Howard Heckethorn interview, March 2, 1977: transcript

UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 1 An Interview with Howard Heckethorn An Oral History Conducted by Neil C. Dalmas Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 4 Abstract On March 2, 1977, Neil C. Dalmas interviewed teacher Howard Heckethorn, (born on September 14th, 1922 in St. George, Utah) at Red Rock Elementary School in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview offers an overview of early education in Nevada. Mr. Heckethorn also discusses Stewart Ranch, Howard Hughes and the Hughes Site, and the migration of the Mormons to the Las Vegas area. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 5 My name is Neil Dalmas and it is 3 o’clock in the afternoon, March 2nd. I’m at Red Rock Elementary School, 408 Upland Boulevard, interviewing Howard Heckethorn of 5409 Flower Circle, for the Nevada History Oral Interview Project. Mr. Heckethorn has lived in Southern Nevada for the past forty-nine years. Our subject for today is the changing Las Vegas scene in early education. Mr. Heckethorn, were you born in Southern Nevada? St. George, Utah. When did you come to the city? In 1928. Did you and your family travel here? Yes. My mother and my father and my brother and myself. Were you educated in Southern Nevada? Yes. From the third grade through high school. I graduated from high school here. What schools did you attend? I attended Westside third grade. Then the Las Vegas Grammar School. And it was the only grammar school in town. It was on the old South Fifth Street, which is Las Vegas Boulevard now. And then, I went to Las Vegas High School and graduated from Las Vegas High School in 1941. Recently, there was a celebration or something of the Fifth Street School. Yes. Some of the old-timers met and they had K. O. Knudsen, the principal, he was the speaker over there. And they had some other guests over there, yes. Uh-huh. Is there anything you can tell me about the Fifth Street School that you remember? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 6 Yes. When I was in the fifth grade in 1934, in May, it burned down. And then, we finished the school year, which is about two weeks, we went and we went in and we shared rooms with other grades over in the other part of the grammar school that didn’t burn down. And then, during the summer they built tents, and in my sixth grade and seventh grade, I went to school in tents. And that was while they were building the new Las Vegas Grammar School, which now is part of—which is an annex to the courthouse. And in fall of 1936, it was completed and I went into the eighth grade in the new grammar school. And my class was the first class to graduate from the new grammar school right there, and it was called the Fifth Street Grammar School. And it was K through eighth grade. And it was the only grammar school in Las Vegas at that time. I understand that there was quite a popular tree across the street from it—just across the street from the Fifth Street School. Yes. But I don’t—I remember the tree but I don’t remember too much about it. Wasn’t an area for the boys to fight after school? Yes. We used to—(Laughs) we used to have a few fights over there, yes. I believe I had a couple of fights over there, too. What type of occupations have you held in Southern Nevada? Well, first as a student, then I—after I got out of the service, I went to work at Nellis as a fireman. Then I went back to University of Nevada. Then I came back as a teacher. And all the time that I’ve been a teacher. I was usually moonlighting in the grocery store. So I was a grocery clerk, too. How many years have you been a teacher? Twenty-two years. Bet you’ve seen a lot of different changes in the education field. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 7 I sure have. When I started here in 1951, I taught at Nellis. We taught in the barracks. They didn’t have a school out there at that time. We taught in—I taught in a barracks. And I had a combination of fifth and sixth grade, ‘cause we didn’t have enough kids for a fifth grade or a sixth grade. So I had, I believe it was thirteen children in the fifth and thirteen in the sixth. Two rows, in the room, two and a half rows—the fifth grade sat in and the sixth grade sat in the other two and a half rows. Where were the children primarily from? Surrounding area? Oh, no, no. They were from—their parents were—well, usually their dads were in the service out there. And they were from, well, all over the world. I taught there one year. And then I went to North Ninth Street, and taught there one year, and then I quit for four years, and was grocery manager at Foodland Market. Where was that? Foodland Market’s Fifteenth and Fremont. Is that (unintelligible)? Uh-huh. In those days, it was the second largest grocery store in town. Now it’s just a neighborhood market. Then I decided to go back into teaching then I’ve been at Red Rock since 1957. Have you lived in various places in Las Vegas? I lived—you want me to name them? All the places? I lived in Westside when I first came here. That’s where a lot of the people—most of the people lived in those days. It’s either Westside or right Downtown by—on Fremont