Transcript of interview with Phyllis Silvestri by Claytee White, January 11, 2010

An Interview with Phyllis Silvestri An Oral History Conducted by Claytee White Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas © Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood University of Nevada Las Vegas Libraries 2010 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries, Director: Claytee D. White Project Creators: Patrick Jackson and Dr. Deborah Boehm Transcriber and Editor: Laurie Boetcher Editor and Production Manager: Barbara Tabach Interviewers: Suzanne Becker, Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White ii Recorded interviews, transcripts, bound copies and a website comprising the Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood Oral History Project have been made possible through a grant from the City of Las Vegas Centennial Committee. Special Collections in Lied Library, home of the Oral History Research Center, provided a wide variety of administrative services, support and archival expertise. We are so grateful. This project was the brainchild of Deborah Boehm, Ph.D. and Patrick Jackson who taught at UNLV and resided in the John S. Park Neighborhood. As they walked their community, they realized it was a special place that intersected themes of gender, class, race/ethnicity, religion, sexuality and gentrification. Patrick and Deborah learned that John S. Park had been listed on the National Registry of Historic Places and that original homeowners, local politicians, members of the gay community, Latino immigrants, artists and gallery owners and an enclave of UNLV staff all lived in the neighborhood. Therefore, they decided that the history of this special place had to be preserved, joined with the Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries and wrote a grant that was funded by the Centennial Committee. The transcripts received minimal editing that included the elimination of fragments, false starts and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the narrative. These interviews have been catalogued and can be found as non-circulating documents in Special Collections at UNLV's Lied Library. Deborah A. Boehm, Ph.D. Fulbright-Garcia Robles Scholar 2009-2010 Assistant Professor, Anthropology & Women's Studies Patrick Jackson, Professor John S. Park Oral History Project Manager Claytee D. White, Director Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries iii Interview with Phyllis Silvestri January 11, 2010 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Claytee White Table of Contents Introduction: born in Montreal, Canada [ca. 1922], lived there until her twenties, attended high school in Montreal, was very active in sports. Got her B.A., worked as secretary for a Montreal pharmaceutical company. 1 Desire to see the world: relocated to Chicago, IL after World War II, then on to St. Louis, MO with friend Mona to work as secretaries. Worked in Kansas City, MO; Grand Canyon, AZ as Harvey Girls; and Phoenix, AZ as waitresses. Traveled by bus to Acapulco, Mexico; returned to Montreal to visit family; moved on to NYC to work; then on to Florida, and Havana, Cuba. Worked in Lake Tahoe. 2 Family background: talks about immigration of father and his family from Ireland and their new life in the U.S. and Canada. Father studied at night, learned shorthand, and later worked as a court reporter. Mother Alice Hale Saunders. Maternal grandfather was principal of prestigious Catholic high school for boys in Montreal. Traditional roles of men and women. 6 Travels to Hawaii: become secretary to manager of travel agency. Social life in Hawaii. 8 Move to Las Vegas, NV with friend Mona. Works at Bingo Palace (now the Sahara Hotel and Casino). Meets and marries husband Vincent Silvestri (January 1953). First child born December 1953. Buys a home on Santa Rosa Drive. 10 Move to area near historic John S. Park Neighborhood (1960) and description of the house they designed and built. Many built-in features and a bomb shelter. 12 Memories of neighbors in the Sixties: strong Mormon neighborhood. Recalls Mormon neighbors and activities. Talks about closing of the Mormon chapel in the neighborhood. 14 Social life in the community and Las Vegas: church membership and activities, playing bridge, the Parliamentary Club and work as a parliamentarian, membership in ITC and Beta Sigma Phi sorority, playing tennis at the Tanner home. 17 Entertainment at the Sahara Hotel and Casino. 18 Political personalities who lived in or near the John S. Park Neighborhood. 19 The LDS Church and its influence on the community. 20 Changes in the community: new people, lack of neighborliness, transience. Recalls friends and neighbors who lived in the community earlier. 21 Connection between community and the casino business. Structure of community: both middle and upper class: custom homes and tract houses. 22 Character of the people who lived in the community: ambitious and willing to pay the price: educated children became professionals and political personalities. 