Irma I. Varela interview, March 5, 2019: transcript

i AN INTERVIEW WITH IRMA VARELA An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2018 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcribers: Kristin Hicks, Maribel Estrada Calderón, Nathalie Martinez, Rodrigo Vazquez, Elsa Lopez Editors and Project Assistants: Laurents Bañuelos-Benitez, Maribel Estrada Calderón, Monserrath Hernández, Elsa Lopez, Nathalie Martinez, Marcela Rodriquez-Campo, Rodrigo Vazquez iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a National Endowment for Humanities (NEH) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Irma Varela smiles broadly as she describes herself as a Mexican-born American. Born in Zacatecas, Mexico she is the fourth of seven children. Her father embodied hard and deeply religious Catholic roots. He worked as a bracero and died at a young age in 1982. Her mother was the parent who promoted education and later moved to California in 1986. Irma’s thirst for culture and education is elegant and insatiable—no matter what life obstacles come her way. As a young woman in Mexico, she entered Universidad del Valle de Atemajac in Guadalajara and received degree in business administration and tourism. She also became a young single mother prepared for a fresh start and joined her mother and brothers in California. Love found its way into her life and she married a man living in Las Vegas. The move to Nevada proved to be simultaneously perfect and imperfect. She became a divorced mother with three children, eager to embrace a career path and adjust to the opportunities that presented themselves, and determined to earn a master’s degree in International Relations. At the time of this oral history interview, Irma is the Supervisor at the Winchester Dondero Community Center. In this oral history, Irma weaves together her life story and the cultural discoveries of her Mexican roots. Since the 1990s, in the everchanging landscape of Las Vegas, Irma has perpetually and passionately brought multi-cultural learning to the forefront. She is synonymous with a multitude of local culture organizations and events: Mexico Vivo Dancing Company, Dia de los Muertos / Day of the Dead celebrations, International Food and Folklife Festival, and among others. Each time she warmly invites people to come together and to share their heritages. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Irma Varela December 4, 2018 & March 5, 2019 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface…………………………………………………………………………………………..iv Session 1 Discusses identity labels and how she identifies as “Mexican-born American; born in Zacatecas, deep family roots in that area of Mexico; lived there until 1979, when she moved to the United States; attended the university in Guadalajara. Father was a bracero and passed away at a young age in 1982; mother immigrated to the US in 1996. Parents influences on her interest in learning and religious foundation. Mother a seamstress and an investor in residential properties; attended Universidad del Valle Atemajac (UNIVA); became a young single mom and worked hotels in Cabo San Lucas; returned to Guadalajara……………………….….1 – 5 Talks about visiting her mother who had moved to California; decision to move to US with Luis in 1988 and starts a fresh life. Moves to Las Vegas after marrying and never has left; describes her first remembrances of the city and going to work for a travel agency because she was experienced and had a degree. Luis attends school unable to speak English and being required to speak only English by his stepfather; challenges during this period of her life. Outlines her career steps, friendship with Gabriella, and becoming active in Mexico Vivo Dance Company under the direction of Ixela Gutierrez at the Arturo Cambiero Center parking lot….. 6 – 9 Shares about the Nevada Arts Council, Folk Arts Program and Community Roots; mentions Andrea Graham, Eliza Buck, Christina Barr, Rebecca Snetselaar, and Patricia Atkinson; learns to interview and preserve Hispanic cultures in 1997; in 2000 a Clark County grant-funded position comes available, is hired part-time and works with Eleanor Levy. Distance program with Antioch University and Eliza encourages her to do master’s degree in Intercultural Relations; at UNLV she assists with a Berkeley University study of Spanish speaking housekeepers in Las Vegas and what she learns from that experience………………9 – 13 Recalls when Patrick Gaffey (Cultural Supervisor at Winchester Cultural Center) recruited her as a part-time staff member suited to the cultural interests; began working full time in 2003; 2011 left for Cambridge and then returned five years later. Finally in October 2018, she becomes Program Supervisor for the Winchester Center. Explains the Folk Arts Program there, including starting the Day of the Dead event in 2003, which she explains further. Explains how Get vi Outdoors Nevada works with on that. Also started the World Vibrations, a music project. Mentions Kay Tuma, Oscar Carrescia. Critiques the impact of the movie Coco’s on the Day of the Dead celebration; Springs Preserves’ celebration; her mission to rescue the spirit of the holiday. Calavera poetry contest; Jorge and Alicia Galindo have been judges…………14 – 22 Talks about ‘cultural luggage’ and raising children, each who she sees as artistic; feels area of education could have been improved. Son Luis earned associate’s degree, is with Elevator Union and also a creative artist; his public art includes “Radial Symmetry” on Main Street and “Organic Project” at the Government Center, among others. Daughter Maria is musical; son Mark is studying engineering.