Transcript of interview with Karen Hayes by Robert F. Darling, March 2, 1980

UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes i An Interview with Karen Hayes An Oral History Conducted by Robert Darling Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes iv Abstract On March 2, 1980, collector Robert F. Darling interviewed state assemblywoman, Karen Hayes (born October 16th, 1935 in Cedar City, Utah) in her home in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview covers her personal history, the history of Las Vegas, and the local political environment. The gaming industry is also discussed, in addition to the Sagebrush rebellion and future local political projections and trends. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 1 Informant is Karen Hayes. The date is March 2nd, 1980 at three o’clock PM. The place: 6010 Euclid Avenue, Las Vegas, Nevada. The collector is Robert Darling, 1601 East University, Number 125, Las Vegas, Nevada. The project is Local History, Project Two, Oral Interview, Life of a Las Vegas Old-Timer. ‘Kay. First thing I’d like to start with is your background information. Basically, where you grew up and what brought you to Las Vegas. Okay, I was born in Cedar City, Utah. We moved down here while I was in the—actually when I was in the first grade. Mm-hmm. And we lived here for, I think two or three years, which was in the 1940s, it was during the war and I—you know, I could remember certain things about that but very little. Then we moved back to Utah and then moved down here to stay in 1950. So you actually came to Las Vegas with your family (unintelligible)? Right. I was still in school in 1950. And I had basically lived here all my life with the exception of going away to school, and also when my husband and I were first married, we lived in Harlingen, Texas. Mm-hmm. And then we both went to school in Utah, to college in Utah, but the rest of the time we have lived here. So you would say you first arrived in Las Vegas in approximately what year? Approximately 1941 or ’42. Somewhere in the early forties. Okay. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 2 I don’t really remember. But that was—as I say, we stayed here then for just two or three years and then went back to Utah. Then returned in 1950 to stay. Do you remember Las Vegas back then? Do you have any initial impression? Or memory? In the 1940s? Yes. I can vaguely remember, we lived on Casino Center Drive, just about two blocks off Fremont and there was about one more block of houses. And then, after that I used to play and it was desert. Mm-hmm. So really, four blocks off Fremont Street at that time was desert. There just wasn’t anything here. And as a tiny little girl I can remember my mother and dad talking about someone who was coming into Las Vegas and was going to build this big hotel and how foolish it was that, you know, what would Las Vegas have to offer any of the tourists? Who’d want to come here? Uh-huh. And these are, you know, fairly fuzzy memories but, but I do remember that—I remember then also, I remember after the Frontier Hotel was built, I remember going out to an ice skating show and you know, it was really out in the desert at that time. (Laughs) At The Frontier. Absolutely, out in the desert. Well, actually it was the Last Frontier at that time. Uh-huh. Would you describe Las Vegas as, as good a place to live as any? Or better or worst or how do you feel about living in Las Vegas? Well, I love to live in Las Vegas, obviously, living here for so long and we have travelled, just on vacations, practically all over the United States. In fact, I think there’s only about two states that we have not been in, and I think Nevada and Las Vegas has more to offer than any other state. Just you know, the overall picture. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 3 Mm-hmm. Of course, I love the mountains and the green trees and grass and things like that, that you find somewhat in other states but never the less, I think just overall, Las Vegas is a tremendous place to live. So of course you’ve heard people say stuff like I can’t believe people actually live in Las Vegas, right? I mean you’ve heard that. That’s a common reaction. Oh yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. In fact, we went back to the World’s Fair in New York which was what? Over ten years ago and we were in one of the exhibits and they were asking people where they were from and we said Las Vegas and it was just “Oh!” In the crowd, you know. No one else got this kind of a response, but we did. There’s actually people that live here is their reaction, right? Mm-hmm. So you don’t hold much credence, at least? I mean it’s just, you say, that’s just a bias, right? Pretty much, that there’s no—? Well, I just think that when people come here, they see the Strip. They don’t see two blocks off the Strip. Mm-hmm. So it’s hard for them to believe that we do have what we have. Like for instance, we have the highest number of churches per capita in the United States and when you tell this to the people, it just absolutely blows their mind. Because certainly you do not associate Las Vegas with being a religious community. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 4 Yes. I didn’t know that. But that is a fact. Yes. Yes. I didn’t know that. Could you describe any really major changes that you have seen take place over the years in Las Vegas? For instance in the fifties or in the sixties and the seventies? Oh yes. When I was—well, when I graduated from high school, Las Vegas High School was the only high school in town. And really I have witnessed the growth here in this state. When I was growing up, Las Vegas still really had a country flavor. It was really still a small town type city. And over the years of course, it has become very urban, very metropolitan. Mm-hmm. And it’s been really an experience to watch a town grow. Because not too many people have that opportunity. Yes. It’s a very new town. Too many people live in—like New York or Philadelphia, where it’s been that way for years and years and years. But Las Vegas is, has really had a lot of changes over the years. Would you say most of them have been for better or worse? The larger population, would you say it’s worse now or? No. Because I remember when we could walk home after dark without worrying about somebody ripping us off. (Laughs) Mm. And I don’t like the crime element that has of course accompanied the big city. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 5 But as I say, when I was growing up it was really still a small town. We walked everywhere we went. Mm-hmm. And I remember I used to walk to high school. And many times, you know, we’d walk down to Fremont Street to go to a movie, come home after the movie and no one ever had any fear. And even at that time, we didn’t lock our doors. Mm-hmm. You know, it was just— Yes. It was still a small town and can you imagine trying to do that today? Not really. So in a way then you’d say, it has—its better. It used to be better than it is now? Well, in that respect. However, I have to say, you know, there are other things now that are better. Certainly we have a lot more cultural opportunities here. Mm-hm. Because when I was growing up, we went to movies and of course, there was all the entertainment on the Strip. But that was just about it. Yes. We didn’t have the, Ham Hall, or Judy Bayley Theatre, or really any kind of cultural program at all, which we do have now. I enjoy that. And I think that as we grow, we will get even more things like museums and this sort of thing. Mm-hmm. I like the shopping that we have now. For years and years, if we wanted to do any serious shopping, like for furniture or whatever— UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 6 Leave town, yes. We would go to Los Angeles or Salt Lake. You’ve kind of already answered the next question. How do you feel that Las Vegas can offer children a normal upbringing? I guess you feel that it could and the Strip wouldn’t really influence them in any negative way, either. No. I don’t really think it does. It certainly didn’t me. In fact, I think perhaps, that we are more cautious about gambling or drinking or whatever, simply because we do live around it. We (unintelligible). Mm-hmm. I have seen, in all the years that I have been here, I have seen people come from like, small towns in Utah, and they’ve grown up in Utah, and come down and just go absolutely crazy. (Laughs) Because of the gaming and the glitter, you know. Yes. The exciting life we have here. Mm-hmm. But then on the other hand, the people that grew up here, that doesn’t phase ‘em. Because it’s just normal part of living. Yes. I’ve experienced that also. Mm-hmm. How would you feel your family feels about Las Vegas? You mean my imme— Your children? My children? UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 7 Your children, yes. I think they really like Las Vegas. I think that they enjoy living here, as far as I know. Mm-hmm. Because Gary wants to come back here, my oldest son wants to come back here to live. Yes. So after travelling he still thinks that this is where he wants to be? Yes. Mm-hmm. And I think you’d find that this is one reason we have the tremendous growth here. So many people say, you know we don’t like Las Vegas. It’s too hot here in the summer or whatever. (Laughs) Too cold in the winter. They move away but so many people that I have known through the years have moved away and then have returned to stay. Mm-hmm. Yes. Did you finish college or graduate school? Yes. I finished college. And your degree was in? I have a teacher certificate in business. Okay. Now before I go into your political involvement could I get a kind of background of your occupational history prior to entering in politics? Did you teach at all, for instance? I did some substitute teaching and I was a legal secretary for my husband off and on through the years and most of my experience has been in, in secretarial work. Mm-hmm. I had been a secretary in—when he was in the service in Texas. And then, before we were married I worked as a secretary for Las Vegas police department. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 8 And had some interesting experiences there. And you know, getting back into the—I’m sure you wanted to have some of my experiences growing up here in Las Vegas. Yes I would. I worked at, in traffic, as a secretary when Bob Dula worked there. And you know, Bob was killed. Two juveniles hit him and he was killed while on duty for the police department. Mm-hmm. And of course, Dula Center is named after Bob Dula. A lot of people like that, that have schools or parks or whatever named after ‘em, you know it was kinda neat, because I knew them personally. Mm-hmm. Yes. And the old Stewarts that had Stewart Ranch that are now dead, I knew them when I was growing up and you know, my children will go to school, like for instance at Louis C. Rowe, why, I knew Louis C. Rowe very well. He was a very good friend of our family. In fact, my grandparents have pictures that he painted and gave them to them. And my children just thought that was the neatest thing in the world, when they went to that school and of course by then, he was dead. And mother really knew him, ancient history but— So because it’s a new town there’s been a chance to be directly involved with the historical forming of it and stuff, if you’ve lived here for many years. And there’s a lot of things that I remember that—like for instance, you know, when we were having the atomic bombs, the testing— Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 9 I remember the reaction of the town then and what happened. I mean whenever we had a bomb that was tested, it was announced on the radio and everyone got up early in the morning to go out and watch the shot. Yes. And of course now we now the reaction that people are having to that and of course the suits that are filed and the whole bit. But at that time whenever we had a test, an A-bomb test, it was—it was a community affair. ‘Cause everybody got up and a lot of people went out to the outskirts of town in the desert, you know. This would always be early in the morning, and watch for the flash of light and the mushroom cloud. Mm-hmm. And of course, you’d get the shock waves and the whole bit, where now everything is so secretive out there that you don’t get that experience. And of course, it’s all underground anyway. Yes. So you have done a few things besides just be a housewife, then. (Laughs) Yes. (Laughs) Okay. What would you say prompted your interest into politics here? Well, of course, my husband was a legislator and he served one term. In fact, not even a full term and was appointed district judge. Mm-hmm. And while he was in Carson City, I of course went up to visit him, occasionally. Mm-hmm. And really fell in love with the system. The legislative process. And it was something I thought, oh, I would love to do something like that but I thought, you know, no way. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 10 You (unintelligible)? I just don’t think I would have the talent or the knowledge or whatever. (Laughs) And of course at that time my children were all at home and I had a two-year-old baby and I thought there’s just no way that I would be able to do something like that. So when the time came for the next election and we were looking at the candidates, I just didn’t feel that anyone could represent the district any better than I could. (Laughs) So I decided to run and ran and won. And the day after I as elected reality hit me and my first response was, “What have I done?” (Laughs) So I guess you’d regard it as a pretty satisfying personal experience, then? It really is. And—well, really, I had, through the years had been kinda on the outskirts of politics. I was really never that interested in politics, even though my husband had a political science major in college. But somehow or another I was always managing to get involved in going door to door or getting a coffee or whatever for somebody, you know. Campaigning. Even though, that just simply—I didn’t feel was my bag. Mm-hmm. But I think probably somewhere deep inside of me, it really was a real love of the system. And that’s why I was doing it. Not just because somebody asked me and I just didn’t have courage to say, no. So you’re currently assemblywoman for District 13, is that correct? Mm-hmm. Yes. When did you first hold that position? ‘Kay. I was elected in 1974. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 11 And been there ever since. And so this says, I am serving my third term. Getting ready to run through my fourth term. Okay. How does your family feel about you being in politics—their mother? Well, it depends on the day. (Laughs) (Laughs) In general. No. I really feel that the family really supports me. In fact, it was kind of cute; when I first ran, my oldest son then was sixteen, at that time? Thereabouts. Probably, yes. Anyway and he had a motorcycle and I had some small signs and he had got those signs on his motorcycle, tied ‘em on the back of his motorcycle and take out maybe five signs and put ‘em in the desert and then come back in and get some more. The kids have always, always helped me. Mm-hmm. You know stuffed envelopes, we used to have envelopes strung all over the house. Especially the first time I campaigned and we really didn’t have that much help. And really I think they have always supported me. It’s rough though when mother’s away for five months or so every two years, literally. Yes. (Laughs) Plus in the meantime. You know, whole weekends, uh-huh. And then, I’m always—I’m always busy. But after Keith—in fact, when he was so sick, we