jetter was not my second name. I was married to a gentleman named Nagy and I had one child with Mr. Nagy. And he wasn't a very nice man. So we divorced after a very short time. And then I was married to another man named Sheehy. And Mr. Sheehy was also a nice man, but he and I just had our differences. But then I met Jetter. And he had worked his way through college as a musician, self-taught. He worked in the big bands and played piano. But he played predominately by ear. And what he told me he would do is he would listen to the rehearsal. He'd go to the rehearsal and listen to the band. And he could read music, but very badly. And then he would go home and practice for a couple of hours, go back that night and play the gig. So he taught me how to listen to jazz. He taught me a lot of the mechanics of jazz and to listen to the various instruments and to be able to separate and to see how one guy was working with another man and they were complementing or sometimes fighting, arguing with each other, which happens too once in a while on the bandstand. How old were you when you married Mr. Jetter? 5 Mid-thirties. And he opened a whole new world of jazz to you? Well, he had enough money to take me to clubs. That was a beginning. He always had the jazz in him. He loved Dave Grusin and Chick Corea. And I had just discounted them entirely because I was stuck more in the 40s and maybe early 50s. But anyway, he taught me, as I say to listen and he taught me the beauty of the complexity. What were the two names that you just mentioned? Oh, Dave Grusin and Chick Corea. I've never heard of them before. Google them. You'll find out who they are. This is very interesting. And how long were you married to Mr. Jetter? We were only married for a little less than eight years and he died. So I have been a widow since '84. But can you imagine you married your musician? Well, he was more than that. We shared many things. Music was just part of it. That's wonderful. That's really wonderful. Talk about what you did in your early life as far as an occupation. Okay. I did the acting and all of that until my mother became ill. Before I forget, what was your stage name, your acting name? Oh, I always went under Wiech because I didn't do anything - - you know, I wasn't doing leads or anything like that. Most of it was commercial work or the trade movies and things like that, a little bit of stage work. Oh, you know who I worked with that was kind of fun? What was his name? Oh, I can't think of his name now. This very famous in Chicago, beginning with an S. At one time there was a TV show and I was hired to be the little runny-nosed kid to come in and - - 6 Not Soupy Sales? No, not Soupy Sales. It'll come to me I'm sure after the interview is over. But anyway, he had this TV show and I was the little runny-nosed kid who came in. And my whole act was to come in, blow my nose and then run out again. And it was like a standing joke. And so I think that went on for the better part of a year. And I had to be tutored at the time because of the shooting schedule. So I met a lot of interesting people there. And a lot of actors were also musicians or very much into music, if not musicians themselves. So I always had that thread despite my mother. Then I graduated from high school and married Mr. Nagy, who was the boy next door. I was the girl next door. Didn't work out. So then I divorced him and I got a job at the very movie studio - - one of the movie studios in Chicago that I had worked for. And I was the all-around girl. I typed scripts. I did everything. You know, I sometimes had to clean the stage and did some modeling of mostly at that time hands or I would do the housewife because they could get me cheaper. I did that for a while. By that time I was a mommy. So I had a little boy to take care of and feed. The child wanted to eat regular. I couldn't figure that one out. After several years I decided that this was not going to be my career being basically just a secretary and gofer. So I went back to college and got a degree in psychology. During that time I married my second husband and he had some emotional problems. That didn't work out. So after I finished that I worked as a therapist for a while. I did have some postgraduate work. I did some therapy for a while, but it wasn't my bag. People don't come to therapists when they're happy. And listening to people's problems all day, some of them real problems, some of them problems of their own making - - I said this isn't for me. So by that time I had married Mr. Jetter, my third husband. He didn't care what I did. We had enough money. I didn't have to work or I could work or whatever I wanted to do. The only thing was we did a lot of traveling, he did for his job. As his wife I was encouraged to come along and take care of the other wives while he did his business thing. So I went all over the world with him. Again, I was able to hear the best of the best. During that time I decided that retiring and just being a housewife was not my bag. So I began 7 working, believe it or not, for the YMCA in La Grange, Illinois, in the pool, in the water because I loved to swim. My son and I, who was pretty much grown by that time, had taken life-saving and WSI classes. So the Y hired me to be a lifeguard