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Transcript of interview with Mike, Fred, & John Pinjuv by Barbara Tabach, May 13, 2014

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2014-05-13
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Mike Pinjuv sired one of Las Vegas’s early families after arriving in 1917. Mike Pinjuv arrived in Las Vegas via the Union Pacific Railroad and brought Ivan Pinjuv and his family to town (although Mike’s sons do not know the familial relation between the two men). Mike and his wife, Frances Malner, raised six sons and two daughters to adulthood through World War 1, the Great Depression, and World War II. The oldest five brothers attended Las Vegas High School, while Fred, the youngest brother, and the two sisters attended Rancho High School. In this interview, their three younger sons recall how they, their parents, and their siblings navigated the social and physical changes in the Las Vegas landscape. Over the near century that the Pinjuv family has lived in Las Vegas its members have contributed to the city in countless ways. In the early years Mike owned a gas station and a grocery store and worked several jobs before going to Nellis Air Force Base as a civilian. Of the Pinjuv sons

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Pinjuv, Mike, Fred, & John Interview, 2014 May 13. OH-02078. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections & Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.

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AN INTERVIEW WITH MIKE, FRED, AND JOHN PINJUV An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach West Charleston Neighborhoods: An Oral History Project of Ward 1 Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©The West Charleston Neighborhoods: An Oral History Project of Ward 1 University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Managers: Claytee D. White, Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Editors: Stefani Evans, Maggie Lopes, Barbara Tabach Interviewers: Claytee D. White, Barbara Tabach, Shirley Emerson, Lois Goodall, Judy Harrell, Anna Huddleston, Linda McSweeney, Wendy Starkweather iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iv PREFACE From left, John (holding glasses), Fred, and Mike Pinjuv Mike Pinjuv sired one of Las Vegas’s early families after arriving in 1917. Mike Pinjuv arrived in Las Vegas via the Union Pacific Railroad and brought Ivan Pinjuv and his family to town (although Mike’s sons do not know the familial relation between the two men). Mike and his wife, Frances Malner, raised six sons and two daughters to adulthood through World War 1, the Great Depression, and World War II. The oldest five brothers attended Las Vegas High School, while Fred, the youngest brother, and the two sisters attended Rancho High School. In this interview, their three younger sons recall how they, their parents, and their siblings navigated the social and physical changes in the Las Vegas landscape. Over the near century that the Pinjuv family has lived in Las Vegas its members have contributed to the city in countless ways. In the early years Mike owned a gas station and a grocery store and worked several jobs before going to Nellis Air Force Base as a civilian. Of the Pinjuv sons, Charlie was Las Vegas’s first motorcycle patrolman; Wally co-owned P and C Construction Company and built UNLV’s Maude Frazier Hall; Eddie spent 52 years at the telephone company from the days it was privately owned; John owns Las Vegas Sheet Metal; Mike spent his career with State Farm Insurance Company; and after being drafted by the Boston Red Sox (and then the U.S. military) Fred became a career Air Force man who served in Vietnam and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel. The six brothers also had two younger sisters, Evanna “Wonie,” and Angelina “Angie.” As adults the Pinjuv sons moved to the West Charleston area. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Mike, Fred, and John Pinjuv May 13, 2014 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface…………………………………………………………………………………………..iv Pinjuv brothers introduce themselves and describe their parents, both Slavic immigrants from the Austro-Hungarian Empire: father Mike, a Union Pacific Railroad worker, and mother, Francis Malner; also brothers Charles, Edward, and Walter and sisters Evanna “Wonie” and Angelina “Angie”……………………………………………………………………………………...…1-5 Describe how the oldest five brothers fought in World War II; recall the Pinjuv family home in a railroad house on Third Street until 1921, when their father built a house of vertical railroad ties and cement on Ogden Street between Seventh and Eighth Streets; and reminisce about how their father rigged a swamp cooler and grew apples, peaches, apricots, cherries, and alfalfa.