23 iv Comments on changes in the community: changes made the community better up through last two years, and now community is going down: caliber of people is changing, neighborhood not kept up as well, virtually inactive neighborhood association, neighbors are indifferent, older residents have died 24 What the neighborhood means to her after fifty years: always meant convenience: schools, bus service, hotels, entertainment. Does not encourage friendship. Appearance of the neighborhood has gone down. Greatest wishes for the community: neighborhood association to encourage people to fix up houses and lawns 25 Final comments on the neighborhood: lovely park with outdoor activities, convenience of churches and schools, proposals for development. Does not believe that community will come together over development and neighborhood improvement. Development detracts from residential aspect of community. Need for reinstitution of neighborhood feeling to vitalize the community 26 Conclusion: no regrets about moving to Las Vegas. Continued to travel: Europe, Hawaii. Recollections of her first job in a bank, living through the Great Depression. 28 Preface As a young woman, Phyllis Silvestri made the adventurous decision to move to the United States. She was bom in Canada and lived there until her early 20s. Over the next few years, Phyllis and her friend Mona logged many miles, worked and visited several states. By 1953, Phyllis had met and married Vincent Silvestri, who worked at Bingo Palace, now the Sahara Hotel and Casino. Soon they had their first child and had bought a home on Santa Rosa. A few years later they were building a new home in the John S. Park area. She proudly recalls her husband's attention to details such as including lots of built-in features and a bomb shelter that represents the era. Phyllis talks fondly of the neighborhood, but also recalls her children not being allowed to play with some of the neighborhood children because they were of Italian ancestry. vi ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Voices of the Historic John S. Park Neighborhood Use Agreement Name of Narrator: LUa M- $: Name of Interviewer: L t\ V~/ E'ir /J, /" f ft / ~f~£z- We, Qic above named, give tcltlie Qral History Research Center of UNLV, die recorded interview(s) initiated on 1/ !/ ' • $ as an unrestricted gilt, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to die University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all liLerary property rights including copyright. This gilt does not preclude the right ol die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. >k. 'f, Signanire^Nan^ttor Date Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7010 (702) 895-2222 1 Interview with Phyllis Silvestri January 11, 2010 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Claytee White This is Claytee White, and I am in the John S. Park Neighborhood today. It is January 11th, 2010, and I am with Phyllis Silvestri. And we also have in the room with her, Phyllis's daughter, Sharon Bangle. Phyllis, tell me a little about your childhood and where you grew up. I was born in Montreal, Canada [ca. 1922], and stayed there till I was in my twenties, so I went to school [there]. [I was] very active in sports: tennis and baseball. [I] just loved sports, and swimming. My activities: I went to a Catholic high school in Montreal, and after that I got a job and worked, but I decided it wasn't enough. I wanted to see the world, so I decided to leave home. Before that, I did go to college at night, so I got my B.A. I took four years and it was a long process but I enjoyed it very much. Then I decided, Now it's time to do something else. So I decided I would leave home and travel and get a job, of course. My family didn't have a lot of money to hand me the money to do that. So anyway, I had lunch with my close friend Mona one day. She was secretary to the president of the largest pharmaceutical company in Montreal, and I was secretary to the secretary-treasurer [of the same company]. We had lunch and I told her, Well, got my visa, I'm ready to go, and she nearly died. She said, Oh, I'd so love to do that. And I said, Why don't you? So she thought about it and called me the next day and said, I want to go, too. But she'd have to expedite her visa. It took me two or three months. So I knew someone in the United States Consulate and phoned this lady and asked her if she could 2 expedite Mona's visa, so she did, and Mona got her visa and we left. But the first thing is, I told her, My first stop is Chicago [Illinois]. Oh, she said, I wouldn't go to that city of gangsters. [Laughing] That was our first disagreement. So she went to Winnipeg [Manitoba, Canada] to visit her sister and I came to Chicago and got three jobs there. I worked in a law firm, [for] Indiana Steel, and I forget the other one. So then, we decided we'd meet in St. Louis [Missouri], So how long were you in Chicago? About two or three months, maybe three months. And then our next stop was going to be—we'd say, Meet me in St. Louis, meet me at the fair. [Laughing] So we decided we'd meet in St. Louis and I made reservations to stay at the YWCA [Young Women's Christian Association]. So, first of all, we nearly missed each other, but we found each other that evening. And we both got jobs the first day we went looking, because maybe they were desperate for secretaries after the War [World War II], I don't know, but we both got jobs really easy. And then we thought, Now where is our next stop? So we went from place to place. We went to Kansas City [Missouri], then to the Grand Canyon [in Arizona], We