and to teach an exercise class for women. I had no idea how to teach an exercise class. I had never had exercise since high school because I was excused from it in college. I got my old-age dispensation because I finished college when I was in my early 30s. I didn't have to take gym. So I went to the library and I got a lot of books. I looked at exercise books. And then I took all of the exercises and shifted them 45 degrees. So instead of reaching down to touch your toes, I brought the toes up to the hands. That's my telephone. We'll forget about that. "The Pink Panther" is on my telephone, which was by the way one of the lovely jazz tunes of that era when folk music was in and jazz was out. "The Pink Panther" and some of the kids' programs were jazz programs. All of the music was - - actually, that's what kept the jazz musicians going. But anyway, back to the exercise. So anyway, I taught exercise. My classes were always full. The ladies loved me. But right after I finished teaching my class when I was life guarding, I saw this lady. Her people were coming in on wheelchairs - - not so much wheelchairs, but canes and walkers. Yes, a couple on wheelchairs. And they had to be helped into the pool. This was before all these lovely lifts of today. And I saw what she was doing with them. So after about the third class, I went over to her and I said I don't know what you're doing, but I want some. And she looked at me and said what do you mean? I said, well, I see these people and they're happy. And I see them doing things in the water that they could not possibly do on land. And it turned out she was an occupational therapist. That tells me that someone left me a message. I'm sorry. I should have turned it off. She was an occupational therapist and she had really severe arthritis. So she started out doing people with arthritis, but later on moved to people with MS, people who just had surgery and people with back problems. So she said, well, I can teach you what I do. I said, well, I'll demonstrate up on the deck while you do it in the water because you can't see the legs underwater. So we did that for a few weeks. Then I went up to her - - her name was Nancy Kadilak - - and I said, Nancy, we're going to write a book. She said we are? I said Yes. I said we’re going to write a book. Oh, I didn't tell you I also did 8 some writing among other things. I ghostwrote a couple of books - - I forgot about that - - off-the - books, you know, under the table. And I knew I could write. She said we're going to write a book? I said Yes. I said you're going to do the exercises and I'm going to write them and we'll publish the book. And she said, okay, I’m game. So we did. And meanwhile, the classes were going well. Now I'm teaching two classes. She got - - it worked out to be 103 exercises together. I wrote them. I wrote the whole book. And I sent it - - oh, I told my husband to find me a publisher. And he said how can I do that? I said, well, Yes, that's right. So I went to the library and, again, pulled down all the books. And I got all the books on exercise, all the books on spas and whatever I could on water exercise, which wasn't much. Then I opened them and I just put down the names of the publishers. And I ticked them off, you know. Prentice Hall came in first. So I told my husband, I said, I want the head guy at Prentice Hall. He said, well, how in the world do you expect me to get that? I said, look, I just wrote a whole book. All I'm asking you is for one little name. Now, let's get on this. So he came home that evening. And I guess he got his secretary on it. And she was a little bulldog. And so he said here's the name. Okay, fine. So I sent my manuscript to this fellow and waited a month or two and got a really nice rejection letter. I mean a really nice rejection letter. So I called him up and I said I want to tell you that was the nicest rejection letter that anyone has ever gotten. He said but you do understand that I've rejected book? I said, oh, absolutely, you must have a good reason. I said that's not the reason for my call. I said you and I both know that I need an agent. I can't sell the book without an agent. And you obviously think my book has merit. So could you recommend an agent? And he said, well, yes, you should call - - I can't remember her name now. She lives in Boston. But don't do it until I call her first. So you call her this afternoon about mid-afternoon. I said okay. So I called the lady mid-afternoon. And she said I've been expecting your call. So-and-so from Prentice Hall called me. She said do you know who that is? I said, Yes, his name is so-and-so. She said do you know who he published? And I said no. She said he published Fonda. And I said he didn't want to follow Jetter with Fonda? I don't believe it. Well, she got to laughing and I found out that she had an Irish setter that she loved a lot. And I've always been a dog person. We talked dogs for a while. So at the end of the conversation she agreed to represent me sight unseen - - or Nancy and I because when I say 9 me, I should be including Nancy in this. So we went over to - - Bill and I, my husband and I went over to Boston and met with her. I gave her the book. Nancy and I had posed for some of the shots. She said, well, you're going to