Transcript of interview with Joe Lappin by Gordon Brusso, March 4, 1976

UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin i An Interview with Joe Lappin An Oral History Conducted by Gordon Brusso Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin iv Abstract On March 4, 1976, Gordon Brusso interviewed former miner, Joe Lappin (born November 14th, 1914 in Santa Paula, California) about his life in Boulder City, Nevada. The two discuss his early occupational history and his work for the Bureau of Mines. He then goes on to explain the different housing systems that developed in Boulder City during World War Two. UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 5 March 4th, 1976. Mr. Lappin has been a Nevada resident since 1941, living in the Boulder City area. Mr. Lappin, would you like to tell us some of your early experiences when you first came to Nevada? Why yes, Mr. Brusso, I'd be happy to. I first came to Southern Nevada in August of 1941. The reason I came was to seek employment, seek my fortune, and the reason that I came to this particular area was the fact that I had a close friend in Boulder City who had invited me out the previous year, I had spent some time with him, and the area looked good to me, and so I ended up here. I immediately found employment in Boulder City with the United States Bureau of mines, with the plant that they were building there. However, I couldn't find a place to reside in Boulder City, so I lived in North Las Vegas for several months until I was able to find housing in Boulder. I recall the first housing that I found in Boulder City—it was a vacant screen porch, and with winter coming on, it wasn't the most pleasant place to live. However, I purchased some canvas, put it over the screen, around the screen porch, bought myself a second hand bed, and that was my housing, my home for the first year. It wasn't all that bad because I was working nights at the bureau of mines stations and I would come home and jump into bed because it was too cold to sit around. And in the morning, I would jump out of bed, and run down to the restaurant, and have some breakfast, so actually, I didn't spend too much time in my abode. The bureau of mines proved a very interesting place to work. I might give a little history of the bureau of mines station. The station has been in operation since the middle thirties. I think in '35. They moved down here as a branch of the Reno station. With War coming on, and the clouds looming quite large on the horizon, the government realized that the high grade manganese ore would be cut off, most of it being purchased from higher nations. Enormous amounts of high grade--pardon me, I mean low-grade manganese ore in this country, but we had no way to extract UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 6 it. Or at least, not the knowledge to extract it. So the station was set up for this purpose. I worked there for twenty-five years and retired in 1966. For a temporary job, when I first came here, it proved to be pretty much a lasting job, and the principal job of my life. Now, in that period, Mr. Lappin, of course, they didn't have the modern air conditioning systems like we have now. What did you do to find some relief from the heat in the summertime? Well, it was explained to me after I moved out here, that the swamp cooler, as we know it today, although it's been pretty well replaced by the refrigeration air conditioning, the swamp cooler was actually developed in Phoenix, in this part of the west. At the beginning it was very primitive, but later on, it was developed on into quite an efficient unit if the humidity didn't get too high. Now when the humidity got too high, it didn't work. You might just as well turn it off. But if the humidity stayed low, the evaporation was high, and you could stay quite comfortable in your home. We didn't have it in our automobiles, so a ride in the daytime in an automobile was quite an ordeal. You really became glued to the cushions. Going back for a moment, I can recall the exact day I moved to Boulder City. I think that weekend, if all of us, if we are the proper age, can properly remember where we were exactly on December 7, 1941, and Boulder City is where I was, the very first day I moved there. I moved to Boulder December 6th, woke up the morning of December 7th, and there we were, right in the middle in the start of World War II. The town of Boulder was even then, an attractive town. Perhaps not as attractive as it is now, but there were lawns and there were shade trees, and the finest group of people it's ever been my pleasure to live with. Because most of them, in fact all of them, were in fact, construction people who had suffered hard knocks and wounds around the country and learned how to get along with each other, and it reflected on the people you lived and worked with. And talked to everyday. UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 7 The town was quite slow then. I think, I'm guessing now, but I think it was perhaps less than five thousand people because the dam was completed. The only thing remaining was to put the generators and the powerhouse that hadn't been put in, and I know there were quite a few holes put down there for quite a few