Transcript of interview with Sandra Peña by Lada Mead and Stefani Evans, March 27, 2017

i AN INTERVIEW WITH SANDRA PEÑA An Oral History Conducted by Lada Mead and Stefani Evans The Building Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©The Building Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2017 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editor: Stefani Evans, Elsa Lopez Transcribers: Kristin Hicks, Frances Smith Interviewers: Stefani Evans and Claytee D. White Project Manager: Stefani Evans iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of the UNLV University Libraries. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea and the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Building Las Vegas Oral History Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iv PREFACE Sandra Peña’s story begins in East Los Angeles, where she spent her first fifteen years with her parents (both from Michoacán, Mexico), and her younger sister. The father's managerial position at Master Products allowed the family to live rent-free in a company-owned house behind the main factory, because he collected the rents for the company's two other dwellings. In this interview, Peña recalls the family move to Porterville, in California's Central Valley, her return to Los Angeles at nineteen, and her work with Parson’s Dillingham, a contractor for the Metrolink rail system. She draws the link between the Los Angeles and Las Vegas construction communities by describing her husband's move to Las Vegas to find work; a chance Las Vegas encounter with a friend from Chino, California; her ability to gain employment in Las Vegas at Parson’s, a company that had joint ventured with Parson’s Dillingham, and her move from there to Richardson Construction, a local minority-owned company. As Peña says, "It's kind of all intermingled. Even if you go here and you go there, it's like everybody knows everybody." Throughout, Peña weaves her family story into the narrative as she describes her youth, the birth of her son, the illness and death of her father, and her family's participation in her current employment with Richardson. As she remembers the people, places, and events of her life, Peña speaks to the ways one woman of color built on her interstate construction connections and rose in a male-dominated industry. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Sandra Peña March 27, 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Lada Mead and Stefani Evans Preface………………………………………………………………………………….………..iv Childhood in East Los Angeles; father's work and housing; mother's work, and family move to Porterville, California. Technical school, Metrolink, pregnancy, and husband's move to Las Vegas to work in construction. Son's birth and father's illness and death. Move to Las Vegas and role as stay-at-home mom; Parson’s Dillingham, Metrolink, and professional connections; Rancho High School project and Richardson Construction. Louis Richardson as employer, and Harris Associates…….…………………………………………………………………......…..1–9 Richardson Construction, Louis Richardson, and being a woman of color in a male-dominated environment; working for a minority-owned business. Closeness of California construction circle, even in Las Vegas. Career and family involvement…………………………….……18–20 Future of Richardson Construction, municipal projects, and Raider’s Stadium. Life and schooling in East Los Angeles; collecting rents from co-workers who lived in company housing; Porterville ………………………………………………………….……………………………….……20–27 vi 1 Today is March 27th, 2017. My name is Lada Mead and with me is Stefani Evans and we are interviewing Sandra Peña at the Richardson Construction building on West Gowan in Las Vegas, Nevada. Okay, Sandra, so tell us about your early life. Early life? Yes, anything you'd like to cover. Well, I grew up in East Los Angeles. I was there for about fifteen years. My dad worked at a manufacturing company that made the hole punchers, office supplies and stuff like that, like all those binders. I never knew until later, but he was a manager there and the owner of the company had some houses nearby. It was kind of like a bad neighborhood. It wasn't a bad neighborhood, it was just there were no houses. It was all industrial and there were these three houses on this lot. My dad was one of his trusted guys. My dad worked with him forever and he didn't have any grandchildren. So, he saw us as his grandkids. He let my dad live in the house. He said, "You know what? I'll let you live in the house for free. Just pick up the rents for me for the rest of the houses and you can live here for free." And he worked right across the street. And my mom worked there, too, eventually when she started to work. She worked there. So, it was convenient because they were right across the street. So, we lived there until I was about fifteen, and then he retired and he wanted to move. He didn't want to live in L.A. anymore. It was too crazy of a city. He moved us up north by Bakersfield. STEFANI: Oh, what town? Porterville, California. That was a total shock because it's like in the middle of nowhere. It's farm, agriculture. I was like, where are we living? And you were in high school. Yes, I was in high school. It was two years before I graduated high