Transcript of interview with Pat Geuder by Darryel Mayer, April 15, 1980

UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder i An Interview with Pat Geuder An Oral History Conducted by Darryel Mayes Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder iv Abstract On April 15, 1980, Darryel Mayes interviewed Pat Geuder, Ph.D., (born 1931 in Pontiac, Michigan) about her life in Las Vegas, Nevada. Geuder discusses in detail some of the changes that occurred over the years to the University of Nevada, Las Vegas campus, from the time she was a student to the then-present date when she worked as a professor. She specifically talks about the first buildings on campus, the development of nearby roads, and other changes over the years. Geuder also describes the enrollment of students, nearby housing, and her thoughts on the future of the campus. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 1 This interview is being held in the office of Dr. Geuder on the sixth floor in Room 603 in the Humanities building on campus of UNLV. I am interviewing Dr. Gueder, which is a professor at UNLV. My name is Darryel Mayes, I live on 4837 Deckow Lane, Apartment Number 9. Mrs. Geuder, how long have you lived in Nevada? I have lived here since July of 1957. When did you first arrive—when you first arrived, was teaching on your mind? Yes, we had come here specifically to accept teaching positions, both of us. So, you came here to teach? Yes, I did. What was the campus like at UNLV compared to now? When I first came, I did not come to teach at UNLV; rather, I came to accept a teaching position at Basic High School in Henderson. It was not until several years later that I started on my master’s degree at the university here. And when I first came here as a student, there was only one building on the entire campus: Grant Hall. So, it’s quite different. There is an immense difference; one can not only see the difference in the number of buildings and the number of students but also feel the differences that have come about since the early sixties when I was a student here. Was all this land still here? The land was here, but it was not developed; it was more of a dust bowl than anything else. Grant Hall had some green in front of it; the trees were twigs. And to each side of it, across from it, and behind it was nothing but desert. So that was kind of like the main office of the whole campus? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 2 Yes, it housed the administrative offices, it housed the library, it house faculty offices, and it housed the classrooms all at the same time—just Grant Hall. So how many students was the university offering? I don’t remember the exact number of courses that were being offered at the time. I’m really not in a position to say that. I think that there were both undergraduate and graduate courses that were being offered. I don’t remember the number of students, but it must have been very, very small at that time. So, you don’t have no idea what the enrollment was? I don’t remember what it was when I was a student here. At this time, were you just teaching English? Yes, I was teaching English at Basic High School, and I was working on my master’s degree. At that time, the master’s degree could not be completed here; one had to go to Reno and put in a number of hours there. So this was just sort of a partial campus in which one could receive part of a degree, not all of it. So, back then, how was the roadwork around the university? Maryland Parkway was a very narrow road—a lot of dust on each side of it. It was not the kind of concrete mass that we see today. The traffic was almost nonexistent, and the roads leading to the university to get to Maryland Parkway were just two two-lane roads, such as Sunset. In fact, it was considered dangerous to even drive on Sunset Road after dark, because there weren’t many cars on the road, and friends of mine used to warn me about trying to drive out here by myself on Sunset for fear I’d have a flat tire and I’d be stranded for hours out on the desert because so few cars traveled on those roads. Was it so busy as it is now? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 3 Oh, not at all. There is a distinct change not only in the number of cars but also in the amount of smog. I did not notice the smog at that time that I now notice. Was it more desert-like, I mean, there wasn’t too many buildings as there is now? There was an absence of building, absence of cars, and absence of people. Could you tell me, like, when the university really started developing and coming in larger? I think that I first noticed that it was growing several years after I had been on staff here. I came to the Department of English in 1966. During the academic year of ’70 and ’71, I had been granted a leave of absence to work on my doctorate, and I was gone that year. When I came back, I then could notice that buildings were beginning to rise in the campus, and of course since I was going to be in the Humanities building, I can remember the growth of that building in particular. I was on a committee that came over to inspect the progress and to see what the sixth floor would look like, and I was acutely aware of the knowledge that the building was here and that the campus growing out, but it was also growing up. I see they’re still building on and on, and so it should be larger in time to come. Yes, there will be more and more buildings on this campus. From my window, I can see the extension to the Dickinson Library, and I can remember when that entire library was housed in one small around in Grant Hall, and now there’s a separate building, and that building is being enlarged considerably. Did they have a P.E. complex then? No, the campus was not that complex at that time because of the low enrollment, as I recall, there probably wasn’t even a phys. ed. major that was given at that time—now, I can be wrong about it, but I know that there were no—I don’t think there were any teams at UNLV at that time. Was Valley Bank right down the street as it is now? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 4 No, Valley Bank was not even a dream at that time. I don’t remember exactly when it was built, but there was nothing around it except a small bookstore that was constructed, oh, I don’t remember the exact time, maybe beginning to mid-sixties, and I think that was one of the first buildings that came as an adjunct to the campus. Around the scenery, around UNLV, could you see big buildings, like on the Strip, from the air? Or were they laid up yet? Some of them were, but not as extensively. The skyline has become more cluttered; it used to be abroad expanse of desert with just a few buildings visible, and now that skyline has become quite crowded. What was really considered as the great scenery around Vegas in that time? You mean, the natural scenery? Yes, the natural scenery, like, you know the Strip, you know, what was, like, the main delight to come to Vegas in that time? Oh, I think it was and it still driving down the Strip at night and seeing all of the, what we thought were so many neon signs and the big buildings. At that time, the Old Strip was very popular then, wasn’t it? I’m not sure what you mean. The Old Strip is like the Golden Nugget and—? Oh, you’re speaking of Downtown. Yes. Oh, yes. When we first came here, the Downtown area probably excelled the Strip in many ways, and people flocked Downtown as they now flock to the Strip. Was the airport near us, was it there then? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 5 The first time that I flew out of Las Vegas was, I think, in ’58 or ’59, and there, of course, are many, many changes. One would not even recognize it as the same airport. It was where the Hughes Terminal is now located. It was just a very small operation in so many ways. I can remember the day that we flew out of here so well. But most of the people that visit Vegas, they probably drove. I think that driving to Las Vegas was probably a good deal more popular than flying to Las Vegas. Flying has become a means of communication for the common man, whereas flying, maybe twenty years ago, was for the uncommon person. Was Vegas as popular as it is now, I mean to, like, people who haven’t been here but heard about Vegas, the bright lights and everything? It has become increasingly popular; it has attracted worldwide attention, and now there are large tours of foreign persons who come here. I think this has been true for some time, but it’s the number of persons and the wide variety of persons who come here almost as a matter of course now. Okay. When you came to work, how long did it take? Was it quicker to get to here than it is now? Oh, yes. There were no speed zones, there were no school zones. The traffic was sparse. I think that it took much less time when I first began driving out here, and of course when I got here, there were places to park. There weren’t so many cars on the campus. So, it took a lot less time. So, now, what, do you have a registered parking place? Yes, I have. And that is an area, not a specific parking slot. But there is an area designed for faculty and staff in front of this building; you’re expected to park there, and there are penalties if we do not obey. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 6 How far do you live from the campus? I gauge that by minutes; eighteen minutes on a good day before school time, and after school time, if I start out after 7:30 in the morning, it takes me seven minutes longer. If I do not get here until almost 8:30, I would have to add probably another five minutes because I would have to park farther from the campus. I would have add maybe three or four more minutes in order to get onto an elevator, up to my office, and back down to the classes, because there are more faculty members, there are more students. It takes more time now. Okay, the land which the Boulevard is at, was that desert, or was it, like, was that smaller? The Boulevard had not yet been built. And I don’t remember what was there except land. I remember the Boulevard being built and thinking, “Isn’t this nice, Las Vegas is coming into its own, and we, too, will have a shopping mall.” That was before the Meadows and many of the other shopping areas that they have, sprung up around Las Vegas and in Las Vegas. So, what the campus really was, what, like a building and land just surrounding it? It was just isolated out here. There was a restaurant near here—the Alpine Village, the first location of the Alpine Village was about across from Grant Hall, and then of course the Alpine Village moved onto the Strip, and now it’s back on Maryland Parkway, but much farther down. Did they have many students stay on campus? Oh, there were no dormitories. Where did they stay? Many of the students lived at home, and many of them were adult students who were taking part-time courses at night and in the summertime for purposes of recertification. So, most of the students that were enrolled at UNLV were from Las Vegas? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 7 Yes, they were. The number of out-of-state students began to increase after UNLV had come into its own. At first, it was just a poorer sister to the Reno campus—it was just an extension of the University of Nevada in Reno. In fact, when someone said “University of Nevada,” it meant Reno; it didn’t mean Las Vegas at all. And then as the extension of services increased, the university as we now know it was called Nevada Southern University. It wasn’t till several years ago that it came into its own as the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Now, of course, we are superseding the number of students on the Reno campus. Could you tell me when the P.E. Complex came in? I can remember that it was built; I do not remember when it was built. There were so many activities going on simultaneously that involved me much more directly that I was not—I don’t know the exact year. Was it, like, each year, they would add another complex to the campus? It may seem that way. Actually, it was a rather steady progression of architecture that was routinely—it was part of a master plan. And the Board of Regents would review the plan and then allocate, would be able to secure allocation funds from the legislature. It did not happen in one year; it has been a steady progression from Grant Hall, one building, to the UNLV campus as we now know it. Did UNLV own all this land? I don’t remember for sure, but I don’t think so, because I can remember reading about the purchase of various parcels. There was no houses around here where the complexes are now? Not immediately so. There were some apartments, as I recall, across the street. I think that those apartments still stand, but they don’t stand out the way they once did. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 8 So, was Safeway Shopping Center over there? No, that was not there at all. There was practically nothing there. It was just, like, bare, right? Quite bare, mm-hmm. Did they have as many lights as they do on Maryland Parkway? No. It was rather dark. In fact, I’m not even sure there was any provision for lighting for night parking out here, even though I attended some night classes out here. I don’t remember there was any organized parking, lighting, specific places where one had to park. You parked where you could find it, and there was plenty of space. Well, like, driving in that time, was it, like, driving at your own risk? I mean, without, like, any stoplights, you know, telling you when to stop, or? The flow of traffic was no particularly dangerous because there weren’t that many cars coming out here. I don’t think there were even stickers that were issued for cars that I can remember. That came much later. So, was it, like the students, could you tell me, like, how did the students really hear about UNLV, I mean, for the enrollment, really, (unintelligible)? You must remember that I was only a part-time student. I was not here full time on campus. But I know that many of the secondary school counselors mentioned the existence or the possibility of coming to what was then—what is now UNLV. And I think at first, many students came here who wanted to kind of test their feet in the water to see if they wanted to go on to school or not. Many students, I think, came here because they could not afford to go further, and because they could live at home, they would start here, and then because of the limited facilities here would be intend to transfer to another university that would offer four-year courses or courses in specific UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 9 majors that the university did not, at that time, have. I think it was a lot of word-of-mouth. I don’t recall ever seeing ads in the paper to come to UNLV. I think I saw a few schedules of classes offered. But it was a minor institution. People were sort of aware that it was here, but it had not achieved he prestige, it had not achieved the position where a number of majors could be offered. There was no housing and facilities were very limited in all ways. The faculty was very small, too. Was it like a ghost town, like a ghost university, like not too many people knowing about it? I suppose that ghost is a good term for it. I remember the first disparaging remark that I noticed about this growing institution: it was called Tumbleweed Tech, if that gives you any idea as to the way that some people spoke of it at that time. Tumbleweed because of its isolation in the desert and Tech because it was not a university at that time. It had very few offerings. Was the road, was it more, like, dirt-like, or was it flattop? I think it was asphalt. Across the street, I mean, next to here, like financial aid, did they offer financial aid then? I don’t know if there was a financial aid office. And the people that are the students that I knew here, fellow students who were part-time as I was, were not on financial aid. I think most of them held full time jobs and would not have been seeking financial aid. I do remember that the registrar at that time handled the veterans, and if you consider that financial aid, yes there was financial aid in that respect. In terms of scholarships alone, the extended kind of assistance that’s now given, no. Could you tell me when your office came in, too? This office right here? All right. I think it was during 1972 that we finally moved—I made the offer, and it may have been the spring of ’71. I don’t remember for sure, but it was probably UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 10 around ’72. We had been in the social science building, now called Wright Hall, and we were moved out of there because of the plan for expansion, and with the promise of this building being built. And in the interim, we were housed in what was the interim office building, we called it the IOB, and we called it the cattle pen and many other names because the offices there were very thinly partitioned. One could hear the scratching of a pen in the next dune there. There was very, very little privacy. It was an interim kind of situation, so we called it the interim office building. And we were over where the business office now is. Like, I could see down the way, that is the math center, right? Science and math. Yes. Was that there then? No. I don’t think so. I don’t remember when the science and math building was built either. See, I never thought during the years that someone was going to appear before me and ask me to recall, historically, when the buildings were built. I was aware that they were going up, but I made no particular note of the year or the order of appearance. I remember, of course, that this is the third building that I have been housed in. The office buildings have changed vastly, and we have moved with the times. On campus, was there grass, was there any grass? I don’t remember any grass at all. I there were few places other than Grant Hall. Any trees? The trees were twigs, they were very small. They had not attained the height. The landscaping was very sparse. Like, the parking lot right next to the dorm, were they there? There was no dorm, there were no parking lots. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 11 So it was mostly like just a few buildings, and the rest was dirt? In the beginning, it was one building. One building? And dirt. Like, all the subjects were in that one building? Yes—the library, the administration offices, the faculty office—everything in that one building, contained in one building. Is that building here now? Yes, it’s the one right next to this, called Grant Hall. Grant Hall? Where the registrar’s office is now, continuing education. So, was UNLV offering as many classes as they are now? No, not nearly as many. I think that the English Department may have had four persons in it at that time, at the most, and today we have eighteen or nineteen. Was, like, all the main subjects offered, like math, science? I was not involved with science and math, so I don’t know what the catalog offerings were at that time—no idea. There wasn’t too much there. Was the streets, like Tropicana, were they as wide as they are now? No, they were not as well defined nor as well travelled as they are now. Was it as easy, like, now—was it kinda like bumpy, the road? (Unintelligible) It was like a rough ride? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 12 Uh-huh. And there, of course, were not all the housing developments or the businesses that you now find. So, like, people who came to UNLV came in a way to get here—it took them a while, I mean, like—? Yes. There was no houses around here, people lived around here? There was that small apartment complex across the street from where we are now sitting, but it was probably—there may have been room for, there may have been twenty units there, maybe not that many. I was only in one of them once, so I don’t have a very clear view of it. Could you tell me how the roads were designed then, like, maybe Flamingo, how they were designed then compared to now? Were they in the same place, or just different? The present arteries were there from Boulder Highway, connecting between Boulder Highway and the Strip, but they weren’t marked the way they are now. They are not as well-defined as they are now, and there were very few buildings between where we’re now sitting and Boulder Highway; that is, on opposite sides of those main highway, such as Tropicana and Flamingo. I remember, earlier, that you told me that the light was very—they didn’t have too many lights on the road. So, was it as many people on the road at night? No. There just wasn’t that much traffic. People driving in would come in on the Boulder Highway, for example, and they’d go down to Fremont and then out to the Strip rather than taking the side arteries because they’re not marked. Did they have quite a few telephone poles up or light poles up? I suppose they did. I don’t remember clearly. UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 13 It seems like they were just mostly trying to get the roads finished, and the lights wasn’t too important. Well, even the roads themselves weren’t. They just hadn’t been that well-developed. The number of people living in this area was considerably smaller, and there just wasn’t the need for well-paved, well-lighted roads. So, this area was, like, deserted? Yes, mm-hmm. So, what made you decide to come and teach her? I was asked to come and teach here. After you finished school? Before. Before? Yes. You see, I finished school three times: one at the BA level, one at the master’s level, and one in the doctorate level, and each time—at that time, I didn’t know that I was going to go on to a different level. Did you think you would be here this long? I don’t think I had ever thought too much about coming to the university until I was asked. Many were called, but few were chosen, and I remember being called by the, on the telephone by the head of the English Department at that time and asking if I would consider coming out here to teach, and I said, I don’t know that I would, and said, “Will you come out and teach on what is called P99 money?” And I said no, I wouldn’t do that, I would only come as a full-fledged member of the department. So, the next day I received a call saying, “Would you come?” and I said I will think about it and respond in two months. And I took about two months to think about UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 14 it because the implications were very strong for me. It would be changing a way of life, changing a salary—it would make a lot of changes in my life, and I wanted to make my decision very carefully, and I did. So, you wasn’t really thinking about teaching as a job? I always thought—well, I frequently say, “I don’t work; I teach.” But I had not initially intended, when I was an adolescent, to be a professor at a university. That had not been my intention, and my previous background had been for the teaching of English, but it had not been designed to teach at the university level. I did go back and received my doctorate (unintelligible) as a result of the decision I made in ’66. Does what happened to UNLV now, the way everything is, is it a shock to you, is it a surprise? No, it’s not a shock; it’s been a very gradual transition in all ways. And still increasing, right? Oh, yes. And I hope that the number of students will continue to increase, that the number of programs one wanted will continue to increase. In the future to come, do you think present time now will be different than, say, ten years from now as it was back then to what it is now? It’s difficult to predict. But with the current—if the current economic situation were to continue or to worsen, I would not envision that UNLV will continue its present rate of growth. Should the economic situation improve, I think that UNLV will grow concomitantly with that improvement. Do you think they will add more complexes to this and the campus will become larger? UNLV University Libraries Pat Geuder 15 I don’t know they’ll be an addition of complexes. I might envision additions to the existing buildings, such as the one, the addition that’s being built out of the library. Okay. Thank you very much. Earlier, when we were talking, you had called me “Mrs.,” and then you changed it to “Dr.” I think that the change from Mrs. to Dr. is quite reflective of the changes that have occurred on this campus. Thank you.