Transcript of interview with Irwin Kishner by Claytee D. White, September 10, 2013

i AN INTERVIEW WITH IRWIN KISHNER An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ?Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV ? University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Amanda Hammar iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader?s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Irwin Kishner (1933 ? 2017) was a noted real estate developer, attorney and longtime community leader. In this oral history interview conducted in 2013, he briefly shares his childhood growing up Jewish in Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn, New York. He often speaks of himself in the third person, as he brings to life his roots, his family?s move to Miami where he graduated from high school and the tale of his relocation to Las Vegas to work with his uncles Herman and Maury Kishner. He describes his entrance to Las Vegas as that of a bon vivant. And truly, Irwin, fell in love with the city from the moment he arrived in 1960. Irwin was a graduate of University of Florida (1954) and University of Miami Law School (1958). Both his daughters, Sharon and Joanna, were born in Las Vegas and he reminisces about becoming a Jewish bachelor father to them. In June 2013, shortly before this interview, Irwin celebrated his 80th birthday. He was a proud father, grandfather and energetic businessman who left an indelible mark on everyone he knew. As a developer, he was known for the Somerset Apartments, Somerset House Motel, Somerset Gardens apartment complex, and the Somerset Shopping Center. He enjoyed reflecting on the many community organizations he dedicated himself to, from the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority to Opportunity Village to the original Las Vegas Rotary Club to the Community Concert Association?and that?s just to mention a few. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Irwin Kishner September 10, 2013 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Claytee D. White Preface?????????????????????????????..?????..iv Talks about his early life in Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn, New York; his father was in building and development business, multifamily and shopping center properties. Explains that his father emigrated from Poland at age three; his father?s brothers Herman and Irving; family move to Florida in 1946. Details about his youth in Miami; graduated Miami Beach High School in 1950; his older brother Martin who became a psychiatrist and died in 1952, same year as their father???????????????????????????.???????.1 ? 3 Story of his parents? first visit to Las Vegas to see Herman Kishner (his uncle) and Maury Kishner (great uncle, married to Millie Greenspun). Mentions family friend Jackie Fields, lightweight boxing champion; dating a ?Copa gal? and becoming a ?bon vivant? and ?stage door Johnny? of Las Vegas in the early 1960s; seeing El Rancho (owned by Beldon Katleman) burning. Describes his Jewishness ? dated different religions, became a bar mitzvah; how he came to marry Ellen Neafsay, a teacher and mother of his daughters Sharon and Joanna; talks about daughters careers, Joanna a judge and Sharon a lawyer; his bitter divorce and custody dispute in 1968; raising his daughters as a ?Jewish bachelor?; pride in grandchildren.?????????????..4 ? 10 Talks about 80th birthday celebration in June at Spanish Trails Country Club; surprise gift of a lavish carriage and motorcycle. Details about starting his law career in Florida for two years, mortgage company client and attempts to quit and finally relocates to Las Vegas where his uncles live in 1960 and becomes the developer of Gold Key Motel; mentions Manaka Motel, Blair House, Gold Key Shopping Center, partner Ted Golden?all part of his early developer career; mentions El Morocco, Del Monte, Edelman, selling property to Sands, Al Sachs, Frank Rosenthal and buying it back, Convention Center Drive; Somerset motel, shopping center and apartments; area of Las Vegas Blvd. near Peppermill restaurant, Triple Five developers, Kishner Drive?????????????????????????????????..10 ? 16 Explains when he joined Rotary Club (1968); who the active members included, including Harold Boyer. Talks about Junior Chamber of Commerce, Phil Engle his accountant, Alex Shoofey, Jim Corey; mentions national and international cautious feelings toward Las Vegas while involved with the JCC. Highlights the phenomenal growth of Las Vegas population of the 1960s to 80,000 people. Rotary International convention finally comes to Las Vegas 1986; Convention Authority Board. Granddaughter Rise?s note to her mother about him; his desire to provide a ?heritage? for his family; Bob Fisher of Nevada Broadcasters Association????????????.16 ? 20 vi Tells about Utah-Nevada Hotel Association; co-founder of Nevada Hotel and Lodging Association; named Hotelier of the Year. Talks about 1962 construction of Somerset House Motel; description of the motel; keeping the motel full occupancy during a hotel recession in the 1980s; relationship with Test Site. Involved cousins in management of Somerset House apartments; describes himself as not a ?suit?; headquarters on Convention Center Drive since 1966.?.21 ? 