Transcript of interview with Robert Brown by Ian McLaughlin, February 23, 1981

UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown i An Interview with Robert Brown An Oral History Conducted by Ian McLaughlin Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2017 UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown iv Abstract Ian McLaughlin interviews Robert “Bob” Brown (birthdate unknown) at his home on February 23, 1981 about his experiences living in Las Vegas since 1955. Brown mentions that his background is in the food business, working for various hotels and restaurants in the city. Brown discusses some of the developments of the Las Vegas Strip, including the opening and closing of various casinos, as well as issues relating to the increasing crime rate, rise in air pollution, and growth in population in the city. Brown also mentions some of the entertainers from the Strip such as Wayne Newton and Frank Sinatra, and he describes the various recreational activities available to Las Vegans in and around the city. The interview concludes with Brown’s discussion about how means of transportation have evolved and how the city has grown since he moved to Las Vegas. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 1 I’m about to do a tape recording with my next door neighbor Bob Brown out here in Paradise Spa, Las Vegas, and here we are. Good evening. I am here at Bob Brown’s house, and this is up at Las Vegas Boulevard South, about 16 miles from the Hacienda. Bob is my next door neighbor, and he’s been living here since about 1955; so, I’ve chosen Bob to do the interview for me. And I’ve written down some questions that I think might be relevant for the survey, and I’d like to ask them. And this is Bob Brown now; I’d like to introduce him. Okay, Bob. Bob, my first question to you is, you got here, you said to me earlier, about 1955; Bob, could you possibly tell me, what was it like when you first got here and was Howard Hughes living here when you were here? No, Mac, Hughes was not living here. This was a town, (unintelligible) we had somewhere around 45,000 people. And I came here at that time in the foods business to service the hotels and restaurants. And Hughes didn’t come till, oh, eight or ten years later than that. But at that time, our town consisted almost entirely of visitors from Southern California. We had big business during the summer months when people were on vacation; the kids were out of school. But there was, exclusive of weekends and holidays, there was hardly any business whatsoever during the wintertime. Thank you, Bob. Actually, I was gonna ask you, how did you get started in what business that you’re in right now, and could you just tell me a little bit about the business that you are in right now? I’m in the wholesale food business. We sell to, strictly, the hotels and restaurants, and I came up here in 1955 feeling that the town was ready for growth and that it was just the place to be. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 2 What I was gonna ask you is, do you think that this town, Las Vegas, is gonna be a—what do you think it might possibly be like in 20 years, and what industries do you think that the young people would be best to get involved in, in this town? Well, I feel that we have a future of unlimited growth here. We have almost everything (unintelligible) climate. We have land. I can’t see anything that would restrict our growth. As far as the present time, I believe that anybody young that is looking toward a future, if they’re looking for it in this town, they should probably get into an allied line of, with gambling, which would either be hotel administration or something in the gambling line. What effects do you think this possible MX missile might have on the future of the city? I mean, someone like yourself who’s been here so long, do you think that it’s gonna affect the gaming business? Oh, I think all it can do is help our community; I feel that way about it. We have the necessary land where they can put it away from the congested cities, and I feel that it will be a tremendous boon to the state. One question I wanted to ask you here is, do you feel that since you’ve been here that the city planners, when you first came here back in ’55, did a good job about plotting for the growth of the city. I’ve heard rumors that the city, this town here in Las Vegas, is one of the southern land boom areas; do you think that Las Vegas did a good job on planning from what you can see? Mac, I feel that they did as good a job as anybody could’ve without a crystal ball. I don’t believe that anybody thought back 25 years ago that this town would be the population that it is today. And, all in all, with the way that we could spread out in all directions, there wasn’t too many ways that they could make a mistake. But I feel that they’ve done a pretty good job. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 3 Okay, Bob. This is a question that I’m sure other people, in the future, might be interested in. Like, for instance, when you first came here, the Strip, what is so-called the Strip right now, could you tell me what casinos consisted of, or what was the size of it? Or was Downtown a major portion of the Las Vegas gambling scene? Well, I think Downtown was more of an unequal basis with the Strip than they are today. But the first year that I came here was the year of the development of a majority of the hotels in which they would open, go broke—I think the Riviera opened that year, 1955, closed down, and then was reopened successfully. The Dunes opened their thereabouts, closed down, reopened successfully. The Royal Nevada closed down and never did get reopened; it got reopened as the Stardust. The Moulin Rouge on the west side of town was opened and closed; it was a miserable failure. The Strip was nothing like it is today, but it was much more than it had been just a few years previous to that because we had