… 22 – 27 Discusses the growth of the Latinx population locally, her interview of Jaime Martinez, the owner of La Bonita; preservation f Mexican culture that she does at home, for example in cooking; Christmas traditions; Mother’s Day. Recalls a time when she was traveling on a train and didn’t have a green card; current situation regarding documentation and borders; her decision to become an American citizen in 2001, shortly after September 11th. Session 2 Talks about the many celebrations in Zacatecas, where she grew up; La Morisma, Danzantes, and Matachines, a style of dancing, and Virgen del Patracinio, patron of Zacatecas; importance of culture in Mexico. Describes her upbringing as middle class; recalls when she first moved to the US after getting a degree in business administration and tourism in Guadalajara, some of the traditions of that area of Mexico; indigenous people of the mountains, history with the Spanish conquerors and her roots, her parents…………………………………………………….34 – 39 Details why she migrated to the US, followed her mother and brothers who moved to California; when she moved to Las Vegas, missing Mexico, marrying a non-Mexican, job in phone marketing as a English as a second language speaker, moves into a position with Your Travel Place, where her bilingual skills are useful; changes in the travel agency business………40 – 43 Talks about involvement with Mexico Vivo in 1995, Ixela Gutierrez, Gabriela Regaldo, dancing in the street near the Arturo Cambeiro building on 13th and Washington. Mentions Tony Miranda, Marta Luevanos, Mexican Patriotic Committee, Nevada Arts Council, Marcia Robinson. Explains her employment with the Clark County, teaming up with Nevada Arts Council, International Food and Folklife Festival. Day of the Dead celebration, Prince of Peace church, Our Lady of Guadalupe celebrations, commercialization of Day of the Dead due to the movie Coco’s popularity. More about her career at Winchester Dondero Community Center, Dia de los Muertos, Lied Children’s Museum, ofrendas, Spanish language newspapers (El Mundo and El Tiempo), World Vibration. Mentions Patrick Gaffey, Kay Tuma, Angel Gadzhev, interview on KNPR………………………………………………………………………44 - 54 vii Discusses tourism in Mexico and attraction to Americans; how she views the Latinx community of Las Vegas today; local arts community and her son Luis who is an artist; mentions Brett Sperry, PublicUs restaurant, Burning Man festival art. Spanish language and her children, visits to Mexico, Nayarit, indigenous people Cora……………………………………………..55 – 61 Talks about becoming a citizen of the US in 2001; admiration for the US response to 9/11 terrorist attack; food and culinary traditions during Lent and her relationship with her religious upbringing……………………………………………………………….………………..62 – 66 1 Session 1 This is Barbara Tabach. Today is December 4th, 2018. I am sitting in my office at the Oral History Research Center at UNLV's Library for the Latinx Voices project of Southern Nevada. I am sitting with... Irma Varela: I-R-M-A, V-A-R.E-L-A. (laughing) I nearly forgot my own last name. That's so funny. Only because somebody misspelled it on your reserved parking spot. Right. It's V-A-R-E-L-A, Varela. Yes, you're correct. (chuckling) I love it. We'll be very comfortable. Irma, how do you identify? We were talking about the various labels that come up in this project. It just gets so confusing and the longer you live in the United States, the harder it is to say I'm this or that. I personally don't like to be called Latina; it's too broad. If you have to identify me with a culture, call me Mexican. But I have been in Las Vegas longer than I have been anywhere else—so I am also American. I love that. I really do. I think that's really important distinction; you identify with your ancestral roots; and, yet, you live in America. Right. Correct. When I first came, you have to go through these stages of change in your life and you're trying to figure out who you are and I was very proud to be Mexican, not that it has diminished; I'm still very proud of being born Mexican, but it was a fight inside me and now I don't have a fight. I am Mexican-born American. That's beautiful. Thank you. 2 Let's start with your roots and where you were born. Where in Mexico were you born? I was born in Zacatecas, Mexico, which is a state on the north-central part of Mexico, very famous for being a colonial city; it's very colonial. In the time of the conquest it was the main provider of silver for the Spanish. If you go to Seville in a tour and they show you all those beautiful altars and everything made out of silver, they say, "From Zacatecas." How long had your family been in that area? I think they've been there for a long time. Forever? I say forever. My mom says she was born in