school. I was like, "I don't want to go. Let me stay." Because we had family still in California. My mom had sisters and stuff. I'm like, "Just let me stay two more years. Let me finish high school and then I'll go over there." No, no, no, no, no. I'm like, "Oh, my gosh." So I rebelled. They were trying to find a house, so they would go up there during the weekend to look at houses, and he'd be like, "Come up with us so you can look at the houses and you can pick out a room." And I was like, "No, I'm not going until I have to leave. That's when I'm going to go." Everybody knew me as Sandra. No one called me Sandy. But in Porterville, I said, "Well, my name is not Sandra no more; my name is Sandy. I'm going to be Sandy." I remember I put Sun In in my hair and I got a perm. So that's how I rebelled. I was being a rebel. I was changing my name and changing my hair color. That's how everybody knows me now, Sandy. It's funny 2 because when I would call my friends back from L.A., I'd be like, "Oh, it's Sandy." And they'd be like, "Sandy? What's that?" I'm like, "Oh, Sandra." Because everybody knew me as Sandra. So I finished my high school up there and I went to the community college for a few years. I didn't like it up there and I was in this relationship I wanted to get out of. My dad [Carlos Gomez] hated him. So I was like, "You know what? I think I'm going to move back down to California." I had a couple of girlfriends that I had met in Porterville that moved out to L.A. to go to college and he really liked them. So he was like, "Okay." I was like, "What? Did you just say okay? You didn't want to leave me here before, but now you're like, go ahead?" I think I was nineteen when I moved back down to L.A. and that's how I got into the construction because one of the girls that I moved down with worked for the Metrolink. They're still building all that stuff down there. So she got me a job there with the Metrolink with the beginning phases of it. So that's how I got into construction. Where was your mother during that period? Working. They were both working. When he retired, we all moved to Porterville and then she kept working at a packing house, at an orange packing house. So she worked there for a while. We lived in Porterville, but then he moved us to Strathmore because the packing house my mom worked at was in Strathmore and it was down the street from the house he bought. So he didn't have to drive her back and forth because my mom never learned how to drive. So she doesn't drive. So she would rely on him. That way if she had to get to work there were other ladies that sometimes would go by and pick her up, stuff like that. Then the weather gets really ugly out there, a lot of fog. But she worked, too. Then I have a sister, also. Younger? Younger, a younger sister. So what did your parents aspire for you to be when you grew up? What was their dream? I don't know that they aspired for me to be anything. My dad always pushed us to study and always made us speak Spanish at home, always. When we were at home, we couldn't speak English. You speak Spanish at home; you can speak English when you're not here. So at home we always spoke Spanish. So that was a good thing. That's one thing with my kids, too, I always wanted them to learn Spanish. It's weird because my sister's daughters speak it, but they don't speak it as fluent as my boys. But then my ex-husband speaks only Spanish. So I think I had easier in that aspect. But he always pushed me for that and he always pushed me to study. He's like, "You don't want to end up in a factory working like me. You want to get a good job and have benefits. Don't use your credit because credit is bad. Don't be using credit cards." He was always everything cash, everything cash. So in the back of my head I'm like, okay. I do use 3 credit cards, but I'm not crazy. I'm like, zero percent. Oh, I get zero percent. Let's pay it off so we don't have to pay that extra interest. It's kind of like free money that you have on the side. But he was happy when he heard I got the job at the Metrolink and my girlfriend got me in because I didn't have any experience in construction. But I was like, "Okay, let's do it." What is your ethnic background, by the way? Where do your ethnic roots come from? My mom was born in Mexico. My dad was born in Gary, Indiana, but his parents were from Mexico, too. He was probably about a year old when they took him back to Mexico. He was born here, but he was raised in Mexico. When you were in school did you have any particular interests, any idea what you wanted to become later on? I kind of wanted to be a travel agent because I wanted to travel. I like to travel. I haven't traveled that much, but I have traveled some. But I've always been real outgoing. I like to go places. My dad—I remember when we used to go to Mexico because we always used to go in the summer; we used to go for a month—he used to say, "Jeez, we're not even in the town when you're already getting out of the car. We haven't made it to the house and you're like, 'Okay, see you.'" Because I was always out. He would call me...It's this phrase in Spanish. I don't know how to translate it into English. But he would say, “Pata de Perro” just like I'm always walking around like the dogs, just roaming, like, "Jeez, you