so many hotels opening. And they hadn’t really planned to well for that because they opened and would run it for a few months, and then close down for lack of funds. Speaking along those subjects, I have a quick question for you. Recently in the news, there’s been a lot about Frank Sinatra. And someone who’s been here like, repeating, about the time that you have been here, would you say that Frank Sinatra has helped a lot in the development and the growth of Las Vegas, and given it more or less the flair that it has today? Well, there’s no question that he’s helped it from an entertainment standpoint and that he’s given it the flair. I don’t believe that he’s really been involved too much in the growth of it, although I feel that he is probably better qualified than most to become a hotel executive and/or owner if that’s what his desires— UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 4 Okay, Bob, just changing the subjects a little bit: how do you feel the—this is a big question today—about the crime rate that we’ve been having here in Las Vegas? I’ve read recently that there’s been a lot of murders recently. Would you say that has to do with a lot of the growth in this town, or would you have to say it has to do with just the society of the gaming itself? I’m not too sure it has anything to do with the society of the gaming. There may be a few of them, but the growth would have something to do with it. But I believe that the one factor that we have here that most other cities don’t have, and that is our transient population. We got people coming through here that are either looking for a fast buck and don’t get it or come through here with a few fast dollars and leave without it. And I believe that it’s the transient population we have that provides Metro with most of their problems. And even with the rising crime rate, I feel that Metro for, oh, the last 10 or 15 years, back when it was city and also a sheriff’s department, I think they’ve done a reasonably good job in controlling it and running down those that are solvable. Thank you, Bob, that was a very good question there, ‘cause I wanted to find out—you answered another question I was gonna mention earlier about if the police department is doing a good job, and I think you’ve more or less answered that. Another recent problem that has been coming up lately in the news that I wanted to ask you about is the growing fear of high rise fires. Did you, when you first came here, find that there were many—I don’t know how big the casinos were in those days—but were there much problems with fires when you first came here? Well, there wasn’t really any problems with fires when I first came here. When I first came, most of the hotels were one-story buildings. I mean, they were rambling, they took over a lot of space. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 5 The Riviera at that time, when they opened it in ’55 was, I don’t know, five or six stories. And that was probably the largest hotel—the tallest hotel—that we had in town. And we didn’t have any problems with fires. As for the two tragic fires we’ve had recently, I feel, I do quite a bit of traveling, I stay in hotels in other cities, and I feel we’re probably in just as good a shape with our fire laws as anybody in any other state is. I feel that probably all states are going to have to change their laws and put quite a few more safety measures in all hotels throughout the country, but I don’t believe we have any bigger problems than anybody else does. Thank you, Bob. One thing I’ve noticed, I’ve only been here since December, but I have noticed a great deal of pollution. From where we’re living right now, we live about, like I said earlier, 16 miles past the Hacienda. And some days, even on a very clear day, you can notice a great deal of pollution in the air. I was just wondering, when you first arrived here, I assume this wasn’t too great a problem, but nowadays, I read on the news, and I hear on the news that there is—they have pollution index machines now—and when you first arrive here, was there any of this problem? No, I don’t believe anybody in the west really had that problem, exclusive, probably, of Los Angeles, and they always talked about their smog in Los Angeles. I believe that the pollution that you’re speaking of, Mac, is coming probably from the factories in Henderson because they are the closest to us. We’ve always had that problem, ever since I can remember. I think one of the reasons for the increased pollution in recent years has been the increase in tourism trade: more cars coming to town, more people living here driving more cars. If you noticed that, when we have just a little bit of wind, we don’t have much of a pollution problem. So, I don’t know they can do anything about it, ‘cause Henderson’s been with us for a long time. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 6 That was just another question I was also gonna ask you: when you first came here, I wanted to know if the Henderson—they call it the Henderson smog—has Henderson been here for quite a while, and what kind of factories do you know of that they deal with over there? Well, Henderson became a town of importance to the country during World War II; the Basic Magnesium plants are out there. And that was when they really got their starts. Henderson’s been there a long time before I was here. And, you know, it’s one of those things that, back in those days, nobody worried about pollution. And so, that’s the way they built the factories and the smokestacks, and I guess they just haven’t changed too much. But Henderson’s always been a factor in town in the area, as far as employment and everything else. Getting away a little bit from Las Vegas, you’ve probably, I assume, in your travels, have probably gone up to Reno quite a few times, and in the history course that we’re studying right now, we’re also studying the differences of climate and terrain of different