Mexico City, but her mom is from Zacatecas. My father's side, they're from Zacatecas, too, for many generations. I think I can trace my father's background better than I can my mom because my mom was the daughter of a Spanish salesman who left my grandma and so we don't know that side of the family very well. And you say your father's was easier to trace? Yes, because that's the family that has remained in Zacatecas for a very long time. It's a very established family, large family, too. Did you grow up there your whole life? I was born there and then I stayed there until 1979 when I came to the United States to study English. That was my first thing. Then I went back and I did the university in Guadalajara. Then I came back after I graduated and I stayed because my mom had moved by then. My dad passed away when I was in university in Guadalajara, the first year of university, in 1982. My mom moved to the United States in '96. My father was a bracero when he was younger. He came with the Bracero Program; during the war, I think that's when they came to help. 3 Explain that. From what I understand, because I'm not very versed with that—that was something they didn't talk too much about in my family. My mom was very proud and she didn't want to talk about working hard jobs. She always gave my dad a hard time because he didn't use his knowledge of English to improve his job, although he worked for the government in Mexico in the Water District. But I guess my mom always wanted him to be more, like he wanted us to be more, always pushing more. My mom was, like I said, from a single mother because her father left and she didn't go to school for what she said. She never finished, I think, elementary school. She would never say exactly how far she went. But she had a private tutor. She said that at that time when she was growing up that's how they were taught. She loved to read, and she loved to learn new things and to travel to learn new things—so she instilled that in all of us. We all liked that and she pushed us to be that. My dad was a more happy-go-lucky kind of a man. Very strict, very strict. Very religious, his family was very religious. We would go to church every Sunday so he could fall asleep. My mom wasn't that much of a religious person, but we would go; but he was. His sister was a nun. He had a lot of sisters and one brother who looked just like him. My dad died when he was fifty-nine. He died really young of a heart attack. That must have been shocking for everybody. He loved fishing, the outdoors; things like that. My mom, even though she was a homemaker, she was always thinking of something. She was a teacher for sewing and she would make the dresses for her friends and make money and save; she was very organized in that. She bought a house and then she bought another house. She was always making money somewhere and 4 always trying to progress. This was in Mexico? In Mexico, yes. How many children were in the family? We are seven, seven kids. She was a busy person. My mom was busy, busy. I don't know how she did it. But, yes, she had seven kids and she was teaching classes, not all the time, and doing dresses. She did dresses for my cousins and my aunts and things like that. She was organized with her money. Where were you in the list of kids? I'm the middle one; I'm the sandwich; I'm the fourth of seven. You're right in the middle, for sure. I'm the middle. I'm the meat, yes. Did your older siblings go to college, too, before you? My oldest brother studied to go to veterinary school and then he got married and he stopped. My other brother, he was going to school. He didn't know what to do. He came to the United States., he got married, and he never went back. But he owns his own company, a construction company in California. He worked from the bottom up, the hardest job, and then he opened his own company. My sister and I, we are a year apart and we both went to school about the same time. We both had children about the same time, too. My son and her daughter are six months apart. She was going to school, the same school we went to, Universidad del Valle de Atemajac (UNIVA) in Guadalajara. She went for psychology and I went for business administration and tourism. We graduated from that. Two of the three brothers also graduated from UNIVA. 5 Wonderful. I work in the hotels in Mexico. I work in Cabo San Lucas, but I had my son out of wedlock. My sister got married; I didn't. It was very hard to try to make it. I was in Cabo San Lucas testing my own wings because my mom was very strong and so to be yourself is nice, and after you went to religious school all your life. We went to private school, nuns all the time. So it was nice to be free, in a way, free and not, because they put so many things on your head that it's not even funny. To be honest with you, you cannot move. You feel guilty for everything. You almost feel guilty for been. I was feeling my wings; that's what my mom called it. "You went to Cabo San Lucas to try your wings." That's what she said. How long were you there? I wasn't there that long because missed my son. He stayed in Guadalajara with my sister and I said, "I cannot do this. Send him." My son came and it was hard