Transcript of interview with Stephen La Thair Hawley by Donna Mattson, June 24, 1975

UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley i An Interview with Stephen La Thair Hawley An Oral History Conducted by Donna Mattson Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley iv Abstract On June 24, 1975, collector Donna Mattson interviewed native Nevadan mechanic, Stephen La Thair Hawley, (born October 15th, 1936, in Ely, Nevada) in his home in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview offers a historical overview of early Las Vegas including gambling and an in-depth discussion on local economic, environmental, and social changes. UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 1 Informant Stephen La Thair Hawley, date June 24th, 9:30 P.M. Place the Hawley’s home 5801 Churchill Avenue, Las Vegas. Collector Donna Mattson, 5304 Easy Place, Las Vegas. Project Local History Project, Eleven Oral Interview, Life of a Las Vegas Old Timer. La Thair were you born in Southern Nevada? No. I wasn’t. Where were you born? Ely, Nevada. When did you first come to Southern Nevada? In 1940, May. Why did your family move here? Due to work conditions, my father worked on the dam. Here at Boulder City? Yep. What did he do there? He painted, painted the dam. What year is that? 1940? Mm-hmm. How many times have you moved in Southern Nevada? Two times. Once when my parents moved from our original homestead to their house and then when I got married. Were you educated in Southern Nevada? Yes I was. At what schools? UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 2 Las Vegas Grammar School and Las Vegas High School. What was it like growing up here in Southern Nevada during those years? Was it starting of the late forties and fifties? Early forties, late forties in there. Oh yes. We had nothing but deserts and lots of water and beautiful valley, it was kept. What kind of occupations have you held, since living in Southern Nevada? Oh gas station attendant, mechanic, plumber, that’s about all. I worked at the Test Site as a plumber and pipefitter. Have you noticed any growth or changes in your career field as a plumber? Yes. We’ve—we’ve had a lot of changes. We’ve changed from the heavy cast iron pipe this plastic, which is quite an inferior product in many ways. And the quality of the homes, it’s dropped considerably, even though the inspections are higher, the quality of the home has changed quite a bit. One of the major reasons that the quality of the homes was not as good as they were is due to the fact that the people that are setting our standards today are people that are not qualified, such as our commissioners and things like this that don’t understand building trades at all. Are you a union member, La Thair? Yes. I’m a member of Local 525 Plumbers and Pipefitters. I have been for fifteen years. What kind of changes have you seen in the union? Oh mostly the fact the fact that we’ve upgraded ourselves and we—not only just in wages, which we’ve increased since 1940 to about two dollars and a quarter to a little over ten dollars an hour. We have a very nice new office building with an apprenticeship building that is far superior to any other apprenticeship building in the state, turning out very, very fine, qualified members. UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 3 We’ve in the last few years, we’ve gone from a forty hour week to a thirty-five hour week, which is helping the membership to work longer and also helping the unemployment situation where we don’t have near as many members out of work. We’ve taken in quite a few minority members, which some of them are proving their way, some aren’t doing too well. We also at the present time are considering taking in women plumbers, if they can cut the mustard. Were you married in Las Vegas? Yes. I was. When and where? July 11th, 1964, at the Christ Episcopal Church. Is the church activity important part of your life? No. It is not. Which church do you belong to by faith? Episcopalian Church. Where you ever active in politics? No. I’m not. Are you a registered voter? Yes. I’m a registered democrat. Okay. Were or are you a member of any social club or any other special interest group? Yes. I am. What, which parts are you a member of? I’m a member of the fraternity of the Desert Bighorn, I’m a Peewee coach, and a den leader, and a cub scout. I see. This fraternity of the Desert Bighorn, what is it, is that a hunting group? Or what? UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 4 Yes. It is. It’s an organization dedicated to preservation of the desert Bighorn sheep. Have you hunted Bighorn Sheep here in Southern Nevada? Yes. I’ve killed three myself and have taken eight or nine other people, guided the hunts and we were successful at it. Is, what area? Is that right around Las Vegas itself? Or in the mountain foothills here? Or just where? In the Clark County area, all of Southern Nevada, the lake, Sheep Mountain, Bird Springs, Mormon Mesa, the whole southern part of the state. What else have you hunted here—Nevada, Southern Nevada or Northern Nevada? Oh, all the birds and deer, elk, we find on Mount Charleston, and all small game. On your elk, you’ve told me in the