….….6-11 Recall maternal uncle, Joe Malner, Mikulich families, and Ivan Pinjuv family (no known relation); describe father’s businesses, Nevada Oil Company and a grocery store………….11-16 Remember their parents feeding people during the Great Depression; describe “Pop” Simon’s Techatticup Mine; talk about where they (the brothers) lived with their families over the years and where their children went to school; describe overnight campouts to watch Boulder Dam workers divert the Colorado River…………………………………………………………...16-20 Describe their father’s work after closing the grocery store; recall their first jobs and employers. Talk about brother Charlie hating school and becoming the first motorcycle policeman in Las Vegas; brother Eddie working at the telephone company 52 years, from the days when it was privately held; and brother Wally, who co-owned P and C Construction Company and built UNLV’s Maude Frazier Hall…………………………………………………………………20-24 Mike and John recall their schooling at Fifth Street School and Las Vegas High School, where Maude Frazier was “The Warden” and Coach Calhoun kept everyone in line, and talk about teen entertainment at boxing matches and the city-owned Wildcat Lair…………………………25-30 Talk about ways that Las Vegas has changed: land, medical care, and the Mob……………30-35 Describe racial atmosphere in Las Vegas, their careers, and nuclear tests………………….36-40 Recall the Ivan Pinjuv family; John discusses serving on the Krupp diamond theft jury and talks about the Krupp Ranch; Mike recalls being Nevada’s second registered jeweler and worked as a vi watch inspector for M. J. Christensen; Mike and John remember a train trip with their father to Kansas City………………………………………………………………………………….41-45 Remember early air travel and McCarran Field; Fred recalls being drafted by the Boston Red Sox out of college and immediately being drafted by the military, his subsequent Vietnam service, Air Force career, and retirement as a Lieutenant Colonel; brothers remember their father’s death………………………………………………………………………………..45-49 Describe early doctors and hospitals; recall meeting their wives, and remember their military service………………………………………………………………………………………50-58 Talk about Las Vegas infrastructure in their youth and Fred’s reasons for returning to his home town……………………………………………………………………………………..…..58-60 Index………………………………………………………………………………………...61-63 vii viii ix This is Barbara Tabach. Today is May 13th, 2014. I'm sitting in the office of Mike Pinjuv. Is it Pinjuv [pronouncing]? MIKE: Yes. Spell that last name for us. P-I-N-J-U-V. And with us are two of your brothers. You want to introduce yourself? FRED: Fred. Fred, okay. JOHN: And I am John. And John. Yes, ma'am. And just for the record, Mike is 89, almost 90; Freddie is 79; and John is 91. Am I correct you were all born here? Yes, ma'am. We had three other brothers who died older. They were all born here. My brother Charlie, the oldest one, was born in 1918 in Las Vegas. Wow. 1918. Let's start back about your parents. Tell me what you know about how they met and how they got here. Do you know how they met? I don't. That's one thing we don't know. Mike and I have talked about it. Dad was working for the UP railroad. The which railroad? Union Pacific. And mother was in Kansas City, Kansas. How those two got together we never 2 knew. I've talked with Mike about it. I've always been going to ask him, never did. But she came over as a child of three and was in Alabama and her dad [[--?--] Malner] died and her mother was a tough old coot and— Oh, she was. —and put her to work. She cooked for a lumber camp of 45 men at ten years of age and that was her life. My aunt used to tell me that it was thank God for Francis. That was my mother. She got up and got the children dressed and fed and went to school and then she woke her mother and they went to work. I don't know how the two met. We really don't know. But I thought maybe...he went to Kansas a couple of times. (Indiscernible/2:26) people there (in Los Angeles). So I'm assuming that they probably met somehow. And he brought her out here in 1917 and my older brother Charles was born in 1918 and that started a tribe. Tell the background of how your dad got here. Great guy. Great guy? He was a great guy. Oh, that's good to hear. You've got to stop and realize here is a guy [Mike Pinjuv, our father]that came over, never spoke a word of English, never went to school a day in his life. And that guy worked from Ellis Island clear across the country to Washington and then down to Southern California. Then he came up here with the railroad in 1917, we think. But that guy worked. He never had a nickel given to him by welfare or anything. I filled out his papers, later life; after he lost the grocery store, he went to work out at Nellis [Air Force Base] as maintenance and I filled out civil service papers. 