have to probably hire professional models to do this. I said, well, I used to model. I don't know why we need professionals. So she said, well, let's try it. So we hired a professional photographer to take some better pictures than just little Polaroids. It wound up that Hope Rhinehart and Winston bought the book. Nancy and I modeled it. I think we used my husband and son just a little bit in that first book - - no - - just my husband in the first book because we needed a guy and sometimes you needed three to look like a crowd for some of the scenes. We did the inside work in my basement in Indian Head Park, Illinois. We did the pool work, the pool shots in a little place called the (William Tell Inn) right down the street in Countryside, Illinois. They loved it. And the book was published. What's the name of the book? Oh, it's just - - what was the name of it? Very uninteresting name. Arthritis Exercises for Home and Pool or something. I'll show you the books upstairs. I'll give you a copy of the second one in a minute. So anyway, then she sold it to a firm in the UK. So it got published in the UK in paperback. But they only published here in hardback, which I didn't want. I wanted paperback because the people couldn't take the book to the water because they would get it wet whereas the paperback is inexpensive. But we never got it in paperback. It would have sold better in paperback. But it did well in the UK. So I thought, gee, this is kind of fun. And I was still working at the Y and still working with the arthritis people. I've got this whole little career going and actually making some money, not a lot. But, you know, that was nice, too. So then we - - oh, a long about this time I decided that just our regular water women's exercise class was getting a little boring. So I was the first person I believe ever to bring music into the pool area. Now they have music in all of the newer places. They pipe in music. But I had my little radio, phonograph sort of a thing. And I selected the music. We started out with a march because you get in the water and it's cold. You have to warm up. So it was kind of - - not a running march. You can't run in water. But to get the things going. Then we started with leg exercises. And I did "September Mom" to 10 that one. And then I did a little bit of "Hooked on Classics." And then I did some Louis Armstrong in there. I would work up and down the body. Anyway, I had about 12 tunes. And the ladies loved it. They just loved it. You know, people would see me. But it was so much easier to lift your hand and to bend and then to come down again and then swish it through the water because you're using these muscles when you have something with time. And I also found out that a lot of people - - this is the first time I understood that some people don’t have a good sense of rhythm. And I never understood that. So I wound up clapping four-four count when they were marching. And the ladies liked that, too. So we learned a lot from each other. Then later on I went in and taught for the Chicago Land Spine Center for a little bit and I taught at another place, the something sports center. I don't remember now. I remember at the sports center, though, my boss came up to me. She said I want you to do a Sunday morning class. You're not religious are you? I said, well, no. I'm Christian at least. And she said, okay, then you can do Sunday morning. She said and what I want is a nice soothing 40 or 50 minutes. And when these ladies come out of the water, I want them to feel like butter. I said butter, okay, fine, butter-butter. So we went down to the - - oh, went back to the library because by now they had new books. You know, I'm like five years into it. And I found a lady who was working on exercise for people with handicaps, land exercises. She was using balls, big balls, which now I guess they're selling all over the place. But this was new at that time. I said, um, balls. So we got in the water and I said to the ladies we're doing something different. You're supposed to feel like butter. That's your job. My job is to make you feel like butter. Got it? And they all laughed and thought that was funny. So I said we have a ball. Your ball is your imaginary ball. It can be as big or as small as you want and it can be any color. And I want you to carry this ball. And I want you to put the ball up and down. I want you to move the ball side to side. And I want you now to expand the ball and climb in the ball and I want you to hit the ball. As you hit the ball you're going to hear musical notes up on top. You hear the violins, maybe little bells. And as you go down you're going to hear some of the other instruments, maybe a cello, something like that. Get down a little further and you're going to hear some saxophones and trumpets. Now, these ladies didn't know what I was talking about, but they liked the idea. And they're moving. They're moving their arms. I know with the recording you can't see what I'm doing but, if you 11 can visualize a ball and just hitting the ball. Now, if you want to kick the ball way down here in the bass trumpet and maybe even a bass fiddle and things like that, kick it some more. Now, did you have a bad morning or if not today, how about yesterday? Would you like to really k