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Transcript of interview with Miriam "Mimi" Katz by Barbara Tabach, December 10, 2014






In this interview, Mimi Katz discusses growing up in the Boston area and her schooling, and moving to Washington, D.C. working as a physiotherapist. She returned to Boston and met her husband, and she talks about moving to Las Vegas and adjusting to life here. They became involved at Temple Beth Sholom, and Mimi worked as a conventions coordinator at the Sands and the Sahara. She discusses moving around in Las Vegas from an apartment to a house in the John S. Park neighborhood, working for the Jewish Federation, and helping to develop the Holocaust education program with Edythe Katz, conducting oral history interviews with survivors. She continued working at the Convention Center in the 1980s, and is involved in the Lou Ruvo Center.

Everyone knows her as Mimi. She was born Miriam Green to immigrant parents in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1926. As a youngster she danced, excelled at school and enjoyed an abundance of sports. To pay for her higher education at Massachusetts School of Physiotherapy she worked at Raytheon Manufacturing. In 1957 she married George Katz who swept her away to their honeymoon in Las Vegas. It's a story that she loves to recall-they never left. She sent for her things and energetically settled in to her new hometown and marriage. Mimi found employment with the Clark County School District, began having children (three daughters), and making fast new friends. Many of these friends were from the founding days of Temple Beth Sholom, which roots her to the history of the local Jewish community. In addition, for a decade she worked in community relations for the Jewish Federation. She valued community activism and volunteered over the years for many organizations; such as Easter Seals, Jewish War Veterans, Parent Teachers Association and the Lou Ruvo Center for Brain Health, and many more organizations over the subsequent decades.

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Miriam (Mimi) Katz oral history interview, 2014 December 10. OH-02218. [Transcript]. Oral History Research Center, Special Collections and Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.


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AN INTERVIEW WITH MIRIAM (MIMI) KATZ An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach The Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas i ?Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Stefani Evans ii The recorded Interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iii PREFACE Everyone knows her as Mimi. She was born Miriam Green to immigrant parents in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1926. As a youngster she danced, excelled at school and enjoyed an abundance of sports. To pay for her higher education at Massachusetts School of Physiotherapy she worked at Raytheon Manufacturing. In 1957 she married George Katz who swept her away to their honeymoon in Las Vegas. It's a story that she loves to recall?they never left. She sent for her things and energetically settled in to her new hometown and marriage. Mimi found employment with the Clark County School District, began having children (three daughters), and making fast new friends. Many of these friends were from the founding days of Temple Beth Sholom, which roots her to the history of the local Jewish community. In addition, for a decade she worked in community relations for the Jewish Federation. She valued community activism and volunteered over the years for many organizations; such as Easter Seals, Jewish War Veterans, Parent Teachers Association and the Lou Ruvo Center for Brain Health, and many more organizations over the subsequent decades. iv TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Miriam (Mimi) Katz December 10, 2014 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface iv Born in Boston to immigrant Jewish parents; talks about childhood in Massachusetts; excelled at school and enjoyed athletics. Shares about her Jewish upbringing; mother became rabbi's secretary and kept a kosher home; experiencing anti-Semitism in early 1940s. Attends Massachusetts School of Physiotherapy and did an internship with Polio Foundation in Washington, D.C. and returned to Boston to work for a doctor 1 - 8 Talks about how she met her husband George Katz who was a door-to-door salesman; married in 1957 and honeymooned in Las Vegas and they did not return back east. Mentions first home, working at school department and beginning a family; adjustment to living in Las Vegas. Story about first time meeting Edythe and Lloyd Katz at a meeting of Jewish residents 8 - 11 Explains how the first synagogue began to form; George was on board of Temple Beth Sholom; Mimi worked for Jewish Federation in 1980s. Talks about becoming a convention coordinator at Sands; pleasure of working there; being flown back to Boston by her boss. Shares stories about Milton Prell; Bob Schmuck; lack of Hanukkah decorations on Strip 12 - 16 Talks about raising her children in Las Vegas; moving to a new home near Oakey and St. Louis streets; children attended John S. Park elementary School and eventually Las Vegas High School. Husband started a newspaper for Nellis Air Force base; then becomes a one of first local stockbrokers 17 - 19 Talks about becoming Jewish Federation of Las Vegas secretary/community relations contact