3 He tells this story, and I've told it a hundred times, he was working in St. Louis, Missouri, and a guy got to know him. So he said, Mike, if you'll come to work for me, I'll pay you ten cents an hour. They worked 12 hours a day for a dollar a day. And I laughed. I said, “Well, you quit for 20 cents?” And he says, “Absolutely, son.” He said, “You could go downtown St. Louis in the finest place in town and buy a meal for 25 cents.” And that's hard labor. That really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? So things have changed. But he came here. He came here from Croatia, you said? Yes, from Croatia, Yugoslavia at that time. Well, both folks were born actually in Austria-Hungary before World War I. They broke up the— Then it became Yugoslavia and then Croatia. Yeah, our folks were from what is now Croatia. Okay, so they both were from Yugoslavia, Croatia. And they didn't know one another over there. They were both from Austria-Hungarian Empire. There was no Yugoslavia. There was no Croatia. There was no Serbia. Then it broke up after the war. They originally broke up and it's now Croatia and Serbia. Now, did he know somebody in California that worked for the railroad or any reason that he ended up in California? No. He just worked across with the railroad. He came down from the state of Washington, Seattle area, up there. He tells the story about—I remember Dad telling me because I laughed at him. They were working putting in hardwood floors in the railroad cars. He said it was 4 beautiful lumber. Of course, this is in Washington. He said they heard a bunch of cussing. There two who worked the crew, two. And the superintendent was there and they heard a bunch of cussing. So they went over to the next car and this big Swedish guy was there. (5:48) He says I cut that—excuse my expression—S-O-B off three times and it's still too short. And Dad says the guy fired him. Yeah, I recently found out through Joe Thomson, who is a historian photographer—anyway, he found some pictures when my mom and dad lived in one of the railroad houses on Third Street. Let's see. Charlie and Eddie—wasn't Wally born on— Yeah. Okay. The three of them were born in a railroad house. According to Joe, which is something I bet you didn't know, Dad must have been working in the boiler somehow because only the—what should I say?—upper echelon of the workmen got a house. That's the way they had the house, because of his job. Oh, I didn't know that. That's where, I guess, he learned to be a plumber. But I just found that out. Yeah, he did odds and ends. He was a remarkable guy. He found a picture. I had a copy of it. I don't know what I've done with it. It was taken in front of that railroad house on Third Street. They have moved a couple of those, incidentally, down to the [Las Vegas] Springs Preserve and renovated them, but I understand they're not going to look very much like they did originally. But they had three or four of them down there. How will they look differently, do you think? Well, the government refurbished them. I'll answer you that way. That's all I can tell you. So it will be a little more polished than what they might have been back then? 5 I don't know. But Joe, like I say, has been over there checking on it. He works for himself and does historical work. I know who Joe is, yeah. But he said they will not look exactly like they did. I had a picture—I don't know where it is—of Mom and my brother Charlie and Eddie in a baby carriage out in front of that house that I've got somewhere. I know I have. You said there were three brothers older than you, John? Yes, ma'am. And what were their names? Charles, Edward and Wally, Walter. Actually, (08:00). What was Eddie's name? Abel? Yeah, Abel. And Charlie was (08:06), was it? Yeah. But Charles, Eddie and Wally, three boys. And then you had two sisters, too? Evanna and—my mother had five boys and then there was a period of time where—Angie is about eight or nine years younger than you—she had a girl, a boy and a girl. She had that family while all of us were in the service. Charles and I never went overseas, but Mike and Eddie and Wally did. And he's talking about the Second World War. He didn't add that. We were all drafted into that. Charles didn't last (8:40) and Mike got a medical discharge out of Salt Lake. And Eddie and Wally and Mike went overseas. Walter was in the South Pacific in the navy, and Mike and Eddie were in the army. Eddie went clear through France and then he came 6 out at La Jolla, I think it was. They were all celebrating. They were going through the Panama Canal and they thought they were coming home to San Francisco and they came through the Panama Canal, which the Philippines had finished the war. And Walter was in the South Pacific. This one I don't have covered. So I don't know. You might want to make a copy of that. That's the five of us after we came home. Oh. This is the five [older] brothers? Yeah, that were in the service. When Eddie come home—or who was it? In the service it's the Second World War. They don't put stories out right because I retired from the military. 