past that you’ve shot one of the largest one ever shot up there at Mount Charleston or in the state of Nevada, can you elaborate on that? Yes. In 1964 I killed the largest animal that’s ever been killed in the state of Nevada. It’s in the Boon and Crocket Record Books. And it’s an elk that has nine on one side and eleven on another, which is a freak animal, but it—in its own right it’s an exceptional trophy. But there’s nothing that compares with it in the world today. I see. I read in a book somewhere that elk isn’t native of Nevada. Do you know where its native habitat is? Well, it’s not a native to Nevada. It never was. These were elk that were transplanted from the state of Washington up to the Mount Charleston range in 1935 and we have a herd of about three hundred up there at the present time, which is a huntable herd to control the herd so that the feed population and everything works out correctly, which the Fraternity of Desert Big Horn has instigated the laws as stating how old the sheep must be or how old the sheep must be which the UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 5 state has adopted and it has become a very good law and has stopped the killing of the young sheep, which has increased the herd grossly. I see. The state has always said that we only had a population of about five hundred total sheep in Southern Nevada. But since the fraternity has put out watering holes and many things to benefit the sheep this last year they have figured that we have a population of about three thousand sheep now. To reserve the herds of elk and sheep in the area the fishing game commission only allowed so many tags? Yes. On the sheep they allowed about fifty tags a year, which of the fifty they figure that only a third of these will be killed, which is about an average that we have always had in the past. And it’s a very hard animal to hunt. And most people if they are not physically in shape can’t put up with this type of a hunt. Plus the fact that there is such a small amount of animals and due to the seven year age limit on the sheep plus the hundred and forty-four points that Boon and Crocket score that they require before you can kill a sheep, they’re very hard to find at this point, so a lot of people give up this type of hunt. On the elk they allowed about fifteen tags a year. Sometimes in the Ely area they allot some and sometimes in the Mount Charleston area. It’s just according to how the hunt is going, the type of feed and the type of weather that the animals have had as to how they’re continuing on, whether the herd is a huntable population, as to how many tags they allow and to what area. Will you be going hunting this fall? I hope so because this is the fifth year for me. The last time that I drew a tag, which was five years ago, I guided two other people the same time, got both of them a sheep but I couldn’t find a UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 6 sheep at a quality that I was after and in three times that I have put in I’ve been successful enough to get a tag every time, which is beating the odds quite considerably and so this year I’m hoping to tear the odds all apart by getting my fourth tag, consecutively. Oh. The last time that I was hunting sheep like I was saying, I try to look for an exceptional sheep. There was a sheep on the mountain that two people have seen, that would top the world’s record sheep. I spent twenty-eight days backpacking by myself, did not find the animal and was not satisfied with anything that I was after. And due to the fact that I do believe in the preservation of the sheep and it is such a remarkable animal, I will not kill another one unless it is something far superior to what I have at the present time. And at the present time I have some very nice trophies. All of them are exceptional. None in the record books but we don’t get too many record book sheep in the Desert Big Horn type. Due to the fact that there is such a few, small amount. With this new type of law that the state has adopted, which was brought up by the Fraternity of the Desert Big Horn, a lot of people ask the question, what would happen, you know, if a guy should kill a six year old sheep, and the thing of it is, they make every one of the (unintelligible), they take a four hour indoctrination test showing all types of horns from all different angles, making the people know exactly what they’re supposed to be hunting for. There are horn of legal sheep, illegal sheep, questionable sheep, and they explain and they very thoroughly make the person understand, you do not shoot questionable or an illegal sheep. And this has grossly fix it now so that the sheep that do come in are good sheep. What are the features of a sheep that you would consider a good trophy candidate? Well, the features of a sheep that you would consider that way, of course, is the horns. This is the thing that all hunters are after, is the size of the horn is the symmetric of the horn, the quality of UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 7 the horn, plus the length. And of course, this requires age. And you can get a nice sheep in the six, seven year old class but a trophy animal normally runs from eleven to