worked at the Grand Canyon and that was fun. We really enjoyed it. Sharon: Because you saw the ad for being a Harvey Girl. Phyllis: Oh, that's right, being a Harvey Girl. Now, what do they do? We didn't know what they did. We didn't know about waitress work. [Laughing] So we went to be interviewed by Miss Toyce—I still remember her name—the director of all this, and she said, Now, how much experience [do you have]? And I said, Well, not very much 3 (meaning zero), and she said, Well, I want you to forget everything you know about waitress work. [I thought], Oh, that's wonderful. [Laughter] Because you didn't know anything. So it was easy to forget. So they trained us, and for two days you're trained; you follow someone that's experienced. And they also let us see all the tours at the Canyon. They took us on the tours for two days. So we were the best guests they had. We loved it. And then they had dancers at night. It was a very exciting place to work, and we learned very formal service: tablecloths and table napkins. It was all very formal. I'd never been in a kitchen before, and I didn't do any cooking at home, so this was an experience. From there, we decided we'd take off. We were heading west to Los Angeles [California],It took us two years to get to Los Angeles. We didn't go that fast. We went from Grand Canyon down to Phoenix [Arizona], and we worked in Phoenix, and now we had experience as waitresses. We knew how to do it. We were so happy. We knew what a kitchen looked like. [Laughter] You know, it's marvelous how waitresses can get jobs, and you learn very quickly when you have to. We'd take notes, and at night before we went to bed, we would exchange notes with each other. We'd put it all down in shorthand and then exchange notes and here's what you do and here's where you place the spoon and everything. Oh, we did go down to Mexico City. That's right, we took off for six weeks to see Mexico and Acapulco and all these places. We had enough money from the tips to go on further, so we had a wonderful time in Acapulco. Oh, it was fabulous. We went on a bus. We were prime residents of buses. 4 Then we came back. We went back to our homes. Both of us were from Montreal. But then we came back to the States and we worked in New York City, and then from there we went down to Florida. We got wonderful jobs. We worked at Palm Beach at the Everglades Club. You had to be a millionaire to belong to it. They never gave anybody a check. I don't know how they did it, on their machines. Did you meet a rich husband? No, I didn't, darn it. [Laughter] At each place we did have boyfriends. We were doing all right. [Laughter] Down in Florida I met who-do-you-call-it? I forget his name. Then we went to Havana, Cuba, and that was great. You see, they used to buy drugs from the pharmaceutical company [that we worked for in Montreal], So we're still in the Forties? We are. So what was Cuba like at that time? It was wonderful. There was music on every street. Fidel Castro was not in power at all. That's right, Castro wasn't there until 1959. No, not at all. Yeah. So Havana was music everywhere. And of course we had a connection, because they bought their drugs out of this firm in Montreal, so Dr. Fabres was dying to meet Mona because she was the president's secretary, and they knew each other because he made trips to Montreal, to arrange all these finances. And so, they took us to lunch and everywhere. We were just very, very lucky. And of course we both got boyfriends there. [Laughter] Mine was a good-looking guy. He was like, what was that actor's name? (I can't remember. It will come to me eventually.) And they took us out to lunch, and so did Dr. Fabres. The lunch at these places was fabulous. You have a private 5 little dining room. I don't know what he did. He just tapped somewhere on his bell and the waitress came. Everything was very secluded and lovely. A private club, I guess. Sharon: You had left your car, though. Phyllis: I parked my car in Miami [Florida], I went down to the airport, and parked it, just parked it at the airport, and said to a fellow there, I'll pay you a dollar a day if you'll watch my car. We were only going [to Havana] for seven days, so seven dollars to park the car, right at the airport. I mean there was no parking like this [today]. This is out in the like desert. It's just out in the open. Sharon: You had all your stuff in the car. Phyllis: Oh yeah, all our stuff. [Laughter] We never gave it a thought. And I had a convertible. Oh yes, while I was in Palm Beach, I bought a Cadillac convertible, not brand-new but it was like brand-new because the owner had bought it during the war and never drove it. So it was a lovely car. So now you and your girlfriend stopped taking the bus and started driving? Yes, now we start driving. We drove down to Key West, you know, in Florida, and we just had our little, not bikini bathing suits, little tops and bottoms, and we had to stop at the something and this guy said, Well, look at these two girls, just driving down to Key West. [Laughter] Why are you going there and whatnot? We said, We have Canadian passports but we don't have U.S. passports. So after meeting Dr. Fabres, Somebody-somebody arranged it for us to get a visa into Cuba, and so we went there and parked our car at the airport, came back, the car was still there, all the luggage was there, and [the car] being a convertible I'm amazed. Today it wouldn't be there. But in those days it was. Everything was still there. We have changed, unfortunately. 