Transcript of interview with Glenn Tredwell by Barbara Tabach, March 4, 2016 and April 14, 2016

AN INTERVIEW WITH GLENN TREDWELL An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ?Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV ? University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader?s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Glenn Victory Tredwell was born on VE Day, May 8, 1945 in Philadelphia, PA. He grew up in a close family in the Philadelphia area and attended Temple University. He later graduated from the University of Miami with a degree in landscape architecture and had a two decade long career in landscaping in Florida. Glenn can trace his Jewish roots to generations of Russians on his father?s side and to Germany on his mother?s side. He recalls working and learning about the family wholesale produce business?his grandfather owned Christmas tree farms and potato farms. Among the most influential people in his life were his uncles Clifford and Stuart Perlman?Cliff Perlman who was President and CEO of Caesars Palace from 1969 ? 1981. Together the Perlman brothers built the Lum?s restaurant chain that became part of the Kentucky Fried Chicken dynasty. It was at his Uncle Cliff?s encouragement that he learned about the casino business by working at Caesars. From this background, Glenn?s entrepreneurial and sales management skills were launched. In this interview he talks about his business ventures since moving to Las Vegas in 1976. He is able to address the many nuances of technology on the global gaming industry. Glenn and his wife Claire participated in the founding of the Spina Bifida Association of Nevada. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Glenn Tredwell March 4 & April 14, 2016 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface??????????????????????????????????..iv SESSION 1 Describes his ancestry: father born in Philadelphia; grandparents immigrated from Czarist Russian to England. Explains how the name ?Tredwell? came to be surname; Orthodox Jewish background in family. Story of how he was given the middle name Victory. Mother?s family came from Germany; shares his mother?s tap dancing career in Atlantic City NJ; memories of his youth and enjoying weekends in Atlantic City. Family owned Christmas tree farms in Canada; potato farm in Maine; wholesale produce business in Philadelphia. His grandfather partnered with US Army to develop dehydrated potatoes; sold rotten potatoes and onions to a whiskey manufacturer....1-6 Mentions his uncles (mother?s brothers) Cliff and Stuart Perlman; graduating from high school in Penn Valley PA; cousin Billy who was an FBI agent; grandfather who was a dentist; his move to Florida to work with his Perlman uncles in their business, Lum?s restaurant chain; being exposed to racial segregation in Florida. Mentions joining the US Navy???????????.7 ? 10 Details of working for Lum?s; working from busboy to hot dog truck delivery to the stores in Miami; Lum?s bought Dirr?s Gold Seal Meats; creation of Lumburger, a sloppy joe sandwich, by his grandmother. By age 21, he was working in one of the restaurants; soon supervising seven locations; success of the chain and its expansion to over 450 stores, internationally and across the US; he became part of the ?opening crew.? Explains what became of the Lum?s franchise..11 ? 16 Talks about becoming a landscape architect and attending University of Miami at his uncle?s urging; some of his clients and experiences in that line of work for nearly twenty years until he needed a career change??.??????????????????????.??..16 ? 20 In 1976, his father suggested he come to Las Vegas to visit his Uncle Cliff who was the owner/operator of Caesars; he and his future wife Claire flew in on the Caesar Chariot; story about living in the hotel for six weeks; going to dealer school and dealing for El Cortez and Caesars; pitfalls of working for his uncle?s casino??????????????????..?.21 ? 25 Tells of co-founding the Spina Bifida Association of Nevada; his daughter was born with spina bifida; fundraising and celebrity involvement in some of the events?????????25 ? 28 vi SESSION 2 Gives background information to Cliff Perlman; Burton Cohen lawyer with his uncle?s law firm; more about Lum?s and other businesses that the Perlmans owned; more description of his own involvement as a Lum?s franchisee; Perlman connection with Howard Johnsons. Explains the ownership of land that Caesars sits on. Discusses Cliff?s visionary talent as applied to Caesars; Cliff?s challenges in Atlantic City; Caesars Tahoe and delivering the bank money. Tells about on-and-off attempt to buy Dunes from Morris Shenker???????????????.29 ? 33 Tells about being the director of marketing to attract high rollers to Caesars; Caribbean operation for 3 ? years; being licensed by Riviera, Sands, Hacienda and Sahara hotel/casinos. Worked for Paul-Son Gaming handling marketing of cruise ship accounts; the explosion of gaming throughout the world and how it differs today from the 80s and 90s?????????????..34 ? 