Transcript of interview with Justice Michael Cherry by Barbara Tabach, September 19, 2014

AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL CHERRY An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach The Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries ?Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Stefani Evans ii The recorded Interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Community Digital Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada Las Vegas iii PREFACE In 1944, Justice Michael Cherry was born in St. Louis, Missouri, and went on to spend his childhood in the Jewish neighborhood of University City. At the age of ten, his parents divorced, and he often lived with his grandmother as his mother traveled around the country for her career. Although Justice Cherry wasn't a straight-A high school student, he went on to excel at the University of Missouri. He became a leader in his fraternity, Alpha Epsilon Pi, and a committed ROTC cadet. By the time Justice Cherry graduated from Missouri and was heading to Washington University School of Law, he was a second lieutenant; halfway through law school, he was promoted to first lieutenant. It was also during law school that he married his college sweetheart, Rachel Wolfson. When a bad back prevented him from becoming an active air force officer, he and his wife decided to follow his mother to Las Vegas, with their newborn daughter, Meryl, in tow. Their son, David was born in Las Vegas. Justice Cherry worked both as a law clerk with the Public Defender's Office as well as a security guard at Wonder World when he first moved to the city. After passing the Nevada bar, Cherry took at position with the Public Defender's Office and worked his way up to assistant public defender. Eventually, he went into private practice and became a successful criminal defense iv attorney. He assumed duties of special master on the MGM Grand 1980 fire litigation, and soon thereafter on the Las Vegas Hilton fire case. Achievement in these high-profile cases earned him the nickname "master of disaster." In 1998, Cherry successfully ran for district judge, and then again four years later. In 2006, he won his campaign for state Supreme Court justice. Justice Cherry was reelected to office in 2012 for another four-year term. He is currently the highest-positioned Jewish official in the state of Nevada. Throughout his years in Las Vegas, Justice Cherry has been an extremely active and influential member of the Jewish community. He has dedicated much time B'nai Brith, starting as adviser to the youth group, and eventually becoming the president of the local lodge. In addition, he served as vice president at Temple Beth Sholom, and later as president of Congregation Ner Tamid. He has served as chairman of the Anti-Defamation League and is active in the Jewish Federation. Justice Cherry attributes his commitment to service to his mother. In addition to his service to the Jewish community, he has been active in numerous other service organizations, including March of Dimes, Olive Crest, Adoption Exchange and American Cancer Society. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Michael Cherry on September 19, 2014 by Barbara Tabach in Las Vegas, Nevada Preface iv-v Talks about family heritage; growing up in St. Louis in Jewish community. Discusses attending Missouri; pledging AEPi and working up to leadership roles within fraternity; involvement with ROTC; military service throughout law school. Moves to Las Vegas with wife and daughter; works as security guard and law clerk with Public Defender's Office; passes bar 1-4 Discusses working as public defender until going into private practice; later runs for district judge. Recounts extensive involvement, leadership positions with local Jewish organizations, like B'nai B'rith, Temple Beth Sholom; Congregation Ner Tamid. Talks about children; daughter's work as teacher; son's work in Harry Reid, Shelley Berkley's offices. Describes mother's career in opening discount stores; moving to Las Vegas; becoming a Realtor 5-10 Talks about relationship with parents; father's marriages, funeral. Mentions brother; community service work with over the years; honors received. More about involvement in Jewish community; others who have contributed to community, including Moe Dalitz's support for Ner Tamid, Sheldon Adelson. Recounts meeting, befriending Adelson, Morris Shenker 11-16 Reflects on meeting ex-wife in college; getting married; raising children Jewish; wife and children's conversion in mikvah; son and daughter's bar and bat mitzvah celebrations. Discusses serving as special master on the 1980 MGM Grand fire case; on the following year's Hilton fire case. Mentions partners in his private law firm as criminal lawyer. Describes case representing a Vietnam veteran who killed cop; argued posttraumatic stress defense for first time 17-24 Remarks on role of mob in developing Las Vegas, local Jewish community. Mentions getting experience in labor law; endorsement from unions when running for office. Talks about own various races for office; other state judges; changes in Jewish community. Comments on election of