areas. Can you tell me any major differences that you could tell me, maybe, between Las Vegas and Reno that you’ve encountered? Well, in years past, the Reno area—people did not really have to have the enthusiasm for growth that we have down here. They were more or less content to go along with what they had Downtown. Those that were in, they let them improve their hotels and casinos. Reno’s an entirely different situation. Reno has a definite winter and a definite summer. And during the wintertime, most of Reno’s visitors come from Northern California, either San Francisco, Sacramento area, or down from Oregon. And during the winter season, sometimes those roads are impassable. And they have always suffered during the winter months tourist-wise. But recently, with the addition of the MGM Grand and the Circus Circus up in Reno, it looks like UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 7 they’ve taken a different course, and they are getting more like we are down here in that they are looking forward to building. And I feel that they’ll be a good secondary city in Nevada in the very near future. Bob, just quickly here, I was gonna ask you, can you tell me some of the other areas besides Reno and Las Vegas that you have visited here, and speaking of Nevada, have you ever been to Ely or have you ever been to a few of these other towns, and what is it kind of like past, maybe, 30 or 40 miles outside of Las Vegas, and maybe what changes you have seen? Well, I don’t believe our smaller towns like Ely, Elko, Winnemucca—I don’t believe that they really changed that much. They’re farming towns, they’re cattle towns—you’re really back in the Old West when you get out of Reno and Las Vegas. Of course you have the copper mines up in Ely, but I think they’re closed right now. But most of it is just the farming and ranching and just like the Old West. Thank you, Bob. Maybe if you could just tell me a little bit—since I’ve been here, I’ve heard that a lot of people have trouble adjusting to the climate out here. I’m used to coming from Massachusetts where there is four different seasons. Would you find it, being here this long, do you miss any different kinda climates, or do you feel that you more or less adjusted to the mild winters and the hot summers? Well, having lived here 26 years, it’s (unintelligible) that I’ve adjusted a little bit. I still feel that the summers are just a little too warm, but I feel that the climate that we hold the rest of the year more than makes up for two or three months of extreme heat. It seems to be getting a little bit worse, but I believe it’s because our humidity is climbing with the growth of the city and the humidity rising all the time; it’s just a little tougher than the dry heat used to be here 26 years ago. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 8 What I was gonna ask you, Bob, is, one thing that I seemed to noticed a lot, and maybe I’m not quite used to it, but it seems like everywhere you go, even just outside of the Strip area, it seems there’s a tremendous amount of new condominiums being built, millions of picnic chickens and McDonald’s and Wendy’s and just a constant, constant building. Does this give you the intentions that, maybe in the next 20 years, this is gonna be an unbelievable amount of people here? Well, for many years, we lagged behind in your fast food chains, your stores that we’d have to travel to Los Angeles to buy—I’m talking about department stores—but I feel that what they’ve done is just tried, in a hurry, to catch up with the population boom that we’ve had, and they may have just gone buy it a little bit. But I feel that within the next 20 years that we’ll have over a million people in the Southern Nevada area. Do you feel that—they’re always talking about a water problem; I don’t know if there was a water problem when you first came here—I’m sure there probably wasn’t anything like it is today, but do you feel that sometime in the near future, we’re gonna have to do something about a better water system here in Las Vegas? I don’t feel that we ever really had, in the last 25 years, I don’t feel that we’ve had a water problem. I think that most of our problems are thinking 20, 25 years ahead of us. But I believe that we can probably arrange to get a more equitable amount of water out of Mead, or the Colorado River. I don’t feel that we’ll ever have a water problem here. I’m sure, Bob, since you’ve been here, the Hoover Dam has been a main importance to a lot of people as far as water supply. And has there been much changes in the area up around the Hoover Dam since you’ve been here? UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 9 No, hardly any at all. Hoover Dam was completed when I moved here. I believe, at that time, well at least it was to me, it was a much greater tourist attraction. I think the first two years I was here, I think I had to take friends there about every other week, so I got to know it pretty well. But I can’t notice any difference in the area. The lake has grown from a recreational standpoint. I think we have three or four more landings along with the marinas around the lake. But truthfully, I haven’t seen any change in it. Speaking of that, Bob, I was gonna ask you, you’ve been here for 25 years; what do you like to do for forms of recreation, and are the opportunities for people with different hobbies limited here in Las Vegas, or do you feel that they, instead of just gambling, do you think that there are a lot of other things that people can do, since you’ve been here? Well, I feel that the Las Vegas area is one of the greatest recreational areas in the country. We have Lake Mead, which I feel is probably, and I think that the fishermen guys will probably tell you, it’s one of the best or at least one of the better bass fishing lakes in the country. Colorado River has a different type of fishing—trout—we have mountains within 45 minutes of Las Vegas where, wintertime, Lord