7 When does Eddie come home? Forty-five? Forty-six? No. It must have been '46 because I got home December 31st of '45, I'll never forget it, New Year's Eve. So let's talk a little bit about before the service. Let's talk about when you were growing up. Your family lived in the railroad house on Third Street. Originally, yeah. Originally. And then do you remember about what year or how old you were when they moved from there and where they moved? Well, Dad built a building originally in 1921. And I was born in '23 [1923]. It was built right on the alley. It was between Seventh [Street] and Eighth Street on Ogden Street, a block off of Fremont [Street]. We built that and started to build a garage. In those days you left Fremont Street and you just drove across there. There was no streets. He had a (10:43) and he started a garage he built out of railroad ties. They were upright. Yeah, I'll never forget. It was covered with cement, not plaster, on the outside. They didn't plaster then because— It was chalk. Anyhow, it eventually turned out to be his house. It was built there because I remember—Mike and I have talked about it—Mr. Sam Lawson, who was head of the Nevada Power and Telephone Company, came down. He said, “Mike, we've got a problem.” And Dad says, “What's that?” And he said, “Well, your house is built right on the property line and we need to put a power pole in there.” So they cut the overhang and the eaves and put the pole right up against the house. 8 You told that story the other night, too. That sort of put a niche in your house. It was there until they moved the house. It was a remarkable house. As Mike said, it was railroad ties upright and cemented, not plastered. Hey, John, you got her confused. Oh, so they were upright? Yes. Because you said they built the garage out of railroad ties. He started it as a garage. It was supposed to be a garage. That's what he's saying. So then he made it into a house and he moved the family down there. I think there was a long period of time where people started with whatever they could build and that became the house. And so this house, did it have bedrooms in it? What did it look like on the inside? Oh, yeah. It had a nice big front room, which became the store later on. It looked kind of like a dining room and then all the bedrooms. There was one bedroom right in front. Remember? Eddie and I shared that room. But then there was the bedrooms in back. Then he built a little kind of like a cabin out in back of our house where Charlie and Eddie lived for a long time. Did Wally stay out there? No, Wally didn't. Wally had his own little house. He had a little cabin and he built that. Then we had the rest of us. I lived in the back of the house, I remember, there. We had wooden floors. Because part of our duty—I think mine was 9 every Saturday I'd get down on my hands and knees and scrub the kitchen floor. So that was your household chore was to clean? Yeah. What was your household chore? Gee, I don't remember. Mike doesn't remember doing any household chores. I scrubbed my bedroom and then my bedroom was right next to the kitchen and I scrubbed those two floors. But the other thing that I do remember is in the summertime—there was no air-conditioning or anything—we used to sleep out in the yard, take our bed and put it out in the yard during the summertime. Under the fruit trees. Then my dad built the first swamp cooler probably in Las Vegas as far as I know. It overlooked our dining room. He just built a box and put some excelsior and chicken wire on it and ran water through it and let the water drain into the garden. It sure made a hell of a difference I'll tell you. But it only hit that one room, really. So the rest of them— But that dining room area, yes. They took the water and ran it out on the lawn. They didn't have a pump or anything. But the first cooler—and Mike talks about it—that cooler I saw was at right where the Golden Nugget is there was a plant store right on the corner of Fremont and Second [Street], The Penbrook