39 Talks about working for Hilton and Henri Lewin; wanting to return to working for Morris Shenker; becoming involved in casino boat operations with his father; repurposing ships for gaming; Si Redd was a business model for this type of venture; series of challenges to get up and operating only to scrap the ship; lessons learned?????????????????????.40 ? 47 Describes his next business partnership, Millennium Displays; the impact of September 11, 2001, on the business; working with company that built Fremont Experience canopy modules; sales manager for a coin reader business; Astro Systems; and technology changes that led to FortuNet wireless gaming; Mikohn Gaming and Caribbean Stud Poker. Mentions Aristocrat gaming company; Norwegian Cruise Line and Carnival Cruise line???????????.?.48 ? 58 Talks about a current project that is in organizational stage; Maritime Casino Systems; Cuba as a potential location at a time when relations have been changing?????????...?..59 ? 63 Index?????????????????????????????????...64 ? 65 Appendix Family photos?????????????????????????.??..66-78 Super Yacht Business Summary Plan (May 2016)?????????????.81-112 vii 1 This is Barbara Tabach. Today is March fourth, 2016. I'm sitting with Glenn Tredwell. Glenn, let's start by you spelling your name for us. It's Glenn, G-L-E, double N. Middle name Victory, V-I-C-T-O-R-Y. Tredwell, T-R-E-D-W-E-L-L. SESSION 1 Thanks. As I was saying, people of Jewish ancestry have been so significant in the development of Las Vegas. So we're looking for the stories of the people who have experienced it and participated in it and you're one of those people. You've been here since?when, 1976? Yes. Is that what I see here? Okay. Before we get to Vegas, tell me a little bit of what you know of your family ancestry. Well, my dad, Bill, William Tredwell, was born in Philadelphia. His father is Sol Tredwell and my great uncles?Michael Tredwell and Samuel?we called him Shmuel?Tredwell, they migrated from Russia. They were born in Kiev, and during Czar Nicholas' term they escaped and wound up in the UK in England. So that's how they coined?the name used to be in Russian Trediak. Trediak means three brothers. So Tredwell...So they came through Ellis Island in New York. When they came off the ship, they go through the process of coming into the United States. And the Russian that they spoke and the English, broken English, the custom agents, if you may call him at that time, said, "Okay, Trediak, Tredwell." So they stamped their immigration cards and their paperwork Tredwell. But it was Tredwell in England, but they insisted on carrying the old name Trediak from Russia throughout generations. My great-grandfather was an Orthodox rabbi in the old country, in Russia, which that was 2 suppressed; religion was suppressed. That's the biggest reason why they got out of there; the Cossacks were going to murder the whole family. So in the old country they had a tavern, my great-grandfather Leibish. His name was Leibish and my Jewish name is Leibish; I was named after him. My grandfather told me the stories and my grandmother?her name was Fanny?they tell me the stories of when they came here and before they came here and how they used to secretly own the tavern, but they did own a tavern, but they couldn't because of the oppression. Oh, wow. So I don't know whether or not you have people come in with stories like that or they just start in the U.S. A lot of people don't know. They only know, well, they came from Eastern Europe or Russia. I looked it up on Ancestry-dot-com. My first cousin, Billy Fleischer, William Fleischer, who was my father's sister's son?her name was Esther?was born in Philadelphia. We were close, a very close family. We grew up in Philadelphia. My middle name is Victory. I was born on VE Day, May eighth, 1945. That's an obvious question: how you got your name. So you look at May 8, 1945. And my mom keeps on telling me?she's ninety-three and a half?how she heard all this cheering out the window of her hospital. I was born in Saint Joseph's Hospital in Philadelphia. People are shouting and screaming and carrying on. She got up and looked outside. She thought it was because she gave birth to me. No, it was VE Day. The nurses came and they're all celebrating. You couldn't believe the excitement from winning the war against the Nazis in Germany and the Nazis all over. So that's basically my father's side. My mother's side?her name is Marilyn Perlman, middle initial P for Peggy?she had 3 two brothers, Clifford and Stuart. My grandfather on my mother's side and my grandmother Freda Perlman and Freda Perlman's husband, my grandfather, was Bernard and he was a dentist in Philadelphia. Their family came from Germany originally, Germany or somewhere over there; I'm not too sure, but the Perlman name. So moving on a little bit, my mom was in show business; show business being she was a tap dancer. She was a lead dancer and she danced in Broadway shows. Tap; she did a little bit of ballet. She tried out for the Rockettes; she was that good. But she didn't make it because she was too short. She was a lead dancer. I guess they call it the star of the show; she wasn't just the lead dancer. She was in Atlantic City?I'll shorten this?and my grandparents and?I remember we had a house in Atlantic City when we were kids and we reserved