6 Unfortunately, yes. So tell me what Los Angeles was like when you finally got there. Our first trip to L.A.: I can't remember. Isn't that terrible? Sharon: I don't know if you ever made it to Los Angeles. You didn't stay and work there. You just visited, I think. Phyllis: No, we stayed there. Sharon: Yeah. Because then you went to Hawaii. Phyllis: Not from there, right away. We went to Lake Tahoe [Nevada], We worked in Lake Tahoe for the summer. I had a Triple-A book and we'd look at the most expensive places [laughter] then we'd write to them, and they'd hire us, you know. So we were very fortunate. Because you had that training, so you could do secretarial work, waitress work. Yeah, or anything like that. So, we were lucky. We couldn't cook a dam thing, either of us. [Laughter] That's OK. [Laughter] So, before we get to Las Vegas, tell me about your parents, what kind of work they did. My dad was a court stenographer, a court reporter, and he transcribed evidence. They didn't have stenotypes, which they have now and a machine does it, but they had to do it by hand. So he came from Ireland. He had lost most of his jobs because he couldn't get up out of bed on time. Court started at ten o'clock in Montreal, so he got a job as a court reporter. And he must have worked hard to get to leam to do that. So every night they transcribed. From 6:30 to eleven, Dad dictated to my mother and my mother typed all these depositions. And then they had to be signed and bound a certain way. If this attorney wanted a copy and this attorney wanted a copy and that one, you charged extra 7 per page. Now of course I understand it's much more expensive than it was [in] those days. [Laughter] It was sixty cents a page and thirty cents a page for a copy. I'm sure it's different today. Anyway, Daddy and his brothers and two sisters, they all came to Canada but they didn't come together, any of them. And one sister came to the United States, so she married a man down in Pennsylvania, I think it was. I'm not sure. And Sarah lived in New York, the other sister, and at childbirth, her mother died, so her poor father, who worked for the constabulary (he was really a policeman, I think), they finally brought him over, the father. They paid for his fare to come over. But it was quite a move, you know. That was tremendous for those guys. But they had to get jobs. They came over in steerage, so it means the lowest [deck] on a ship that you could come on, and then you got a job. The first thing you do is look for a job. And there were clubs of certain men that were foreigners that helped each other. As soon as another one came, he would plead his case and they'd say, Now you all have to help. So they would, and they'd find him a job, and Daddy went to study at night, and studied till he learned shorthand real well. My mother's name was Alice Hale Saunders and her father was principal of a Catholic high [school] in Montreal. All the big Catholic men in Montreal went to that school. It was prestigious to go there. And he [my grandfather] had his M.A. when [for] most people [it was] very rare to have an M.A. And women could not go there? No, only men. My brother went to Loyola [High School]; only boys could go there. Yeah, the society was based on men. But of course, men were to provide the sustenance 8 for people to live, and women stayed at home and brought up the children and changed the diapers and all that stuff. Wonderful stuff. [Laughter] So Phyllis, how did you finally get to Las Vegas? What brought you here? Well, eventually I went to [Honolulu] Hawaii. I gave up the waitress work and became secretary to the manager of this travel agent, right on the Royal Hawaiian [Hotel] grounds. I just went to Hawaii on a ship, didn't have a job, and the next day I got all dressed, ironed my clothes, you know, and walked down the street, and went past the Royal Hawaiian. In those days everything in Hawaii was low, just two stories high or three at the most. There were none of these high-rises. And I said, Travel service. I wonder what they do. Oh, I'll go in and ask. So I went in and I asked who was the manager and they told me and I told him I was looking for a job. Well, he thought I was a lady that wanted to travel, go to the other islands. So I thanked him, gave him my phone number, and went home; I got a little apartment the first day. (The little apartment was right in Waikiki.) And as soon as I got there, he phoned me [and] he said, I thought you were a visitor. He said, If you're interested, please come back and see me right now. So I did. So I went over there to see him, and he hired me right away, as his secretary. I was lucky because there were five other employees. Some were very good on tours, you know. We planned tours. One tour I was involved in was an around-the-world tour, and they [visitors] came and they just stayed two days in Honolulu, but those two days were busy, busy days. I went to the employment office before I got the job [at the travel agency], as soon as I landed, and the [woman at the] unemployment insurance [office] or whatever it's called, she said, Oh, my dear, there's no jobs