fourteen years of age. At fourteen years of age, they most all of them die, due to the fact that they get a type of a bone cancer in their head. Their teeth create this because they have a very bad tooth problem and if any of their teeth should deteriorate, the other tooth may continue to grow and may become three to four inches long and continue to grow right on out to their heads sometimes. And this is what you’re looking for of course, is the older animal with an exceptional head. But as far as the hunter goes, he has the horn which is a wonderful trophy to have mounted up. And then he has what we call the exceptional thing that he can carry on his person and show everybody. The Desert Big Horn sheep has a very long testicle sac and this can be made into a wonderful conversation piece as a tobacco pouch or a coin purse. It’s not accepted in all of society but it is a hell of a nice trophy for a hunter. Besides the latter, what kind of trophies do you have in your home? I have all the big game of the state of Nevada mounted in my home. Plus I have many of the small birds and ducks and a few of the hawks, which of course are, now are illegal, but at the time that I took them they were a legal animal to kill. And I have one very small dirt owl that, the only place in the world that it is happens to be on the sheep range and a had a woman that her husband was the controller of the sheep range, found it dead and mounted it up for me, which is a very exceptional trophy. The animal only stands about five inches high and it’s a full grown mature owl. But I have the antelope and deer and sheep, all of the animals that are native to the state of Nevada, mounted in my house. Other than the elk, which you have here in your living room, which is overwhelming. Is or was gambling an important recreational activity for you or your family? UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 8 Well, it’s not now, it—for myself in the past I was what you might call a gambling freak. I indulged with every nickel, dime, penny I could borrow or steal, and all up in the period of amount 1959 through about 1964, I went through—oh, it’s hard to say, including the earnings and everything else that I won, probably three, four hundred thousand dollars. I had one night playing twenty-one at the New Frontier Hotel, I won thirty thousand seven hundred dollars. And walked out of the building with it, then come ten o’clock the same morning after a nice steak breakfast, I give it all back to ‘em, trying to think that I could own the hotel, which then nearly materialized as probably many people realize I’m still plumbing instead of being a hotel owner. But oh, I guess the biggest time in my gambling career was one night at the (Unintelligible) Bar the Last Frontier. I just got out of the service, which was the big turning point of my gambling career ‘cause I never gambled until I got out of the service, and on this one night I attempted to get a friend off of the crap table because his wife said he couldn’t afford to be gambling, so as I stepped at the table trying to talk him out of it they talked me into start playing a little. Well, I didn’t have any money but I thought well a dollar or two and I can get him away so I laid my little dollar down at the twenty-one table and made a fabulous twenty-six passes, which they kept my dice and put on a nice little velvet pillow, and was at the Desert Inn for many years, but at the present time I don’t know what happened to the dice, they’ve taken them out of their now. But with my little twenty-six passes and with a fabulous twenty-one dollars, which I guess that’s probably a record, too, but that started me off, as to losing my brow and everything else, I did. Do you still get the urge to gamble? Oh, no, I don’t get the urge to gamble ‘cause I lock myself in the house. But whenever I get around I start hearing that money jingling stuff, that kinda drives me nuts, and I get a little shaky and a little sweaty and try and walk away from it the best I can. Since I got married I got other UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 9 obligations to extend to the hotel, so I just take and stay away from it, as long as I can stay sober and straight but when I’m not sober and straight we’re back in there throwing ‘em back at ‘em trying to make some chips now and then. Well, I got kind of nice little experience: one night I’m out to the Hacienda Hotel, I had a few drinks, you know, probably only one or two or twenty, I don’t remember, but it was quite early in the morning seven thirty, eight o’clock and I had this little dealer dealing cards to me and I put out two hundred dollars and he dealt me out a beautiful twenty, boy I had him going then. Then, the dirty little devil started laying them out, I wanted to split mine up and make some extra money so I doubled down, which I knew with his little two showing I had him going. So I put out another two hundred dollars and I’m gonna make some money, and he pulled a seven card 21 on me, which to this day I knew the dude was cheating because it just don’t happen that way. So I grabbed him by his little old, dig old hair and smashed his head right in the goddam table. And that was my last time