Transcript of interview with Ethel S. Hatch by P. Kohlman, November 24, 1975

UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch i An Interview with Ethel S. Hatch An Oral History Conducted by P. Kohlman Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch iv Abstract On November 24, 1975, collector P. Kohlman interviewed housewife, Ethel S. Hatch (born April 11th, 1914 in Valentine, Texas) in her home in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview covers the history of Las Vegas from 1939 to 1975. Mrs. Hatch also talks about ranching in Nevada, Rex Bell, development on the Strip, the first hotels, and early local shopping culture. She refers to Block Sixteen as Block Thirteen when discussing the Red Light District. The interview concludes with discussion surrounding tree-lined streets, the Helldorado Club, and Fremont Street. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 1 The following is an interview tape with Ms. Ethel S. Hatch, November 24th, 1975, at 3108 West Washington Avenue, Las Vegas, and the interviewer is Pat Coleman. Want me to start with the first question? Uh-huh. I forgotten what year I said. (Laughs) Nineteen thirty-nine. About 1939 is when we arrived, by train to Las Vegas, from, we moved here from Hico, Texas. We came here to ranch. My husband and his father had come ahead of us. My son and I and the dog came. Did you come by train? By train. By train, yes. And at that time, well, Las Vegas, was a small town and gambling was legal, then, of course. Mm-hmm. But everybody got acquainted with everyone else. And we knew all the leading people of the town. What was the population at that time? About thirty-eight hundred. And who were some of the leading citizens at that time, do you remember? Well, the Beckley’s were here and Jim Cashman. And it’s a long time to remember. But Lily—when you hear of families, the Stewart’s were here. The Stewart family was more or less from Alamo. The part of the family that we knew—the ranching end of the family. And the Lambs. The Lambs were family friends of long standing. The Halos had come to Nevada some—UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 2 eighteen to twenty years before, my husband had come to Nevada and worked for his uncle, (Unintelligible) who was ranching near hear. Uh-huh. And he was just a young man, about eighteen. And then, he went back to Texas, and we came out when we were— What kind of ranching was that? Like cattle ranching? Cattle ranching. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. What (unintelligible) did they have? Well, we had some three hundred and fifty head of cattle on the range that we had to move away (unintelligible) moving south. Well, where was that located now? That was located up, between the Stewart Ranch from Alamo and the—what is known as the atomic energy, all of that out in there. Mm-hmm. In fact, White Rock. And up in that part of the country is where we kept the cattle entire. Uh-huh. Well, what—what year did you have to move? I don’t even remember. Forty-five. Mm. About that. It was pretty isolated out there, wasn’t it? Very. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 3 Uh-huh. It was dangerous, and still is. Any time that you go into the Nevada Desert, you must know what you are doing. Mm. We used to travel with a horse. A truck with a horse, with our bedding and your clothes, water, and food; in case of an accident, or we had to wait with the horse to get out. And a source of food, and the shade of course, of a tarp or something. Oh yes. At the time that we came out in here, there was a man and his wife who were building a house at White Rock for us. And they had car trouble and they almost died, just going from White Rock, which was part of that area back in there, out to the highway to go to Beatty. Mm. It was almost a tragedy. They didn’t die but they were very, very ill. What was that about—a hundred miles from here? Mm. Yes. Uh-huh. A hundred miles, back then. How long did that take you to drive from like—your, the ranch. Like you’d leave Las Vegas to drive out there? It’d take about—we’d go to Indian Spring, and turn there, at Indian Spring and go down through the valley, and back up through the mountains that way. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 4 And there were water holes along and you found you could be out in a hundred and ten degree, twenty degree weather, way out there, and you’d think, well, how would anything live? Uh-huh. And there’d be little birds hopping around on the bushes. Mm-hmm. And when you got acquainted with the country, you were able to inquire within ten or twelve miles with water. With water. But you had to know where you were, in order to know where the water was. ’Cause probably a lot of the water was just seepage that’d keep birds going, nothing else. So. So that was the life, originally. The life in Las Vegas was quite a hard one. So it was pretty much an all-day trip to go from Las Vegas to your home? Yes. Well, we would stay. We spent Christmas up in there— Mm-hmm. When—the first Christmas that we were out ranching here. Mm-hmm. My son and I came out for Christmas and we all went up in there for Christmas. Mm-hmm. We had a Christmas tree and we