rolling chairs on the Boardwalk in Atlantic City. I remember with?I had a brother Mark at the time, my cousin Billy Fleischer, his sister Gloria and his other brother Ellis. We'd stay in the house in Ventnor, a big house, a three-story house in Ventnor on the beach block. We'd go Friday and Saturday nights to the rolling chairs. They'd sit there and all their friends would come by and everyone on the Boardwalk was dressed up in fur coats and suits. Wow. Yes. That was in its heyday. So this would be...What decades or years would this be? This is like in the 1940s and early ?50s. So that's when Steel Pier had the high diving horse, the amusement pier that stretched out into the Atlantic Ocean. It was just unbelievable. The Miss America Pageant was there in the convention center, which was right on the Boardwalk. We'd go back and forth for the weekends to Philly, sixty miles to Atlantic City and spend the 4 weekends when we were young kids. So you still have vivid memories of that? Oh, yes, everything. Riding our bikes on the Boardwalk in the morning when they were permitted. We'd go for long, long rides. Then growing up in Philadelphia, my grandfather and my father were in the potato and onion business. We also sold watermelons and Christmas trees, but just not selling a Christmas tree; they were the largest car lot receiver of potatoes and onions in Philadelphia where they'd have twenty-six carloads of potatoes on track in the wholesale produce market and their customers were the chain stores. So I grew up in that era. The Christmas trees, we had tree farms in Canada, in Quebec Province and New Brunswick, which I inherited five hundred acres of tree farms in New Brunswick from my dad in between Campbellton, New Brunswick and Van Buren, Maine. It was a long road and in between in the middle of nowhere was a town called Saint Jean du Baptiste. It was a tiny little town. It was so poor that the Catholic Church boarded up their place and a politician took it over and turned it into a grocery store. Anyway, we'd cut Christmas trees with the crews all over and tie them and bundle them and ship them. We had a contract with the army, for example, and we'd export trees to the army bases, even Guantanamo then, all over the world. But on the potatoes and onions, we had a potato farm in Houlton, Maine, and we partnered with a fellow in Buhl, Idaho; his name was Mel Gresky. My grandfather and J.R. Simplot were good friends, the potato people from Idaho, Simplot, and I knew him. We partnered with them in growing and shipping by rail, Maine potatoes by rail and truck. So we had a packing house in Philadelphia. We employed a hundred people to unload the railroad cars and pack. We've sold to Hot Shops, part of Marriott Corporation in 5 Washington, D.C.; I mean we had some pretty good customers and I was involved with that from when I was twelve years old. My grandfather would say, "Do you want to eat? You have to work." So what kind of jobs would you do? Oh, everything from unloading potato cars to unpacking potatoes and repairing the packing machines if they didn't work, selling on the floor. We had a double-wide space at the Philadelphia Produce Market as well and we'd sample all our potatoes and onions and watermelons there, which opened at three in the morning; during the summer that's what I did. So I wrote orders to the chain store buyers from Food Fair stores, Penn Fruit stores, A&M Markets, et cetera. All of them. That's great. Hard work ethic was engrained in you at a young age. Oh, sure. So anyway, with that happening, my cousin Ellis, Billy Fleischer's brother, took over and we saw an evolution happening with the chain stores. We sold to Acme Markets, which is still around today. They were big as Kroger is. The chain stores started buying the potato fields and growing their own. Our partnerships, selling to stay in business, we worked with the chain stores. So they contracted our field and did their harvesting. Labor was getting to be very expensive at the time. At the same time, Campbell's Soup was flourishing after World War II because all the Japanese internment camps were located outside of Camden, New Jersey, in around the Atlantic City area and South Jersey, and they grew tomatoes. I don't know if you knew that. So when the war was over and our government opened up the internment camps, you could see a heavy Japanese population in these areas. They also did the same in California; they interned a lot of people because they were Japanese, just like Hitler did. They were afraid of terrorism at that 6 time because the Japanese bombed Hawaii. Right. One of the embarrassments of our history. I guess now we know better. Yes. So getting back to that, our building?and this is so important?our building in South Philadelphia, the address was 101 East Oregon Avenue. So this building, in the back was part of the old Philadelphia salt works, which dates back to the early nineteen hundreds. When we were kids we used to explore the caves and caverns that were open enough for us to climb in and walk through these passageways. We used to find some interesting things, like chains and rings where they...I don't know what they did. Part of that, where