judges versus appointments; fundraising for elections; donations from MGM. Describes current job as state Supreme Court judge; party politics on bench 25-29 Speaks about travels to Israel, Egypt. Chats about involvement with Anti-Defamation League (ADL); relationship to B'nai B'rith; ADL situation involving Ralph Engelstad. Comments on Ferguson, dynamics between black communities and police in Las Vegas; city's Jewish philanthropy. Compares current education quality to what it was when moved there; UNLV law school; experience talking to students at high school. Expresses concerns for hotels 30-36 Index 37-39 vi Today is September 19, 2,014. Another month is rolling past us. I'm Barbara Tabach sitting with Justice Michael Cherry in his office at 200 Lewis. I've only been here once. This is called the Regional Justice Center. You're on the seventeenth floor. All the district court, justice court and municipal courts are in this building along with this top floor, where the Supreme Court offices here in Las Vegas. Our major offices, of course, are in Carson City. How long have you been a justice? Since January 2007. And is that an elected position? Yes. How does that work in this state? After all these years, I still don't understand. In 1998, I ran for the district court and was elected for a four-year term. I was re-elected in 2002 to the district court. Then in 2006 I ran for the Supreme Court for a six-year term, and in 2012, I was elected for another six-year term. So right now I will be a justice of the Supreme Court, if I remain alive, until January of 2019. Wow. It's nice to have that job security. Yes. I'll be about seventy-four years old then, and I think it will be time to either just completely retire or to be what they call a senior judge. Right now I'm in charge of the senior judges throughout the state. We have between twenty-five and thirty senior judges along with eighty-two district court judges. So I supervise those men and women. Excellent. We're going to go back in history. The project, as I told you, is about the Jewish Heritage of Southern Nevada. What I'd like to know first, what you know about your family heritage. What are your roots? I think that the roots of my mother and father's families are Russia and Poland. My grandfather 1 Herman Cherry was my father's father; he died in 1951 at about the age of fifty-six. I really didn't know him since I was only a couple of years old then; I was born in '44. He was married to a woman named Bertha Cherry who subsequently married a man named Herman Green and then subsequently married a man named Harry Marco. Because my parents got divorced in 1954, when I was ten years old, I was not real close with my father's family. My father was a mechanic in St. Louis, Missouri, and my mother was a single parent and remained single throughout her life. She just recently died on February 21, 2014, at the age of eighty-nine. Oh, wow. I'm sorry. But my grandmother was born in England, Jenny Barg; that's my mother's mother. My grandfather Abe Barg was born in the United States. I think he was born in St. Louis, but I'm not sure. My father was born in St. Louis and my mother was born in St. Louis. I'm intrigued with the St. Louis part. I listened to video that was done a few years ago. I'm from Iowa and our daughter went to Wash U. So we got familiar with St. Louis, the family reunions down there. What was St. Louis like when you were growing up? First of all, I grew up in a place called University City, Missouri, nicknamed Jew City. About 95 percent of the students were Jewish. Now it's a very heavily African-American community, University City. I was just recently honored to the hall of fame of my high school. It was either Jewish people or African Americans that they honor. It was just a well-known school. The joke was...over the loud speaker they'd say, "The Jews are going to meet in the auditorium; the Gentiles in the phone booth." It was a good school. It was well-known for its academics. A lot of the graduates went on to Ivy League schools and to Big Ten schools like Wisconsin, Indiana; schools like that. At that time, if you graduated from high school, you could go to Missouri. My mother and 2 father were divorced. I was a B/D student; I got B's in social studies and English, and I got Ds in Latin and geometry. When it was time to graduate, the counselor said to me, "Maybe you ought to join the union and just become a laborer." I said, "Nah, I'd like to go to college." I was rushed by ZBTs, Sammy, and AEPi, and I ended up going to AEPi. They were very strict on pledges studying and I ranked my pledge class. I was number one in my pledge class and I made the honor roll. It was really good. I did very well. I worked my way up. I was president of my pledge class and I was a two-time president of my fraternity. The first time I was president of fraternity, I won unanimously; the second time I won by one vote. And my own lieutenant master, my vice president ran against me, but I beat him by one vote. One of the things that happened to me...Missouri was a land grant college, which means you had to take ROTC. It was a non-credit course. I could not get up in time to