or First Street. There’s a Westside and then I moved down to Sunrise Acres. Then—lived there until 1948, my folks did. And then we moved up about North UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 8 13th Street in 1949. Then in 1952, we moved out to North Las Vegas and then I got married and bought my own home up here: 5409 Flower Circle. I been up here since 1955. Was church activity an important part of your life? Yes. It was an important part. I’m—when I—I don’t go to church regularly. But I go and when I do, I go to the LDS Church, Fourteenth Ward. My wife’s a Baptist. She was raised in a Baptist home in Dallas, Texas. My kids are baptized in the Baptist church right around the corner from where I live. Have you attended various churches around? Yes. And mostly the LDS. But I’ve gone to the Baptist church. And I go occasionally at the LDS up here. From the churches you have attended are they still around? Uh-huh. And the first one that I attended here in Las Vegas was in Ward One on Ninth Street Downtown, at Ninth and (Unintelligible) And then, Eighth and Lindon, I used to attend that one. And when I moved up here, I attended the one on West Charleston. Now I—when I go I attend the one at Jones and Alta, Ward Fourteen. Do you remember any of the visits of presidents or? Yes. Franklin Roosevelt came here in 1936, to dedicate Boulder Dam, which is Hoover Dam now. And he came in on a train, and he was picked up in a—I don’t remember the car. But then they had a long procession out at Boulder Dam and they spoke out there, and dedicated Boulder Dam. Now, then—that’s the only president I remember. Then one time, Truman came through Reno when he was running against Dewey, in 1948, and he stopped and made a five minute UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 9 speech and waived at the crowd and went on to San Francisco. But when Roosevelt was here it was quite a deal. Everybody in town followed him out to Boulder Dam to listen to him speak. Did he leave right afterwards then? Yes. Uh-huh. But this, I don’t remember the month. But it was 1936, Boulder Dam was finished and he came and he spoke, and course he was picked up at the railroad station up on Main and Fremont. Course he had a fleet of cars, and a couple of cars or whatever secret service and him, and whoever, I don’t remember. But I remember him very well and I remember him speaking. And I remember when we thought that was quite a deal. Do you remember much of the construction of Boulder Dam? Oh yes. I remember while I was a kid selling newspapers at the time the Bill was passed. And I believe the Bill was passed to build Boulder Dam or Hoover Dam when Coolidge was president. Right at the end of his term. Right. And it was during the Depression that Vegas needed a shot in the arm for employment or something that did it. And I lived right here during the Depression and Boulder Dam was a God send for all of us. What kind of changes did you—do you most remember at that time? Oh, gosh, I—well, I remember when the El Rancho Hotel was first built. That was 1940. That was the first Strip hotel. Before that they didn’t have any—the hotels Downtown were the Sal Sagev and the Apache. Those were the big hotels and then they had—I remember the gambling halls Downtown, were: The Northern, The Boulder, The Las Vegas Club that was it. Northern, Las Vegas Club, and Boulder Club, yes. Then later on they built the Frontier Club, and then of course, in 1946, they built the Golden Nugget, then The Mint, then The Fremont, and so on. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 10 Do you remember the Flamingo Hotel? Yes. It was—I was going to the University of Nevada, then. It was 1946. It was the third hotel built here in Vegas. Built right after the war and Bugsy Siegel was the owner. It was hard to get materials to build the hotel. But he managed to get ‘em. He built the hotel and they opened on New Year’s Eve 1940—’46, ’47. And I was even younger. I was home during that Christmas vacation from the university and I went out there. Course the El Rancho is the first one built. It was built in 1941, ’40, ’41. Then the Last Frontier, which is the Frontier now, was built the next year, and in 1946, the Flamingo. I remember all the hotels here. After that came the Desert Inn, the Dunes, and a whole bunch of ‘em, you know, almost at the same time. I remember the Thunderbird opened in 1948 and ’49, you know. During the winter of ’48 and ’49. I was at that opening. I was at the opening of the Sahara, which was in 1952, I believe, used to be the Bingo Club. It was way out of town. I went to the opening of that. I went to the opening of Stardust, Dunes, Riviera. Then I got tired of ‘em. I didn’t go to the Hilton or the MGM or anything of those. I don’t go to the hotels much anymore. Interest I guess has worn off. Do you remember the fire at El Rancho Vegas? Sure do. The fire at the El Rancho was in 1960. And I believe it was in the summer of 1960. But I was going to summer school in Reno, working on my master’s, while the (unintelligible) burned down. But my wife was here and she saw—saw the fire and drove out by there and watched it. And I’m almost sure it was the summer of 1960 that it burned down, or early in the summer of 1961. In both summers I went to university (unintelligible) then they were going to rebuild it. And build a bigger and better hotel that they never had. It was a vacant lot now. That was the most—one of the most popular hotels—? Yes. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 11 At the time wasn’t it? Yes. Do you—did you see any of the stars there? Yes. I saw Andy Sheridan and I can’t remember now. But I— What time did the hotel (unintelligible)? It’s the (unintelligible) Hotel. It had a showroom and lounge and bar. And it had cottages outside. I came home on (unintelligible) one time from the Army. This is 1942, and my mother took me and my sister-and-law up there and we all had chicken dinner, just $4.95, for three of us. Now it costs $17 a piece. (Laughs) It was a very plush hotel? Yes. It’s very well— Timely. Well, for that time. Uh-huh. Very nice. Very friendly, a lot of local people went down there. Were you active in politics and stuff like that? Yes. I ran for Justice of the Peace in 1948, and there were twelve of us running. And I ran fifth. Course the town was very small in those days. To show you how small it was, I—I ran fifth and I got six hundred votes. Now if you ran fifth or something, you could get about, maybe fifteen thousand votes, you know. And in 1962, I ran for Board of Regents, University of Nevada. But I didn’t make it. I didn’t make either just the (unintelligible) Board of Regents. I ran third that year. Two were—two were elected. Excuse me, I ran—I ran third, and one was elected. Two higher, highest ran it on up. Other than that it’s—oh, and I was president of the Young UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 12 Democrats of Washoe County, when I was going to university. Member of the state Young Democrats. Member of Clark County Young Democrats. In recent years I haven’t been active, no. Do you remember much about early politics? I—sure, yes. I remember. Course, I’ve studied it all, too. And I know it, from the first governor to the present and everything. My brother was Grant Sawyers appointment in the Nevada Industrial Commission. And he held that job for eight years. I knew him real well. But I’ve known them all, and known all of the senators and governors. What I’ve, you know, witnessed during my lifetime and of course I’ve—I’ve majored in History, too. I know, Nevada History very well. Do you think the mafia had any control of Las Vegas in the gaming industry, or to a lesser extent politics in Las Vegas? Well, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think the old tax commission and now the gaming control board is controlled quite well. They could have. But I don’t think so. I don’t think they’ve had much control. Course, they say—now like Bugsy Siegel, he came out and he opened the Flamingo and then Wilbur Clark and some would say that he might’ve had some connections. But I don’t think so. Now I don’t know. Now the hotels and everything is controlled by big co-operations now. They could have had some control on it but I don’t think so. I remember when Frank Sinatra invited a friend of his and he had—he was a shady character, and they took—but they made him sell out at the (unintelligible) in Lake Tahoe. So I think they controlled it quite well. Do you remember any other important events in Las Vegas? Do you remember Joe McCarthy coming in, in the ‘50s? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 13 Yes. Joe McCarthy came in the ‘50s and he was the reason he came in was because Allen Bible was running for senator, and a new comer came in to Nevada by the name of Tom Mekly. He came in and he filed for a senator on the democratic ticket, and so did Allen Bible. And Allen Bible was supposed to be a cinch. He was supposed to walk away with the election. But as it happened, Mekly won the election. Then he went against George W. Molly Malone. And Joe McCarthy came in and he was to speak for Molly Malone. And Hank Greenspun, who is—owns the Sun, was writing articles about McCarthy, how he had—how phony he was and how he had gotten a purple heart during the war, and he shouldn’t have, and this. And that night over—they had the meeting at the old City Hall, right where the new city hall is now. But it was the old one that the small building. And McCarthy was given Hank Greenspun heck and then Greenspun went up on the roster, where they had a big argument with him. It’s quite a (unintelligible) and as it happened Meckling was supposed to beat Malone but Malone and Meckling and Bible split the Democratic Party and Molly Malone won the election. Do you remember anything else about recreation in Las Vegas? Did you gamble? Oh, I never did gamble very much. Once in a while I did. When I was single I’d go out to gamble once in a while. They’ve had some big fights here. And I used to rep the fights. I refereed the Nino Valadez and I can’t think of the other name. Nino Valadez when he fought the—when he fought Archie Moore, I refereed that fight. Several times I was a judge at the fight. Some of the big, big fights. Sugar Ray and Fulmer, they—Sugar Ray Robinson and Gene Fulmer fought here. And I was a judge at that fight. But I don’t do that anymore. Where were the fights held? Nino