Transcript of interview with Susan Fine by Cecillia Boland, February 18, 1976

An Interview with Susan Fine An Oral History Conducted by Cecelia Bolan February 18, 1976 The Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas i ?Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Stefani Evans ii The recorded Interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iii Today's date is February 18th, 1976. It's 3:30 in the afternoon. The informant is Susan Fine, who lives at 545 Griffith, Las Vegas, Nevada. The collector is Cecelia Bolan, who lives at 5809 Churchill, Las Vegas. This interview is for Dr. Roske's history class; it's an oral interview project, Life of Las Vegas. Susan Fine, age thirty, was raised in Las Vegas. Susan, could you give us a brief idea of your family background? My parents were married during the war in Ireland. My father brought my mother to this country at the end of the war, 1945, where they moved to Springfield, Massachusetts where I was born while, he was waiting for release from the armed services. After his release, he went to New York for a couple of months where he was an attorney and decided he didn't like living in New York, so he would try his luck out west and drove out with a friend to California and stopped in Boulder City and liked it so much he decided to stay. Great. Do you have any brothers and sisters? I have two brothers and a sister that were all born in Las Vegas. Great. What was the educational system like in Las Vegas? Well, we didn't have very many schools. I went to North Ninth Street School, which is no longer in existence; I think it's just an office building. Fifth Street Grammar School was here at the time, which is no longer here. And there were two high schools that I remember, Las Vegas High and Western High. As far as how the system really was compared to anything else, I don't know. What was the college system like? Did they have a university here at that time? We had no university or college. Do you remember what some of your teachers were like and some of their names? I remember a teacher from North Ninth Street; her name was Mrs. Decrane; I think she's my first-grade teacher, a much older woman, as all my teachers were. I finally had a male teacher when I was in the seventh grade at John C. Fremont Junior High, but before that they had been much older women. 1 How large were the classes? It's hard to remember exactly. Probably fifteen, twenty at the most. You had said that two of the schools that you attended no longer exist. What's been built in that area now, do you know? I mean is it just industry, hotels or...? No. They're both residential areas. The first area is a residential area. There must be another school somewhere around there; I don't know the name of it. The second school is on Las Vegas Boulevard, which used to be Fifth Street, and it has become commercial around there now. Do you remember if you ever experienced any ethnical discrimination within your friends at school? No. At the time that I was going to school, early years, there was never any real mixing. You just went to the school in your neighborhood and depending where you lived there were or weren't minority children. In those particular schools that I went to, there weren't any. What were some of your special interests at school? Special interests? I don't know. I enjoyed school, nothing special on the side. I don't remember any special activities in school until I got into high school. When were you married? Were you married here in Las Vegas? What is your husband's occupation? Well, I was married in Las Vegas, 1968, and my husband's in real estate. We lived in New York five and a half years and then moved back here two years ago. How many children do you have? I have two children, five and three, and they were both born in New York. Looking at some of the old public services that were available within the community, do you think that they've changed much since your younger years, like the postal services? Do you feel that service has improved or there isn't much difference? 2 Well, there has to be a difference because of the difference in the population. There were so few people when we first moved here that everything was easier. You knew the postman; you knew the garage collectors; you knew everything. Now it's big business just like everything else. What were some of the first stores in the community that you can remember, like your mother taking you to the grocery store and stuff? Were they on a small scale or privately owned or were they the monopoly-type chain stores? They were all privately owned stores. We knew most of the owners of the stores, neighborhood stores. One of them that I remember was on Fifth Street; it was Park Market. It was a funny little market, Park Market, and we used to walk to it from our house. Another store is on the corner of...I think it's Eighth Street or Ninth Street and Fremont, which is now a furniture store; somewhere right in that neighborhood there was another market. We used to go to a few markets like that that were right in the center of what is now downtown. Is church activity an important part of your life? Yes, it is. We are Jewish and at the time it was a very small temple as I was growing up and it was a very close-knit group of people because it's such a small population of Jewish families. They would move in one by one. You would meet them there and then you would get friendly with the kids at school. It was not a big part. I mean our life certainly didn't center around it, but we did know all the families involved. Did you remember anything about like the Mormon area; I think they call it the Mormon Fort? I don't remember the Mormon Fort as far as any experience with it, but most of my friends in Las Vegas were, of course, Mormon and talked about it and I knew all about it just from contact with them. Was there a large percentage of Mormons within the community or Catholic? Yes, very large. Of my immediate friends I would have to say almost all of them are Mormon. Are you politically active within the community? Do you patronize any special party? 