because I was working in the hotel all day and he had to be baby-sat. One day, a friend of mine, took him out; he said he asked me permission to take him, and I don't remember he did. We used to ride the bus for the hotel and he would stay on the bus to go with the babysitter who was somebody who worked at the hotel. We had different shifts, so when I get in, she will get off, and so she would take Luis. That day when I got out, Luis wasn't in the bus and I was going insane. Can you imagine being near the ocean and a little kid, four years old, and you cannot find your child? I was going insane. Finally, he showed up and my friend told me, "No, you told me it was okay." It is like, "Where is Luis? Where is Luis?" I was looking everywhere. Anyway, he finally showed up. He didn't understand what was going on. I don't like remembering this… It was hard. I said, "What am I doing here? What am I doing here? I need somebody where I feel that Luis is fine." So I went back to Guadalajara. I went back to the hotel I was 6 working in in Guadalajara. But I still couldn't find my place. My mom was already here with my younger brothers. When you say "here," she was already in the United States? In the United States, in California because she didn't come to Las Vegas. I said, "Well, I want to go visit my mom." "You should stay, and da, da, da; we can fix your papers and everything." So I did. I left Luis in December here and I went back. I worked for a few months and then I came back to stay. I never went back, in 1988. That was the pivotal...You were growing up. That's really what you were doing. I can relate. Yes, yes, yes. So you and Luis start a fresh life here. Here in California. Of course, you come to the United States; to face challenges it is not easy even though you have degrees and whatever. I went and I enrolled at the school—because even though I studied one year of English in the United States, it wasn't enough. I still think I don't have enough. But anyway, you need to keep trying, right? You need to keep learning. We enrolled into a program that they had in the system in Whittier. I was taking English there. I asked at the school, "I want to revalidate my classes and my schooling." They told me that I had to do a GED. I said, "A GED? I had a degree already." So I said, "Forget it. I don't want to do a GED. Why do I have to start all over?" Anyway, so I left it alone. Then really quick I married. I married in December. I came in March and December was I was married. We moved to Las Vegas. I came to Las Vegas in '89, in February 1989, and I've been here ever since. Describe Las Vegas when you arrived. Had you been here before? 7 No, I had never been before. When I first came, the sign that now everybody takes pictures with, was out there so far away. It was really far away. Now I see it and wonder it's not the same sign—it is—but I used to think that it was a different one because it used to be so far. No more. It was small. There were no tall buildings. There really were not many tall buildings; when I came there were not. They were starting to thinking about it, but, no, there were no tall buildings. I think there was a hotel where the MGM is that it was called the Aquamarina. I think that was the name…It was very small because the other one was big, white. That was kind of the tallest building. It was a white building. Then later on they built the MGM in there and then the Excalibur. The New York; that came way later. There wasn't a lot. Of course, I just moved from Mexico to the United States. I married a person who doesn't speak any Spanish, no Spanish whatsoever. I came to a place that I didn't know anybody. What did that feel like? Horrible. I was really lonely. It was very hard, really hard. My son was little. I always wanted my son to have a dad. I was doing the best that I could. Did you go to work? Were you able to stay at home? Hold on. No, I couldn't. He told me he couldn't make it if I didn't work; that I needed to work. Maybe I lasted like, what, four months without work, if that much. He found me right away a job in a travel agency because I was a travel agent in Mexico. I had done that work, like I did hotels; I did that, too, because of my degree. When I was trying to revalidate, I was able to take a class in travel agency. There was like a technical class. I took it again just to be able to work. So I applied and got the job, part-time. At that time, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter. Oh, wow. 8 Yes. Luis was going to school. He spoke Spanish all the time because that was what it was. Then he was forced not to speak Spanish anymore. The teacher told him that he couldn't speak Spanish. What school did he go to? It was Martin Luther King. It was at Lake Mead, Nellis; around that area; that's where we came. We came to live in those apartments on Lake Mead and Nellis; that was my first residence when I came. He was told he couldn't speak Spanish. Then at home I will talk Spanish to him, but my husband said that he didn't want to hear Spanish; that he didn't want to be in a house where he didn't understand what we were saying, and so he stopped Luis from speaking Spanish, him and the teachers and the environment, although