don't sit still." My sister was the opposite. My sister was always with my mom and dad. I'd be out and she'd be over there with them. I was always more independent, I think. So what part of Mexico? They're from the state of Michoacán. What town? My mom Panindícuaro and my dad was raised more in a town called Ziquítaro. Do you have any particular questions about the early life section? When you're done. I have all kinds of questions about East L.A. and Central Valley. After you graduated high school what happened after that After that, like I said, I went to the community college for maybe a year or two, but I was just like, "I don't even know what I want to do." I wanted to be a travel agent, but I didn't really pursue it. So when I moved down to L.A., I went to a computer college. So I got into computers, just word processing. All that stuff was barely getting started. So that's where I got the job at the 4 construction because I had the computer skills. So I was like, okay. But that's basically as far as education that was just a... what do you call them? Like a technical school? Oh, okay. So what phase was Metrolink in at the time? It was just the beginning because that was twenty-two years ago. Yes, my son, is twenty-two and I was working there before I got pregnant with him. So probably like twenty-three years ago. So the beginning phases of it, yes. So that was interesting. I'm still so impressed because there's still so many other stuff that is still going on. My girlfriend that got me in with that company—well, Parsons Dillingham was the name of the company. She's still in the construction area still with the development of all the Metrolinks and I guess all the other stuff. I haven't even rode on it since I was there the last time. Any time I go down there...I don't think I've gotten on it recently. But it's really interesting. There's big jobs going down out there. Oh, yes. So how did you end up here in Vegas? Did you move with your family? My ex-husband. There was a lot of construction on. It was booming over here. Work down there wasn't that much and it's just so expensive in L.A. Everything was so cheap here, rent and stuff like that. There was so much work. So he moved up here and I stayed down there because I was pregnant with my son. I was like, "You know what? Let me stay here because I have insurance. If I leave what if something happens and we don't have any insurance?" Good thing I did because my son was premature, and I had to have an emergency C-section and he had to be in the hospital for two weeks in the ICU. So I'm like, oh, my God, imagine if I would have came, I would have had no insurance. We would have been upside down with that. I'd still be paying for my son right now probably. So what year was that you came? Ninety-five, September of '95. I remember it was hell. It was like, oh, my God, where did I move? Because I lived in California all my life and then you come to Vegas in September, and it's not even the hottest month. But to me it was like, oh, my gosh, we're in hell. Where did you live? In L.A. I was living in Long Beach. Oh, here? When we barely moved here we lived up on the ghetto, Civic Center and Cheyenne. So right in that back area. Yes, bad part of town. With a new baby. Yes, with a new baby. What were your first impressions of Vegas besides the weather? 5 The weather. I think just the weather. I was used to living in a city and busy and stuff like that, L.A., but just the weather. I think that's what impressed me was the shock. It was like, oh, my God. And just the people, there's so many different types of people. You meet people from all over the world. I don't think you do as much in L.A. I don't know if it's because it's bigger. I love Vegas. I love living here and I've gotten used to the weather. People call me. They're like, "How do you live here?" I'm like, "You get used to it." When it's ninety-five, you're like, "It's so nice." They're like, "What are you talking about? It's hot." I'm like, "No, that's nice for us." Does your sister also live here? No, she lives in California. She lives over in the San Fernando Valley. I don't even know. Somewhere down there. Your parents? My mom lives with my sister and my dad passed away. He passed away a long time ago, twenty-three years ago. So what did your family think about you moving here? They were happy, I guess, because I was already living in L.A. So I wasn't living with them anymore. I was living in L.A. with my ex-husband. Then I was pregnant. My dad kind of was happy I stayed also because of the insurance and stuff because he was always, "Maybe just wait." It was funny because I had just found out I was pregnant like maybe a week before he passed away, I remember. I come from a Mexican Catholic family, so you're not supposed to have sex before you get married. I remember when I was younger he would always be like, "If you ever get pregnant, I'll disown you." Well, they have to scare you, right? So you'd be like, "Oh, my gosh." I was twenty-four and I was going, "Oh, my God, what am I going to do?" I had had a cousin of mine that had gotten pregnant. She was the same age as me, but she was younger when she had hers. I think she was like twenty-one. But she hid her pregnancy from her parents until eight months. She