at the Hacienda Hotel for gambling I’ll tell you for sure. Were you ushered out? Well, only one man on each arm, I wasn’t too big a guy, you know. (Laughs) Do you remember the visits of prominent people to the Las Vegas area? No. I don’t remember any prominent people coming to Las Vegas, too much. I know, you know, the Kennedy and the few other people came but I never went to see him, even though I admired the man greatly. But I’ve known an awful lot of the local people. Prominent people in the state. Rex Bell, Vale Pittman—a few of the old-timers, and I don’t pay much attention to the new type of politician too much, just as to how they run the present time. Do you have any recollections that this man has politicians where, did they do the state a lot of good? Or how do you feel about them? UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 10 Well, as far as for Rex Bell goes I knew him as a personal friend. He was a neighbor of ours. And I haven’t got anything good to say about Rex Bell. He was a politician alright. He was sugar and candy and every nice bit, on the outside, and the inside of him was a little hard to take, kind of make you want to throw up. I—he, well, I’ll just kind of put out Rex Bell in my book, he—he had a very nice wife, which he kept drunk out of her mind on Cock ‘N Bull Ginger Beer. What was her name? Clara Bow. She was a movie star. She was the person behind Rex Bell. She had the money, she had the class. Rex had a horse and he was an ass. That’s just about the way you can put it. And he kept her drunk and took her money and made himself a hell of a nice person in our state, as far as I’m concerned. You know, he made a lot of people happy because he had a lot of peoples, wallets and butts and the whole bit. But he—during the time that I knew Rex, I never knew of his wife to ever be sober and he had a girlfriend constantly, a little girl who lived down on well, today it’s—yes, it’s on (unintelligible) Street. He kept her for fifteen, twenty years that I know of. Nice, shiny, classy broad, I guess you’d call her. But Rex never done anything for anybody except to pass his name on down the line, do whatever he could do for himself. Had a couple of nice kids, one guy wiped out on dope, didn’t make it, and the other kid, he’s a pretty fine boy, trying to follow his dad’s name with the pad the wallet, pad the butt bit. But he’s a nice guy to talk to, like Rex was. Then of course you got good ole’ Val Pittman, alcoholic, pimp, prostitute, whatever you want to call him. He was bought off by the big copper company in Ely. Do anything that they told him to do. What was the name of that copper company, do you know? (Unintelligible) Copper Company. Yes, they’re—they’re still in business. Val, he didn’t make it—he got a little too old, couldn’t cut all the stuff. He was about ninety proof when he died I UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 11 think. But he—he was a good boy from Ely, and he made it big in the state by using Kenna Cato money to push him where he wanted to go. He wasn’t very well liked except in politics with his money. But he had some other relatives and stuff that went before him and after him. And the same kind of people, Kenna Cato and him all the way through, and he bought off enough of the ranchers and take pretty well control of the northern part of the state that way. Do you remember anything about the crash of Carole Lombard’s plane in 1942, even though you were quite young at the time? Oh yes, I was only about six but of course this town at that time was probably, ooh, I don’t know four thousand, five thousand people and that was a big thing, it kind of put us on the map in a lot of ways, we didn’t have any hotels or anything and it was the talk of the town. And of course over here on Potosi Mountain, where she crashed into, you could see it shining for oh, years and years away into the late fifties before the vandals and whatever it is carded most of the stuff off. But the plane shined for years and was still kind of a talking piece for ten, fifteen years afterwards. You were here in Nevada during World War Two, what do you remember of any of the activities that were going on at that time? Oh boy, that was a big time of course, down on Fremont Street, which was our main drag at that time, it was quite exciting, now on the front of the, which the Pioneer Club at that time was between First and Second Street. We had all the big pitchers. We had Hitler, Mussolini, we had Toe Joe, whoever that other guy was, we liked that. But we had those pitchers they were big pitchers and stuff and soon as we’d get one of them and (unintelligible) they had a big celebration, everybody would get drunk and everything else and get a big old black paint brush and paint a big X across him and it was quite a big celebration that we had (unintelligible) it was UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 12 nice. I remember when the war ended, I was selling papers for the Review Journal, which was on First Street, Skid Row Section, typical type of paper—and we took in the outback there, getting my papers out of circulation, take ‘em down to sell ‘em on Fremont Street when they come in with the big Extra