generators. Some of them weren't put on incidentally, until the end of World War II. The three C-Camps, the Conservation Corps was still in existence. They had the large dormitories there and the 3 C-Boys were working, although that was wiped out by the beginning World War II because all of the young men working the 3-C Camps were immediately drafted or put into defense work. The principal employment in Boulder City was for the Bureau of Reclamation, the National Park Service, and the Bureau, the Bureau of the United States, Bureau of Mines, and employed people. The power companies--the Southern California Edison Company and the City of Los Angeles, who operated the power house, employed a number of people. In fact, the City of Los Angeles, surprisingly, through many people, was one of the largest employers in Boulder City. Another interesting sideline, is the Southern California Edison Company, and the people they employed. Their people actually worked for a California corporation, who lived in Nevada and worked in Arizona. They were operated in the Arizona Powerhouse and this is unique because I don't believe you'll find very many people who would hurl their job, their daily work, and they're associated with three states and that matter. Naturally, there were the service people that took care of the town. But even then, they all worked for the Bureau of Reclamation because the Bureau of Reclamation owned the town. The town was owned and administered by the Bureau of Reclamation. You could own your own home, but you couldn't own the land itself. You leased the land from the federal government. They changed that not too many years ago, and we were now an incorporated city, we own our own home, we own UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 8 our lots, we own our lands, and the Bureau of Reclamation has nothing to do with it other than holding their property there. Did that include the Downtown part of the town? The business buildings and all that? Yes. And the office buildings? Yes, Mr. Brusso, it did. They didn't own the buildings, but they owned the land. And I think it was a ninety-nine year lease thing, you know? If you (unintelligible) or some large building like this, then yes, you would get your long-term lease. Many people thought that the Bureau of Reclamation administering the town was sort of a dictatorship, but I had always thought that if it was a dictatorship, it was a benevolent dictatorship, because if you behaved yourself, and didn't get too far out of line, or didn't celebrate a little too nosily on Saturday nights or on paydays, you got along very well. The police department was the Bureau of Reclamation Ranger, and the whole area was called a reservation. The whole area was called a "Reservation" but I think that that was a misnomer because I believe actually, that there's only one type of reservation and that was an Indian Reservation. But this is what we knew the Boulder City area as. What was the court system? At the Bureau of Reclamation, handled all police matters? They—they had a city manager and before I came there, he had left I believe I had come there, I think he had pretty much held, held court and passed a sentence. And it totally operated as much like a court. They could--if you were giving them trouble, or an undesirable sort of person, they could move you out of town right now. You had no recourse, out you went. Boom. But minor offenses, such as traffic violations—? (Unintelligible) I think they had a judge who was appointed by the Bureau of Reclamation. Perhaps, you know, I can't really remember all the details, I had very little due at the courts, so I'm not really all that UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 9 familiar with them. But I do think they had a judge system who was perhaps was appointed by the government. Now has the town expanded since then? Are there any of the original buildings still standing? Or has it been pretty much rebuilt and evolved into an entirely different area than it was as you knew it those years. Well, since it's been incorporated, of course, there have been a lot of changes because housing has come in and a lot of people now, who had worked in and lived in Boulder City because they feel it's a small town and ideal place to raise their children, and we still don't have a small problem out there which many people knew about through the way and so that part of the town has changed. A lot of the original buildings Downtown still remain, although many of them are gone. And not to the extent that they're gone in Las Vegas--it's a completely different situation. There was an army camp in Boulder City and it was called Camp (Unintelligible) until they discovered that they had another Camp (Unintelligible) in one of the Carolinas, North or South Carolina, I don't recall. And this was a little confusing so they changed the name of the camp to Camp Williston. Now the army camps sat down on the southern side of town, southeastern actually. And that is all covered with housing now. And everything at the old Army camp is now completely gone. Did that disband immediately after the war? Or was it still (unintelligible) for a little buyers? It was no--it was one of the first ones to go actually. I think maybe it