3 I do now. At the time I was growing up I wasn't interested at all. But I haven't gotten into any particular candidates in Las Vegas. I was just starting to get into it in New York and now I've moved out here and I have to start again. Have you ever had the opportunity in public to go to any kind of conventions? Has there ever been like a president toured here through candidacy? All the presidents at one time or another came through. I remember Kennedy came through. Johnson was here; I remember when he and his wife and daughters were here. I'm trying to think. I don't think I remember before that. All right. Do you remember anything about the Mercury Test Site in your younger years when they began to develop and have some of the tests where the bombs would kind of mushroom? Did this bother you any? We used to have drills at school where they would ring a bell. Instead of a fire drill, you would go out on the playground and lay down on the playground and put one hand over your eyes and the other over the back of your head. We used to have bomb drills, I guess they would call it; I don't know what it was. And then we used to after it was over watch the big mushroom go up. I remember that when it first started. I guess they've done away with that. What has really attracted people to this area especially it seems like there are a lot of tourists that come from L.A. to this area? Do you have any idea what really brings them here? Well, I'm sure that they feel like this is their big chance. If you have a few dollars, you're going to come here and make a few more. It gives people a little hope. As down as they get, they still come here. Do you think that the city council is encouraging other types of businesses to come into the community or is it just kind of discouraged by the city council? Well, at one time I don't think any so-called legitimate businesses wanted to come in because of our reputation as Sin City, but I think they've done a lot to change that. They still have a long 4 ways to go, but just by the corporations coming into the hotels has shown that it's not the worst place to be. I'm sure little by little more businesses will come in, big businesses. Because what would happen to the gaming business, for example, if somewhere another place in the future, say, for example, Los Angeles would have the opportunity to establish gaming there? Would this kind of close down the whole community and make it into a ghost town? Or do you feel this would never happen? It'll hurt it a little. I don't think it will hurt it as much as everybody thinks. I mean people are still going to come to Las Vegas for the glamour and the excitement and our facilities here. We're twenty years ahead of anybody else that wanted to try this. As long as we keep building and growing, they couldn't catch us right now. It seems from just a new comer to this community that the real estate business is just fantastic. I mean I just can't believe how quickly they sell the homes. They're sold months and months before they're even built. I'm sure very few communities in the nation experience this. Do you have any feelings as to why this is happening? Well, Las Vegas, even when we came here in 1946, housing was not the easiest. I remember stories from my parents saying that they used to read the papers to see who had moved or who had died and run over and pay off somebody to get a house. We moved to Las Vegas in an auto court where we stayed until we could find an apartment and that was in Boulder City. And then a house became available after somebody passed away and we took that on Fifth Street and we moved back in. But it was the same thing then. People are moving here so fast that it's just...I don't know. It is; it's incredible to me because I've watched it. The areas where you're having trouble finding a home now, nobody wanted. It was out of town; now it's the center. [Pause in recording] Also, what was the air facilities like as far as airplanes were concerned in this area? Well, in those days we didn't take and awful lot of airplane trips, but there was an airport. It was on the old highway that goes to Los Angeles. It's still there. It's now Hughes Terminal. It was a very tiny, little building, very western in appearance. It looked like you'd almost come up with your horse and hitch him up. It had hitching posts outside. I don't remember what airlines came 5 in; I think it was Bonanza Airlines. I'm sure they must have had one or two of the other major airlines in; I don't remember. We used to take the train all the time, though. That was when the Union Pacific Depot was where the Union Pacific Hotel is. When we went to Los Angeles, we took the train back and forth. How many days would it take you by railroad to go to California? Well, I'm trying to remember. I remember we always made a big trip out of it, an overnight. So if we had gone early in the morning, we probably could have been there by the end of the day. We would just go overnight and sleep on the train. Was there like a train coming through the community each day? What were the routes like? I don't remember the exact routes. I'm sure there were several coming through, though, as I recall. Many of my friends, their parents worked for the railroad; fathers were engineers. I'm sure the train must have come back and forth quite a bit because that was our big way of getting people into Las Vegas, trains. It was a long drive. As far as the highway system is concerned, were the roads gravel or were they paved? They were paved. To California you mean? Yeah. It was a two-lane highway all the way. That was before air-conditioning in cars. So if you took a trip, you usually planned to leave in the evening and stop in either Baker or Barstow, spend the night, and then drive early the next day. So it was like an overnight trip to go to Los Angeles. It was too hot to cross the desert in the daytime without air-conditioning. It was a slow drive; it was only two lanes, so it was hard to pass going through the mountains. It was a very long trip. Did the city ever have what one would consider a good means of bus transportation or was it that you needed to have your own car? 6 Bus transportation, they used to have used to service the area because you just didn't have to go that far. The area that I remember was small enough that you could get anywhere by taking the bus. When I was young and used to go on buses with my mother downtown that's where all the stores used to be. Diamonds, which was Ronzone's, was originally downtown and that was the place to shop. I think there's movie theaters there now. There were a couple of little other dress stores down there and little men's stores, but that was the only place that you went to shop. There was nothing else around. With the large expansion of the motels and hotels and the entertainment within the community, how do you feel this is going to affect you and your family, or do you feel it's an asset to the community? Well, having grown up here, I don't think it hurt me at all and I grew up with all the entertainment and bright lights. It certainly gave us another dimension to