Valadez and Archie Moore was at the old Cashman Field in back of the Elks. And then, years ago I used to referee fights out in back of the Silver Slipper, there was a racetrack out UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 14 there. And they had fights there every week. And then the Fulmer Robinson fight was at the convention center, which is (unintelligible) and then, years ago right Downtown, at the old Elks building we used to have fights. And I used to fight down there or referee and when I was a kid I used to fight down there. Fought in the gold—I fought in the Golden Gloves here in 1941, and won the lightweight championship, and it was held in back of the post office Downtown on Third and Stewart. There was a—that’s where they used to have the Helldorado Rodeos every year. Then, other recreation is my brother used to be Sports Editor at the Journal and in the Sun and Wrangler and Baseball team used to be here. Do you remember anything of Helldorodo? About when it got started? Yes. I was here when it started. It started in 1935 or maybe a year off. Maybe ’34. And the Helldorado Village was at Sixth and Fremont. Where the old Sears building is. Now it’s the telephone company. Sixth and Fremont, across the street from the El Cortez. There is a Village and they had it there. It was there two years and then the Helldorado Village was moved down to Bonanza and Las—North—Bonanza and Las Vegas Boulevard North. Right there and it was there. Ten or fifteen years, and then it was moved to where it is now, on Washington and about Seventeenth Street now. But I— Do you remember how it got it’s name? The Elks—The Elks started the Helldorado and they—they still—still put it on. They’ve named it—I don’t know how they got the name. Was there any famous people in town? Yes. Roy Rogers used to come. And Dick Farrain used to come lead the parade. And Roy Rogers did several times. Gene Audrey did one year. (Unintelligible) Do you think the quality of the festivities has declined (unintelligible)? UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 15 Well, I think it has—in the old days everybody took part in it. And it was—it was the real thing. It still is, but I think now there’s a lot for the tourists and stuff. The rodeo, I always liked to go to the rodeo. And the rodeo used to be where I was telling you in back of the post office on Third and Stewart Street. Now it’s out at the Convention Center. Then they moved it—after the—after being in back of the post office they moved it over to Cashman Field for several years. Now it’s at the Convention Center. But it used to be a real thing. Was there anything else besides the parade and the rodeo? Yes. And the (Unintelligible) Beauty Parade. It was always a local girl who won. We always knew her. They had the Old-Timers Parade. They had the Children’s Parade. I guess they still have now. I’ve been to—I haven’t seen any of the parades that recently—but I never missed any of the first twenty or so. But on Thursday, they used to have—on Thursdays, they used have the Old-Timers Parade, on Friday, they’d have—there wasn’t the parade. And on Saturday, it was the Children’s Parade and on Sunday was the Beauty Parade. It was quite a deal. Do you remember any of the people in the Bathing Beauty Parade? Yes. Nadine Truly won the first Bathing Beauty Parade. Bathing Beauty Contest. Nadine Truly, she’d married to Lee Ronald now. She’s Archie Lee’s sister. The ex-city manager. He was city manager till about a year ago. She won the first one. Then Gerald Dean Scofield, who married Pat Disk and she was a Bathing Beauty Queen. She’s—in fact, she still is in Las Vegas. They named the school for her husband, Pat Disick. Course he died and she’s remarried. I believe she was either the second or third Bathing Beauty. Had to have been the first two or three. I—I remember who some of ‘em were but I don’t remember what year, they were queens. Mm-hmm. Bonnie Buck was queen one year. I grew up in Boulder City. And why, I can’t remember now. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 16 Do you remember when the Test Site came? Test Site started in—I remember I was—I’d just gotten out of the service and I was—I was working as a fireman out at Nellis when they decided—they thought they were gonna have the Test Site. Then I went into Reno to finish my schooling. And they opened it up, I believe in 1950, or ’51. And when I graduated I came back and when they’d have a shot we used to get on top of the post office down at Stewart and Third, and we could see the flash sometimes. We did that. What were the flashes like? Oh, it was just like—oh maybe the sun just rising, just for a minute. Hm. No, not for a minute. For a few seconds. And it was quite the deal. Now they have shots, we don’t think anything of. Well, those were aboveground. Now they’re not. Yes. Right. Now they’re underground, yes. But I remember twice going on top of the post office, Downtown. Of course, in those days, that was about the tallest building in town. Three stories. Three or four stories. I think it’s a four story. About five in the morning, and this shot would go off and you could see the flash there. Sometimes you’d see the flash, or we thought we saw it or