when Jerry Countess was director; working with Edythe Katz to start Holocaust education program; friend Carolyn Stewart's involved with Holocaust library. Describes Holocaust conferences; doing early oral histories of survivors, including actor Robert Clary. Norm Kaufman became next director 20 - 24 Recalls taking position with Convention Center; joining League of Women Voters, Sixth Grade Centers and Westside; local Easter Seals volunteer. Shares how she values saving personal histories for her family and thoughts about raising children here; PTA. George passed away in 2000 and she remained active with Temple's Women's League, Brandeis program, Lou Ruvo volunteer, and classes at OLLI 25 - 36 v THE SOUTHERN NEVADA JEWISH COMMUNITY DIGITAL HERITAGE PROJECT at UNLV University Libraries Use Agreement Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: l&PrtZ^ATZA 77Vfi/HL+f- We, the above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded interview(s) initiated on / O 4 along with typed transcripts as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude the right of the interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. I understand that my interview will be made available to researchers and may be quoted from, published, distributed, placed on the Internet or broadcast in any medium that the Oral History Research Center and UNLV Libraries deem appropriate including future forms of electronic and digital media. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Signature of Narrator Date Signature of Interviewer Date Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, NV 89154-7010 702.895.2222 vi Today is December tenth, 2014. I am in Summerlin. In Sun City. With Mimi Katz. So I'm going to ask you to spell your name for the transcriber first for us. M-I-M-I is Mimi; K-A-T-Z. Mimi is a nickname, of course. And your given name was? Miriam. And how is that spelled? M-I-R-I-A-M. Let's start with what you know about your family heritage. Can you go back to your grandparents or your parents? Tell me about that. My father was born in Maine. His family lived there. I don't know originally where they were from. My mother's parents came from Russia through Ellis Island and when they got there, of course, their name was changed from what it was originally because nobody could spell it. What was it originally, do you know? It sounded something like Shapitrick, but I don't know. That day evidently they were giving out colors and their name became Green. So they became Esther and Jacob Green. Isn't that interesting how you get your last name, isn't it? From Ellis Island they went to Baltimore because evidently there was a cousin that had come over previously. And when that cousin arrived, evidently they had the same problem with the name and they were given the name of November. Really? That was their name, November. How many Novembers have you ever met? That's highly unusual. I know. But that was their name. My mother was actually born there in Baltimore. 1 So you were born where? I was born in Boston. So tell me how your parents got together. What do you know about that? I don't really know. When they went from Baltimore to Boston, and I never really found out why, my father at that time had come to Boston and he had a little florist shop. How my mother and father met, I never found out. That's too bad, isn't it? It's always one of those classic questions that kids love asking. I know. I'm sure my sisters and I talked about that, but I never really found out. So talk about growing up in the Boston area. What was that like? Tell me about your family, your sisters. I have two sisters. My older sister, she has died; she was two years older than I. My younger sister was nine years younger. My early years we lived with my mother's parents in a place called Mattapan. Was that a Jewish community? Yes, I would say so. Not now, but it was then. I remember I went to probably up to about the second or third grade there, maybe more. My grandfather in the early years used to love to take my sister and I walking to school. Oh, how nice. He was a very dear man as I remember. Maybe I was a little bit older, probably in the fourth grade by that time. I started taking dancing lessons, all kinds, tap, toe and acrobatic. We moved to Brighton and I wanted to continue dancing lessons and my mother didn't think that I...because I would have to take the streetcar and the bus and it would take me at least three-quarters of an hour to get like on the other side, she didn't think that I should go. I was a young girl. So that 2 was kind of the end of my dancing lessons. [Laughing] But I have a feeling you filled your time with other things. Oh, yes. But it was a nice area although before that we used to summer in a place called Winthrop. That was a beach area. I had an aunt and cousins that lived there. We used to summer there and that was when my mother actually became pregnant with my younger sister. Because the baby was pressing on her sciatic nerve, my mother was bedridden. So we had to stay there and started school, actually, but just for a couple of months. Then we moved back to Brighton. When you say you summered there, did you spend the entire summer there? Well, in Winthrop we did for a couple of years, anyway. When I was in the fourth grade at school, my teachers presented my mother with a?not a problem, but a question; they said they would like me to go into the fifth grade in the middle of the year, and so I