would put things on her stomach so she wouldn't show and they didn't find out until she was almost eight months pregnant. I was like, "Wow. I can't do that. I have to tell them." So I remember I called them one time and I was in L.A. My mom answered the phone, I think—no, my dad. I said, "Oh, where's my mom? Well, tell her to get on the other line." Then I said, "I don't want to have to repeat myself twice." He's like, "Oh, did you get a raise?" I'm like, "Kind of, I guess." So I told them and I was like, oh, my God, I was expecting the worst. But I'm like, I have to tell them. I remember I told them and he was like, "Ah, Mija, you're down there by yourself." Because I didn't really have any family in California. He's thinking then that if they were there they could help me or whatever. But he took it really well. Then a week after I told them, he passed away. Oh, that's so nice he knew. 6 Yes. But at least I got to tell him and he wasn't mad. He didn't disown me. That's always a plus, always good. I remember before he passed away he called my sister because I was living in L.A. when my ex-husband moved up here because he moved up before me. I stayed in L.A. and I lived with my sister in Burbank. He called my sister. I think I was asleep or I don't know where I was. But my older sister—because I have an older sister. She's my half-sister because my dad was married before he married my mom. So I was living with her and he called her and he told her, "Take care of your sister. She's going to need you. She's having a baby." I was like, oh, my God. That always makes me sad because I didn't get to see him before he passed away. But he knew. You made sure. Yes. I actually have a similar experience. I don't want to share it over the interview, but I completely understand. So when you first came here to Las Vegas what were your thoughts about a job or what were you thinking about? I had a newborn baby and my ex was like, "I don't want you to work. Who's going to take care of the baby? We don't know anybody." I was thinking the same thing. But it was weird because I have always worked. I have worked since I was maybe—not always, but when you first start working, sixteen, seventeen, even McDonalds or the supermarket or the video store or wherever. I always had a job. My sister was the opposite. She didn't ever work. She didn't want to work. She got married and still now she doesn't work. But you were the social butterfly. Yes, yes. What was the question? I got sidetracked by my sister. Jobs. When did you start working here? I'm still sidetracked. I didn't even know what I was thinking or what I was saying. I totally, totally got lost. Can you ask me the question again? Sure. Just when you first came here to Vegas, what in general did you think about doing? Well, I wasn't thinking about doing anything because I was going to be a stay-at-home mom. I was just like, oh, okay. I think I stayed home for about the first three years and that was hard because I was used to having my own money, having my job. Now it's like, okay, how do you ask for money? I'm not used to ask somebody for money. I'm used to being independent. So that 7 was kind of hard on me. It wasn't too hard, but it was just weird. I knew I wasn't going to be home forever. Then we found our neighbor that lived right across from the apartments we lived in. She was super nice. At first it was my sister-in-law taking care of my son. But my son, every time I dropped him off, crying, crying, crying. He didn't want to stay there; didn't want to stay there. I'm going, what are they doing to him? She had a little girl the same age as him, but she was such a bully. You know you have these little mean kids? She was a bully and she still is. So I remember going, she probably beats up on him. Mine was real quiet. He didn't bother nobody. He used to hate going there, hate it, hate it, hate it. So then we found this lady that lived across the street and started taking him there across the apartments. My front door was there and her front door was there. I started taking him there. Even when I picked him up, he didn't want to come home. Perfect. So then I was like, okay. So then I started working. Oh, I got a job here through another lady that I had met down in L.A. when I worked at the Metrolink that moved here. So she called me and she was like, "Hey, do you need a job?" I'm like, "Yes." He was already three or four, something like that. So I'm like, okay, I'll start working; it's time to start working. So I got a job. Here? Well, not here. It was actually with Parsons again because the company down in California was Parsons Dillingham. They're two different companies, but they joint ventured there. So they were doing the Metrolink down there. Up here Parsons was the construction manager for the schools. So then I got hired on through Parsons and I was the project admin for one of the schools, which was Rancho High School. Rancho High School, the GC that was building it, was Richardson Construction. But I was working for Parsons. So Mr. Richardson's guy that was there, the superintendent, got to know me and stuff. He loved me. I remember he told Lou, "You need to hire her." Lou didn't even interview me. He hired me without asking me nothing. When the job ended they laid me off over