something. (Unintelligible) Do you think the Test Site created any changes in Las Vegas to the economy? Oh, I think it did. I think it helped—well, I’ll say at that time, Las Vegas was twenty-four thousand people. Put a lot of people to work. I think it was quite significant. I mean, now in the town, in this area down here, is about three or four hundred thousand, you know, taking in the whole area. But when you have a town like when it first opened, twenty-four thousand, I think UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 17 it’s quite significant. Quite important. Put a lot of people to work. A lot of people made more money than they ever made before getting all that overtime at the—when it was first opened, people were getting all kinds of overtime, making very good money. (Tape one ends) Mr. Heckethorn, do you remember any of Howard Hughes’s earlier days and his purchases and clients and, you know? Yes. I—I remember when he bought when he bought the—sir, I believe it was several hundred acres of land up here a little ways from Jones Boulevard, and a little ways from Charleston. It’s called the Hughes Site. And I believe he’s had that twenty—twenty, twenty-five years. Maybe even a little longer than that. But I remember when he bought it, and he was—it was quite a deal and as property was, it’s supposed to be too valuable, which you can see, that it’s very valuable now, and I believe it’s a few hundred acres. But if you look on the map of Southern Nevada, you can see it’s on there as Hughes Site. Then he—I remember when he first started buying the hotels, Las Vegas was in a recession at that time, or a slight Depression. What—what year was this? I, I’m—I think it was ’63 or 1963 or 1964. Believe it was 1964. And then, he bought the Sands and then he bought the Castaways and it seemed like every week he was buying something. And then they—it encouraged people. I believe he helped Las Vegas or Nevada come out of the recession period. And he bought the mining claims, several thousand mining claims. I believe thousand, maybe several hundred up around Virginia City and Goldfield. And he bought the two airports. And I believe he helped Nevada come out of the Depression, out of the slight recession. Do you remember when he first came to Las Vegas? Ah. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 18 When people really noticed him or felt his presence. Yes. Yes. Yes, about twenty years ago, I remember, uh-huh. Was he as secretive then as—? Yes. Uh-huh. Course wasn’t when he was in Hollywood making pictures and stuff, he wasn’t secretive. But right after that it seems that he went undercover and became very secretive. Do you know very much about the history of Las Vegas? I know—yes, a lot about it. I’ve studied it, yes, everything now. The Mormons first came here and they stopped right over where the Elks is now. That was the old Mormon station. I believe they’re gonna make a museum out of it. Yes. I think they have started over there. Something over there. I read in the papers just the other day. But this was kind of a stopping of place for travelers going to California, as they’re coming across the hot desert here. Las Vegas had a lot of artesian wells, in those days. Do you remember the names that they used to call it before? Not right off hand I don’t, no, no. I know what it was, is the old—the Old Ranch, which later became the Elks. The Elks Hall is there now—used to be a swimming pool when I was kid there, I used to go to the Old Ranch there, and there was a swimming, there was a public swimming pool, we used to go swimming there, and he had a few cabins. Stewarts Ranch or something was (unintelligible) Did you know anybody who worked there who was associated with it? Yes. I remember when Mrs. Foremaster owed the Old Ranch. I don’t know who she got it from. I think she—I think she got it from the Stewart family, and then, after that I don’t know who got it. But I—I remember Mrs. Foremaster, she owned it. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 19 There’s been kind of a discrepancy about how the Old Fort used to look, back when it wasn’t the Mormon Fort. Do you know? I don’t. Can’t remember. Do you remember anything about the old buildings? Just what I’ve—no, I don’t know. Were there—it seems like now Las Vegas is pretty treeless except for trees that people have brought in. But do you remember early Las Vegas, tree lined streets or? Yes. There were tree lined streets and there were usually cottonwood trees. And— That was naturally, wasn’t it? Uh-huh. And they would—you know, Las Vegas had a lot of artesian wells and a lot of streams. They had a creek running through the center of town. Right at—well, it follows the Fremont Expressway down. And it went right through Stewart. It was a block north of Stewart and went right on down to about—well, it went to the Old Ranch, that’s how they got their swimming pool and stuff there. Went right on out and—to about 30th Street. Course it’s dried up now. And there was a lumber company here. Water Shack Lumber Company was downtown on Main Street and the creek ran right through the lumber company. Can you remember the lumber company? Oh yes. Water Shack Lumber Company. Yes. Uh-huh. Was it very