Appliance store. Right next to it was a barbershop; Art Harris was the barber. There was a bunch of guys there. This guy took a little pan, made a two-by-four frame. Then he cut a burlap bag in strips and nailed it to that wooden frame. He had a little dinky fan about like that. He'd go and pour a pitcher of water to wet the burlap down. That thing blew 10 through it. That was the first cooler I ever remember and then Dad built one. It was in the window right there in the dining room. How did air-conditioning change your life? It improved it considerably, I'd say, made it a lot better. Excuse me, Mike. He had a big great (barber). Oh, it was over twice as long as this. And that's where we slept a lot. The other thing I remember sleeping outside you had that big—it was overhead and we had those bugs out there. The only thing I remember about is were those damn mosquitoes. Oh, there were mosquitoes. We don't really get that many mosquitoes now, right? He was a remarkable guy. That guy could take (this desk and plant it just like (15:29) and it would grow. He came up here with the railroad. He brought a bunch of pits and seeds and everybody laughed at him (15:38). Now, I didn't like— Right now you're talking about your dad? Yes. My dad planted them. He had a beautiful yard. For several years he had the whole row and he had three lots or four lots he planted alfalfa. Eight lots. He used to tie them together and (15:57). But it made the ground and then he planted. Grapes, he had a grape arbor that came all the way behind, 25 feet around, to the front of the house, one grape tree. He had peaches, apricots. He always wanted a shade tree. There was an apple tree, also. He had four apple trees. Yeah. And he bought him a cherry tree. He never could—so somebody told him, said, graft it to an apricot tree. He had an apricot tree and he cut it, put the cherry tree on top. I remember 11 vividly the first year we had cherries, beautiful. They were just loaded. He was thrilled to death. He got up one morning and there was nothing but pits. The birds came in as the cherries ripened. They cleaned it out. [Laughing] He also had an oleander tree, more than a bush, out in the front yard. It had three different colored blossoms—red, white and pink—because he had grafted the other colors on there. It was about, oh, close 12 feet tall, I would say. If you remember Mike, when we leased the property, I forgot who it was, I knew the guy real well. He came over and wanted to take that tree out. George Coyer. George Coyer. He tried to transfer it and it didn't work out. But it had the white, the pink and the red blossoms all over it. Sounds beautiful. That oleander bush was beautiful. Was your father in farming— No. —agrarian, when he was back in his homeland or he just took that up? I don't think he—well, he probably did because back where they were from I'm sure everybody was working on the farm, vegetables. That was part of their lifestyle. That was normal. You've got to remember he was born in, what, 1889, right? Yes. And did you have other family—or did he have other family that followed him over here? No. We never of any of his— Never met anybody from Dad's family, not a soul. 12 Now, he had brothers and sisters over there, but we never—that I know of, or Mike, that ever came over here. He learned to read and write, taught himself. (18:16) No school. This guy learned to read and write. I apologize; I should have brought it. He had the most beautiful penmanship. Oh, yeah. He did. And he wrote (18:27) in his language because he, of course, corresponded with his family over there. He spoke brokenly. He always said to Mother—and I can remember and Mike can, too—he'd say we live in America and they speak English and we speak English in this house. I really regret it because we didn't learn it. Oh, I can remember a few words. Yeah, the only sentence I learned—when some of his (18:55) friends came over. There were lots of them here at that time. Oh, yes. They had—oh, I guess they'd come over and they'd speak in Slovenian. I could understand everything they said, but I never answered. So I don't remember much of it. We used to sneak out and try to listen to them. That was another thing I remember. They drank all night. They brought up their (19:19)), what they call white liquor and wine, and they sat and told stories all night long. Like I say, Mike and I and all the rest of us would try to sneak out. But Mother fed them all night long. I never saw one of those bowhonks get up on the table and stand in her way, never. And Dad, if he thought he had had enough, “Good night, gentlemen, it's time to go to bed.” I never saw any of those (indiscernible) ever get staggering drunk. They held their liquor, huh? They held their liquor. And Mother fed them all night and I think that was the trick. 