growing up in seeing these famous stars. On any given day you could go down the Strip and see the top talent in the world and they're all in Las Vegas. Even as a little girl, it was the same way. We always had the best talent. Our birthday parties...we used to be able to take one friend and go to see a show, a dinner show. It didn't cost that much. It was eight dollars, six, eight dollars at the time. They used to have shows like Spike Jones and Jerry Lewis, very kid oriented, as I remember, because we used to see a lot of shows. Did they have the special entertainment, like, for example, you went to high school? Was it easy to get a special star to come in to entertain? We really didn't bother with it. We were completely remote from the Strip and the entertainment. We had our high school dances like anybody else and hired a local band. We didn't pay any attention to the Strip. Being that you've lived in Las Vegas, what's your feeling about the hospital facilities; are there enough or are they all private? How many hospitals are in the community that you remember? I originally remember two, Southern Memorial, which is still here, and there was a little hospital on North Eighth or North Ninth; I don't remember the name of it that was right across the street 7 from where we lived and I remember being in there one time. It was a very tiny, little hospital. Then, of course, Sunrise came, which is private, a great big hospital. Then in the past two or three years, we've had Desert Springs and Valley open. So I'm sure there must be plenty of hospital facilities. Is it very difficult like to get a specialized physician or are there just a lot of general practitioners in the community? No. Everybody is specialized. And especially with our town growing so large, everybody's coming in, getting a huge influx of doctors and dentists, and you can just read who's passing the boards. They're coming from everywhere. They're flocking to Las Vegas. What were some of the unique advantages of being the daughter of the editor of the newspaper, the Sun newspaper? Well, of course, we were always involved in whatever was happening in the town. It was kind of very special position at the time. It still is a hometown-owned newspaper and it was then, the friendly publisher figure. The newspaper started in 1949 or '50 when my father was employed at the Flamingo Hotel, I think. He took over a plumbers' weekly?I think it was the plumbers? and started into a daily newspaper. I guess as kids we were a little more exposed than most of them. We always knew what was happening. We were around the newspaper. We read Teletypes. We got to meet all the important people that ever came to Las Vegas and most of them did. So I guess we had a few advantages. [Pause in recording] Is Boulder Dam just a recreational facility or does it serve any other purpose? Well, I wasn't here when they built it; we came here after they built it. But it supplied the power to Nevada, to Las Vegas, to California, to Arizona. I understand now that we don't get as much of our power from there as we were led to believe originally, but it does serve a purpose for power. It's also recreational. Always picnics and boating and all kinds of sports took place out there. It was a fun place to go when we were younger because there weren't a lot of places to go. 8 Do you have any comments related to any certain special talented folks that you knew that came to the community and were...? Well, some of the people that I remember that were really Mr. Las Vegas-type people...Wilbur Clark, who built the Desert Inn in around 1949 or '50, I guess that was. He was a very colorful character, always smiling, and he wore big diamond rings. I remember him. He was one of the nicest people I ever remembered. And then Rex Bell, who was our cowboy in residence, he had been a film star and he was living in Nevada and he ran for governor. He died during his campaign, so we never found out. But he was a very, very well-liked man and he probably could have made it. I remember another governor we had, Charlie Russell. I don't know where he is today. The hotels at that time were owned by a few men; it was never a corporation. So they were just like what you used to read about. They lived the parts that you used to read about, really exciting gambler-type men, although they were the nicest, dearest family men you'd ever want to meet? Jack Entratter, Milton Prell. They're all the people that started Las Vegas and made it what it is, who built the glamorous hotels, and they're not here for anybody to see now. How has Howard Hughes invested in the community? Is he kind of looked upon as a monopoly figure? what has he actually done? Well, when he came in they thought that this was the greatest thing that could happen. He was coming in. He was buying hotels. This was employment for everybody. They figured he'd expand and expand. It seemed like the greatest thing that could happen at the time and it got a little out of hand. He started buying up quite a few things, which he still owns. Nothing new has been built. He hasn't added any jobs to anything. The property he owns is still vacant. So it's up to each individual to decide whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing. He's the owner of the hotel... He has the Desert Inn, Frontier. He has all the property where the El Rancho Vegas was. The El Rancho Vegas used to be a very exciting hotel; that was one of our very first. Big stars, like Sophie Tucker and Joe E. Lewis used to play there. That hotel isn't there now, so you can't even imagine what it was like. But we used to spend a lot of time there by the pool. But he owns the 9 property that that was on and no telling how long that will remain vacant. Nothing's happened to that. He has property all over. I don't even know how to begin to describe where he has the property. Do you have any other comments or special things that you'd like to add about your past or do you feel like we've covered pretty well? Well, we have covered pretty much here. I really could never finish talking about Vegas. It's been great growing up here. I don't feel that the terrible image it had has hurt me or my friends in any way growing up here. I think all the people that you might read about in the books that started Las Vegas, the stories about them are just a little shaded. They also had families and they had another side to them. I don't know what else to tell you about it. It's hard to just pick out things. Okay. I think we'll close our interview. I want to thank you for giving me the time to get this data from you. [End of recorded interview] 10