go to ROTC because of all the pledge stuff we had, and I'm trying to do well in my other subjects. So I did not pass ROTC. The colonel wrote a letter to my mother stating that I made the honor roll and he would like me to become an air force officer. My Jewish mother got this letter, called the colonel up, said, "I'd like my son to be an air force officer, but he flunked ROTC." Colonel Ernest Carwyile said, "Mrs. Cherry, don't worry; we'll double him up his sophomore year." So my sophomore year I was in my uniform constantly. It was one of the smartest things that ever happened to me because at the height of Vietnam I was able to go to law school. I graduated Missouri in 1966 and got my lieutenant bars, second lieutenant. Eighteen months into law school I was promoted to first lieutenant. So Mom was right. I loved being in the Air Force ROTC. I did very well in that. I was captain of Scabbard and Blade, which was like the honor society of ROTC. I went to summer camp at Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base between my junior and senior years in Kansas City. I loved it. I loved doing stuff like 3 that. When I graduated from law school, I was supposed to go to Lowry Air Force Base to intelligence school. But my roommate in college, Terry Cantor, was in the navy and he came through St. Louis. I said, "Terry, I haven't heard a thing from the air force." He said, "Mike, there's a number you can call." So I called the number and they said, "You know what? We really don't need you anymore; you have a bad back." I said, "I know I have a bad back. I'm the one who told you I had the bad back." I went to Scott Air Force Base for my final physical. A couple of sergeants said, "Kid, tell them everything that's wrong with you." Well, I had a bad back. So this is when the air force was cutting down on the number of officers. This was 1969 to 1970. My mother had moved to Las Vegas in '68. My daughter Meryl was born in September of 1969. I was married to Rachel at the time. I called my mom up and I said, "I don't have to go in the service." She said, "How about coming out to Las Vegas? It's a great place for young attorneys." And I did; I came out to Las Vegas. I got a job as a security guard at Wonder World where my mother did public relations and advertising, and I got a job as a law clerk at the Public Defender's Office. So I'd arrest people on Wednesday and interview them in the jail on Thursday, which I use as a joke. They'd say, "You look familiar." I'd say, "Nah, you've never seen you before." We took the bar in September of 1970. That's when they used to give the bar. You had to take it in Reno. So I had to fly up to Reno. I didn't know if I passed or not. I sent Rachel and Meryl?Rachel was pregnant at the time?to Tennessee where Rachel was from. Because I had passed the Missouri Bar, I figured if worst comes to worst, if I flunk the Nevada Bar, we'd go back to St. Louis where I'm a lawyer. Halloween night I found out I passed. I called her up and said, 4 "Come back; I'm going to be a lawyer here." Sure enough, there was an opening in the Public Defender's Office. I worked my way up in the Public Defender's Office to assistant public defender. I was there for seven years and then went into private practice for twenty years. Then I was the special public defender where I did nothing but murder cases for a year and a half. In '98, I ran for district judge and won; beat two women in the primary and beat a guy in the general who's now a federal judge; the two ladies we beat are also both judges. In 2006, I decided to come to the Supreme Court. I ran unopposed in 2002, 2006 and 2012. My friend Richard Bryan, who was governor of Nevada, said to me, "The only way you'll run is unopposed or scared." I ran scared the first time and unopposed the next three elections. Some people were starting the B'nai B'rith Lodge. This is before I even got here. They went to Wonder World and there were two brothers that were heavily involved in Wonder World, Bernie Kaufman and Herb Kaufman. Stan Lobe and Mort Kirsch solicited Herb and Bernie to join B'nai B'rith. My mother found out that if you were under thirty it was half-price. So she signed me up for B'nai B'rith before I even got here. So my Jewish heritage, as you say, started with B'nai B'rith. They approached me to be adviser to the youth group and that's what I did. I was the adviser from like 1971 to 1973. I worked my way up to B'nai B'rith where I ended up?my B'nai B'rith history?as president of my lodge. I ended up as president of district four, which was the ten western states and British Columbia. I was the president of 17,500 Jews, which is like being the president of 17,500 presidents. Then I was on the board of governors and went to Washington, D.C. constantly. I was an international vice president of B'nai B'rith. So for twenty-five straight years I went to B'nai B'rith conventions all over the West Coast?Hawaii, British Columbia. I was heavily involved in 5 international B'nai B'rith from '76 to about 2000. Except for the years of 1998 when I ran for office, and in 1984 when I had a wedding that I had at my house for my secretary, I went to every international