did. Then, of course, I was promoted to the sixth grade after that. That was fine except that what happens is that when I went to junior high and high school I became one of the youngest in the class because I had just turned sixteen when I graduated. Oh, my, you were young. I went to a school called Girls Latin School, which is a college preparatory school, and that was in the city. You could go either from the seventh grade or enter from the ninth grade, but I went from the seventh grade on. Was that public or private, then? It was a public school. No matter where you lived in the city you could go. So my classmates were not necessarily from my neighborhood but from all over. It was a good school. I enjoyed it. Hard. One of the things they had at school was in their gym classes they had all kinds of 3 sports like basketball and softball and field hockey and I was part of all of that because I liked sports. That's great. So you were a real athlete, huh? Yes. And I liked it. Except I do remember one of my math teachers telling my mother, "If she would spend more time doing studies than in the gym, she would be fine." [Laughing] So were you Jewish in your family, in your religion? Was it more secular? Tell me about the Jewish part of your life at that time. I was one of the first in a confirmation class at the temple. The temple at that time was a one-story building. I remember when we kind of got confirmed, we all had to wear little white dresses. Anyway, it was fine. Then the temple finally got built as a big building in another location although near where we lived. I didn't attend it all the time, but naturally on the holidays we were there. My mother, as I say, eventually became secretary to the rabbi. Do you remember the name of that temple? Bnai Moshe. It's still there. Wow. It still has a thriving congregation and everything? I think so. I mean the area has changed, of course, but I think it does. He was quite a rabbi; he was more a politician than a rabbi. But he actually went out and got people to give him money to get that temple going. What was his name? That was Rabbi Shubow, Joseph Shubow. So did girls have bar mitzvahs then? No, no, not to my knowledge because that was never mentioned. After I got through confirmation class that was kind of the end of my specialized learning. There were lots of 4 Jewish people around there who did go to temple, but I can't remember going a lot, for instance, to Friday evening services or anything like that. However, at home my mother did keep a kosher home. Our house was always the center for people coming over to visit. So what was it like to keep a kosher home for her? Did she ever complain about it or feel challenged about it? We didn't know any different. Because you have to keep separate dishes and all of that. Yes. I do remember when Passover time came, it was a big deal changing all the dishes and getting the Passover dishes down from the shelf and washing everything. So, yes, I do remember that. But I didn't know whether it was kosher or not. How many people would come to a Seder? Oh, my goodness, we could have as many as twelve, fifteen. The relatives all came. My mother had an older sister who was a couple of years older than she, but she never really had too many people at her house. My mother was the one who always had the holidays?they always knew to go to Fanny's house. Fanny, I love that. Yes, so she was Fanny. I was brought up with knowing, of course, who I was. I didn't have, let's say, a big formal Jewish education, but we always knew who we were. Did you ever experience anti-Semitism that you can recall when you were younger? Yes, yes. At one time. Maybe I was in high school at the time and during the summer I would have jobs. One of the jobs I had was with a travel agency. We could not book people to go to places in Maine and New Hampshire because they would not accept Jewish people. In Maine and New Hampshire. Wow. I can't imagine what that feels like when someone 5 puts that restriction within the United States. But that was in the...What should I say? Let's see. That was in those early years, maybe the 1940s. So this is post-World War II or overlapping with World War II, probably. World War II? No. That was before because World War II...was in the forties, right? I graduated in '42. So it was before that. That puts it in historical context. And after I graduated?of course, this was during wartime?unfortunately, I couldn't go to college even though I wanted to. My parents..! didn't think that they could really afford it. And so I went to work at Raytheon Manufacturing, which was a defense plant, and I stayed there for a year, made some money and then went to physiotherapy school. You went to the Massachusetts School of Physiotherapy. That's right. What was your goal? Well, physiotherapy and lab technician. Well, originally I wanted to go to college to do physical education and I couldn't do that. When I was in high school, a senior in high school, after school I would work at the Beth Israel Hospital, which was not too far from where I was. I was working; I guess they called it a clerk on one of the floors. And I used to go around and visit the patients and work with the nurses and so forth. And I thought, gee, I'd like to be a nurse. Then after a while I said, "No." [Laughing] So then I went into physiotherapy. And did you practice as a physiotherapist? Yes. As a matter of fact, my internship from therapy school was with the Polio