23 Explains the background of his Community Concerts Association involvement, mother?s singing talent and her influence on him and his brother during their childhood in New York; Uncle Maury was president of CCA; Vanda series; Las Vegas High School was venue; supporter with businessman Wing Fong of the building of Judy Bayley Theatre. Antonio Morelli, community outreach with children. Talks about where he first lived, Blair House, building apartments, home on Mason Avenue in McNeil area, describes neighborhood; Tom Wiesner; Lorraine and Blackie Hunt?????????????????????????????????..24 ? 28 Conversation about Kell Houssels, Jr.; Nancy Houssels; Charlotte Hill and Friends of Channel 10; Mel Exber; United Way; Drug Abuse Council. Talks about changes in downtown Las Vegas, Lady Luck, Don Snyder, Fremont Street Experience. Mentions Herb Stout, Jack Libby, Convention Center, Las Vegas Authority Board, Cashman Center, Oscar Goodman, Tony Hsieh. One of first buildings built by his uncle Maury was Midtowner, on fringe of downtown; Four Queens and Jeanne Hood; Steve Wynn and Golden Nugget. Worked to bring movies on location to Las Vegas, including Casino; Tourism Commission for the state???????.?..29 ? 33 More about the Rotary; Ed Kadman; international initiatives. Opportunity Village; Earle brothers; Kenny Guinn; Hank Greenspun; John S. Park neighborhood; Thalia Dondero; Myrna Williams; more about daughters???????????????????????????34 ? 39 vii 1 Today is September 10th, 2013. I am in Las Vegas. My name is Claytee White and I am with?he is going to spell his name and pronounce it correctly. My name is Irwin Kishner, I-R-W-I-N; K-I-S-H-N-E-R. Wonderful. Thank you so much. I'd like to get started with your early life. If you could tell me where you grew up, what the family was like and what your parents did for a living? I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, an area known as Brighton Beach, which at this time in history is infamous for the so-called Russian infiltration. When I lived there they were not there. Now the Russian Mafia is very solidly interest; it's a matter of public knowledge, but it's not actually the area of Brighton Beach that I grew up in. My mother [Ida Kishner] and father [Samuel Louis Kishner]...my father had always been, except for his younger, younger years, in the building and development business, some of it with family. They built commercials sometimes. Initially probably what we call multifamily housing or, since, apartment buildings. They really never varied from that; they really never, as far as I know, did commercial property like shopping centers or anything else. But they built all over Brooklyn in different things. My father before the, quote, depression was very, very successful. And my mother had a childhood...she was born in Coney Island. My father came over, I think he was about three years old, from a place called Baranovich, Poland, which is now Russian, and he came over by himself, literally. He then lived with an aunt and uncle. They managed by scraping and saving to bring over his younger brother, Herman, who featured very strongly in my future development because he was a person I came out to Las Vegas to work with and for. So that was my father's younger brother. His younger brother than that was Irving Kishner, who remained and helped to manage the buildings and the things that my father built, in Brighton 2 Beach. Because of medical reasons, we moved down in 1946 to Miami Beach, Florida. My father had a heart condition and every winter he had to go by himself down to Florida to avoid the winter weather. One time I'll never forget; I think it was probably 1942. I was on a train. It was after the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. It may have been '43; I say '42, probably '42. Riding on a train on the Seaboard Railway or Florida East Coast?I don't know which?from New York to Florida, and all up and down. We sat up the whole trip and the cars were all filled with airmen and all I could hear was (the tune), ?Off we go into the wild blue yonder, climbing high into the sun.? We stayed at Miami Beach. In fact, our hotel was right on Collins Avenue. Again, my father was there really for recuperative purposes. So every morning, I don't know, maybe five or six o'clock in the morning, they would come marching by singing, ?Off we go into the wild blue yonder.? And there were anti-aircraft guns on the beach and it was quite an experience for a child who was, let's say at that time, oh, about nine years old. Then I had a future aunt, who she was not an aunt at the time, became stationed there and she was in the U.S. Army Nurses Corps and she was a second lieuie [lieutenant.] And she had this beautiful cream outfit, cap and jacket. And everywhere we went they would be saluting her. And, oh, this nine-year-old, he felt he was on top of the world. This was my background: I went to it was called Ida M. Fisher Junior High School and then they only went up to the ninth grade. And I had gone up to let's say...because of my proclivity I had skipped a grade in New York and when I came down there I automatically went to the ninth grade; I had made up a year. Then from there we transferred right into an adjacent building called Miami Beach Senior High, which is where I graduated from in 1950. 