that the war was over and earlier I just bought myself about thirty papers wasn’t worth a damn, so we ended up chucking them in the garbage waiting for the Extra to come out, but it was a pretty good deal then. Once in a life, the Review Journal gave ‘em to us for free to sell, ‘cause they were an Extra and everybody was damn glad that the war was over. What about blackouts, do you remember any blackouts during that time? No. We didn’t have any blackouts. We had low air raid practices and stuff but the blackouts, nobody really did a lot for. Once in a while they told us they had to—we had to pull our blinds and stuff like this but most of the people in this small town we didn’t do that thing but we did have our sirens go off and our little practices with the tin helmets and stuff like the First World War bit but it wasn’t anything like probably the major cities had, I don’t believe. So Las Vegas is really quite patriotic? Oh yes. Everybody was, in the Second World War, we didn’t have all these Jesus Freaks and Vietnam nuts and stuff like this. We was all a bunch of short haired nice people at that time. What about the dam? Were they taking any precautions for it during the war? Oh yes, during the war of course and for quite a few years afterwards, too, they had these torpedo nets and submarine nets, whatever you want to call them, in front of the dam and that’s where a mini sub or an individual sub, which you know, would be a one man vessel, torpedo thing, and the japs or somebody couldn’t come in and bomb the dam, because—‘course that was for strategic planning, (unintelligible) style, electricity for Southern California at that time. UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 13 Do you remember anything about the early above ground atomic tests? Oh yes, I’ve—I used to work at the Test Site when they first starting out a shipping and receiving clerk out there. And I got in on a lot of the big shots from the early fifties and mid-fifties and that. And oh, I seen the biggest plus also the last, above ground shots, they were very impressive and beautiful sight to see. ‘Course they’re devastating, whenever, you know, in the wrong hands and stuff, but I also in 1957, I went to (unintelligible) county in the (unintelligible) for the H-Bomb tests, which were of course much bigger than anything we had here in Nevada. And it was quite an experience to see it actually, the size of the bomb and stuff that they could use and what it would do, you know, in the respect of killing and (unintelligible) things of this sort. What year was that that you went to live (unintelligible) to watch the (unintelligible)? 1957. And who were you working for? Was that a government agency? Yes. Well, that was EG&G at the time. (Unintelligible) and Grier. ‘Kay. Could you describe exactly what it looked like and what it felt like to see a bomb test? Oh, well, with of course the above ground tests at the site they were strictly of the mushroom type, beautiful in color and a lot of dust and everything, but it was—you could actually, of course we was only within six, seven miles of the tests. You could see the ground shake and watch the shock waves coming across the ground after. And at that distance, I thought, you got to get a hold of something, ‘cause it flung your feet right out from under you in these shock waves. ‘Course then over in the islands, those over there at forty miles distance, would knock you off your feet. This was above ground tests, all of them, some on the island, some air drops, but UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 14 they—they were far superior in what damage they did but they were not quite as pretty as the above ground tower shots we used to have at the Test Site. Did Las Vegans object to this testing? Well, somebody’s ‘gonna object to anything, you know. They didn’t object to the money they were making off of it, so they kind of thought that part was great, the mushroom was pretty and the money was great. Course everybody’s ‘gonna bitch about having a plate knocked off their shelf or something, you know, or a window broke, but other than that—it was only the freaks that want to bitch about something, that’s ‘gonna bitch about anything I guess. So it did help Las Vegans economically in what providing more jobs? Oh yes. It’s helped out grossly. Providing more jobs. It’s—it’s still doing a good job even though they’re not—we haven’t got the fumes standards that we used to have but you can’t have everything in life, all the time, you know. What changes have you noticed in Southern Nevada since you first arrived, economically? Well, as far as economics go, of course the Test Site was I guess, one of our big things but then, when I first moved here, of course there wasn’t—there’s only I guess about one motel, I think it was six tents or something like that, it wasn’t too big. But oh, I’ve seen the El Rancho and the old Bingo, which is now at Sahara. In fact I’ve seen them all grow and build—helped build a lot of them, so it’s changed quite a lot. I’ve seen all these hotels, you know they—years ago it was controlled by the mobs, which in my estimation and many of the old timers and seems like everybody I seem to talk to really is