Foundation. A cousin of mine who also went to school with me in physiotherapy; the two of us had an 6 internship in Washington, D.C. Of course, that was during wartime. We found a place to live on Dupont Circle and they were all like three- or four-story buildings, attached. The place that we found...on each floor there must have been four or five rooms and each room had maybe three or four beds and you had a bed and a dresser, because most of the people that worked there were all military. My cousin and I were the only ones that would dress in nurse's uniform. I worked at a clinic there and then at one of the hospitals?I can't even remember the name of the hospital? with physiotherapy patients, doing the Sister Kenny method. I don't know what that is. That's at that time?and I don't even know if they still use it now?at that time what you did is you put hot packs on the patient's body to give them heat, deep heat, and that was her method at that time, which was very good, by the way. Were you dealing just solely with polio victims? In the hospital I dealt with polio patients. In the clinic we had cerebral palsy patients, muscular dystrophy patients. A lot of them were children. When you could see the slightest improvement, it was like having the whole world open to you. It was a wonderful feeling. I'll bet. So that was great. It was very interesting there because everybody was military, yes, and I was there for V-J Day. what was that like? Describe that. How do you describe it? Everybody was in the street hugging each other and yelling and happy. I've seen photographs of that. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in the center of that street. No. It was an amazing time. I loved working there. It was a very exciting place at that time. 7 What took you from there, from that job? Well, I came back to Boston and, oh, I got a job. I can't remember if this was first. I worked for a private doctor who happened to be hard of hearing. So I did all his telephoning work and helped him sometimes with patients. If he had patients who needed lab work, I did their lab work and the physiotherapy that had to be done. Very, very nice, very nice man. He was a neighborhood doctor. So I could walk to work all the time. I think after that then I went to work...oh, gosh, I worked at several places. I worked at the Boston Dispensary and I did a lot with medical records. In later years I also went to work at an infectious disease hospital and I worked for the medical director there who ultimately wrote a book, which I typed for him. At that time we didn't have computers. So a regular old-fashion typewriter. I typed. Many is the night I would stay at work typing his book for him. Wow. That's an accomplishment. Right, right. So that was very interesting. So how did you meet your husband? I had a date with a young fellow who I really didn't care for very much and I said, "How about having a double date? I have a girlfriend. And if you can bring a fellow, the four of us can go out." And so he did. It just so happened the other fellow became my husband. We went out and it was a home show. Every time...all these different displays and you have to write your name down if you want. So he kept saying to me, "Write your name down. You never know what kind of a prize you might get." Well, from that he got my name and then he called me and we started to date. Oh, wow. What was he doing? His name was? 8 George. He was at that time what you'd call a door-to-door salesman. He had his own business. He bought this business from a friend of his and they had a whole list of clients. They would go see the client and see what the client needed and then buy it for them and then bring it to their house. He worked up a very good business from that. What was he selling? Oh, whatever they want. There were clothes. There might have been appliances. Whatever they needed. I think mostly clothes. These are people who just paid like every week; on account they would pay every week and he would visit them and they would give him whatever they could pay that week. But it was a good business. There were lots of people doing that. That's interesting. So he was like a human store or catalog. He would move around. He didn't have a catalog... I remember when he bought this business from this friend, the other person who had it was working all kinds of hours. Well, that's not how my husband worked. He liked to work in the morning and he would get through like one or two o'clock and that was it. That's how he trained his customers that he would only go there in the morning and that was it. He built up a good business from that. So he was very efficient. I would say so. But when we came here? So you got married. You got married in 1957 in New York City. You also came to Las Vegas. But we came to Las Vegas as our honeymoon. Okay. So tell me about that. I didn't know we were going to stay. Did he know? 9 Yes. Well, he came here because he had been married and then he came out to Las Vegas for a divorce. While he was here, of course, he had to spend here a certain amount of time, so he got a job as a salesman. He had a little apartment. So he said, "Let's go back." And I said, "Okay." I didn't know that we would be staying here, but after about a month I remember calling my mother and saying, "Send the rest of my clothes." So you were very agreeable. But what did you think about Las Vegas in 1957? I found it very interesting. We lived down in North 13 th