was, there wasn't anyone using it. I think before the war actually ended, it was pretty much--it started out as kind of, I don't really know what it started off as, but I know there was a military outfit in there and the last group that was in there were military personnel and I think they were shipped out to North UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 10 Africa. And then I doubt very much if there was very many people in there after that, except just people to look after the camp and keep it in shape. Was there a loss of population in the Boulder City area after the war? You had to have a regrowth period again? Or was it pretty constant? I don't believe there was too much of a drop in population, I think it remained pretty constant. Although, at the beginning of the war, we had the terrific employment here and there were people who were making a hundred dollars a week which was very, very, good money, you know. We were just getting over this depression. And these people were making a hundred dollars a week and couldn't find a place to live. And they were sleeping on the lawns of government parks there. And wading in the restaurants. They were here until the final dam construction? No, not primarily. No, not really. They weren't hiring too many extra people there on the dam. The main thing was the basic magnesium plant in Henderson, and in a moment, I'd like to get back to that and my thoughts on that. And what it'd look like. Manganese Ore, in the Vegas Wash area, employed quite a number of people. That was an open pit manganese mine. They set up a mill and extracted this little great ore and in fact, we processed much of it at the bureau of mines station. This was one reason for opening the mine quite up there, pilot plant, manganese pilot plant in Boulder city. There was additional employment around. The Las Vegas Air Force Base—this was Army then, before the Air Force. (Unintelligible) At what is now Nellis. They were building out there and marching and there were a lot of people working there. And all of these people were seeking housing. Las Vegas was full, so a lot of people came out to Boulder and tried to find housing there. So this, this was probably the peak of population in Boulder City, although I'm sure there certainly was no way of counting heads. Some of them never had UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 11 addresses. They got their mail to the post office through general deliveries. So really, we don't know. Was this temporary? Or was this just kind of a spontaneous reaction? It stayed this way until the war ended. Oh this lasted all through the war. Yes, all through the war years. Now, the basic magnesium plant at Henderson was one of the most startling things that I've ever seen in my life. I had never seen a town born from barren desert, into now, what I guess, the most industrial town in the state. And certainly, well worth over 25,000 people reside in Henderson now. Certainly. Bu by the time they started this, I was still living in North Las Vegas and I was commuting over to Boulder City each day. Now we have to visualize what it looked like going out to Boulder Highway. When you got down here at the intersection of Fremont and Charleston, there was nothing beyond that until you got out to the town we now call North, East Las Vegas. It was called Whitney then. And Whitney was a little, very, very small little (unintelligible) spot in the rural. Few bars, not much else, and I recall the summertime hot and dry and you were going to Boulder, you'd stop and get a beer there. And that beer would last you up until you got to Boulder Highway, barren desert on both sides of the road, until you got to a spot called Midway. Now Midway would be in the vicinity of Sunset and Boulder Highway. Is this going approximately on the route that the Boulder Highway takes now? Exactly, very same road. Except then— Was it sealed at that time? Or was it (unintelligible)— No, it was a paved road, but it was a very narrow two-lane paved road, and very narrow shoulders. It wasn't the super highway we have today. But this little town, wide spot in the road UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 12 at Midway was nothing but a gas pump and a little four stool bar and a little cotton wood tree. And then there was nothing from there until the railroad passed. And then when you got to the railroad pass, just before you cross the railroad, right before you got to Niece's Circle Bar, you went across the highway and the old Railroad Pass Casino, which still exists today, is still in operation, was still the same building. What did you say this was, the Perfect Circle Bar? The Mace's Circle Bar. Mace's? Mace's Circle Bar, and on the left was the Railroad Pass Casino. Mm-hmm. And then you went off into Boulder City and out on the outskirts of Boulder City, about two miles from town, there was a Garden Shack. and this garden shack always had a couple of bureau of reclamation rangers there, and they didn't stop everyone of course, but if they wanted too, or if they thought you were intoxicated, they would stop you, shake you down, and take your liquor away from you must remember--until Boulder City was incorporated, it was a dry town, the only dry town