there and he was like, "You need to hire her." Then he hired me. I remember when I came to work here, I was like, oh, my God, this guy is crazy. He was just ruthless. I was like, oh, my God, I cannot work with this guy. I remember I worked maybe about a year or two and there had been two other ladies that were working here with him that I think kind of got jealous that I came in and they didn't really like it. I don't know. Things were going wrong with paperwork and stuff and they'd be like, "Oh, it's Sandy." I never realized it until after, awhile later. But he's like, "I'm going to have to lay you off." I was like, "Okay, that's fine." I was like, thank God, because I'm not a quitter. So I wasn't about to be like, "Hey, I quit. You're crazy." I was like, okay, I'm going to work and whatever. When he told me he laid me off, I went and looked for another job and I got hired at Harris Associates. I was like, oh, cool, I got a job. I 8 was happy. I just told him, "Well, can I at least get two weeks so I can hopefully get a job so I'm not without a job?" I didn't want to be without a job. He was like, "Yes, sure." So finally two weeks go by and I said, "I just came in to say thank you for the opportunity." Blah, blah, blah. He was like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, "You said you were laying me off." He was like, "Oh, no, no, no, I'm not laying you off." I'm like, "Excuse me? I already have another job." He's like, "Oh, no, tell them you're not going." I said, "I already told them I'd be there on Monday." I said, "I can't back out at the last minute." Like I said, I thought he was crazy. So bye. He was like, "Come on, I'll give you a raise, whatever you want. What do you want? What do you want so you can stay?" I'm like, "No, it's okay. I can't go back on my word. I gave them my word and I'm not going back on my word." Blah, blah, blah. So finally, I left. So I was gone maybe about a year and then Harris Associates went down and they laid off everybody. So I was like, oh, I guess I'll get unemployment for a couple of months. I'll look for a job and see what happens. Steven, my oldest son, was still little. So I was like, I can take him to school and do mom things that I can't because I'm working. So then I remember we had gone to Mexico for vacation and when I came back there was a note on my door. My cousin had taken it off, but when I got back there was a moment he was like, "Hey, some guy came looking for you." I'm like, "Who?" "He left you a note." It was Randy, the same guy that had told Mr. Richardson to hire me back then. Mr. Richardson had him go look for me to hire me back, to come back; that he had changed. The guy from Parsons? No, Randy. He's the one that got me the job here. Randy works with Mr. Richardson. So he's the one that went to my apartment, left a note, "Call us; Lou wants you back." He's like, "Sandy, he's changed. He's not the same no more." And I'm like, "Yeah, right." But then I think the second time around, I don't know, maybe I changed. Maybe he changed or I already knew how he was, so it wasn't so much of a...I already know the way he is. So I was like, "Okay, Mr. Richardson." But at first it was just such a shock, just his personality and the way he was that I was like, "He's crazy." See, it was too hard to give you up. Yes. But now one of the guys here is like, "Mr. Richardson, she's your monster. You see what you've created." Because he'll be like, "Sandy, I can't believe you told Mr. Richardson that." I'm like, "Well..." I tease him all the time. I remember one time. I didn't say he smelled, but I went in his office and I'm like, "What smells in here? Something smells in your office, Mr. Richardson." He has a shower in his restroom. So later he comes out. He's like, "Do I still smell, Sandy?" And I'm like, "I didn't say you smelled, Mr. Richardson. I said your office smelled." He went and took a shower. 9 What a character. So he always remember that. He's like, "Remember when you told me that I smelled, Sandy?" And I'm like, "I didn't say you smelled, Mr. Richardson. I said there was something that smelled in your office." I guess he thought maybe I smell. I scared the poor guy. So how many years was the time span between when you started at Parsons and up until he hired you the second time basically? Let me see. Steven was maybe about four when I started at Parsons and then that went on for about a year and a half. So maybe two, three...My son is twenty-two and I've been here like sixteen, because I count it from the beginning. I tell him, "I count it from the beginning; I'm not going to count that year that I left." When you had your vacation. Yes, when I had my vacation. I think that's the only time I've collected unemployment. That was the only time I haven't worked. Then when I got pregnant with my second son, I was like, "I'm going to take some time off. I'm going to stay home with the baby." I was still working here. He was like, "No, you can bring the baby to the office." I'm like, "I am not going to bring the baby to the office." And so I remember I was like, "I'll just work part-time. I'll come in two days of the week." Because I was crazy at home, too, because, like I said, I'm not used to being home, not being home and not getting a paycheck. I was freaking