willing, they can ski. We have great golfing in the area. I really feel that this is one of the greatest recreational areas in the country. Speaking a little bit about celebrities, Bob, I was gonna ask you, since you have been here, who, in your mind, would you probably say has had the, maybe, greatest effect of an entertainer here in Las Vegas since you’ve been here? Would you like to select maybe one or two people that you feel that have provided the Las Vegas image more than anyone? Well, I believe you’d have to list Sinatra as one of the top two, particularly back in the old days when he and Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. used to perform together. But I would guess the greatest crowd pleaser that we’ve ever had, or at least crowd drawer into the casino was Elvis UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 10 Presley—not too much on the entertainment world—but I would have to say that it would be probably Elvis and Frank Sinatra. How do you feel that—how long has Wayne Newton been a big crowd pleaser here in Las Vegas? Do you know exactly when, maybe, he came around? What was his circa? Yes, I should probably not have left Newton out of that. I remember Wayne when he first started; he started Downtown at the Fremont Hotel. They had an entertainment room down there that was probably the best for all of Downtown. And when Wayne first started down there, he was only allowed to go on the stage and in the coffee shop. He was just about 16 or 17, he was a duet with his brother. And he’s probably been one of the greatest success stories that has come along in this town, and now he’s half owner of the Aladdin and has put his money that he made in this town—he’s put it back into the town. I shouldn’t have left Newton off that. Thank you, Bob. One big thing I’ve noticed since I have been here, which has only been, like I mentioned, recently, that there seems to be a tremendous amount of status here. It seems like everybody seems to try to have to keep up with the Joneses around here. Would you say that holds true with this town than any other town that you’ve seen in a while, that it seems like everybody seems to have to have the best shirts and everything, and just a very materialistic town, or would you say that I’m wrong on trying to make a statement of that sort? Mac, I feel you’re wrong on that statement. We’ve really been a cow town for an awful lotta years. It may be true lately; I think people just bought—maybe a little freer in the way that we spend our money and with a large percentage of the workers, dealers, waitresses—if they leave work tonight with $30 and they go out and spend it on a shirt tomorrow, they figure they’re gonna make that same $30 back the next night anyway. But we’ve really been kind of a cowboy UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 11 town for a long time. And I don’t know of—at least I don’t run with the crowd that would have to keep up with anybody. Speaking on that same subject, Bob, this great craze that we’ve had in country western music lately—would you say that the country music craze has always been here in Las Vegas, or is it something like the urban cowboy, what I’m talking about, just recently affected Las Vegas, or are people more cowboy-ish here like you were mentioning and as friendly in other towns that you’ve been in? Oh yes, I feel that Las Vegas has been a country western town for all of the years that I’ve lived here. In fact, if anything, we have probably gone backwards from the way that we used to be. Back in the 45,000 population, I think probably 44,000 of them were cowboys. So you woulda had a much higher percentage in those days. Thank you, Bob. That is a very interesting question ‘cause I’ve just noticed a lotta cowboy hats here and I wanted to get your personal opinion on how the people have always been. Speaking on the subject of changes, would you agree that Las Vegas is going to have one of the largest in population moves that you’ve ever seen in a town before? I know we dwelled on that subject a little earlier, but I just want to clear that up one more time on ending this side of the tape? Well, I feel that we are; I think that we’re just starting. We’re really just starting into our growth, particularly if the MX goes through. With everything else, I have to feel that we’re just on the threshold of really starting to become a large metropolis. Thank you, Bob. Well, we’re gonna be ending this side of the tape here. And I’ve got a few more questions to ask Bob in a minute. So, I’m gonna shut this tape off here, and we’re gonna turn to the other side. UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 12 [Side one ends] Here we are again. Like I mentioned before, I’m interviewing Bob, and we’re on side two. Bob, I’d like to just ask you a few more questions, and then we can wrap this side of the tape up here. One subject that I’d like to ask you that I think is very important that we didn’t cover on the other side of the tape, and that was on the subject of transportation. If you could just tell me a little bit what transportation situation was like when you first arrived here and how it has possibly changed to 1981? Could you just tell me a little bit about that please? I believe that the biggest change occurred when the four-lane highway was put in to Los Angeles. For about the first ten years that I was in Vegas, the road from here to Los Angeles was strictly a two-lane highway. And it took you at least twice as long to get here. I think that we have gone along with the rest of the country in air transportation. Our present terminal today is at least ten times as big as the original air terminal was. Trains—now that we have the Amtrak back twice a day—we had trains coming through here then. Buses were the same as today except the time situation also pertained to them as far as the highways were concerned. But we’ve progressed at least as much as all the rest