in Nevada. No liquor, no gambling. And it stayed that way— (Unintelligible) And even today, while we have liquor, we don't have gambling still in Boulder City, and I've always had fun travelling around the country. Someone finds I'm from Nevada, and they'll say, "Oh Nevada, wide open Nevada. Nothing exists that is against the law over there." And I say, "Don't you believe it. I come from a town where everything is against the law," and they're very amazed to find that there is a dry town in Nevada. Not now of course, but in those days, it wasn't dry. But if we wanted liquor, we'd have to drive four miles out to Railroad Pass, which was just UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 13 outside the boundary line of the reservation. You'd buy your liquor, and Railroad Pass was Boulder City's night club. This is where all the townspeople (unintelligible) That's where you went on Saturday nights? This is where we went on Saturday night and on payday. And this was built during Six Company Days with the construction people. Was there any particular form of recreation that people participated in, in those years? Or were they so busy working that they didn't have the time for it? Well, I think probably, before my time, in the Six Company days, the only recreation was on pay day, I guess, going to Las Vegas and getting drunk. From the stories my friends tell me, well actually, I don't know. I'm sure that there must've been family entertainment of the sort. They finally found a place to hold a picnic, just as we do today. (Unintelligible) that first movie theatre then? The movie theatre was in existence when I moved there. The Rural Brothers, who passed away a few years ago. It was a small town movie house and one of the highlights of the week was going to the movies. But getting back to the basic Magnesium plant, I was commuting from North Las Vegas to Boulder every day. In early September, and some of those transits were set up, and all these surveyors were going about their business and that was on stakes. And that night, when we went back home, eight hours later you might say, they had stakes all over that desert. Now this was barren desert, as barren as the top of a table. There was nothing there except the only (unintelligible) bush, and rocks. They had these stakes driven all over and the next morning, when we went by, going to work, there were I don't know how many enormous trucks on their unloading bulldozers. Enormous big caterpillars, bulldozers, scrapers of all types, and that night, when we went back, they had cleaned that desert off and piled (unintelligible) into mounds as big UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 14 as hills, and the desert was just as clean as could be. Well, from then, I would be hard-pressed to explain how the job went. It was unbelievable. You'd go by in the morning, it would be pile of ground. You'd go by that night, and it would be a building. And I don't mean a little shack, I mean a large building. They had carpenters working on scaffolding so close together that they could hardly—they were getting in each other's way, hammering on one side and the other on another side. Now this job, was under contract to McNeil Construction Company of California. And it was a cost plus job, which was the way they got things built and worked on. It wasn't a bid job, the only way McNeil could make money was to spend money. Now we call it time and material. Living quarters that were being built? This was the plant living quarters, the whole thing went up together. The big office buildings, it was all a bit documented and there are many, many fine pictures if anyone wants to research this further. Of the plant, what it looked like, these enormous construction camps, and the whole thing from the ground up. It's very interesting. Particularly the photographs, because then you grasp the complexity and the enormity of— Were they more or less (unintelligible) of a pre-fab construction? Or? No, they were using pre-fab, but this--no. No, there wasn't that much pre-fab. It was mostly constructed from the ground up. Now, comparison of how large the job was, there was a number of people on the payroll at the peak of employment, which is documented at something over seven thousand people on the payroll. I understand and I read that at the peak of employment on the dam, on the Hoover Dam, under Six Companies, the contractor that built the dam, something over six thousand. So actually, the BMI job, while not as spectacular, it was (unintelligible) and more people. And certainly a lot more money. Because when the dam was built, (unintelligible) a UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 15 day of later, the BMI plant was built with hundred dollar a week labor! So you can begin to see the amount of money that was dumped into this little town of Las Vegas, this enormous amount of money and number of people working here, and this is when the explosion all started. Did—? Las Vegas, you must remember, then, was a town of twelve thousand people, maybe a few more. In fact, in the 1940 census, the state of Nevada had just passed a hundred thousand, we had finally hit the thousand mark, we had finally went over a hundred thousand people in the entire state. For