here. You'd better take the next ship back to 9 the mainland. I said, Well, thank you very much. I waited an hour to be interviewed by her, and that was the result. I thought, Well, to heck with that. So I just got up and went and got dressed as nice as I could and went around looking, and found that job [at the travel agency] the first day. I hate when people tell you there are no jobs. But your skills were so exemplary at that time. Well, I was lucky. They needed secretaries badly. I stayed there [in Hawaii] a year. It's a nice place to enjoy. But I found that it was too lackadaisical—I mean a sort of a dream world. People ate at seven o'clock at night. [Laughter] And see, I wanted movement. I had a boyfriend over there. Duke Heatherly was his name, and he was a bandleader. Those [military] bases were still there then, so he played at the Officers' Club, and I would go and listen to the band and we'd have a few drinks, you know, and I was lucky, because Duke was great. At five o'clock at my office, he was there with his car. [Laughter] Isn't that great? You keep saying you were lucky but this is not just luck. You were just in,the right places at the right time and you had the right experience. You were ready for this. But I didn't know I was prepared except I knew I wanted to leave home. There's nothing wrong with my home. I wanted to get out of that environment and see the world. That was my ambition. And you did it well. Well, I still say, lots of luck, but still moving, getting moving. And it worked out. And eventually I came back. I stayed [in Hawaii] a year. I still have my bag in Hawaii. I'm sure Duke has thrown everything out. 10 But in any event, from L.A. I phoned Mona. She was working at the El Rancho Vegas [Hotel and Casino]. There were only three hotels when we came here [to Las Vegas]: El Rancho, Flamingo [Hotel and Casino], and [Last] Frontier [Hotel and Casino], Right, and that was on the Strip [Las Vegas Boulevard], and then downtown they had the old hotels. Yes. And so I phoned Mona from L.A. and I said, I'm on my way to Montreal. I said, Why don't you come with me? She said, I think I will. I'll get a leave of absence. And so we both went to our homes and got together there and saw our parents. Both our mothers were widows. I came back to Las Vegas with Mona. She already had her job, at the El Rancho, so I had to go and look for a job, and it took me a good week to find a job, and it was at the old Club Bingo which is now the Sahara [Hotel and Casino]. And that's where I met my future husband. I didn't know it. But what happened, I didn't have any [transportation]; I had already sold my Cadillac car in L.A. Now we [Mona and I] got a little apartment on Fourth Street. And I met Vince. How I met him: I had this job. First of all, I worked day shift, then I was transferred to one [o'clock] in the morning, but the buses stopped at twelve [o'clock] here, so I had no way to get home or keep this job, so I told the bartender and he said, Oh, that's no trouble. Hey, Vince, over there, this young lady has no transportation after one o'clock. Can you drive her home? He said, OK. So that's how I met him. Then he asked me to go out, and I said, Oh, I can't. I already have a date. And it was true, you know. So then he said, We have Tuesday off again, next week, and I said, I have a date already. [Laughter] So the third Tuesday, I went up to him, being very fancy 11 with my little cocktail tray, and I said, I don't have a date on Tuesday night. [And he said,] Oh, I never ask anybody three times. [Laughter] So he wouldn't ask me. So I went back to my work, just paying no attention, and he came back a little while later and said, How about going out Tuesday? [Laughter] He was cute. So, next thing you know, we got married and had four children. So from the apartment on Fourth Street, where did you move to then? Vince and I lived in that apartment for a little while, and then we bought a house on Santa Rosa [Drive]. And the houses were nothing like they are today; this was twelve thousand dollars. And he could just walk to work. So that was very handy. It was a nice home. We eventually had a pool put in. So which year was this that you got married? January of 1953,1 believe, and then the first child was born in December of that year. And you have four children. OK. Did you continue to work after you got married? No. No, I was too busy. To me that [being a homemaker] was a big job. [Laughter] When did you learn to cook? [Laughter] That's a great question. I never liked cooking; that was not my forte, so I just did it. You had to do it, you know, but it was plain cooking. Very healthy. I love vegetables, so a hamburger or whatever, pork chops or lamb chops. I cook simply. And so they all survived and they all looked very healthy. [Laughter] Yes, they do. So when did you and Vince decide to buy a house here in this area? Well, we got another child, after the two children, and his [Vince's] dad came from Pennsylvania and stayed with us. It was a two-bedroom home and we did fill in the carport and made it a three-bedroom home. Even [with] that, we were very crowded. So, 12 we decided, especially Vince—he was good—he'd buy a lot. This was a vacant lot here and that [indicating direction] was a vacant lot, too. This area wasn't fully developed yet. And we went to St. Anne's [Catholic] Church downtown. We had a church downtown. OK, because I'm thinking about St. Anne's on Maryland Parkway. That's where we go. But before St. Anne's even existed, the church was downtown on Second Street. I think it was called St. Joan of Arc [Catholic Church]. Vince worked at the Sahara. As soon as it transferred [from the Club Bingo] we had got married, and he came up to Montreal and saw the relatives and everything. And then [after we got married], he decided we would build another house. This was a vacant lot. Of course, we did all kinds of tricks trying to get it cheaper, but I think we paid forty-two hundred [dollars] for the lot. Do you remember who financed the house? I guess the First National Bank, which is now Wells Fargo, but in those days it was First National. And how much did you pay for it? I think it was forty-nine thousand [dollars], I'm not positive. It's in that range. Forty-nine thousand. It's amazing how times have changed because at one time I had it up for sale at four hundred thousand [dollars]. Of course I didn't get it; things went down again. They didn't go down that much. So, for forty-nine thousand dollars, describe the house to me that you purchased. Well, it's a five-bedroom home, with a family room and a living room. And a huge living room. 13 Well, very handy. And has three bathrooms, and a storage room, and it has a bomb shelter, too, so we have six beds in there, in that bomb shelter. In 1960 we moved in, and that was the scare time that we were really worried about being attacked [by the Soviet Union]. Bomb shelters were the thing This is interesting. So, the house that I'm looking at now has not been remodeled; it was like this when you purchased it? Wow, this is beautiful. The only thing is the garage was put in. Sharon: Right, right, and Mom repainted. Oh yes, but I'm talking about the size and the openness and all of this. It's a beautiful home. Oh, good. Our other house on Santa Rosa was all individual, separate rooms. I said to Vince, All I want is space. Yes, and this is it. Sharon: My dad designed it. He said, There's not one inch of wasted space. So he planned it all out and went to a draftsman to have it drawn up. Phyllis: We went to an architect first and the price the guy wanted, Vince said, No way. So then he went to a draftsman, but Vince gave [him] the ideas, like there's a lot of built-ins. I can't describe it all. See, there's a built-in bar there [and] a built-in for my card table. I like to play bridge, and the card tables and chairs are all there. The TV is built in. And even a place for the scale for me to weigh myself is built in. All the little things. He had closets built all down the hallway, on each side, so it gave you a lot of space. And Vince was very good at planning this. 14 Oh, this is great. Now, does this house compare with the other houses going up in the neighborhood at the same time? I would say it's a little above. I may be wrong. I don't mean to be. A little above what's [here]. Like that house [indicating direction] has been in many more years before this house was built. He was a senator here. He's still living there. I'm talking about the corner house [where the Petersons live]. So who were some of the neighbors that you remember in the Sixties when you moved in? The Petersons. They're still living there. And they have a large house, too. And they're high in the [local] Mormon church. I certain knew the McCuistions well. She was an interior designer. (You didn't call her an interior decorator; [she was] a designer.) And then across the street was Darrell Tanner, and he became a legislator. They had five children. They were wonderful. I just had her [Mrs. Tanner] here the other day for lunch, but she doesn't live here anymore. They've all gone, except [the] Petersons. He's still there. This house [indicating direction] was [occupied by] what was their name? Sharon: I think the Shaws built it. The Morgans then moved in. They didn't have kids, so I didn't interact with them. Phyllis: Oh, that's true; they divorced. What did the Shaws do, do you know? I don't know what he did. Sharon: I don't remember. Then the Zahns [moved in]. 15 Phyllis: Oh, the Zahns. She's a Von Tobel. So, that way, corner-wise. Our fences joined. I don't know what's happened. I think she's dead and the husband, I don't know what's happened, or he's dead and it's the other way around. So is there anyone else? The lady you had to lunch the other day [Mrs. Tanner], would she be a good person for us to include in this John S. Park project? She would've been, but she lives up in Utah. She'd be great. Sharon: Yes, she would be because it was a real strong Mormon neighborhood and they [the Tanner family] lived across the street, and then they lived just down at Eighth [Street] and Franklin [Avenue], Phyllis: Oh, they built a beautiful house at Eighth. Sharon: And they were very involved in the Mormon church. And even though we weren't Mormon, my brothers went to Boy Scouts with the kids, you know. Oh yes, the Mormons that we've interviewed said that all the children participated in the activities at their church. Yes, yes. It's ironic, though, the church is leveled. Phyllis: We don't know what's wrong. Nobody knows. Well, structurally it was not sound any longer, so they had to [demolish it]. You mean the city ord