3 Then I matriculated, against my mother's strong protests, a wonderful Jewish mother she was, and I was going to leave home and her baby was going to abandon her. But this baby frankly knew what his destiny was. He knew he had to get out from the, quote, wonderful sheltered life he lived. His brother had proceeded him. My brother Martin was seven and a half years older than I and was a star athlete in high school, very independent, but very protective about his younger brother Irwin. In fact, when the bullies beat Irwin up, who always would take on the biggest, Martin would come to the rescue and pull them off of him. Martin was probably one of the dearest loving persons alive. Martin?I will digress a moment?went on to college at the University of Cincinnati. Then he decided he wanted to medical school. At that time, it was pretty difficult to get into, various reasons which I won't go into, some of which are obvious. So he ended up going to Wallisellen, Switzerland and began medical school there. He graduated there, did a residency in Paris, came back to New York, which is our original birthplace, and ended up working as a psychiatrist, which he had the credentials, and actually he worked with drug-addicted personages in the roughest sections of New York you could find. But he was dedicated and this is what his lifestyle was, basically speaking. In many, many ways it was sorrowful because he didn't live the life that his brother wanted him to achieve. My goals, his were different than them basically speaking. He survived there as a bachelor for many years. He had been involved with somebody in Switzerland, but evidently he abandoned that life when my father died and came home and I convinced him that he had to stay home, very seriously, at that age, and that was in 1952. Marty stayed there until his death, which was at the age of?I'm sorry; it was 1952 my father died. And Marty died about the same time. He had severe diabetes and unfortunately had what I call an oral history of self-destruction, of eating, which is not exactly unusual. As 4 wonderful as he was a psychiatrist to everybody else, I would say this without being negative about him because I loved him very dearly, he was self-destructive. So he died at the age of 52. My father, because of the genetic history of heart conditions which we have in our family, which I have had since, passed away at 55. He had taken my mother west. She had never been west of Florida. He drove out to Las Vegas. The family was here; my uncle Herman was here, another grand-uncle Maury Kishner was here and had established themselves and started building and development. In fact, Maury Kishner was very active. He was the first president of Community Concert Association, which I follow through years later, and he was very much into the arts. He was also an artist. He married Millie Greenspun, Hank Greenspun's sister. So it was quite a history as far as when I first came here as a young bachelor who knew it all and found out he knew from nothing. And young Irwin Kishner, as smart as he thought he was, became a bon vivant. In fact, this is kind of a sidelight, but I think it's interesting. There was a gentleman who used to be the lightweight champion of the world, Jackie Fields, who lived here and worked at a hotel, the Sands Hotel in fact. My family was very close with him. Well, Jackie fixed me up with what I'll call a Copa gal. She was in the line at the Sands Hotel and Margie Grater from Brooklyn, New York, who was a policeman's daughter who never knew what (the) daughter did, was quite a wonderful, really, really, a wonderful down-to-earth girl. In fact, people would see us at the Fremont Theatre or the El Portal downtown on a Saturday night and there was Irwin Kishner with Margie Grater, wearing a beehive, this very attractive blond-haired person saying, How did Kishner ever end up like that? These were stories that were unbelievable acts because I used to go sometimes to Los Angeles and she knew the whole crowd because before she came to 5 Las Vegas she originally had been a Rockette in New York. Then she was hired with the first choral line at the Tropicana; Trop had the Folies Berg?re. Then things fell apart quite a bit; she had been involved with somebody with a nefarious character background, without getting into it, who boosted her career in the movies. In fact, in the movie Dillinger she is the one who comes walking slowly down the staircase. And she also played in Some Like It Hot; she was the trumpet player. Here is Irwin Kishner, this nice young Jewish boy from Brooklyn, New York involved in a lifestyle he never had been in. Not stupid, not naive, but kind of took full advantage of whatever was going on. In fact, went to Los Angeles one time, had dinner with George Raft. I can remember the whole Hollywood scene. Not that involved, but just she wanted to go back and visit friends, et cetera. So Irwin would always?not fly; couldn't afford it?would drive. And that was my early life in 1960-61. So was that exciting? Very exciting in a sense, but I never thought...I was called a ?Stage Door Johnny.? The first