the entire state? Which was quite a milestone for the little state of Nevada. And most of that population is in the northern area? In the northern area. Las Vegas was the very— The southern area too. In fact, as I recall, what we call out of Carson City in those days, were just the crumbs of (unintelligible) but it certainly turned around hasn't it? Do you feel that a good portion of these people stay? Or as soon as the mine operations started tapering off, did they—? Many— Or were they just here for the early construction building period of it? Many people stayed of course, but the higher percentage of people, the smart ones, saved their money, and when the job was over, went back to their hometowns on their states. But many people did stay in Boulder City. This job, building the dam in Boulder City saved so many people because the country was in the midst of the worst depression they've ever known. People UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 16 were desperate, people were really starving, I remember I was just a boy in high school, and if you're by yourself, no family, no one depending on you, you can get a long pretty well. (Unintelligible), but the family man, the father is with children and wives and trying to make a living, are pretty desperate. So this job, that meant so much too many of them. And many of them did stay in Boulder, men and, many of them are my personal friends, raised their families there, and while there isn't much opportunity for the young man growing up in Boulder, or the young lady, to get a job there, many of them come back occasionally and visit their people, and they're pretty solid people. I'm very, very proud of the type of family we have in Boulder City. Listen, there's some talk about Boulder City more or less—developing into a retirement center such as Palm Springs or some of the other desert areas. There have been many ideas proposed on what to do with Boulder City. We should remember that after Six Companies built the town, and everything was temporary—the old hospital was temporary, everything was strictly a construction town. Because there was no thought of a town being there after the town was constructed. (Unintelligible) Perhaps very small, a few reclamation offices, things like this, but actually, not as we know it today. Well, apparently a lot of these people who helped on the dam because they liked it just stayed there. and they bought some of these houses, we call 'me Six Company houses from the contractor, they remodeled them and they lived there and their children, and they had a grade school there, but their children had to go to high school in Las Vegas. And it wasn't until 1942, June of 1942 that Boulder City, they had a high school that they could graduate their first graduating class. And incidentally, my wife was a member of that graduating class at Boulder City High. UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 17 How large was that class? It was twenty some odd students. She had a picture them, but it was twenty three or four. How many students were there in the school? I don't know because everyone was under one roof. It was a grade school and a high school-- They had an elementary and a secondary all together? All in one building there, yes. This was in 1942? 1942, yes, was the first graduating class. And that—how long did that condition last? Well, until they built another building. Until they built another building or until they separated into two schools? I think in the, I don't recall the exact year, about four years ago, they built a new elementary school and moved the children out of the Arizona building, which is now the Boulder, City Hall for the town. They were the last people to move out. The high school was built in the fifties. So they built their own high school in the fifties. So they were able to separate the secondary and the elementary— Yes, in the fifties. Early fifties? Yes, I think perhaps the early fifties. So between 1940 and 19— For ten years. Ten years? Ten or twelve years. UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 18 So they really had an all-purpose school. Kind of like the old one room school of the early days. This is true, this is true. Well, there are still a lot of people there. Another interesting thing, when I first moved there, we didn't have a cemetery. Now this might seem amazing, but there is a reason for this. You know, construction people in most cases, are young people. The older people who work construction don't feel too well unless they're comfortable with jumping half way across the country to work on a job. Construction is a young man's game. So we didn't need a cemetery did we, people weren't dying. People were at the prime of their lives. What did they do with construction accidents? Well, then they, of course, sent them back to their hometowns or some of them to Las Vegas. We still don't have a mortuary there, but we do have our own cemetery now and sadly it's quite full. When was this? This was in the forties. Forties. In the forties we established the first cemetery. And there were a lot of the old-timers out there today and they were my friends and I used to love talking to them about the early days. You know, this term, old-timer, I