much preferred the way the mobs run it. They—they run a good hotel. They treat you like a human being. Now that the corporation has taken hold. They’re running it all strictly to a business. They could care less about you. All they care about is spend your money we treat you nice while you’re spending and if you go broke and want a drink well UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 15 that’s just tough stuff because you don’t get it anymore. Used to be in the old days, the mob would buy you a bus ticket or something, you know, they don’t necessarily take you and break your fingers or crack your knees or something like that but—nowadays you just get a dirty look and you don’t even get a free drink. What changes have you noticed in our environment, over the years? Well, we had a gross amount of changes. In fact, one of them, very quick, like was just a couple a nights ago, was riding our dune buggy over the Fremont Expressway and you could smell the gas fumes and get your eyes burnt. So I guess we’re getting just about as much pollution as we can stand in this little valley, too. ‘Course then we got our water problem that—where we used to be on artesian water all flowing wells that we had here in the valley, we had, oh, just lots of them, just natural flowing bubbling and above the ground. We have none of this anymore, course we can’t with the amount of people, but we gotta take ‘em and get the lake water and then they load it now with chlorine where you can’t drink it or anything, half the valley has bought its own sparklers now. (Tape one ends) ‘Course then you got—well, I go out to the lake now, one good example is you just about, if you want to swim you got to (unintelligible) in the lake due to the pollution from our Las Vegas Sewage and stuff. Vegas Wash used to be a wonderful place to swim and fish for the local people but now, you don’t know whether you’re ‘gonna tread water or what the hell you’re ‘gonna be treading in. It’s kind of thick back in there. Granted, it stinks still, real bad, but you know, getting back to the natural artesian wells we used to have. We had a lot of them here in the valley, which kept the valley green, course that’s where we got our name the Meadows and stuff from, but the—take for instance, the old Las Vegas creek they’re trying to preserve now, that’s UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 16 just a name now. But when I was a kid they had—Las Vegas Creek was quite a creek. There was lots of hobos, and transients, everybody, they stopped underneath the trees. The creek was oh, anywhere from eight to twelve inches deep, three-foot-wide, all natural fresh bubbling water. Heck as a kid, I used to catch bass and trout and crawdads and why that was quite a nice thing you know, that was just like any kid in the mountains, you could just run over and play in the creek. We dug our holes and swam in it and stuff, cool water in the summer time. We had a lot of places around here where you can get frogs and we had a lot of game in the valley. Because we had the water and stuff to cover it. Anyplace that you wanted to stop; it was cool in them days but now of course it isn’t. It's always been quite hot here. Tell me what you did when you were young, about air-conditioning in your home? Well, when I was young, ‘course when I first moved here, we lived in a tent, like most people did here. But we built our first little shack and stuff like—we used to open all the windows, so that you could get some little bit of circulation, then you just took and hung gunnysacks over your window with a pail of water up there and it had holes in the bottom of the pail and so it would drain slowly and keep the gunnysack wet and just let the wind blow over he gunnysack. That was ‘course before we had swamp coolers, which come in the mid-forties, and boy that was quite a deal then we got our air and our water, it was really nice. But that (unintelligible) later on into the fifties and now we’ve got into refrigeration but we didn’t have the humidity in the old days that we have now. Now with all the pools and golf courses and that, we got lots of humidity and it’s required now just about that you’ve got to have refrigeration. Course now, I never switched to refrigeration till just, oh, about three years ago. The swamp cooler in the correct design type of house is—was sufficient till we come up with all the humidity we have today. UNLV University Libraries Stephen La Thair Hawley 17 Was this old fashion type of air-conditioning, the (unintelligible) was that effective? Well, when you haven’t got anything better it’s effective, you know, I mean, we couldn’t lay in the water all night long. And so, that was about it and of course, we were all (unintelligible) as to how to keep cool and that was the best thing that anybody’d come up with in the desert. Do you remember any natural events over the years such as floods, fires, forest fires, snow storms, or earthquakes? Anything in that realm? Oh well, let’s see, I had back in about, well, I guess at first in the fifties someplace, we had a big forest fire. Maybe it was in the early—late forties, I don’t remember. But we had a big forest fire up at Mount Charleston, took, I think