Interview with George Robert Maynard, Sr., January 26, 2004

Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with George and Theresa Maynard January 26, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada Interview Conducted By Mary Palevsky © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with George and Theresa Maynard January 26, 2004 Conducted by Mary Palevsky Table of Contents Introduction: Mr. and Mrs. Maynard recall their family histories. Theresa Maynard worked at the Nevada Test Site, where her father also worked as a security guard. After returning from a tour of duty in Korea, George Maynard was assigned to the test site as a member of the Air Force Special Weapons Project [ AFSWP]. 1 After undergoing strict background investigations, the Maynards both began to realize that their work was related to the development of nuclear weapons. 5 Mr. and Mrs. Maynard describe the living conditions at the Nevada Test Site in the late 1950s. 7 The Maynards share their reactions to witnessing atmospheric nuclear tests. 9 Mr. and Mrs. Maynard’s views regarding the use of nuclear weapons were strongly influenced by their families’ experiences during World War II, as well as their memories of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 17 Like many atomic veterans, Mr. Maynard is now learning more about the dangerous effects of radiation exposure. The safety procedures in place during the 1950s were inadequate, since even many scientists did not yet fully understand the risks. 19 The Maynards describe the experience of witnessing an atmospheric nuclear test and viewing the extent of damage it caused to objects on the test site. 23 Theresa Maynard discusses how her father became involved in the nuclear test program as a security guard at both Enewetak and the Nevada Test Site. 25 Organizations such as the Atomic Veterans Association are working to raise awareness of the issues faced by atomic veterans. They are also active in lobbying the federal government to offer compensation for veterans who have suffered illnesses related to their exposure to radiation. 31 The Maynards describe conditions at Camp Desert Rock, an Army facility at the Nevada Test Site. 35 Charged with controlling anti- nuclear protestors, preventing foreign espionage, and securing classified information, security guards at the Nevada Test Site faced a daunting task. 37 The secretive nature of the nuclear test program has limited public awareness of atomic veterans. 40 Conclusion: the Maynards describe several documents they have kept from their employment at the Nevada Test Site. 46 Maynard_ G& T_ 01262004_ TOC_ ARCH. doc UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with George and Theresa Maynard January 26, 2004 in Las Vegas, NV Conducted by Mary Palevsky [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disk 1. Mary Palevsky: OK, so as I said, why don’t we start just with a little background of each of you, maybe take five minutes or so to get where you were born, when you were born if you don’t mind telling me, and then fast forward a little bit to how you ended up in Nevada when you did at the test site. So Theresa, let’s start with you. Theresa Maynard: OK, I’m Theresa Maynard. I was born in New York City. We moved to California when I was about eleven. I was born March 13, 1937. My dad had worked overseas in— George Maynard: Enewetak. Theresa: Enewetak. And he was there for about a year and came back to California and we all moved to Nevada. And I had just graduated from high school, so I was working at the Bank of Nevada on Fremont Street, for about a year, and then went to work for the test site. So let me go back to your dad a little bit. He worked at Enewetak during some of the— I guess the first tests. Theresa: Yes. And had he been in the war in the Pacific or—? Theresa: No. He hadn’t. So he went to the Pacific postwar? Theresa: Yes. And what kind of work did he do there? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 Theresa: He was in security. Yes. So was he with the military or with—? Theresa: No, civilian. He was civilian. Theresa: Yes. With a company or—? Theresa: FSI, I believe it was. And FSI is the—? Theresa: Federal Service.. George: Federal Services Inc. OK. All right. Great. That’s perfect and to the point. Why don’t you tell us a similar thing. George: I’m George Maynard, birthday 1/ 25/ 35. I entered the military in 1953. Upon my return from a tour in Korea in 1955, assigned to 18th Airborne Headquarters, Fort Bragg [ North Carolina]. I applied for special automotive schooling and before my schooling came through, I was assigned to Armed Forces Special Weapons Project [ AFSWP], Sandia Base, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Upon my arrival I stayed at Sandia approximately seven days and was sent on an extended, indefinite TDY to Nevada Test Site. TDY is tour of duty? George: Temporary duty assignment. Temporary duty assignment. Great. George: For an indefinite period. For an indefinite period. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 George: Yes, ma’am. And I arrived at the test site at about mid- July 1956, and at that time they were in what they call the interim period, because it was a minimal number of military and civilian personnel. And my duties were to be the mechanic and standby driver for the military ambulance we had that covered highway accidents from Mercury test site to Beatty. So shortly after the Operation Plumbbob began, I was coming through the security gate and I had a flaw in my security ID badge— which one of the security guards took a hole punch and punched a hole through my picture— so I had to go get a new badge. And I met a young lady that her first day of work— the badge office clerk— and she prepared my new badge. And I didn’t know it at the time, but the security inspector that punched my badge was her father. So I asked her out that night and we were engaged shortly thereafter and married September the seventh 1957 in Pasadena, California. Wow. So that would be September of the same year. Wow, that’s exciting. George: Quick marriage. About a seven month engagement. Yes, that’s wonderful, and a good marriage because you— [ 00: 05: 20] Theresa: We were engaged two weeks after we— How neat. Now, because it’s a woman interviewing you and not a man, I’m going to say you both must have liked each other right away. Theresa: Right. That is so neat. George: Yes, we hit it off pretty good. That’s great. Theresa: And still are. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 Yes. I think that that’s sometimes really the case. It was true with— I’ll be personal, with my husband. I knew right away that I really liked him. Theresa: Yes. But so let me back up a little bit. When you first went in the Army, Fort Bragg was the second place you went. You originally were— where did you go first in the Army, for your basic training or whatever? George: Well, my basic training was at Fort Lee, Virginia and upon completion of my basic training I was assigned to Quartermaster Army Depot in Stockton, California. In Stockton. So you got out to the West. George: Yes, ma’am. And from Stockton I was sent to Korea and I spent about eighteen months in Korea— That’s the piece I missed. You said a tour of duty and I wasn’t sure where. So you were in Korea. George: Yes, ma’am, from May 1954 to October 1955. And what was that like? What were you doing in Korea? George: I was in a heavy equipment repair facility. We overhauled portable power units, large diesel generators, Caterpillar road graders, tank retrievers, heavy transport vehicles, and this was all used for recovery of all the items that were left in the field after the armistice was signed. OK. Oh wow. So then you come back— George: And I was assigned to 18th Airborne Headquarters in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Right. And then to this special weapons project. George: Armed Forces Special Weapons Project in Sandia Base in Albuquerque. Now at what point did they give you a sense— either at Albuquerque in Sandia or when you get out to the test site— of the kinds of things that are going on? Were you aware of nuclear testing? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 George: I was not aware of what the future was until they had me start filling out a lengthy personal history questionnaire, and then I’m getting phone calls from folks around home that were being questioned by the FBI and Secret Service. Then I had an idea that I was getting into something that was highly sensitive or a top secret- type operation. Right, because your family and neighbors are saying, Why are they questioning me about you? Yes. Now on your side because your dad, Theresa, was a security person and you’re this young woman out of high school, did you have a sense of what your dad was involved in, or just that you couldn’t have a sense, or what was that like? Theresa: No, you know, I knew a lot about what he was into. You did? Theresa: Yes, right. So I knew what was going on at the test site and— You knew they were testing nuclear weapons. Theresa: Right. You must have had to get some sort of clearance to even have your job. Theresa: Yes, it took about six months but I got my security clearance too. Yes. A similar kind of process where they—? Theresa: Yes, you fill out from I guess basically the day you were born and where you lived and where you went to school and who you know and who your relatives are and a whole lot of stuff. I guess a young woman like you is perfect because you have had little time in your life to do anything questionable. I mean how old were you? Eighteen or something? Theresa: About nineteen. Nineteen. Theresa: Yes. But I enjoyed it and it was very interesting. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 So you worked in the badge office. Theresa: Yes. Tell me a little bit about what that involved. Theresa: Well, I would get a request for a badge for anybody coming into the test site, whether they be military or civilian or whatever, and we would process it and then depending on what clearance they needed, whether they were eligible to get a security clearance badge for that. And that’s basically what I did. And how would that be determined? You’d have people coming in for one day that would just get a daily pass, I would guess, and then you had people that actually were being processed to work at the site with the highest clearance? Theresa: Right. Yes. And would that go to someone like your dad who looked at the official information or how would that work? Theresa: No, my dad didn’t have, you know, much to do with that end of it. Oh he didn’t. OK. Theresa: He was mainly on the gate or out in the areas— Checking out the situation. Theresa:— or guarding the sites. I see. Theresa: The site itself. In the towers. Right, and he had people working for him. So before you met your husband, where was your family living? Theresa: We were living in California until we moved to Nevada. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 And then where did you live when your dad was working at the site? Theresa: We lived in Las Vegas. You did live in Las Vegas? Theresa: Right. Yes. So you drove up every morning? Theresa: I was working here to begin with, and my dad drove up and he stayed out there all week and come home on the weekends or his days off. And then when I started working there I stayed in the ladies’ dorms during the week and then the weekend when I was off I’d go home for the weekend. And then after we got married, there was no place for either one to live together so we rented an apartment in Las Vegas, and we drove every day, 140 miles back and forth for a couple, three months. Oh my gosh. Now when you first come you’re in the military so there are barracks out there that you stay in, I assume. George: Right. But once you’re married and you’re military, then you’re allowed to move off of the site. George: Right. Yes, once we were married the military had provisions for a supplemental income to help you afford the off- base housing and food, so it added a little extra pay to your regular military pay by being married, and they also provided medical and dental support for your spouse. The facilities were rather limited as far as recreation and sports activities and stuff on the site. The main thing was the cafeteria which served three meals a day and each meal was a dollar a meal. Amazing. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 George: Went through a little turnstile- type people- counter thing. And they had a recreation hall that served beer and snacks. And the military had a small theater, showed movies nightly for a quarter a person. And late evening activities, if you wanted to get off the site for a while, on many occasions we drove to Vegas to get a cup of coffee and then back to the site. Wow. So it was really a different kind of a sense of space and time and what you’d be willing to do because you were so out in the middle of nowhere. George: Well, it was actually, from a military standpoint, the test site was considered an isolated tour of duty and we got an additional six dollars a day pay for being isolated. OK. Interesting. And what was it like when you first— well, let’s start with you, Theresa, what was it like the first time you went out there? Let me put it this way, the first time I saw the Southwest desert, having come from the East Coast, it was something like I’d never seen before. I’m wondering what you thought of it when you first went out there. Theresa: Well, I liked the desert [ laughter] so I really enjoyed, you know, seeing the different sceneries, and we did go on, you know, I worked off the base too, in the control area. Oh you did? Theresa: For a while, yes. So you would get out. Theresa: So I was out in the middle of the site, yes. And of course you seen a lot of things, you know, like the big holes that used to be there from where bombs were for and things like that, and it was very interesting. Right. Yes. It was. And what put you then as a badge person sort of out at the control area? Theresa: Well, I switched jobs and I went to work for Jim Reno was his name; I believe it was REECo [ Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Company]. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 With REECo. OK. Theresa: Yes. And I was a secretary for him. OK. And what was his position? Theresa: Security. Oh he was security also. OK. Theresa: Yes. So that was your area. Theresa: And I have to say, every job I had out there was very interesting. I bet it was because interesting things were going on. Theresa: Right. Now you said you saw the craters. You must have seen some actual tests also or did you see any of that? Theresa: Yes, I did see. The atmospheric tests? Theresa: My first experience with a test was when my bed went from one side of the room to the other. Tell me that. Theresa: Well, I was asleep one morning and they had an early- morning test and my bed was shaking and moved halfway across the room. Oh my gosh. Theresa: Because I didn’t go to see that one. I had I guess just been there about a week and— You were in the dorm and your— Theresa: Right. And it was scary. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 I guess. Did you hear it? Theresa: No. Just felt it. But I did go out, you know, later and see a couple of the tests, which was very scary. It was scary for you. Theresa: Yes. I would imagine that it would be. Theresa: And hoped nobody ever had to use it. Yes. Theresa: But of course my husband didn’t tell me at the time that there’s a shock wave. So we had these big dark glasses on so you, you know, wouldn’t blind you when you looked at the actual blast. And then all of a sudden about a few seconds later there comes a big shock wave and it really blows you, but nobody warned me about that. So you were just hit by it. Theresa: Yes, I almost broke his arm. [ laughter] So that must have been scary too. Theresa: Yes, it was scary. I mean they were beautiful to look at but very scary to think what would happen if they ever had to use it. Yes. Well you know it’s really interesting to hear what you have to say because there’s so few people in the world that have witnessed that. I mean within the test site community it seems common, but outside the testing community it’s uncommon. And so what is interesting to me, and I want to ask you about it too, is you’re a young person, you see this, and you’re aware then. You’re saying to yourself, That would be really bad if it were used. I mean you UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 understood the significance of it even though you were as young as you were, is that what you’re saying? Theresa: Yes. It would be very devastating wherever it was used, and we just hoped and prayed that they never did have to use it. But then on the other hand you were glad that they were doing things like this because we do need protection, you know, for our world too. Correct. Right. And were you conscious— I’m curious because I’m a little younger than you and I experienced the Cold War in different ways— but were you conscious there of the arms race and of the Cold War and of the Russians? Theresa: Oh yes. You were. Theresa: Yes. So you thought about that and talked about that. Theresa: Right. Another thing that was scary was the protesters, because I was there during the time of the big protesting that was going on outside the gate. And what year would that be when you say—? Theresa: Nineteen fifty- seven. Nineteen fifty- seven, there were big protests. Theresa: Yes, big. And they had, I don’t know, a thousand outside the gate, all different kind of people, camping out there, staying out there, protesting even once they had a threat they were coming through the gate, and so at that time it was a little bit scary but— And what scared you about that? Theresa: Well, you didn’t know what they were going to do if they did get through the gate. And see I worked close to the gate, so that was a scary time. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 Yes. So you were scared if they broke through, what they would do. Theresa: Yes. What they had in mind. But like I say, it was a good experience because you got to see a lot, do a lot, know a lot, and really learned a lot. Yes. Would you see the, you know, the weapons that were being tested there, you obviously must have seen some of the— did you see the weapons designers, did you meet the scientists who came through, did that—? Theresa: I met a lot of people. I couldn’t exactly tell you who they are now, you know, I don’t remember but— It doesn’t matter. I don��t expect you to. Theresa: Yes, because everybody that comes into the site had to go through the badge office to get a badge. No matter who you were. Theresa: Right. No matter who you were. So we did see a lot of people. Yes, I guess so. And so while we’re on the subject of the tests, George, what was the first time— I think I may have asked you this a little while ago, but at some point you’re getting the sense from the security clearance stuff that it’s high security that you’re working in. What was your rank when you were there? George: I was a specialist four, which was a pay grade of an E- 4. It starts out E- 1- through- 7 at the time when I was a pay grade 4. And my primary duty was automotive mechanic and other engine- powered pieces of equipment, and we had a lot of generators that they used for lighting in the testing areas. And one of the duties was to go around before the tests and start up all the power plants for the lighting, because the majority of the shots were before dawn and the systems provided lighting for the tower and all that so people could know where the tower was. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 And they could see it before the test and then have a chance to observe after where there was nothing left, because the whole thing went up in the cloud, completely vaporized. And sometimes, depending on the weather, a test may be delayed two, three, four days, and we had to go in and get everything going and come back out by three o’clock in the morning. And if the shot was cancelled then we had to go back in and shut everything down and come back that night and start it all over again, so sometimes we went like for forty or fifty hours with no sleep. Because the distances are so huge out there. George: Right. Yes. Vast areas around the ground zero location. It took a lot of time to cover that area. It took a lot of time to cover that area and plus we had to check oil and refuel everything and try to find a bite to eat somewhere. And personal facilities like restrooms were almost nonexistent. It was somewhat of a hardship, you know, you was living in a barren desert. Right. Would you have to sleep out there sometimes? George: Yes, sometimes we had to sleep out there. But usually when I did my sleeping was after we finally got everything started up and come back in to the control point and I’d have a chance to catch a two- or- three- hour nap before the test time. Right. You know, one of the first things that the gentleman who’s working in history with the Department of Energy said to me when I came on this project, and my colleagues, these professors I’m working with, said, I’m taking you out to the test site. Because when you talk to people you need to have a sense of the distances we’re talking about, and this is a perfect example. We spent all day out there in a nice truck with snacks and food and, you know, outhouses spread around the site. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 Theresa: I don’t want to interrupt you but one of my funny stories is I used to get to drive the pickup truck out in the control area. And I really enjoyed that, because I had just gotten my license not too long and it seemed like a fun thing to do. Oh wow. Absolutely. Theresa: Every morning and every afternoon coming back I’d drive the pickup. Absolutely. I remember, yes, absolutely, when you first get your license, to have those spaces to drive through. Interrupt me anytime. Theresa: Yes. OK. But I’m seeing— my comment basically was what I said, you know— he was right because the distances are so vast out there, that you experienced. Theresa: Yes. But before you saw the first test, did someone say to you, you know, We’re making these atomic weapons or these nuclear weapons? George: Well, my clue to actually what was involved was when I arrived at the Mercury test site for my orientation, and at that time it was explained to me that I would be involved in various operations of the above- the- ground nuclear weapons testing program. OK, so they told you. George: That was my first clue, and it was shortly after my arrival in mid- July of 1956. Now would you have— given your age, again I’m just curious, were you aware of the atomic bombings in World War II, that those bombs were similar to the bombs that were being tested? George: Yes, ma’am, I was well aware of that. I was a youngster, six years old, when World War II started, and I remember I was in school when the war ended. And I had listened to the news on the radio, that they had dropped two atomic bombs in Japan, one on Hiroshima and one UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 on Nagasaki and killed thousands and thousands and thousands of people with one single weapon. And I knew that what was involved had some awesome power to it. So you were around ten when Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened, I would imagine, if you were born in 1935. George: Yes, ma’am. And even as a little kid like that, you’re conscious of what that means. George: Yes, and I had visions of at some point in time the threat of total world destruction, and it was real scary after you seen the pictures and the damage that was done in Japan. And then I later learned about the first test that was done in New Mexico. Right. Trinity. George: And of course being in the military I didn’t have any idea that I’d ever end up being involved in the weapons testing program. It sort of came as a surprise to me, and also I was pleased that I was chosen because it was a special sort of a project. Right. It reflected that you were trustworthy or you did your job well or things like that, that you were chosen, is that what you’re saying? George: Yes, ma’am. Yes. And I guess probably I was chosen on the skills that I demonstrated from the time I entered the military. And to be granted a security clearance that it required to be at the test site, you had to have a pretty clean background, so I guess I had done everything right. [ laughter] Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Theresa, you were nodding your head a little bit when he was talking about the bombings of Japan, and again because I’m, you know, I wasn’t born until a little after the war, I’m curious for what children— you read a lot about what adults thought about it, but I’m curious about the awareness that children had. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 Theresa: Blank. What? Theresa: Blank. [ laughter] Blank. You were a little too young, I think. Theresa: I remember the day it was over— that it ended— because we were visiting my aunt and uncle at their house and— This was—? George: August 6, 1945 was the day the first atomic bomb was dropped. August 14, 1945 Japan surrendered. Right. And you were still in New York or were you in California then? Theresa: No, we were in New York then, and I just remember that it was on the television and they had a little round television or radio. And it was real loud, you know, they said it was over and everybody was yelling and hollering. And I do remember that day, but as far as the war itself I don’t. Yes. You were too young. Theresa: Yes. My husband— Theresa: You don’t think about things at that age. No. My husband’s a year older. He was born in 1936, so remembers that everyone was excited. Theresa: Excited. Yes. Yes. But I think by the time you’re nine or ten you start to get another view of the world, that you can understand some of the larger implications. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 17 George: Yes. Yes, and I came from a military family. Most of my uncles were in the military, drafted when World War II began, so I had a large number of family members that were in World War II. And I had two or three uncles that were killed in the war, and I had one uncle that spent five- and- a- half years in a Japanese concentration camp and came out weighing sixty- eight pounds. He was 220 when he went in. And he came out minus toenails and fingernails from poisoned bamboo strips in the torture, they was trying to make him talk. And it kind of put a bad taste in your mouth, you know, for that country. And after looking at some of the pictures that one of my uncles brought back from Germany, he had pictures of all of the Jews that were mass- murdered and stacked up outside the ovens to be burned, that really sticks in my mind, looking at those black- and- white pictures. I don’t know, it’s hard to believe, you know, that the world is so cruel. And then we just had a recent experience in Iraq with all the atrocities that Saddam Hussein come across with. I don’t know if I can go into it. But to get back to World War II— I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. Theresa: That’s all right. You just hope and pray that, you know, one day it’ll all stop but it seems like it just keeps going over and over and over into something else all the time. Yes. Yes. You just hope that there’s some little tiny bit of progress. Theresa: Right. But what you’re expressing, I’m just curious, had your uncle been involved in liberating any of those camps? Is that why he had pictures? George: Yes. Yes, the uncle in Germany that had the black- and- whites of all of the murdered Jewish people, he was involved in the takeover of the prison camps and I think he referred to it as Jewish concentration camps. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 18 But to get back to reality, I see some positive things happening now, like the major powers have agreed to dismantle X- number of weapons of mass destruction. Correct. George: The testing proved that you had the total capability to destroy anything you wanted to, and people have the foresight now to look for ways to prevent it through dismantling, and it looks like the nuclear research is leaning toward peaceful use of nuclear power. Right. That’s really interesting, what you just said. I never heard it expressed quite like that, that the testing proved that you could destroy anything. Sometimes people will say, Well, we did this with the test. It was weapons effects or we were seeing how a new little gadget worked. But that’s really an interesting way to look at it. There was no question, if anyone had any question, that you could really blow everything up with these weapons. Theresa: Definitely. Yes. But what I’m curious about, at the time— it’s hard sometimes to look back and remember what you thought at the time because, you know— Theresa: It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago and the layers of what you’ve learned since then layer on top, but we’re not going to worry about that. At the time, because you remembered so vividly your uncles coming back, how horrible World War II was, at the time, because it was so soon after the war, were you sort of thinking, This work is important because we have to prevent this from happening again? Did you think like that or, We have to make sure that we stay ahead, or am I reading too much into it? And you’d been to Korea. George: Well, after World War II I noticed the beginning of a world power struggle. Everybody wanted to dominate. We were in World War II allied with Russia, and after World War II we became enemies. And we were two of the superpowers that were in the nuclear arms race, and UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 19 then we began to struggle on the space race. And the Russians consequently, they beat us into space because they were willing to take more risks on their equipment than we were, for personal safety. And then we succeeded in putting a man on the moon and so that put us a step ahead of the Russians. And then we finally joined with Russia in a space station program. So we have a station up there now with Russians and Americans aboard. And one of the things that I rely on now that is related to atomic power is the time checks from Colorado, the atomic timekeeper for the world, and you can buy a watch now that receives the signal and every so often— I didn’t know