he grew up talking Spanish and he talks Spanish now. He's bilingual? Yes, he's bilingual, but he could be stronger if we could have continued to do it and if I would have stood up, but I didn't. I didn't. I said, "It's okay; it's okay." Did you have any role models that were in similar situations to help you through that? No. I did not know anybody. I didn't know anybody. I let it go and I just tried to do my best, trying to make the happy family, tried to do what I was told that is supposed to happen. It was very hard for me because you're told that you are supposed to take care of your husband and whatever. I will get up and try to make breakfast and he wouldn't want it. He goes, "No, if I'm hungry, I'm going to get it myself. I'll make it." That adjustment was hard for me. I took it like he didn't want me because that was my expectations. Of course, we're coming from different worlds, and so there was a cultural clash between us that could never get better and that's what 9 made things end, I think. We could never communicate. If I was having an argument with him or something, I will lower my eyes and he would say that I'm not paying attention to him. This was very hard for me to express, and so I couldn't do it eye to eye. Things like that. There were a lot of things like that that made it difficult in our relationship to keep it going. Your career path, what were the steps that lead you to where you are today? I finally met a girl through the travel agency that was traveling from Las Vegas to Albuquerque. Her name is Gabriella. That's my best friend. I said to her, "I don't have friends. Do you mind if I call you?" We began being friends and we talked once in a while, not all the time because she was single, she is younger than me, and I had kids. One day she told me, "There is this group that they dance Mexican folkloric." I said, "I love dancing Mexican. I want to do it." I always liked dancing, always liked dancing since I was a little kid. I was good at dancing. We got to this group that is Mexico Vivo Dance Company. I don't know if you've interviewed Ixela Gutierrez. But anyway, she is the director. Ixela had this group. She just came to Las Vegas, I would say, in 1995. We were rehearsing outside the Arturo Cambiero Center that doesn't exist anymore. Now there's buildings—I think the Latin Chamber is there now, on thirteen. We used to dance in the street. Oh my God, it's like I found heaven. You mean they would block the street off for parties or...? No. Arturo Cambiero building’s parking lot; that's where we would practice. Ixela is very active with looking for things and so she found places that we would perform. We started performing here and there and everywhere and I loved it. I was having a very good time. Through that I met the Nevada Arts Council, Andrea Graham and Eliza Buck. Eliza Buck was working here at that time as an associate for the Nevada Arts Council Folk Arts Program. They were doing the Community Roots Program. They taught me how to do interviews so we 10 could do research on the Hispanic culture in Las Vegas at that time, folk arts. We did several interviews. What did you do with those interviews? I hope that the Nevada Arts Council has it. We did several interviews. There was a charra suit maker. I did one for the Matachines, which is a group that is here. We did an interview for the mole making from Puebla. There's several. I can't remember all of them. We need to find those. They exist, I hope. When the Nevada Arts Council moved to downtown—they were on Seventh Street; Christina Barr was in charge—somebody broke into the Nevada Arts Council and they stole things. I don't know if some of those records were lost or not. Rebecca Snetselaar is right now in charge of the program here in Las Vegas because Patricia Atkinson is in Reno. But Rebecca has the archives and she's a very good archivist and she told me they were there. Anyway, we did take pictures. We did the recording. We did all kinds of things. Then I really enjoyed doing that and I started doing it myself, and so I interviewed people that I knew. If I went to Mexico, I interviewed people. I like to interview people. I did tape recordings of people. What did you do with all that? I have those. What did you learn? I just like to learn how people live, how they make sense of the world because it is really hard to try to make sense of the world. It always moved me, the people who are very traditional, who have carried a tradition. They have something. They have something inside that I really like. It's that passion for what they believe should be preserved and I truly enjoy that and the love for 11 doing that thing. For instance, the guy doing the hammock in Merida. He tells me about it and he's all happy. The way that I was able to get the people to give me information, it felt really good to do that. I did it for a while. Then there was a job opening for...But years past. We did the Community Roots Program in 1997, if I'm not mistaken. Then in 2000, there was a job at the County. I was a travel agent, now a full-time travel agent, and I was doing the dancing, too. There was a job at the County for a folk arts program coordinator. It was a grant funded