Street, which you wouldn't go to now, but we had an apartment there. And I used to walk from 13 th Street up Fremont Street to see what was going on. There were a few shops there. Then after a month I said, "How much can I do in a one-bedroom apartment?" So I got a job. I worked for the School Department in one of their offices. I was a little bit older when I got married; I was about thirty. Such an antique, right? Well, at that time. You were supposed to be married before you were thirty, right? Sure. We decided that we would like to have children. So I did become pregnant and I worked at the School Department until I was, I guess, in my ninth month. Then we rented a house so it would be bigger for us. Where was the house located? It was off of Oakey almost near Boulder Highway. I'd look out the kitchen window and there was nothing but sand and dirt. There was nothing. Was that hard to adjust to? I think I adjusted to it easier than my husband even though he lived here before I came out. When we were with friends he would always say, "Well, back East we had so-and-so." Until 10 somebody finally said to him, "Then why did you leave? Why didn't you go back?" After that he never said that again. We adjusted very well. But at that time?I'm referencing the Jewish community?the temple wasn't built. Temple Beth Sholom, even though it was the first one, was not built. We decided it was time to meet other people, to meet friends. One Friday night there was a group that was meeting in the basement of a church. When we went there, there must have been...I don't know if there were even fifty people. Of course, they saw George and I walk in and they knew that we were new people. The first couple that came over to us was Edythe and Lloyd Katz. We started talking to them and we found out that Edythe lived in Brookline where I lived. Of course, I didn't know her at that time. She went to a different school. We actually traced that we were like third cousins removed. There was, I think, an aunt of hers was married to an uncle of mine or something that I didn't know about. So every time Edythe and I were together if somebody said, "Oh, you two are related?" she would always say, "Through China," because that's where they originally came from. That part of the family came from Russia to China and then from China here. That's a great story. I love that. So who else was in that basement meeting? Who were some of the other Jewish leaders at that time? There were Jewish leaders, but, oh, I can't even remember. I would have to say they were the movers and the shakers at that time. I think that was a B'nai B'rith group because B'nai B'rith was the only one around at that time. And then when the temple was built, and I think that was the next year, we started to meet a lot of other young couples our age. I met Flora Mason at temple. As our kids grew they were all around the same ages. So the community is beginning to form. 11 The community started to form because there were a lot of young couples that I met at that time at the temple. And what was your involvement at the temple? Were you active in it? Was I active at the temple? Well, other than going to services, of course, and any kind of event that they had, I went. I was a member of the Sisterhood, but not active in the Sisterhood because, I think, later on I went to work, and so I didn't do too much with the Sisterhood. My husband eventually was on the (Temple) board and he was a lot more active in the temple. Then, of course, our girls went and they were bat mitzvahed. I know that there were changes as the community grew bigger. Oh, well, there were a lot of new temples that started, but I was always a member, yes. So one time you mentioned to me...Did you get involved with the Jewish Federation? Oh, at one time I worked for the Jewish Federation. This was during the 1980s. Before that I had worked in the hotels. I was convention coordinator. Let's start with that, then. I worked at the Sands Hotel, at the Sahara, and the Las Vegas Hilton as convention coordinator. What does a convention coordinator do? When conventions are brought into town, the hotels are given certain rooms depending on how big the convention is. They always have different activities at the hotel whether it's cocktail parties, meetings, et cetera, and so the convention coordinator has to arrange these meetings for them and these cocktail parties. So she's always in touch with whether it's their CEO or their manager or whoever is planning this conference for this group. So it was up to the convention coordinator to see that their rooms were available, their cocktail parties were planned, their meetings were planned. So you work with the catering department, you work with the front 12 desk, you work with the publicity department, with all of the other entities that go into servicing this particular convention. So that's what it was. It was great. So the era that you're doing the convention coordinating, who were the owners of the casino at that time? When I was at the Sands, Walter Kane was the entertainment director. Al Benedict. Jack Entratter, who was president of the Sands at one time, was also president of the temple. Why can't I remember some of the other names? That was long ago. That's okay because it will come back to you, too. I know that. What was the buzz? What was the vibe at that time? I really enjoyed it. It was hard work. I do remember when I took the job, I said to my boss at that time, I