convention all over the world. So I was very active in B'nai B'rith. I had a tremendous history in B'nai B'rith, such a tremendous history that I ended up being chairman of ADL, chairman of Hillel here in Las Vegas, and served in those capacities. How did I get involved in Temple Beth Sholom? It was the only temple in town. If you were a member of the temple, preschool was cheaper. So I joined Temple Beth Sholom and I was very happy being at Temple Beth Sholom. There was a man named Eugene Kirshbaum who was on the board, and Eugene started Ner Tamid, the reform congregation. So he left the board. So I became a board member of Temple Beth Sholom; I took Eugene's place. I worked my way up to. first vice president of Temple Beth Sholom. There were a lot of problems with the rabbi. Oscar Goodman was president and his term was up and I ran for president. I lost by a vote of fourteen to eight, and they fired the rabbi by a vote of fourteen to eight. So you can tell that I was a rabbi person. So I still got elected first vice president even though I lost the presidency. We were happy. Everything was around, everything was done at Beth Sholom at that time. It was at 16th and Oakey and everybody met there. B'nai B'rith met there. Hadassah met there. ORT met there. The men's club. The sisterhood. What years are we talking about there? We're talking about '70 to '78. In 1977, I ran for president and lost. In '78, I got a call from a lady, Fran Sanoff, and she said to me, "How would you like to be president of Ner Tamid?" I said, "I'm not even a member of Ner Tamid." She was a neighbor and she said, "Just leave a check for two hundred and fifty dollars and you can join Ner Tamid." So I was nominated by the nominating committee to be president of Ner Tamid. Sure enough, 6 somebody ran off the floor against me. But this time I had my ducks in line, and I was president of Ner Tamid from '78 to '80. So I'm a past president of Ner Tamid, and I was very active in Ner Tamid, on the board for years. As I was active all these years, the temples have grown from one, which was Beth Sholom, to now you have twenty of them. We have four or five Chabads. What an incredible Jewish community we have. I think there's actually like seven or eight of them now. Really? Jesus. We have twenty-three synagogues. It's incredible. But when I was here everything was at the Beth Sholom. Life was around?it wasn't until '73 or '74 that Ner Tamid was formed. I think there was an orthodox one over on Maryland Parkway; I forgot the name of it. But that was the basis of the Jewish community, the temples. It was temple life and then B'nai B'rith was very active. We had a big lodge here, one of the biggest lodges. It was named after Nate Mack. Jerry Mack was president of Valley Bank, and his father, Nate Mack, was one of the first bankers to ever lend money to casinos. So we went to Jerry and said, "Can we name our lodge after you?" Mort Kirsh and Stan Lobe went to him. And he says, "As long as it's successful, you can have my father's name." So it was well-known, and I was well-known in Jewish communities on the West Coast as the president of B'nai B'rith from the interior, which was Arizona, Utah and Nevada. There had not been a district president until I came along. So it sounds like you've had a seamless life of just running for something all the time. I was always involved in either Jewish life or now politics. That's been my whole life. Unfortunately, my marriage fell apart in the eighties. She moved to California to go to 7 school and never came back. Then she died in 2005. My kids are forty-five and forty-three. My daughter is a schoolteacher in Oregon with two children, fifteen and thirteen. She's married a computer guy. He was a cop for a while. Called me up, "Dad, I'm not going to be a cop anymore." I said, "I'm real sorry that you're not going to be wearing a bulletproof vest to work, with two children, every morning." My daughter's been a teacher since '94, two years here in Las Vegas, and then has been in Beaverton, Oregon since '96. What does she teach? She teaches elementary school, first grade. My son was with Harry Reid in Washington, D.C. First, he worked for me. During the summertime, the first year he worked for me, he toured Europe and I paid him. The second summer he toured the United States and I paid him. The third summer my partners said, "Have him get a job, a real job." So he went with K News and he was a reporter. Then Harry Reid offered him a job; he was a deputy communications director. He was there a number of years. At the time of 9-11, he was with the environmental defense, running back and forth to New York. Shortly thereafter, he went with Shelley Berkley and he was with Berkley until she lost the senate race. Then he moved in with his girlfriend whose father is Cantor Bergman. He met her during their AZA and BBYO days. Then they hooked up in Washington. She was with the law firm Piper Rudnick. She then took a job over in Brussels, and he was running back and forth to Brussels. Then she took a job in L.A. with Warner Bros. where she presently is employed. She had a wonderful home there. He was living there and he went