made our own decorations for it. Oh. We didn’t bring any. And we decorated the tree and had Christmas at White Rock. How many people lived down the White Rock area? UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 5 No one, till we went there. (Laughs) Just your family. We had a man who stayed there all the time, an older man and he made friends with the birds and the rabbits, and he had—in fact, he had a pet rat that he— Oh my goodness! (Laughs) Had a little dugout. Uh-huh. You know what a dugout is? Uh-huh. He lived in a dugout there at White Rock and he had a pet mouse—rat. Big like a packrat. Mm-hmm. Which was interesting to me, because I’d never been out like that before that. My husband had had this kind of life but I hadn’t. How often did you get into Las Vegas, like to get supplies, and things like that? Well, we’d come in quite often, because we’re not living out there permanently. Uh-huh. And we would go either to Alamo or into Las Vegas. But we bought supplies here in Las Vegas. But we bought cattle where we trucked, we trucked the cattle in, from California. Uh-huh. But the—it was an interesting life to me and ranch life is still interesting. It’s—there’s no life like it, for, for anyone. But Las Vegas is another thing. (Laughs) (Laughs) Well, we like Las Vegas. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 6 Uh-huh. And we were at home, here in Las Vegas, and Pat went to school, the only school, it was Downtown. Mm-hmm. And graduated from the Las Vegas Elementary School and went to the only high school, which was Las Vegas High School. And we lived at the Overland Hotel for, oh, a couple of years. Uh-huh. Just had an apartment there at the back. It was a very small apartment. Uh-huh. And lived at the hotel when we were here in town, otherwise we were at Alamo or out at—(unintelligible). And while it was a hard life, I never did any of the things that ranch people do. I never did learn to milk cows, or— (Laughs) (Laughs) I didn’t even ride horseback. Oh. I didn’t like, too. (Laughs) (Laughs) But Las Vegas was so small and the town was so—even the streets were so hot and so many of the streets weren’t paved. Some—a few years before this we had been in this part of the country—and had contemplated buying property in Downtown, Las Vegas. Uh-huh. And we decided that we could do better by going back to Texas and ranching. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 7 So we went back. (Laughs) The property that we would have bought would have been just a little bit east of where the Cortez Hotel is now. The Cortez Hotel was not built, and everyone was saying, “Why are they building it way out there? That’s clear out of town!” (Laughs) Oh, my gosh, really? (Laughs) Yes. They did. (Laughs) All the time. But as we know the Cortez Hotel is directly Downtown, now. Where was the center of town at that time? Well, that was the—the center of town was the railroad station, which is the Plaza Hotel now. Uh-huh. The bus depot. (Unintelligible) Right. And then Fremont Street was about four blocks long. Was a dirt street? Down at about Fourth or Fifth Street, was as far as it went. Ah. No. It was paved at that time. But it had—was tree lined. Oh. Really? Mm-hmm. It had lots of trees all Downtown, and a lot of homes mixed in. And the—have you seen the Beckley home here on—? Uh-huh. About Fourth Street. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 8 Yes. Now they had houses all like that mixed in with the business places all along. Ah. And the little bank that was on the corner of First and Fremont was a very unique little spot, that’s the corner of the Mint Hotel now. Right. And I hated to see that go. It was one of the older places that went last. And of course Camel Real Estate was here and they had quite a nice little rise spot, by their house. And I imagine the Camel family probably at one time had lived in that—property. However, I do not know that. But I would think they did. ‘Cause they’ve been in real estate here for a number of years. And there were lots of people who had very well—meager housing. Uh-huh. Who were permanent people here, at the first time that I came to Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. Mr. Beckley, I can’t recall his first name—had the only ready-to-wear store Downtown. And by the way gave me the first pair of nylon hose I ever had. Ah! (Laughs) They were beautiful. If you never worn silk hose, they were very impractical. Mm-hmm. And then, rayon hose were very uncomfortable. (Laughs) (Laughs) Oh. But nylon was—it was glued to the woman’s legs from the time they went—came in. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 9 (Laughs) To now. I guess they always will be. He gave me my first pair of nylons. He was a very flattering and very charming gentleman. He really was. And Mrs. Beckley was just as charming a woman. However, I didn’t know her as well as I did him. Because he was Downtown. And James Cashman and his young, young Jim, we knew quite, quite well, and they were business people Downtown. Of course, we got acquainted with the people at the hotels, and at that—about this time was the time when Benny Binion first opened his first place here in Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. And they were some pretty—or quite I would say, quite savory characters that came around there. (Laughs) (Laughs) And one of the main restaurants Downtown at that time, was dragged across the street and in the Overland Hotel Building. And that was the Wings Restaurant. The Wing was here for years and years, and it had Chinese, as well, as American food. Mm-hmm. And then, there was another Chinese restaurant around the corner. But I don’t remember the name of it. Was there a pretty good assortment of places to eat? Or was it pretty limited? Mm. Yes. I remember when they put in Corey’s Restaurant why everyone said, “Oh, it has so much glass. You just—while you’re eating you could look out and see clear up Fremont Street.” (Laughs) (Laughs) Corey’s Restaurant was a very small restaurant in comparison to restaurants now. Uh-huh. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 10 And the glass that was not a whole lot of glass, either. (Laughs) But it was glassed at the front and part of the side. And the stores that came along, that were built, as things changed, the Beckley Corner, or the (unintelligible) or ready-to-wear and so worth had been was turned into the—into a gambling place. And slowly but surely, the street grew in gambling on out, like it is today. And sometimes I wonder why, and when you see the Showboat and how slowly it’s built, you wonder why that one side of town could build so very quickly and the other side have such a hard time, even with one hotel. Mm-hmm. And of course, when you say the Strip, it’s understandable that a lot of our traffic comes from that direction. So, I’ve always thought of the Las Vegas Strip as the place where you come in from California. Mm-hmm. But the hotels and the glamor of them, Mr. Hatch was with the Young Electric Sign Company. After my first husband died, I married Charles about three years later. And that was when Young Electric Sign came in. Uh-huh. And of course the—from the beginning of Fremont Street—not including the Plaza, that would be like the Las Vegas Club. Mm-hmm. Which was the—more or less the Sal Sagev Hotel, and the small gambling place downstairs in the Sal Sagev Hotel. And across the street would have been—there was a big drugstore. You UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 11 know, a chain drugstore, that was—that had everything you could think of and was such a pleasure to have something like that in town. (Laughs) (Laughs) And then, the small businesses along—along the streets going back on First, Second, Third Street. But one of my most shocking things was when my—the first time my first husband took me down on Block Thirteen. (Laughs) (Laughs) Oh. By car. (Laughs) (Laughs) Block Thirteen was the Red Light District in Las Vegas. And it was just off Fremont Street behind where the bank, where the bank was—back in there. And most of the property of that area was owned by colored people who had come to Las Vegas and bought in there. That was more or less Westside property at, early times. Early Las Vegas. But there were a lot of very, very nice families of colored people in Las Vegas at, you know, the town was small. These people worked for—the ranchmen and they worked for the stores and so forth. And you might call them, settlers, as well as we were. Mm-hmm. A different type of life, we had to there’s but both of us were settlers. Mm-hmm. The man and his son who worked at the—at the hotel where we lived, became very good friends of ours. Later he was blind. He became blind and his son had quite a bit of responsibility to take care of the family. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 12 And—but the last I heard of the boy, why, he was one of the—was a bellhop for one of the hotels, and his father had passed away. And the other people that we met were more or less people that we would trade with when we came to town. In the early part of our time here. The schools were small. But all the children went to school together, which was new, too. Mm-hmm. Because where I came from in West Texas, we didn’t go to school with the Mexican children, neither did we have any Colored people in our town. So when my son went to school with the Mexican children and the Colored children, why he got as well acquainted with them all and was mixed with ‘em, just like there was no difference. Uh-huh. And he still does. He mixes with people this way. I guess there’s a lot of new training, going to school and so forth. Yes. Would you say that the quality of the schools was pretty good at that time? Yes. Were they? Yes. They were. In fact, we came out here from Texas and my son had to take the—like the Third Grade over because he hadn’t had the schools there where he’d been in farm area in Texas were not up to—to the schools in Nevada. Right. Which was fine. (Laughs) He had a little slow start, so. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 13 He had a course an accident on his horse and broke his neck. Oh. So he had to be out of school a lot that year. So we moved out here, he was a little behind. But he was—he was not ready for the work that they were doing in that grade. So they put him back a year. Not put him back but retained him that year, which he didn’t mind at that time, at all. Hm. Made it easier for him. But the courthouse was set back on—on the property where the courthouse is now. And was a little building set in the middle of a bog. And had sidewalks walking from the corners up to the, and around the, when you went in, north, south, east, and west steps. Oh. And that’s the way the children went to school. I remember one time of going to school with (unintelligible) and it was in about the Fifth Grade, and he’d been home from there over to the hotel for lunch, and I was to go back there. And we were walking back and as we walked along we got out the corner and he looked around and said, “Hi Mary Jane.” She said, “Hi Pat.” And she walked up with us and they just fell into the step in front of me and just talking as hard as they could and I followed them all the way to school. (Laughs) (Laughs) And he went with—he went to school with Mary Jane till Mary Jane dropped out about the Tenth Grade. Mm-hmm. And she was one of his best acquaintances. They walked to school together. And—which was unusual—to me. It wasn’t to him. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 14 (Laughs) But the—the social things that went on and the school plays and the town in general was so different. It was more—more on the country side than it is now. Mm-hmm. And we were not a sophisticated people. And there were lots of people who came here for—to work. And there is lots of people who came here because of the gambling. And I’ve known of a lot of unhappiness due to the gambling. In the years that we’ve been here, none of us ever worked with the gambling industry. Then my son went to work as a dealer at the Desert Inn, and worked there for a number of years—still is there. Well, at the time you moved here, was gambling a big business or was it just part of the business here in town or—? Oh. It was a great deal of it. Yes. Mm. The economy depended a great deal on the— Did it? On the gambling. Because we had the railroad. But the railroads had already been built. Yes. And we had ranching. And of course the town was growing and as towns grow with the car industry picks up. Right. (Laughs) And all of the hotels and so forth. It grew like a normal town. Except that we had the un—normal thing of gambling going on all the time. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 15 But Las Vegas was—at one time was considered so far away. Well, it was a long ways, to any town. Rex Bell and his family lived on a ranch out of toward California down in—maybe somebody’s told you where Rex Bell ranched. I can’t think of the name of it. They were friends of ours. We visited in their home. And in Las Vegas we would see Rex and—what was her name? She’s call the It girl. Well, I’ll think about it. (Laughs) Anybody’d know but me. (Laughs) Anyway, we would see them occasionally. But one of the most sociable spots was to go to North Las Vegas, where the Silver Nugget is now. I guess it was right Downtown near a house right there. So that’s where we’d all go down there and then we’d have western music and have a few beers and so forth and dance Saturday night. (Laughs) Oh. The town was small. That’s where I remember seeing Rex Bell and his family, out there coming for dinner when we were there for dinner—and all socialize for a while. Hm. (Unintelligible) The people would come in, that house. You were telling me earlier about the first Helldorado. Well, the first Helldorado was, it was just a little—it was held, as well, as I remember it must have been down near, not too far from where Cashman Field was. Somewhere down in there. And it was just a corral with a shoot and they rode horseback and they wrote to (unintelligible) and it was just a little rodeo. But they called it the Helldorado and it was to be every year. Uh-huh. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 16 And we had a good time. It lasted a couple days. Did everyone dress up for it? Everyone—completely dressed. Bells, cowboy hats and boots and everything to match. (Laughs) And we had even then, the best dressed cowgirl and the best cowgirl and cowboy and so forth and it was—it was quite a day. We came to the second one from Saint George. Uh-huh. We were ranching (unintelligible) and oh, there were brown and Shirley Haywood came with us and Doctor A. W. and Doctor L. W. McGregor, and their wives. We and I can’t think who else. There were quite a few of us. We had our own bunch. Uh-huh. And—but it was just a small rodeo, just off of Fremont Street somewhere back in there, and everybody brought their own horses, and had a parade. Yes. And the usual school band and it was quite colorful. It was—it was a real rodeo. (Laughs) (Laughs) Was about—about all I can remember about it right at the present. We sat in bleachers out in the sun watching. And I don’t remember, it must have been summer. Because it was hot. It was hot weather. Well, I think it—I’m sure it was because they—I think the original Helldorado was held at the same time they had it every time, every year—around I think they call it Las Vegas birthday, around the 15th of May. Uh-huh. The reason I remember this is my son’s birthday is the 15th of May. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 17 Oh. So it coincided. But we came for that and then we were away for a few years and then we moved back to Las Vegas when my son was about eleven. (Unintelligible) He was (unintelligible) older. But the animals and so forth that you’d see in the desert near Las Vegas were strictly desert animals. Then you saw more trees and more animals then you could imagine. But you know, like many years ago. Because the desert did have—does have water and vegetation and so forth that the average person can’t see. Were the wild horses more plentiful, then? Yes. There were lots of wild horses. We saw wild horses and one time we went to a place up in those mountains and we always took our truck with supplies and so forth. And we went up to this spring just to check to see how much water the spring had before we put cattle up there. Uh-huh. And as we drove up why we could—and stopped, why, my husband says now, “They’re still there. There’s an apple tree, right up this place, where the water is. And there’s a big apple tree.” And there was. There was a huge apple tree with big oh, what kind of apple tree, these that don’t turn red, they’re yellow looking like and tastes kind of like a banana? Uh-huh. And the trees, the apples were ripe on that tree. Oh. And there were lots of little birds and they were little birds—I don’t know what kind but they weren’t afraid of us. They’d never been around people enough to be afraid. And they’d just hop around on everything and chirp. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 18 And they’d get on the table, where we’d eat, you know. Oh. Just, they weren’t—they weren’t wild because they were so far out they didn’t know what wild was. (Laughs) (Laughs) Which was interesting to us. And at that time, well, we’d hear—we always would—if we spent the night in the desert that way (unintelligible) we’d sleep in the truck, and we heard wildcats. And one thing, a wildcat or a cougar will do—he won’t come near. If you have a horse, the horse will break lose if there’s a wildcat or this way. Uh-huh. But they’ll stay quite a long distance from you. And they’ll—you’ll hear ‘em over at one side of the mountains, over here on, and then you won’t hear ‘em for a while, and they’ll be over on the other side. Other side. But they won’t come near, except under very unusual circumstances. Mm-hmm. And if they got too close, my husband would just get his gun out and shoot one and then they’d go back, you know. (Laughs) ‘Cause they’re curious like almost all animals are in that case. Especially in the dark at night. (Tape one ends) What you got written down? (Unintelligible) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 19 What kind of things were there here in town for like the children to do? Was there any time of entertainment for them? Well, when we first came to Las Vegas the entertainment for the children was mostly what they did at school. Uh-huh. And then later when Pat was a young boy, teenager around twelve or thirteen, he could hardly wait to get thirteen so he could go to the Wildcat Lair, have you heard of it? No. The Wildcat Lair, was a huge building that was put in, I believe by the government, I’m not sure. It might’ve been a building where the young people from the Base came originally. But it was turned into kind of a club for the young people, where they could go and they could play ping pong. Oh. And dance. They had beautiful dances. And I remember being, having a car and we’d go down and be a— Chaperone? Chaperone for the dance. And it was—they’d have a dance from eight to twelve or eight to eleven. Mm-hmm. Whatever time—whatever the curfew was. And this is where the children used—the little smaller children go up town in the evening and in the summer like that of, or when there was a dance going on, a Friday night dance. Uh-huh. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 20 And they’d more or less, just like in small towns, they kids, you support the big kids, you know. Peaking in the cars and things. (Laughs) (Laughs) All the things that go on in small towns, is the way Las Vegas was. And my son’s best friend was a John Young. John (Unintelligible) and Reni and Pat could hardly wait to get thirteen so they could go to the dance. (Laughs) They’d gone for a long time but they weren’t allowed in on Friday night. (Laughs) So when they finally got thirteen and could go to the dances, they were so thrilled. They thought they’d grown up so. I heard Pat say to Reni, “Did you have fun at the dance last night?” Reni said, “I sure did, I sure did dance (unintelligible).” And Pat says, “I danced till my feet were puffy.” (Laughs) (Laughs) Isn’t that funny? (Laughs) We still tell ‘em about that. (Laughs) Feet were puffy. (Laughs) (Laughs) Oh. But the town was small and the children at that time ran around on little scooters. Mm-hmm. And they were that age when they got big enough to ride a scooter, which was quite young. Because I would say, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, they were just going all over town on scooters. But the first time I came to Las Vegas, I came to the Sal Sagev Hotel. We just came down for a weekend, and we stayed at the Sal Sagev and the Lorenzi’s were friends of the Halite’s, and we UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 21 came out from Downtown out to Lorenzi Park. Right was a—a, you had a nightclub and kind of a resort out here. I’ve always wondered— Uh-huh. What all was out here—was there a—? And, it was just—until the put the park in, it was just like it was when he moved there. Because he was the one who improved it; improved the water, and he put the first big swimming pool into Las Vegas. And—that was running water, artesian water that ran through this huge pool— Alright. And was used otherwise. And then, this water, from Lorenzi Park ran down between here and the freeway, and on down through Westside and came out right at the railroad houses down in there someplace. Mm-hmm. And ran under—under the little bridges right Downtown. Oh. On its way to Vegas Wash. (Laughs) And the country out the other side of town, out in—in toward Lamb Boulevard, out in the, where it’s so flat. Mm-hmm. That’s where all that water went. And when we came to Las Vegas that was all just (unintelligible) back in there. Mm. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 22 And these—the road from—that turned off of Tonopah Highway to come over to Lorenzi Park was just a little jaggy lane. You know, coming over here, one, one car. And if you saw someone else coming, you waited till they came out and then you came in. Oh. And it was a nightclub and so forth out on these two lakes built in the middle of the two lakes. And they tore that down when they—the old building when they put the—made it into one (unintelligible). But we came out and this is with Mr. Lorenzi, and looked at it, and went down to the corrals and around the whole park with my son and my husband and I. And, then we went over to the park and rented a little boat and Pat and his daddy got in the little boat and went all over—all over the little, two little lakes. Uh-huh. You know, to entertain Pat. He was very small. And a few years later, Mr. Lorenzi offered this property to the city at a very meager price. And the city father’s decided not to buy Lorenzi Park because it was, afraid the children would want to ride their bicycles that far. (Laughs) Oh. (Laughs) That was the reason. Awe. That was the reason they gave him. And of course, come Downtown and in fact, about the only other store beside—right in town, the biggest store was Gilbert Market and that’s where, you know where the Gilbert store was on Bonanza? Yes. UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 23 Well, that was one of the biggest stores Downtown, too. And—I can’t think of their name—anyway, she worked with, for in the store for years and years and she’s, mom, up at Charleston Mountains, she owns a place up there. Uh-huh. What is their name, do you know? I can’t remember. I know who you’re talking about. He worked—he was, he owned a cleaning establishment right next to Cashman’s— Uh-huh. Garage. Down in there. And then, the Gilbert’s had the store. Old man Gilbert had the store and kind of a bank along with it, you know. A place to cash checks. And this sort of thing. Uh-huh. And— What, would you say for a small town that there was a pretty good variety of shopping? Sounds as if there was. Well, yes. According to—according to the size of the town that really was. Because the hotels, when they came in, for one thing as the first hotels had a lovely shopping place, you know, yes. In the ground floor of the lobby—off the lobby they had not shopped. And of course, the Ronzoni Store was here, and the Beckley. Was there any items that—were there any items that you had trouble getting, like in particular? Out in here? Uh-huh. (Unintelligible) Not that I remember. When I came here to shop, I had everything I needed. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 24 (Laughs) My necessities were few. Uh—huh. But Las Vegas was quite a dressy town. But never the kind of dressy that Reno may have. Mm-hmm. Reno—Reno was always more formal in their dress than Las Vegas. Las Vegas was really a big plants town. And Reno had a little society mixed in with theirs that Las Vegas did not have in the beginning. (Laughs) (Laughs) And maybe doesn’t have as much as Reno would even get. But it was—was an interesting, interesting thing to compare the two. Because Las Vegas and Reno—well, we are quite a ways apart. Uh-huh. But society in Las Vegas wasn’t—was nothing like society in Reno. (Laughs) (Laughs) And the homes were different and of course the climate is very different, too. Uh-huh. But ranchmen who lived in Nevada for a long time, you might say, knew each other well. And even if they did live so far—far apart and the people who came who came to Nevada to live loved Nevada. The people who came to Northern Nevada loved that and those in the south loved that. So. (Laughs) (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ethel S. Hatch 25 It’s where you—where you are that you get used to but the service stations and hardware stores and things like this came along as the town grew, and did have pretty, pretty well take up the shopping facilities as they were needed. And the main forms of entertainment were strictly the entertainment that we did for ourselves. Because women didn’t—didn’t used to go and gamble and all that stu