position. So I applied. I said, "I can do this; I can do this." I never did transfers or anything for my degree or anything, so I just went for it. They knew me because they knew me from doing the research and from being with the dance group. Some people knew me here; Joan Loma and Dorothy Wright, they knew me. When I applied, they gave me the interview and everything, but the job was given to Eleanor Levy who was a Ph.D. candidate. She almost had her Ph.D. finished. She was finishing with her dissertation. I said, "Oh, I didn't get in because I don't have the degree." What exactly was the position that was available? It was a folk arts program coordinator. Coordinator, all right. We were in charge of doing the International Food and Folk Life Festival and doing different things to preserve folk arts in Las Vegas. When Andrea was here, she did some research on that; same thing with Eliza, who were the people who were documenting folk arts traditions in Las Vegas, from different cultures, not just the Hispanics. In the case of the Community Roots, I was doing Hispanic preservation and Marcia Washington was doing African Americans, and there were other groups in other cities. We were four, four pilot groups that did Community Roots Project. It didn't develop too much. We didn't do more with that. But that helped me get in the 12 area that I liked. They hired Eleanor and then they hired me part-time. So I left the travel agency and I went back to school, which was very difficult, I must say. Where were you going to school? I did a distance program with the Antioch University and the Intercultural Relations Institute (ICI) in Portland. It was a collaboration they were doing. Then in the middle of it, they separated, and the institute went with Stanford, and from what I hear that program doesn't exist anymore. But it was Intercultural Relations Institute. It still exists. They still do a summer program where you go and learn and whatever. I did the summer program; that's how I started. Eliza, we kept in touch because Eliza quit working here and she went to Portland and she was in Portland. I said, "Eliza, I would like to go back to school. Do you have any suggestions? I want to study folklore." She says, "You don't want to study folklore because you won't get any job. Maybe you should try this." She suggested the Intercultural Relations for my master's degree. I applied. I was accepted and so that was that. It took me forever to finish. I was endangered to being kicked out of the program because I wasn't finished. But it was really hard to write in English. It still is very hard for me to write in English. I did finish my thesis thanks to one of my teachers. What was your thesis on? God, if I can remember. If it's too tough a question... No, it's not too difficult because everything is—look, this is what happened. There was a program here at UNLV that they were looking for people who wanted to do—I don't know what 13 started first. I think what started first...They were doing an interview of the housekeepers in Las Vegas. They wanted somebody bilingual who wanted to help and I said, "I'll do it." We got paid. It was a study here through Berkeley University and university here. What's her name, the teacher? She worked in hotels. I can't remember her name. Anyway, through that then we did another study that you should have the records and we studied the small business owners, Latino business owners, and that is here in the university. We did it here. We interviewed small businesses. Because I had done that research, I used that information—not that information exactly, but my perception. What did I call it? It's such a long name. It's Exploratory Investigation of Business Owners in Las Vegas; something like that. It's really long, I remember. They all are. It's super long. They were my perceptions of what I thought that whole study was all about and how the community saw us as Latinos, my perception. Not the community, but the mainstream. Mainstream, how they see Latinos. If you don't have a program or if you don't have a plan, you're not going to succeed, and how Latinos we've got a plan, we're succeeding; it was something like that, which is just cultural ways of doing things. Of course, I'm sure that many of the Latino business owners mix both to make things happen. But anyway, that was my thesis. What did you learn through that? Can you tell me more about that? What I thought is that that whole thing was biased anyway; the way we were approaching it, it was not necessarily understanding the culture. The perception and the results were not accurate in my point of view. They were not accurate because they were not understanding where the people were coming from and why they were doing the things that they were doing. In a nutshell that's pretty much what I thought. I said, "I think that a lot of the research is biased anyway." You cannot separate who you are in your writing. You can say you can be as subjective as you 14 want, but, no, you are you in your writing and you're going to put yourself in it. You cannot separate yourself from what you're writing. That's my thinking. Getting the master's and checking that off your list of things to accomplish, what