from job to job. Then just recently, this Monday, he started with the City of Henderson as their government affairs person. So he's back with me. He's living at home. 8 So it's me and I have a roommate named Bruce Randall who takes care of my house, because I have a house in Carson City. I need two houses like I need two heads because I'm single and no kids. My mother lived with me for a while; she had to go into assisted living and then she passed away. But Bruce has been a friend of mine. He's a massage therapist. He's down on his luck. He's been a friend of mine since 1983. He takes care of my house. Now I have...it's like a fraternity house with my son and my roommate and me. Is it "Animal House" or is it AEPi-ish? It's like AEPi. We're very scholastic, very computer-oriented with Bruce. Free massages and free reflexology. Like if the air conditioner goes out, he gets on the roof with the guy to make sure he does it right. I want one of those. He's great. He's fabulous. But that's it. That's, in a nutshell, my activities. Let's talk about your mom a little bit more. So single mom. She decides to move to Las Vegas. Do you know the story of how she decided to come here? Yes. My mother didn't graduate from college. Tell me her name. Naomi Cherry. When she got divorced she had never worked outside the house. So she got a job in a jewelry store selling jewelry. Then she got involved in discount houses. These were discount houses. The first one was one called Government Employees Mart in St. Louis where you had to have a card to get in; you had to buy a membership. She became very special at opening these places. She traveled all over the country opening them, Pennsylvania and Minneapolis. We moved in with Grandma. So I was really raised by my grandmother. My father lived in California for a while and then he came back, but it was just like he'd take us to a ball game or?he had a 9 boat?take us out to the river or take us to see his mother or his relatives. So my mother traveled all over the country opening discount houses. She hooked up with a guy named Herb Kaufman in East St. Louis, Collinsville and Belleville where they did some stores over there. Meanwhile, she gets a job in Joplin, Missouri, managing a store called Newman's Department Store. Jewish people from St. Louis had opened a store in Joplin, Missouri, and she was the manager. I spent between my junior and senior year visiting her in Joplin, Missouri. My brother wouldn't live there; he stayed in St. Louis, but I went and visited Mommy. Then she moved to Enid, Oklahoma, where she managed Newman's Department Store. She got tired of trying to come back; she always had to take a bus back to St. Louis to visit Grandma and Grandpa and everybody else. She got word from Herb, who had moved out here in '66 to open up Wonder World, four stores, four discount houses. She was with Herb, the Kaufmans and Wonder World from about 1968 till the mid-seventies, late seventies, maybe even the eighties. Then she was a Realtor. Here's my mother's story. Nobody passes the real estate test the first time. But not only was my mother in real estate school, she had a hysterectomy in the middle of it. So she goes to the instructor and the instructor says, "Naomi, you're not going to pass anyway; take the test." Mommy passed the test the first time, right off the bat, and became a successful Realtor. She lived with my aunt and uncle until my aunt passed away from breast cancer. Her name was Gerry Balm. Her husband was named Jerry Balm. He was a captain at the International when it first opened. When I came out here in 1969, just after I graduated law school with my wife who was pregnant at the time with Meryl, I said I'd never come back here; it was too goddamn hot. But we got to see Barbra Streisand, the opening act at the International, because Uncle Jerry was a captain there. 10 Then when I was a public defender and Elvis would play at the International, the cops would come up to me and say, "We understand Uncle Jerry works at the International Hilton; can you get us a reservation? Don't you get a comped?" I'd say, "Well, what about my case?" "Well, we'll take care of the case." So it helped me out. There was nothing illegal about it. She lived with Jerry until Aunt Gerry died at age fifty-one in 1978 of breast cancer. Then she moved into Vegas Towers and she lived in there until 2008. Then she moved in with me for a couple of years. When I went to the Supreme Court, she moved into my house in 2008 and took care of my house. Then it got to be too much for her with the pool, with the gardener and everything. So she was in assisted living and she was the bell of the ball out at?this is the living place?Willow Creek. That's where she died; she died at Willow Creek on February 21 of this year. My father was a mechanic and was the type of father that didn't pay child support. But my mother never wanted to put him in jail. He owned a boat, which was in his mother's name. Everything he had fell off a truck. He was always able. But he was a very good mechanic. He had four marriages besides my mother and lived with one woman, who I thought he killed. Because he went to Aruba and he comes