show was over about nine o'clock. I'm waiting at the stage, literally. We go to the Strip to have dinner. And Lord help me, I can't remember the Italian restaurant; everybody knew it; I can't think of its name. Everybody was there. Have dinner. She'd go back to work. Irwin would go home and take a nap. It would be about one o'clock; she had to stay in the lounge; it was like a hostess; it was just part of the routine. Then Irwin would be there and spend some time with her, et cetera. In fact, one very interesting thing. A lot of these people who would not show other people would go up to Mount Charleston, which had an ice skating rink, after their shows. So one thirty in the morning or something else...I was up there with her, I don't know, it was a 6 Friday, Saturday, whatever it was, I had gone up with her. We come driving down about four o'clock in the morning or something and we're coming down on Sahara. We see this huge plume of smoke. And I thought it was an incinerator or something. No. It was the El Rancho Vegas on fire, burning down, the one that was built by Beldon Katleman, the first literally, I think, gaming institution on the so-called Strip, which was actually north of Sahara and it was right on the corner of Sahara and Las Vegas Boulevard. So I say I had many envisions to look back and think about it. And Margie and I just became good friends. She went on tour somewhere else. I had been involved with a young lady at the University of Florida for many years. Her name was Ellen Neafsay, a wonderful young Irish girl with an Irish background, father from New York? Here was a nice Jewish boy coming into a background, which always I did?I'm not bragging about it; I never thought in terms of religion, this one or that one. Seriously, I was involved with every kind of person whatsoever. Yet, I did get Bar Mitzvahed. I went forward with it; it was just training basically speaking. I remained Jewish. But many, the majority of my friends were probably non-Jewish. Well, Ellen went off, before I moved to Nevada, to Europe as some kind of a hostess with the?I can't think of what they were called then; they serviced?USO, and she was there for about a year in Germany, came back and whatever like that. We kind of reunited, bonded. I brought her out here on a trip. And then I got her a teaching job; she decided to move out here. I never thought I would marry. But then after two years, without going into all the details and the background, I ended up getting married. And we then had in 1963 and '64 two children. The first one Sharon Nell Kishner, Nell after Ellen's mother. And then Joanna Sue, Sue was a euphemism for Samuel, which you can do to Jewish women (namings). So Joanna was named 7 after Ellen's father, John; Sue was after my grandmother, basically speaking in the sense?no, after my father's, Samuel. So we had Sharon Nell Kishner and Joanna Sue Kishner. Now, a lit bit of history right now. Joanna now is currently a district court judge in Las Vegas, which she did on her own. She kept her maiden name even when she got married. Sharon went on?and I went with her to get to the school?and she went to actually Santa Barbara. Joanna actually went to Claremont in California. She could have?well, she was on a wait list for Stanford. She was magna cum laude, summa cum laude, et cetera, et cetera; that was Joanna. Sharon was not stupid, but Sharon never reached that intellectual level at that time. So Sharon enrolled in University of Utah because they had a program in psychology, which she felt there were only three places?Stanford, Arizona and Utah. She enrolled there. Then I get a call one day?She said, Dad, I've just been accepted to work on my master's in psychology, but I want to go to law school. I said, Sharon, I love you dearly. I do not in any way doubt your ability, intellect, but that is one rough go. Having gone to law school myself, I know what it's like. And the whole thing. Dad, I want to do it. So as the father I was, I said fine. And Sharon ended up graduating?got her master's in psychology and she also got her law degree. What I failed to mention is that there was a bitter, let's say, bitter divorce situation, which began I believe in 1968, and I fought for custody, which had gone on for two years. Long story short, we ended up with joint custody, without getting into it. Several years later the children just walked out and came to live with me. I raised both girls by myself, which was not braggadocios because here is a young, still young, Jewish bachelor, not knowing the first thing about women. Never had any sisters or anything else like that. And learn how to brush hair in the morning. Learned how to pack lunches. Here it was going on. I had to raise two 8 just-about-approaching teenagers with all the emotions and everything else like that. Everybody I knew said, God, you're not that lucky because two sons to raise is much easier than two girls. And they were only about a year-plus apart. So that made it even more interesting. And totally different personalities. But God bless, and Joanna's academic career was really very wonderful. She had scholarships all the way through. Sharon maintained a very good average, but she didn't reach the level. But Sharon