said, "I will give you a hundred percent of my attention working, but I can't stay later than five thirty tops because I have a family at home and I want to get back to the family and I don't want people calling me at home at night for business." And I said, "If that's okay with you, then I would like the job." And he said, "Okay." And that's how it worked; they didn't call me at night. Many times they could, but they didn't. The Sands was a nice place to work. Everybody was very nice. Of course, you never knew who was coming in as an entertainer. Wayne Newton was there a lot in the early years. Sam Butera, I think, was there; Dean Martin. You never knew if you walked into the Sands, Dean Martin could be dealing at a table. Oh, really? Poker. Yes. He loved to be there. He would deal, actually deal the cards? Yes, he would stay there. So you never knew who you would see. But it was a fun place to 13 work. It was hard work and if you could work under pressure, you were fine. And I found that I could work under pressure, so I had no problem. And I really enjoyed it. That's great. Do you have any remembrances of some really challenging or interesting stories that happened with conventions or individuals? Every once in a while when I talk to people who worked on the Strip, they have these little anecdotes that are just... Well, this isn't an anecdote, but this is something that happened. One morning I'm sitting at my desk working and my husband walked in. Now, he never came up to work. And so I wondered, why was he here? He came over and he said, "Let's go down and have coffee in the Garden Room." And I thought, hmm, something's up. So I said, "Okay." So we went down to coffee. And he came to tell me that my father had died. And he said, "Let's see if we can arrange for you to go back to Boston." So, of course, I went up and told my boss. I told him my father had died and I would like to take the time off to go back to Boston. He said, "Okay, just let me make a phone call." At that time you could get?what did they call them??these free comp flights [junkets]. They used to bring in all kinds of players. And so he called someone. And they used to be at the Dunes. He called his friend at the Dunes and he says, "On the next flight"?no?he said, "The next day I want you to put Mimi on there." And he got me this flight back to Boston at no charge and also arranged for a flight for me to come back. Oh, my. Who was the boss? That was Lou Bridge. He's not around now anymore. And I thought, that was very nice. All I asked him for was time o f f . And he arranged for that, which I thought was very nice. That is very nice. Yes, yes. And then after him I had Tom Brown was the director of sales, also a nice guy. So I 14 really had no problem with them there. I can't even remember why I left. But when I left I went to the Sahara. Who was running the Sahara at that time? Was that after Prell? Oh, yes. It was after?Milton Prell? Yes. Oh, talking about the Prells...when I first came here, George was a bridge player and he used to go out and play Bridge and he met this couple, very nice. This couple were friends with the Prells and they invited us to a show, a dinner show. So we were there with the Prells and this other couple that George met. At that time you could get dinner and a show probably for five dollars. But because we were the Prells, we didn't pay for anything. What was the show, do you remember? Oh, gosh, I don't remember. I always wondered what it would have been like to sit and watch the shows that people reminisce about now. Well, I don't even remember. But somewhere, somewhere I have a picture of sitting at that table with the Prells. We'll have to find those. Yes, I'll have to find it. I have an idea where it is, but I can't put my finger on it right now. But anyway, working at the Sands. My immediate boss was a gentleman by the name of Bob Schmuck. I remember when I first met him, he told me what his name was and I probably had the same reaction. And he said, "I'll never change it because people will never forget that name." How did you spell that? 15 S-C-H-M-U-C-K. Shmuck just the way? Like a shmuck. Exactly. He was the nicest guy. He was a great guy. His name didn't get changed at Ellis Island, did it? That I don't know. But he was a delightful man. That's great. He had a good sense of humor, obviously. He did. So that was fine. And then when I went to the Sahara, my immediate boss was a fellow by the name of Vern Schlect. He was very nice. Vern always liked to...when he had gentlemen come in that he discussed conventions with and so forth, Vern always liked to take them out for golf, and so I was always left doing his work. [Laughing] But he was a very nice man, too. So were there a lot of Jewish executives at that time? Were you aware of that? He wasn't Jewish. He wasn't Jewish, okay. It just sounded like he was. I don't even know if Bob Schmuck was Jewish. There were a lot of Jewish people connected with the hotels at a higher level, yes. But I don't think he was. And a couple of the other men that worked up there, I don't think they were Jewish, either. But that was never a problem. I never had that problem with the hotels. So during that time you didn't experience anti-Semitism or anything? No, no. I do remember once...Was this at the Sahara? Yes. And it was around this time, Christmastime. Everybody would put little decorations up. And I said, "Well, on my wall over here I'm going to put some Hanukkah