our office was, was a secret laboratory where they produced the A-bomb. During World War II?our office was located right near the Delaware River, wharf where the ships would come in?they captured a German submarine going to offload people in Philadelphia to go and raid that underground facility and steal the secrets and parts to the A-bomb, in our office; that's where it was. I have pictures somewhere. So we were close to the wharf. The produce center was down there, the railroad yards?Pennsylvania Railroad; we had B & O Railroad, which was up Delaware Avenue. But it was a railroad area. We shipped and received onions from Chile from the wharf. My grandfather partnered with the U.S. Army and developed dehydrated potatoes. He's had certificates from them contributing to the war effort. So they package dehydrated potatoes and shipped them to our servicemen and they put them in their backpacks and field rations type thing. What else happened? One of our customers was Publicker Industries. So all the rotten onions and potatoes went to make old Grand Dad whiskey. So there was very little waste then in the produce. 7 There was no waste. It was all reutilized. So moving on, graduating high school, I graduated high school. I went to Drexel for a semester, went to Temple for a semester. My uncles were in Florida. My uncle Cliff worked for my grandfather during the wintertime running the Christmas tree store at a Sears and Roebuck. Sears was our customer as well. He said it taught him a lesson. It taught him that he didn't want to do this. That's what Clifford told me. So he moved to Florida?well, I'll get into his part another time. But he moved to Florida. He was an attorney. And you're talking about Clifford Perlman, your uncle. Cliff, yes. So in the context of the story then when we come back to it, that's the person who eventually came to own and operate Caesars Palace. Yes. So that's my reason for going to Miami, Miami Beach. He was an attorney. Stuart was a restaurateur. Actually, back in Philadelphia, my uncle Stuart had an old car?to me it was old?and a trailer. He went around neighborhoods selling clothing. Opening up this trailer, it was no larger than this room or even smaller. He went around neighborhoods and people would buy clothing. That was how people bought clothing in that area, yes. Yes. I'm talking about post-Depression. My mom survived?they all survived the Depression. My grandfather was a dentist. They lived in the Kensington area of Philadelphia, which was primarily Catholic. He had a dental practice. I remember sleeping over his house. I remember finding his revolver pistol from his hiding spot. I remember all these things as a little kid. You can't hide anything from a little kid. My mom went to dance school there and my grandmother used to take her there on the 8 trolley to the dance school. So it's so vivid in my mind, Barbara. So moving on from all that to Philadelphia, we lived in the suburbs while we were teenagers. What suburb did you live in? We lived in Penn Valley, which was the little town of Narberth. We went to Lower Merion School District schools. I graduated from Harriton High School, which I was friends with this gal; her name was Carol Pew, whose family owned Sun Oil Company. So it was high-end. One of my friends, his name was John Jacobi, became?I don't know what he does. He doesn't do anything. He retired twenty years ago in Hawaii. This other fellow that I was friends with, Stu Snively is a tugboat captain on the Mississippi. How funny is that? We probably had six Jewish kids in the whole school. Ah. So you didn't grow up in a tight Jewish community of Philadelphia. No, not at all. I remember a lot of things about growing up in Penn Valley, Narberth, which we weren't too far from Valley Forge, and a lot of not so good things that my grandfather didn't like or my dad where we'd go to New York City and take my grandfather's station wagon to go drinking in the city because the drinking age was eighteen and we lied about our age then. You didn't have to have a fake ID? We were sixteen. Nobody cared. Took it for the day and came back early in the morning the next morning with a broken transmission. Growing up was great. My cousin Billy, we were close, really close. He went to temple?no. He became a Philadelphia cop in West Philadelphia. Billy and I were tough guys then. He became a Philadelphia policeman. He was the most hated cop in West Philadelphia. He had his picture taken in the Philadelphia Tribune. 