prosperous? Oh yes. It was—there were only two or three lumber companies in those days: Von Tobels and Water Shack. Mrs. Water Shack or her relatives now give a scholarship to—I think one scholarship to a graduating senior from the Las Vegas area. I believe she died a couple years ago, UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 20 though. I knew her—I knew Mr. Water Shack, but he’s been dead years and years. But I remember him. That’s kind of hard to believe about the stream being that wide or deep. Yes. We used— It’s (unintelligible) Then there was a couple places there where we went swimming when we were kids. And it was right over by not too far from where Sears Substation is on the Highland. Course it would be a little north of there. There was supposed to be an artesian well, now where the water district. Uh-huh. There was, uh-huh. That’s how we got our water for—before Lake Mead was here. How deep was the creek? Deep enough to swim in I’d say. At the—some of the—some places oh, four or five feet deep. But I’d say the average was about three or four feet deep. Three deep. (Laughs) But there were two places that were white and they was right over, just a little ways from the Westside in those days. And we’d go over there, and there were all kinds of green grass and trees, and we used to swim over here. And it was about—at this particular place it was four or five feet deep. It was a mud hole, is what it was. But. (Laughs) Was it a popular place? Yes. Yes. Not too far from the back of the Union Plaza, really. Now there’s a road that comes down and out, then goes into the railroad yards, and around, and then hooks unto Bonanza Road. (Unintelligible) But you can see where the creek ran if you go down the Fremont Expressway. There’s a (unintelligible) UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 21 Yes. And then they’ve—they’ve cemented in where—where the water used to run down and everything. But it ran down the Fremont Expressway. And then it went south, then right down almost into town. Almost into town, you know, where it went through Water Shack, plumber company, and then it was on over to the Old Ranch, where the elks is, then on down. It was pretty accessible then? Yes. Uh-huh. How—was the Westside a Black area? (Unintelligible) Westside in those days had one family of Blacks. The Boyd family. And I know ‘em very well. The rest were White—Whites, and a few Mexicans. What year was this? Nineteen thirty. Or 1930 to 1942. What brought the Blacks in was when they were building the Magnesium Plant in Henderson in 1942, the Blacks came in and they landed over in Westside. But up until 1942, a lot of—a lot of people lived over there. A lot of prominent people. Course like I say, that’s where I lived when I first came here. Came down from St. George. In those days, the Blacks, what Blacks Las Vegas had lived on North Third between Stewart and Clark, and Stewart and Ogden Street, right by the Post Office. And on First Street from Stewart to Bonanza. There weren’t many—many Black families in Las Vegas. Is there any other stories that you could tell us about changes in Las Vegas? Well, I don’t know. (Laughs) Let’s get back to education. Aright. What can you tell us about early education in Las Vegas? Like from your personal experience. UNLV University Libraries Howard Heckethorn 22 Early education? Right. Well, you mean the schools and stuff? Okay. When I—when I came down I went to the third grade over on the Westside and it was a K-3 school, which is kindergarten, first, second, and third. Then when you finished in third you went over to Fifth Street School, and fourth on up through the eighth. Like I say, when I was in the fifth grade—‘cause I teach fifth grade now, and I always say every year, I tell my kids, when I was in the fifth grade, my school burned down. And then, for the next two years I went to school in the tents. What type of buildings did you attend before the tents? It was that old—just a brick structured school on, between Fourth and Fifth Street on—it was on between Fourth and Fifth on Bridger and Clark Street. I attended that. But there were several separate buildings. But the biggest building, in 1934 burned down. That’s where the fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth grades went out. And like I say, it’s—Las Vegas, they didn’t have too much money so they’d go to tents until they passed—or till they got (unintelligible) that’s the money to build a new school. And it was in the paper, two or three weeks ago about how much the new school costs. I think it was a hundred and fifty thousand or so. Then I went—after I graduated from the new grammar schools, course it was built when I—while I was going to the sixth and seventh grade and I was the first class to graduate from the new Fifth Street Grammar School. Then after that I went over to the Las Vegas High School, which was on Seventh Street, which was the only high school in the—in this area at the time. Boulder City kids came in on the bus to Las Vegas High and the only other high schools in Clark County at that time I believe were Moapa, Virgin Valley, and Las Vegas High, I guess. Now right here in Las Vegas you have about thirteen high schools already. Whe