13 So your dad was in the railroad. He opened up this cash— No. Tell me about his careers, I guess. First thing he did, he bought in with Sebastian in the Las Vegas Transfer and Storage. That didn't work and he got out of it. He had the Richfield Oil Company. Nevada Oil Company, it was. Yeah, called Nevada Oil. It is now an ARCO. Excuse me a second. If you get a hold of the book that the Review-Journal put out, I think, Las Vegas through the Generations, it's got a picture of my dad in it up on Main Street when he had the oil company. There's another picture of—was is it? When it was Las Vegas Transit. No. Uncle Joe in that pickup with somebody, Sebastian I think. But there's two or three pictures in that. I've got a copy of that at home if you want to look at it. You can let me know and I'll show it to you. Mike took the picture of Dad in the first (21:02) ever came to Las Vegas. It landed right here off what is Paradise Road, about where the convention center is. It was just a landing strip. There were several other pilots. He got to know them all. Does anybody care if I close this door? No. Go ahead. Keep talking. I know what you mean. Sometimes it bothers me— Mike Grand was one of them because he got killed because he crashed in Utah. They found him. He had built a little fire sitting there and he froze to death. But he fueled the first airlines 14 (21:35). Didn't I mention to you the other evening? Yeah, you might have. But I want to get all this in this story, too. Dad was on the truck pumping and then Joe was up on the airplane, Uncle Joe. And who is Uncle Joe? That was my mother's one brother, Joe Malner. Malner, how do you spell that? M-A-L-N-A-R or N-E-R, whichever you prefer. I think E-R was original if you look it up. When my mother came out here, she had three sisters and, of course, her mother and one brother and they all lived in Las Vegas. They all were related. We were ever related to the Mikulich family through Mom. There were two different Mikulich families and there were two Pinjuv families. We think we're related, but have no way to prove it. There were two Pinjuv families here? Yes. And you weren't necessarily related. Apparently we were, yeah, but we don't know how. Because where they come from—I think it was one of your kids, but I'm not sure, went over there in Croatia. Said that if you go up there where they think folks were from, there's a lot of Pinjuvs. So they're probably all related. Yeah, my dad brought Ivan Pinjuv, the other Pinjuv family. He was a blacksmith and they (23:00). Dad built a big metal building in the backyard and Ivan had a blacksmith shop. I always remembered that. One time they sort of—the edge of a block or something in the forage, gas had permeated it. All of a sudden it blew up. It blew holes all through that building. He had Old Man Hogan that worked for him. Knocked him cold, but it didn't kill him. But it 15 explodes like a bomb. I remember that vividly. So I want to understand the business. So when it opened it was the first and only petroleum outlet here? I don't think it was the first one. 416 North Main [Street]. I worked in that plant years later. Yeah, Richfield Oil was the name of it. Now ARCO. Yeah, it's now ARCO. They bought him out. That's why he went with the grocery. He was pretty well off, not rich or anything. But he always wanted a grocery store. And the Depression hit, plus the fact that Dad was a soft touch; he couldn't say no to anybody that had children. It was always credit. I can remember Mother saying, “Mike, you've got to collect your money,” which he never did. That's where we learned how to count money because they put us all to work. Mike can tell you, too. So you all worked in the grocery store? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fred's shaking his head no. Did Charlie ever work in the grocery store? I don't think Charlie ever did, no. So describe the grocery store for me, one of you. 16 Well, one thing Dad built is, shall I say, an island and put sheet metal on it for vegetables. He had water running up through there so he could turn it on to spray the vegetables to keep them cool. But we used to wait on you; you didn't go pick out your stuff. You'd come up to the counter and say I need a can of peaches or a can of corn or something, and we'd go get it for you and add it up and tell you how much it would cost. Then during the [Great] Depression, the thing that I always remember about Dad's grocery store, when the Depression was going on and we had lots of men coming through looking for work, a lot of them would come over there because we were pretty well downtown—there wasn't anything else that was downtown—and Dad would say, “Oh, fix him a bologna sandwich.” And I don't know how many bologna sandwiches we gave away. They came in straight down from the railroad. Word got out you could get a bite to eat. Mike made many, many of them. I don't know how many bologna sandwiches we gave away during the Depression. 