of the country and probably a little bit more. Also, on the transportation, Bob, I hear a continuous amount of complaints about people around town about how the buses are running terrible. They’re always complaining that the buses never seem to run on time. When you first arrived here, were there more or less buses when you first got here? I believe we now have a much better bus system than we had when I first arrived. I’ve noticed quite a few new buses on the street recently. I really don’t know anything about the schedules, UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 13 but when I first came, we had very few buses, and they strictly covered from Downtown to the Strip. Now I understand they do go through residential neighborhoods. As you were mentioning before about the train system—that was an interesting point you mentioned that, I know that Amtrak has recently been put back in schedule, but was the original train station located where it is now? Almost. It was located directly on the spot where the Union Plaza Hotel is today. It was much bigger in those days. They ran a few more trains through here, but not with the regularity of the Amtrak. Then they closed the station down while they were building the Union Plaza and then put it in alongside and right behind the Union Plaza. And just speaking along the same subjects, on the airport, has McCarran always been located where it is now, or was it located in a different spot? The airstrips were always located where they are. The terminal when I first came to town as on the west side of all of the runways where now, it’s called Hughes Terminal now; it’s strictly a private plane charter plane. The present terminal was moved east across all of the landing strips, and the entrance now is off Paradise Road instead of Las Vegas Boulevard South. Thank you very much, Bob. I think that might cover the transportation questions I had to you. Just changing the subject, I would just want to mention to you, about, for instance, the sports, like, for instance, the college university, the Rebels, they seem to be quite a good basketball team; when you first arrived here, I don’t know if they had any college events that were played on major college teams, but would you say that it has affected Las Vegas in any way? When I first arrived, we had very good basketball teams—no football teams. The University of Nevada in Reno was actually the big power as far as the state went. But our basketball teams UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 14 played well and had very good records but had a lower level than they are playing today. I believe that our Rebel basketball team has brought the state and the city a lot of good publicity. You can go into an air terminal in San Diego like I was last summer, and of the bellhops was asking me what kind of a team we were gonna have this year. They’re just wondering whether we’re gonna have as good a team or not. So, we’ve received a lot of good publicity from our basketball team. Speaking on, more or less, the same subject, Bob, I know that you’ve been involved in a lot of—you’ve raised your own racing horses in the past and you do know quite a bit about the racing industry. And mostly here in Las Vegas, we have mostly gaming industries. Now that they’ve put the new dog track in, which I know is now your complete subject, but do you feel that this dog track is gonna bring more dog tracks into Las Vegas, or do you think that it’s gonna help it in quite a way, or do you think there’ll be more or less of them coming about in the future. I notice they’re already building one just outside of Reno; I don’t believe that we could support two dog tracks in Las Vegas, although they are supporting this one very well. And within a year’s time, they are going to have to have a sum amount of days of horse racing, which will be at a much lower classification on the west coast. And we’ll be popular; we have an awful lot of horsemen here, but the dogs will be much more profitable. But I can’t see them building anything more than what they have. Thank you, Bob. I believe I’m going to ask you one more final question here, and then we’ll wrap up this interview. I think everything we’ve tried to discuss and cover has been very interesting and hopefully it’ll help any future students that would like to listen to this tape possibly in 20 years. I think we’ve covered quite a few subjects from the past and the UNLV University Libraries Robert Brown 15 present. And one final question I would just like to ask you is that, are you happy the way Las Vegas has changed and grown and prospered since you first arrived here, and what hopes do you believe there are in the future of Las Vegas? I feel that the town has prospered as much or more than any other section of the country. Our gambling has become—has made other people very envious of us, and as you know, there’s a lot of states that are trying to legalize gambling now. But the town has developed in all ways—not just in gambling, although the hotels play a big part of it. But I can see nothing, I think, as I said earlier in the interview, I can’t see anything that can keep us from continuing growing and having just a real prosperous town. Bob, I’d just like to thank you again. And I think your interview has been very helpful, and hopefully, like I mentioned earlier, that someday, maybe in 20 or 25 years, somebody might be able to play this tape back and maybe gain a little insight on everything that you’ve mentioned before. Again, Bob, I’d like to very much thank you, and I think it’s been an interesting interview, and I know I’ve learned a lot. And I hope that somebody else who might play this tape might learn quite a bit more. Again, Bob, thank you very much, and this is Ian McLaughlin, and I’d like to sign off and thank you for taking your time, and good luck to any future students, and I hope they will possibly learn something from this interview. Thank you.