back and says, "I'm married again." And I met his wife. Then all of a sudden, she's no longer around. I said, "Dad, what happened to her?" "Well, her mother wanted to move in from Brooklyn and I didn't want them, so I sent her back to Brooklyn." So he had five marriages until he died in 1976 in a car accident. When he got the fifth marriage?he married a gal named Margie?I got very mad at him and I said, "I can't take it anymore." I didn't want anything to do with him. On September 11, 1969, my daughter was born. I called my mother and said, "Meryl's been born." "Michael, you've got to call your dad." So from that phone call we became very close again. Between 1969 and 11 1976, when I moved out here, he'd come out here. The kids loved him; my kids adored him. He was a real athlete and we'd play tennis together and we'd take on people. He was quite a jock. But for whatever reason, God decided that this relationship was going to be very short lived and he got killed. Actually, before he got killed he said, "I've got to get rid of Margie; I want to move out here with you and Rachel and the kids and do something else." He was a very talented mechanic. When he died, Rachel and I were playing tennis one Saturday night. We came home and my grandfather, my aunt, the one who died of cancer in '78, and my mom were at the house. I walked in and said, "Dad's dead?" They said, "Yes." I had dreamed it two weeks before that he died of a heart attack. I'm very psychic. At the funeral Margie threw herself on the coffin. The best story about my father's death is that he loved riding motorcycle. He had a Honda T-shirt and belt. Margie said, when we went down to the funeral home, "Would you put this on? I know they're just going to have the shawl on him because that's what Jews wear, but have them put the belt and the T-shirt on." I went to high school with the guy who ran the funeral home. My brother knew him very well. So we go down there. His name was Norman Roth. We said, "Norman, you don't have to put this on Dad, just put it in the coffin." We go to the graveside and Grandma Marcko says, "I want to say goodbye to my son; I want to kiss my son goodbye." We know that the belt's not on and the T-shirt's not on and Margie's going to have a shit hemorrhage. "Grandma, you don't want to see him. He was in an accident. They've cleaned him up. But, Grandma, you don't..." "I want to say goodbye to my son." They open the coffin, and Norman had put the shirt and the belt on him. So that was it. My brother lives in St. Louis. He's got grown children?two boys, and a daughter in high school and a son that just graduated from high school. He had two marriages. He married his 12 babysitter the second time. The first marriage...he got divorced. She's got terrible mental problems and stuff. In fact, he's best friends with her husband. When they do something, they do it all together so that the kids can all be together. But that's it. Did he ever live out here? No. He wanted to stay in St. Louis. I go and visit him periodically. I was honored by my law school, Washington University. So I got to see him then. I was honored by my high school. I got to see him then. And then just recently I made a speech before the St. Louis Metropolitan Bar Association. They paid for me to go out there, and they let me take my son out with me. That's very cool. So we went out and we stayed with him again. My brother is a very successful real estate person, property manager, very, very successful. For whatever reason, God's been good to us. We're both self-made. We've both made a lot of money; I did it in law, he did it in real estate. You must have taken after your mother. Yes, that's it. That's where the brains are. Yes, hard work. My mother was always preached about bread cast upon the water. Whatever you get out of a community, you've got to give back. So I was chairman of the March of Dimes. I was on the Cancer Society board. I'm still on the Olive Crest board for neglected and abused children in foster care. I've been active with my colleague Nancy Saitta who's on the Supreme Court in the Adoption Exchange because she was adopted when she was a child. When we were district court judges, we'd go out on Adoption Exchange over at the Government Center where they have all the agencies where you can find out about adoptions. So I've been active in everything that you can think of. There isn't anything that I haven't been active in. I was honored by Hadassah. I was 13 honored by my temple. I've been honored by my high school, my law school. Just I've been real fortunate, all because of Mom. When you think about?you've been very involved in the Jewish community. Very involved. How would you describe?because do you ever?I never can see historically any anti- Semitism until maybe more recently? It couldn't be because the hotels were just loaded with Jewish people whether they be the owners or they be the pit bosses or whatever. They were very active in this community, Jewish people, in every aspect. There are Jewish judges. The mayor for twelve years was Oscar Goodman. Now his wife is the mayor. And Oscar was president of Temple Beth Sholom and Carolyn Goodman starte