think, is a relative thing. I think an old-timer is anyone who was there before I was. And I never considered myself an old timer although, when I think I've lived there thirty five years, I suppose I do seem like an old timer to someone who has lived there ten years or less. But I just want to put this in, in this conversation because I don't want some of my friends out there, who lived there since the middle thirties, listen to that Joe Lappin and Jonny trying to sound like an old-timer. But I'm very grateful for some of the old-timers telling me UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 19 about their times out there in Boulder and this one thing, I do regret that I wasn't there with. Because I certainly have enjoyed my thirty-five years in Boulder. (Tape one ends) What did you have in the way of medical facilities Mr. Lappin? Was there a hospital at that time? Yes, Mr. Brusso. The government had built a hospital building on Arizona Street and Boulder City to be used by, I imagine, the Six Company, contractor. To be used during the construction of the dam. By the time I moved to Boulder, the main part of the construction being over, the hospital was shut down. And at that time, or short afterwards, the National Park Service took it over for their offices and a small museum, as I remember. Now that continued for several years until the public health service took the hospital over, or the building over, and again made it a hospital, operated under the public health service. Was that state or county? This was federal, this was all federal. I don't remember why they did this, but perhaps there were so many of employees in the town that they felt they should have a hospital there. This continued for several years. I remember I was a patient in that hospital while the public service was operating but it was shut down, probably, I remember the procreation cut. And it remained vacant for oh, several years again, until the townspeople thought that it would be an asset to have a hospital open, and it certainly is. You don't realize the value of a hospital in a small town, particularly, when you're some twenty-five miles away from the nearest hospital. So it was closed down, when? Let's see, it was closed down in the fifties, part of the fifties, and I think in the late fifties, when the townspeople got together— UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 20 So you went on (unintelligible) years without going? Without a hospital. Without a hospital in your area? Although at that time, (Unintelligible) Hospital, which was built during BMI days was taken over by this Catholic order who operated the same as they operate today. So actually, we did have a hospital eight miles from it. It's just one of those— So you did have relatively close medical service? Much closer than Las Vegas. I see, you didn't have to come all the way to Las Vegas. All the way to Las Vegas. (Unintelligible) Yes, that is true. Then the townspeople got together and we decided that we should have a hospital. So we, this again shows you what a small town can do if you have a good idea. You can sell it and get together, held various fundraising events and pushed and begged and pleaded, and finally we got enough money to take the hospital over from the government. Again, I don't have all the details on it, again it's docking, but anyways, it was ours. The town, we set ourselves up as a corporation and the townspeople operated the hospital. The board was elected from the various fraternal and civic groups in the town, the maintenance was taken care of by the various civic organizations there, each being assigned to a certain (unintelligible) of the hospital to take care of. I belong to one fraternal order whose job was to take care of the surgery. And we would periodically find out what they needed and we would budget and we would budget it in our funds and would find it when we could. And it worked out very successfully. Did you have any problems finding doctors? And nurses to staff it? UNLV University Libraries Joe Lappin 21 No, at that time, we had several very fine doctors in Boulder City. We have always been blessed with good doctors, and nurses. We had no problems. But finally the building became so old, and decrepit that they were getting a little noise from the state board that ruled on hospital buildings and whether they're up to standard or not. So they built an addition and at that time, they accumulated enough money, and they built the addition onto the old hospital. Well this lasted for seven or eight, perhaps ten years, and the old part of the building was that we couldn't--it was so old and the maintenance was getting so expensive, that it wasn't feasible to stay there any longer. So again, we raised money as best we could and finally, we got a new hospital down at that (unintelligible) this has been built almost ten years ago. And many of the Las Vegas members are doctors on staff. It's, I met a patient there, a very fine and care, but we don't compare to the enormous hospitals that we have in Las Vegas. For a small town, it is far above average. What kind of Downtown buildings did you have in the early days? Were they those kind of one story structures, or? Yes, they were. They were. I'm ima