was a, quote, doer; she never gave up on anything. That's how she accomplished. Then Sharon went on in Salt Lake to become assistant attorney general. She became a clerk to the justice of the Supreme Court. She then decided to go to the District Attorney's Office for ten years, became a junior?what is called?I can't even think of what they call that?assistant district attorney, whatever, in the juvenile division because Sharon was dedicated to children, her whole life, in every way. So she became a children's advocate even though she was a professional representing district attorney, which is interesting enough because from there she ended up becoming what's called a child advocate, a guardian ad litem, which is appointed by the court. She works for the state to represent the interests of children, primarily abused children who went through every kind of?pardon the expression?hell you could go through. But this was Sharon. Sharon was very dedicated. And during her lifetime she found out she could not have?she married a psychologist and could not have children. So they adopted a girl who was not born here from a strict Mormon family who narrowed it down to three people. Lo and behold, unbelievably they picked the Jewish?he was not Jewish; he was Christian, but whatever?let's say Sharon had a Jewish home, and picked them to raise this baby. So she was there on the doorstep when the baby was born. And that was Rachel Kishner Wale. Then later on my daughter ended up getting divorced. 9 And post-divorce because of her contacts with the social welfare and everything else and she was very, very highly thought of, fantastically, she ended up with a baby, who was not born yet who was from a childhood of a Mexican mother, I believe, and Indian father. Had all kinds of problems I'm not going to even enumerate and for six months the baby was kept in the hospital. Well, her name was Rise, R-I-S-E, Rise Kishner, who now is a brilliant student in some private school down by some farm that's probably 80 percent foreign students. She just started attending last year. Came out of her shell and is doing wonderfully. Rachel finished high school, but never got to college. She's working on going to community college. So there was the two siblings from my daughter Sharon. Joanna, again had a problem with conceiving. But because of my strong connections with UCLA?I won't say it's braggadocios, but I really fell into it and became very close to the person who was chief of medicine, who became my doctor after my bypass surgery. Through different events and different things like that?what is it called, in vitro? I can't think of it. In vitro. Oh, in vitro fertilization, uh-huh. In vitro. So Joanna became a mother-to-be and gave birth to my wonderful, wonderful grandson, Joshua Alexander Kishner, who is now truthfully I can say this is braggadocios and I will brag, he's in the top 10 percent in the country Johns Hopkins listings top SAT, top everything else. And he's not a nerd. He plays a saxophone, just starting out in the marching band at Clark High School, where both of them went to. In fact, he went to the?I'll think of the name in a second, public schools that they went to, which became a Modem, both schools are now Modem schools. When they went they were not. Modem meaning the accelerated learning type of thing called Modem actually. He's also, quote, in charge of robotics program. Came to my Rotary club and 10 gave a demonstration. I'm bragging about him because he's a down-to-earth kid, no ego or nothing else. His father knew how to balance him, has kept him active in athletics. He's a marathon runner, has run. He played a little basketball, which was I call an Abbott and Costello movie to watch him on the basketball court. I'm not knocking my grandson; he tried, he tried very hard. He plays golf. All around. Jillian was adopted because Joanna could not have any further children. So that was my fourth grandchild, fourth granddaughter. And she has got accomplishments, different problems, but have overcome pretty much. She's a gymnast and artistic. In fact, there's a picture?well, you can see the family pictures here. I guess so. And that's Jeanie over there. And the rest of it is my family. Oh, that's great. That's Jeanie's birthday. These are my two daughters at a very young age. These were not put up for you for show and tell. Believe me, they're here 365 days a year, these same pictures. They're all over. And the kids when they're very young are over there. Oh, that's great. We're going to have one scanned for me. Well, whatever. I've got a wonderful photographer that does. I just had an 80th birthday June 7 and I had actually 94 people there?it should have been a hundred?people you would know. I didn't invite people who were just particularly big in the community; I invited friends who I've known over the years. So where did you have your party? The party was at Spanish Trails Country Club. It was a fabulous event. I mean people are still talking about it. I'm not being funny, but I did not enjoy myself. This is not being negative. No, I did not enjoy myself. I was so busy wanting to make sure that everything went smoothly. I 11 had two young men come over, one was already living