out. Slowly but surely, I came back full-time, probably three or four months after I had Adrian. But, yes, I don't know. My son is twenty-two. I've been here about—so maybe four years between Parsons and then the final stay here. How old were you at the time when you were hired again by Richardson? I was pregnant with Adrian. Adrian is going to be seventeen. So I was maybe thirty-two because I'm forty-seven. So that would be seventeen, right? Thirty-two? Something like that. I'm trying to do math in my head and I'm really bad at math. I'm not much of a math person either. So what would you say is your most positive experience working from Parsons up until, say, this point in time? What was the most memorable? Well, besides coming into Mr. Richardson's office and saying that your room smells. I don't know. Just everything. Mr. Richardson, like I said, he's the best. I love working for him. Like I said, I think at first it was just a shock the way he was and I didn't know how to handle him. I was just like, wow. Because before Parsons is such a big company, you don't really have that one on one with a smaller company. He's like in your face here. I always say I'm a project admin, but I'm everything here. Mrs. Richardson says I'm his second wife here at the office because I do everything. He'll be like, "Sandy, go pick up a prescription; Sandy, I need a ride to 10 the airport; Sandy, can you pick me up at the car dealer?" And I do all the paperwork. I type up all the contracts. I do all the submittals. You don't have a specific job here. You're just kind of it. That's why I think I was so shocked because at Parsons it was, this is what you do. You had a job description. Yes. You do this. This is all you do. You don't do nothing else. So besides running his life you run the office. Yes, yes. And you run the construction projects. Yes, yes. I book all his flights. I rent his cars, get his hotel rooms. The other day one of his sisters is really sick and...Like I said, he's a character. He's not like a very sentimental person, I guess I would say. He doesn't get sad or emotional. He's like, hey, it's life, just move on. I remember when usually people pass away, he's like, "Why are they going to the funeral? They're not going to know they are there." So his sister is dying. She's in a hospice or something. I said, "Mr. Richardson, are you going to go see your sister?" He's like, "I don't know because if I go, I'm probably going to have to turn right back around and go back for the funeral." I said, "Yes, but don't you say you should go when they're alive, not when they're dead because they don't even know you're there?" He just kind of looked at me like, yes, you're right. So an hour later he's like, "Sandy, can you check how much the flights are?" To go see his sister. I'm like, "Okay." He finally went. I said, "That was good you went. Was your sister happy to see you?" He's like, "Yes." I said, "That's good. That's good you went." We have to push at him a little because sometimes he's like, "Eh." But I'm like, "Hey, isn't that what you always say, you should see them when they're alive, not when they're dead?" How old is he, by the way, out of curiosity? He was born in '41. That's about the age of my father, actually. I know because my mom was born in—no, he was born in '40, 1940, and my mom was born in 1941. So that's how I always remember his birth year. I always know his birthday anyway because I always have to use it for booking his stuff. He's been around for a long time. Everybody knows him. I'm going to go ahead and move on to the next section unless you have any other questions. We're going to talk about the present now. What is your current job title? Like I said, project admin. That's my job title, but I do everything. 11 So what do you do besides Mr. Richardson's personal life? I set up all the projects in the computer system in Expedition and I set up all the files, all the project files. If they have any RFIs or submittals, I send out all the contracts to the subcontractors once they decide who they're going to go with. I make sure that everybody submits all their documents and stuff. I request all the bonds for the projects that we're bidding on and for the projects that we subsequently get. So I do all that stuff. Would you say you have more office work or do you also go out on the job sites? No, it's more office. Just solely office? Yes, yes. Usually I'm in. He doesn't usually have a project admin on site unless it's a really big job and he hasn't had a really big one. I think he used to have project admins out there. But I don't even think he had one because when I was out there I was the project admin for Parsons, but Randy didn't have one. So I don't think he usually has a project admin. He just has a superintendent and probably like an assistant superintendent, but that's about it. But everything comes through here. So if they need anything...I mean, nowadays it's so much easier because you get E-mails back and forth. Back then there was so much paper. I love it now that I don't have that much paperwork. When I get submittals, E-mails. Submittals, PDF files. It's so easy. So when somebody submits an RFP and they don't have a piece of paper, you're the one that has to chase it down? Yes. Oh, and Mr. Ric