17 See, there wasn't much in town then. In fact, when Uncle Joe came, they were living up on Second Street or wherever they were. It was Third Street, I think it was. The railroad. And she was washing dishes, looking out the window, and she saw this kid coming across Main Street there at the railroad. She hollered at my dad. She said, “My God, it's my brother Joe.” He was 16 years old when he left Kansas City, rode the rails out. And that's how Joe— Like the hobo idea of riding the rails. Pretty much, yeah. That's the way Joe came to town. He worked for my dad and then he went out. He was a tough old guy, I'll tell you. Do you remember? He worked all the rest of his life. Now, did he work with your dad or did he— Just for a while, yeah. Then he went on his own. What kind of work did he do? He worked for Pop Simon. He drove a truck. Drove a big truck. I always remember Pop Simon bought a rolling mill, ball mill somewhere up in Colorado or somewhere. I don't know where it was. But my brother Wally (27:12) international truck. Now, how in heaven's name those two guys ever put that railroad bed on top of that truck and tied it down and brought it back? Pop had a mine down on the river, Techatticup Mine. And they brought that rolling mill down here. And how in the hell they ever got here, I often wonder. I'm going to talk to Wally about that. I rode out to Techatticup Mine one time with Uncle Joe when he was hauling ore concentrates 18 when the mine was still operating. It's now you turn off and go through Nelson almost down to the river. There was a mine down there. I don't know who owns it, but they've got a real old building out there. [Pause in recording] We're recording again. Mike, how long have you lived over on Wesley [Street]? I moved there in 1960, June of 1960. Before that you were down on St. Louis, weren't you? Yeah, 1733 East St. Louis. Yes. I go by there all the time. And then, John, you were starting to tell me, your first home with your family, your personal family, was where? It was at Paradise [Road] and Flamingo [Road]. We had a couple of kids. I went to the bank to borrow some money (28:51) too far out of town. Paradise and Flamingo was too far out of town? Well, there was nothing out there. Isn't that something? Yes, there was. There was old what's-her-name had that little ranch over across the street. Well, yeah, but that's all. There was no business, period. So I sold it and moved to Eighth Street awhile. I was going to church one day and we were out of the church and there was a house under construction on the South 15 and I told my wife about it. She went down and met the guy. Ken Kellner, the accountant, is his father-in-law. And he just took a liking to my wife. He said, well, momma wants to live out by the grandchildren. And he 19 says I'll tell you what I got in this house and if you'll accommodate, I'll let you have it just the same. So she got all the information and I had gone to the bank for a loan. We were going to build a house. The bank accepted it. It didn't have any floor in it or curtains or anything. So we bought the house. It was a beautiful house. Down with all the big shots—the Tibertis, the Von Tobels and the Foleys and that bunch. So my children grew up and all went to Saint Anne's. They had a great background. Then their mother died when the baby wasn't quite two. So they had a great life. They all went to Saint Anne's and grew up. And I guess if we think back, we could talk a long time about growing up here. But you've been here so long that you've raised multiple generations in your family. When did you feel like—or talk to me about what it felt like to see maybe the first change in this city. When was that? Can you think back when you knew something really was different? The thing I noticed was right after the dam, the town, and then the road came. I remember them building the Boulder Dam. The guys came here off the railroad, riding the rails, looking for work. Dad rented the back part of our property to Fox Brothers Construction. They built the road to Boulder City. Then the town started to move. Like I say, the guys came here looking for work because the dam was—and it was a remarkable job, really. I remember; I don't know whether Mike remembers. Remember how they used to take us out and we used to sleep