discussed, you know, whether I should perhaps get out of this. And the response from my family was, “No. We feel you’re doing a good job and we will UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 12 support you (unintelligible).” So—however when it’s hot out there and I’m asking him to put signs up or keep the house up while I’m campaigning, they may feel different. How would you say your friends feel about it? Generally, I have an awful lot of support from my friends and its very touching at times if ever, say, something derogatory is printed in the newspaper or whatever. (Laughs) I think you’d be surprised at the friends that call and say, “Can we do anything to help you? Or “I just want you to know that we are your friends and we think you’re doing a tremendous job.” This sort of thing. And how ‘bout the church? What’s their reaction, is it basically the same? What do you mean, the church? (Laughs) Well, the church that you attend. You mean my friends in the church? Right. Yes. Yes. They have. Same thing, huh? Uh-huh. I guess you said you’re ‘gonna run for your fourth term, so you are interested in continuing in politics? Oh yes, yes. Do you have any ambitions beyond assemblywoman? Or? Oh, I don’t know. You know, I—my life has taken such a turn these last few months with the death of my husband, that I really don’t know exactly what route I’m going to go. I think UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 13 eventually, I would like to run for the senate. Not this time, but somewhere down the road. Because I don’t like campaigning every two years. I just feel that it would—you know it’s just better to be able to serve four terms and have one campaign where you’re not having to work. Because really with the two year term as an assemblyman, you’re campaigning constantly. And you know, I think it sometimes, it affects your work because I think it would be nice not to be worrying about the next election. And, you know, it’s just always on your mind. So it’s been a positive experience for you and apparently your family also, would you advise any of your children to follow a political career of any kind? If they want to. In fact, Gary is very interested in politics. (Laughs) So you basically leave that up to him, they’d have your blessing if they decided. Yes, yes. In fact, a couple years ago, Gary had it all planned out where he was going to go to school and then he would return home just in time, so he can campaign for the assembly in my assembly state. And he says, “And Mother, you can run for the senate.” (Laughs) Right. I said, “Thou shalt not covet thy mother’s assembly seat.” (Laughs) In terms of this state as a whole, would you feel that Las Vegas has lead the way in political thought or influence? Or is it followed or been indifferent—different in other parts of the state? Or? Well, up until 1972, when they had reapportionment of the state legislature, Las Vegas, or Clark County was in the minority. Mm-hmm. And it seemed that we were always at the mercy of the North and the cow counties. And then of course, along came a suit, to reapportion the state legislature. A lawsuit to reapportion. And we UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 14 ended up with the majority of the people down here. You know, it was—the suit was based on population. And—so suddenly, we gained the majority and it’s been a rather trying situation for the cow counties and the north because they have always had the majority and here this young upstart, Clark County, all of a sudden, we’ve got more people and really more political clout than they do. So I would say, no, Las Vegas has not really been the leader in the state, simply because we have not had the majority until recently. But you feel that possibly it is now? Oh yes, yes, we really are the dominating force now. However, I have found that we’ve had so much flack about being the majority that most of the legislators just bend over backwards to do the right thing by the—especially the small counties in the north. And, I think perhaps why it’s because for so many years we were the minority down here. And sometimes we were really treated as the minority. (Laughs) (Laughs) And so consequently, we’re very benevolent. (Laughs) Mm. Would you compare Las Vegas and or Nevada in terms of nationwide areas? Would you—any specific differences that you’ve noticed or feel that exist in this state or this town? You mean politically? Yes. In fact, I have people coming into town from other states and—that talk to me on occasion, that are amazed that upstate legislature would be a normal person talking to them. Mm-hmm. I think that in Nevada, because of our small size and because of our population, we certainly have more input with the constituency. And vice-versa, the constituency has more input with us. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 15 But apparently in some states, especially California and some of the larger states, there’s hardly any way you can get to your legislator. And people will call me here at my home and of course we do not have an office down here. You know our office is our home. Right. People will call me and say, could I speak to assemblyman, Hayes. And I’ll say, “This is she.” (Laughs) And there’s a, you know, a minute silence where they’re just like, what’s going on? (Laughs) Yes. They can’t understand that, you know, we would be so available to talk to them. So I do feel that you know, smaller is nicer, smaller government really is better. Probably closer to how it was originally intended to be in this state, yes. Because I have—and then also when I’m campaigning, you know, we go door to door, and here again, I find a lot of amazement as I knock on doors and someone has just moved to Nevada from California or someplace and they just can’t believe that here is their incumbent legislator. (Laughs) Knocking on the door in a hundred and twenty-five degree heat. (Laughs) Yes. Wanting to know how they feel. Mm-hmm. Many people that live here that are non-Mormon feel that because of the large number of Mormons that are in Southern Nevada that they have a great political influence, locally. Would you care to comment on that? Being a Mormon yourself, how do you—you feel that that’s true? If so, is it positive, negative? UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 16 Well, I think there’s a fallacy. I think people feel that there’s probably a lot more Mormons here than there really are. (Laughs) I think that there’s only thirteen percent of the population is Mormon. I do feel that they have a great deal of influence politically. Because they do get out and vote. And they are interested and active. I think that the Mormon Church takes a lot of flak and sometimes is accused of things that in reality are just not true. But then, on the other hand, members of the LDS Church are very civic minded. And we got into a lot of heat with the ERA. But I think if you will go back through the history of Nevada you will find that members of the church are just plain interested in the community. And have always been politically active. And probably always will be politically active. And personally I do feel that it’s a positive force because usually they’re pretty good people and they really normally do not have and axe to grind. They are just simply interested in the community. All very, very family oriented and certainly want what’s best for the family and their children. So I feel that’s positive and I think that after the ERA question dies down, I think that once again people will be appreciating the interest that the Mormon community does have. So basically you’d say that if any Mormon influence does exist it’s just because of participation and nothing else. No covert activity or anything like that there. Right, right. Okay. But we have, in the Mormon Church, we have a tremendous grapevine and Mormons are by nature, very friendly with each other. Because we have so much contact at church meetings and this sort of thing. And you know, neighbors talking to their other neighbor, and, “Hey, did you hear about this?” And, you know, some political activity and “Oh yes, I’d like to go with you,” or whatever. So this is what happens. It’s really a grapevine, in fact, it’s not necessarily an UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 17 organized thing by the church itself, which a lot of people think it is and that is just not true. But we do have—being a member of the church we have a lot of people that we know, because of our association and because if you’re an active Mormon, there’s just so many things in the church to do and you meet a lot of people. And we have a lot of contacts and this is why the activity. But it really is not an organized thing, by quote, “the church.” It’s just simply the people. (Laughs) Right. So any possible political influence or shaping of policy (unintelligible) would be—you would generalize and say would be just through participation and no intentional attempt by the organization of the church itself? Right. Because—let’s face it, we all have differences of opinion. Even elected officials that belong to the church. Bob (Unintelligible) have disagreed on numerous occasions. And even one time during the session, Jim Gibson and I—I mean Jim was really upset with me because of the bill that I had held in my committee. Yes. Jim Gibson is a Mormon. Jim Gibson, who is a Mormon. Senator Gibson. And I had a bill that I had held in my committee that he just didn’t feel I should be holding. (Laughs) And so you know, we have disagreements even with each other. So certainly we all think differently. We don’t always agree and there are a few things that we are relatively united on. The ERA was one of them but I think even there, you will find that there were, you know, quite a few people, members of the church here in Nevada that did support ERA and certainly were free to do it. Although the church formally was against the ERA. Yes. The church did actually make a statement. They were against it. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 18 Okay. But nevertheless the people still, in the church still have their free agency to choose whether or not they are against it. Course. Okay, as long as we’re talking about influence, Ralph Lamb has been pretty big figure in Southern Nevada, I guess over, a little over a decade and a half. Or he was but isn’t now. What type of influence would you say that he exerted, over in Las Vegas? Ralph Lamb? It’s probably unusual for a sheriff to have the kind of power that he did or influence, whatever you want to call it, locally. Wouldn’t you think? Or? No. I don’t think it’s really that unusual. (Laughs) Really? (Laughs) Because, let’s face it, you know the sheriff in any situation is a pretty powerful person. However, I think it probably is somewhat unique in Las Vegas, because of our gaming and also because the sheriff would sit on the liquor and licensing board here. That’s probably what I’m referring to, yes. I get, this is basically where he got, what everyone thinks is so much power. Because, you know, these people are ‘gonna support him. (Laughs) If he’s gonna be voting on whether or not they have a liquor license. Right. And I’m sure that he had the contacts. But here again, the whole Lamb family, I think through the years have just grown up in politics and they have all been politically active and this probably has a lot to do with it. So that’s how you would account for whatever he did have? It’s just the fact that he’s been involved so long in Las Vegas? UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 19 Well. The kind of contacts he had made and— Yes. Because you know, I don’t—I hear all these other things but I have, I have nothing to base it on and I’m sure, you know I’m sure a lot of its’ sour grapes. (Laughs) Right. From other people. But I know that there has been accusations about this, that and the other. But certainly, I could not accuse anyone, because I have nothing to base it on. I have no (unintelligible) whatsoever. And growing up and being here in Las Vegas for such a long time, I, you know, the problems you got with law enforcement and really I think he and McCarthy both are doing a remarkable job for the situation we’ve got. Mm-hmm. Metro is understaffed. There’s not enough money. You know, they had, they have some real problems. You’ve got a town the size of Las Vegas, which is what? A quarter of a million people, literally, in Clark County. And on a busy weekend or during a convention that population can almost double. And I think that you will find that most of our crimes are committed by people from outside of the states, not our local—our local residents. So, you know, it’s certainly a situation where they don’t have an awful lot of control. I think with the man power, if they had the man power and all the money they needed to run metro, both of them—both Sheriff McCarthy and Lamb, I think that things would be a lot different. So then, you don’t think that Ralph Lambs length in tenure in office has had any negative effects or? No. I don’t. Here again, you know, I also support Sheriff McCarthy cause think he’s doing the best he can with what he’s got. UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 20 Mm-hmm. And as I say, we have a very unique situation in Nevada, because of our gaming and because we are a tourist oriented town. And I think perhaps because of that we will always have problems. And besides that, we’re not the only city or state or county in the nation, that’s having problems. It seems that crime is running wild. And I think probably one of the reasons it is, is simply because of inflation and the times that we are in. We’re in very materialistic times, where everybody’s trying to keep up with the Joneses. Yes. And let’s face it, you know it’s easier to go out and knock somebody off than to have to work for a year to get the same amount of money. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. (Laughs) But I think we have to be realistic about it. You know we can say, “Oh yes,” We all like somebody tomorrow and they’re ‘gonna clean up the whole situation and I just don’t think that’s true. (Laughs) So you agree then that any succeeding’s here wouldn’t necessarily be able to attain the same power if any that Ralph Lamb had that there was really nothing special about his power then. That no other sheriff in his same position couldn’t have, or? Well, of course, I think that they’re taking some powers away, by the liquor and licensing, and also it depends on what happens to metro. Because you know, if Pat Lebowski’s decision is upheld in the Supreme Court and we go back to a sheriff’s department and a Las Vegas Police Department, then you’ve got two competing forces. And you have got, on the one hand, one UNLV University Libraries Karen Hayes 21 police chief that will have, you know, the Downtown power, and then on the other hand you have another person that will have the power of the Strip. And they will be competing. So times change and situations change and it depends on whether or not the situation is the same, whether or not these people would have the same power. So you know, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens with this court case. (Laughs) If metro is cut up into smaller chunks, then I don’t think anybody’s ‘gonna have the power that Ralph Lamb did. Yes. How do you feel about the split in the police department? Well. I have very mixed emotions and of course that happened before I was a legislature. That was in my husband’s section. That was in 1973, so I’ll blame him. (Laughs) But I feel that both the city and the county wanted the consolidation. And I feel that it should work and I think in fact if