with us, part-time actor and a singer. He's in the top whatever you call it, singing DJ records in Great Britain. He's also an actor. There's a picture?I should have dragged these out; she took them away; I'd show them to you. He came over from Los Angeles. His younger brother was visiting him. And I walk out of Mastrioni's restaurant?this was the post-birthday party the next day that I held for people from out of town, 14 people at Mastrioni's. Well, they wouldn't let me go out the doors, just every stall. And I kept seeing the younger brother on the phone. I walk out. Picture in your mind the queen's carriage in England. I mean I'll show you pictures. Actually, there's only twelve of them in the world. They had hired this. It came in a truck. That's why he kept calling, to see where the truck was, nine hours to get here. So the truck and a humungous motorcycle, which pulled it, were in that truck. And the two hostesses, I guess, rode with the driver. I walk out and all my guests, even the restaurant people, were there in a semicircle as I walked towards it and I see this magnificent carriage. This was their birthday present to me. I love it. It was something like Alice in Wonderland. I'm very serious. It's for real. I have the pictures and everything else. They drove us from that restaurant. And Sharon, my daughter, jumped in. From my restaurant where I was at to Jeanne's [Jeanne Greenawalt] house, which is in Summerlin. I'm being pulled by this motorcycle. People are going I wonder what's going on here? So Irwin had?I won't say it's a grand finale; I hope to have another one. Do you know Tommy Thomas? I have no idea. Parry Thomas's son, whatever. I bring it up for this reason. He keeps telling me every Thursday at Rotary, he says, we had a wonderful time at your 80th; now, what are you planning for your 12 85th? You have to have another party. I'm serious. Oh, that's great. So during my career, as I say, I started out coming here in 1960. I practiced law for two years in Florida and then the bottom kind of fell out. I was in partnership with somebody (indiscernible) attorney. He went back to work with his father. I went into practice for two years with an attorney who was very successful, very young, but had the largest client, what's called Metropolitan Mortgage Company, the largest second mortgage company in the Southeast. I was not his clerk; I was an attorney. He was very good and the whole thing. I had a beautiful future. But I'll tell you in truth; it became a drudge. I was sitting in an office doing abstracts and the whole thing. To keep me happy?his clients had some investments that had some legal problems. So Irwin ended up as a trial litigator who didn't know the first thing about (indiscernible) was so hard to get out of the routine of having to go (indiscernible)?and that didn't happen often?to dispossess a poor widow who couldn't keep her mortgage payments up. I had to be there with the server. That only happened a few times. But it turned me off. I say this is not a lifestyle I want. So two years?every time I tried to quit, he kept raising me. I became very close with his family. I baby-sit. I'd go out for dinner. And it broke my heart, but I actually had and accident on the way to Cypress Gardens (indiscernible) and some car hit us. Gave me an awakening. I said this is not for me. The secretary and I, we set a weekend and moved all my stuff out. I went back to the office on Monday. I said, Stan?his name is Stanley Speil?I says. I can't do it. He wished me the best of luck. We stayed friends. I got a job with a firm downtown and then practiced law. This was with this attorney?I said he handled the second mortgage and did very, very well. 13 Then I got to the point of where it was enough. I wasn't somebody who jumped from a position. I was raised in a very conservative background. But this was something that wasn't my lifestyle. So I just wrote my uncle out here in Las Vegas and said?I didn't ask, not a nice person, but I said I'm coming, in 1960. Okay, great. So I didn't know what to do. I got out here. I had a grand uncle, who was actually the same age as my uncle, but it was his uncle, Maury Kishner, who I told you started the community concerts. He put me to work to build the Gold Key Motel. You haven't been here that long, I think. No. Where is the Gold Key? Gold Key was right at the intersection?it was Manaka Motel at Desert Inn, which the county took over and built the whole freeway, the expressway?not the freeway, but the expressway. Gold Key Shopping Center is there, which I helped start to build. That's right on the Strip, of course, where the start of the Frontier was and the Stardust. From old Convention Center Drive, the Gold Key is right on that northeast corner. Right next to it on the other side of Desert Inn was the Manaka, which was built before I got here, by then, and right next to that we had the Gold Key. So I built that and developed it. My family before had built the original Blair House, which we had a small interest in, which is still on Desert Inn Road. It's been remodeled. And I had an interest there with my mother and my brother. So did you run either of these? Did you actually do the day-to-day operation of either one?