9 [Pause in recording] Billy wound up in the FBI and he was stationed in Boston. I mean this is years later, but we'll get to that. Then he retired from Treasury Department and DEA, Drug Enforcement in charge of three states, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware, for drug enforcement. He had all these agents under him. He had a great job. But he was a tough kid, too. So you said you were a tough guy, too. Yes. How did you act how? How were you tough? Well, I took a lot of abuse. Unlike my cousin, I wasn't much of a fighter, but I knew how to defend myself. So getting back to that, Clifford and Stuart moved to Miami. They said, "Send Glenn here; we'll go to Miami Dade County Junior College." So you were about how old when that happened? Seventeen or eighteen. You had graduated from high school? Yes. And then lived there with them, with my uncle Stuart, then moved out and lived with my grandmother when she moved down, and she lived right on the beach. Where in Florida were you? Miami Beach. Then I went to Dade County Junior College, stayed there, got a certificate. And they started with Lum?s [restaurant chain] and I started with Lum's, too. I started as a busboy and my uncle Morris, whose wife, Frieda, was sisters with my grandfather's sister. So Morris and Freda and Freda and Morris. Now, did your uncles start Lum's? 10 My uncles bought a beer and wine place on Forty-first Street in Miami Beach and they made sandwiches behind the counter. They named it Lum's after the radio show "Lum and Abner." Do you remember that? I remember hearing about it. I don't remember it. You were a little baby. So they named it Lum's and it was a shoebox store on Forty-first, not even on Collins Avenue, which is the main drag. Then I remember they had segregation in Miami Beach. Black people sat in the back. There was a fellow that worked for him; his name was Willie. Willie waited on the people in the back and he also cut the meat. He cut the portions in the back room with the slicer, the ham and the cheese and this, that and the other. So he was black? He was a black guy. [Pause in recording] But here's a guy, the greatest guy you ever want to meet. And segregation wasn't my thing. In Philadelphia, the people that we hired were mostly black. They lived in that area, well, not where the terminal was, where the packing house was, but they lived in South Street, Bainbridge Street, Third and Bainbridge. It was like their neighborhood. The hundred people that worked for us were terrific. They looked after me. I got along great with them. "That's Sol's grandson." Yes. It's a shock when you see that. When you see it and it said ?no coloreds.? I mean I didn't care whether...It didn't matter to me. Just a little footnote. Willie retired as a multimillionaire from the stock options from Lum's restaurants. Good for him. Yes. And Willie was a good guy. They put up with the segregation until it then it was 11 abolished. But Florida was very segregated even to the Jewish people. You think as a Jewish haven was Miami Beach; it wasn't. I mean they were all WASPs. So did you feel? I didn't feel anything, no. You didn't feel anything there, okay. No, because I didn't care and I'm the type of guy then, a tough guy that I could defend myself. You want to call me a name? I'll just take care of business. Got you, okay. So with Lum's and Dade County Junior College, I got acquainted with a fellow that I went to Dade County Junior College with; his name was Bob Dickert whose father Bud was in charge of Eastern Airlines jet engine overhaul for every airplane in their fleet. He was in charge of the whole plant near the airport in Miami. Anyway, so Bob and I became friends and we used to go fishing and hunting and this, that and the other. Bob was a great guy. Then I got my draft notice. Bob got his notice at the same time to report at six in the morning, to report at the Coral Gables induction station. What year was that? I don't remember. But this was just after the Cuban, Kennedy's? The missile crisis. After that. The missile crisis. I put on a uniform and they found out that I had a problem with my back and I got one wide. And they say, "What's one wide?" One wide is women and children go first, but in a national emergency we'll take you. And I didn't like that because I wanted to see the world. But Bob and I were good pals and we arrived at the induction station. We were so drunk 12 it was unbelievable because we partied the night before. Two days before that we joined the Navy. We figured, well, the Navy is good; it's not so dangerous. And this is before Vietnam. Well, it was a little complicated because the navy found out that we got drafted and the army found out that we were in the navy and it was like, we don't want to deal with this guy. So we got one wide. He got a one wide as well. I said, "What's wrong with your back?" He said, "I don't know, but they one wide me, too, because of the stunt." We pulled a stunt. We said, "Oh, let's see, we'll go in the navy at the same time and let them fight over us. We're pretty good and we'll see." It could have been politics that got us out. But I certainly didn't want to go into Vietnam. Anyway, I wasn't going to go to Canada; I'm not that type. A lot of them went to Canada. So started with Lum's. Dade County, forget it. I was making a lot of money with Lum's. So you worked yourself up from busboy, obviously. From busboy, yes. Before I was twenty-one, I was driving the hot dog truck and I was delivering the hot dogs and the payroll and picking up the daily reports and things like that. They had fourteen stores then in South Florida, all in the Miami area. Wow. Yes. They bought a company called Dirr's Gold Seal Meats. Called what? Dirr?s Gold Seal Meats, who manufactured their hot dogs for them. Lum's was famous for hot dogs steamed in beer. Then we had sloppy Joes, which we called Lumburger. My grandmother made the Lumburger in their kitchen at my aunt's house. My grandfather, Pop Ben, used to take the pots of Lumburger in the station wagon and deliver them before we got the truck and I took over. So actually, I retired my grandfather from doing what he did. 13 Such a good grandson. Yes. So that's how I got the job. I didn't apply for it. It's like, here, we're going to buy a little truck?it was a little box truck?and you're going to deliver everything. Tell me? Well, that was another story. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead. Of driving around Miami Beach, which was heavily populated with retired people and they were looking for anything to be taken care of. Like, I got accused twice with my picture in the Miami Beach Sun of hitting a retired person. So what they do is they bang on the side of the truck and fall down on Lincoln Road. I'd say, "I wasn't even in the driver's seat." So this was like a setup to make it look like you had? Yes, so they could get some money from Lum's and also be taken care of in the hospital because who knows; they could have been homeless. It was sad. Oh, sure. So the lawyers took care of all that stuff. I said, "I can't do this anymore." When I became twenty-one, I went in the stores and I worked at Lum's Number Four, which was at Seventy-first and Collins, as a bartender. We had beer and wine and making sandwiches. Then I was a night manager?or relief manager, then a night manager, then a district manager. I had seven stores. Wow. And you were very young. Yes. And I supervised seven stores in Fort Lauderdale. Spring break in Fort Lauderdale, Barbara, you could imagine. We had lines going out the side door. It was one way in and exit by the cash register on the other end. Kids were trying to walk out without paying their bill. I said, "I'll take care of that." 14 Whoa. Yes, yes. "You forgot something, didn't you? Oh, you forgot to pay your bill. Get over here and pay it." A lot of dine and dashing going on. Yes. In another store we did like a million dollars a year in sales. That's a lot of money. One of my stores, Hollywood Boulevard and State Road 441, right on the corner, we did a million dollars in hot dogs and sandwiches a year; that's how busy that store was. I just want to...So Lum's started out just one little location. It grew in South Florida. Creeped up to Fort Lauderdale. How expansive did the Lum's business? We had over 450 stores in the U.S., Puerto Rico, Madrid, Spain, the UK. We had two or three here in Vegas. We had stores all over. I was part of the opening crew. So I took a hiatus from going to college, a break. I was making a lot of money. This fellow and I, Dennis Serio, were the opening crew. What does that mean to be the opening crew? We were in charge of opening, setting up the stores. When a franchisee would come in and buy one, we would go to the location once the franchise agent?his name was Ken Chivers?approved it. And they were approving locations left and right. We were growing so fast. We'd have a calendar with openings, like your dry board there. We'd be on the road going to Lima, Ohio; Hannibal, Missouri; this one; that one; all over the U.S. We didn't go to Europe, which we were pissed. We wanted to go to Madrid and open that one, but they had their own people that spoke Spanish. It wouldn't have worked out. Anyway, but we were busy enough. They were building stores...I said, "You can't build a store over here." Why? "Because part of the store is 15 on somebody else's land." So they had sixty of those stores that were too close to the sidewalk, somebody else's land, the elevation wasn't high enough; when they had the foundation poured, they had to fill it in and re-pour a second foundation on top of that. We were growing so fast it was unbelievable. But opening, they'd have a package. So the franchisee would buy a package whether it's a used package from our subsidiary of used equipment or new equipment. All this stuff was packed on a van line, shipped there, and we were there and we trained the help. We did all the training. We set up the stores when the equipment came in; we had people that we hired to do that. That's the opening crew. We stayed at each store for two weeks until after they were on their own because we had a busy schedule. What happened with the Lum's franchise? Lum's was sold to John Y. Brown, who is one of my uncle Cliff's friends, who was the ex-governor of Kentucky. John Y. owned Kentucky Fried Chicken as well. He bought it from Colonel Sanders and then flipped it. He bought Lum's from us. John Y. and his father and his father's girlfriend had a house on Golden Beach, which is just north of Miami Beach or actually Sunny Isles Beach. We used to go swimming in their house. I knew them well. He'd say, "Glenn, any time you want to go." Claire, my wife, and I would go swimming there when we lived in South Florida. "The house is yours when I'm not there." So you were hanging out with a lot of entrepreneurial people. Entrepreneurial, top people. Way back then, even before Vegas I knew them all. Where was I? So you're opening the franchises and the Lum's franchise system is getting larger and larger. Yes. So they sold it to John Y.