Joseph C. Mattingly interview, February 23, 1979: transcript

UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 1 An Interview with Joseph C. Mattingly An Oral History Conducted by Sean Powers Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2020 UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 4 Abstract On February 23, 1979, collector Sean Powers interviewed Joseph C. Mattingly (born April 21st, 1912 in Texas) at his home in Las Vegas, Nevada. In this interview, Mr. Mattingly discusses working construction on many buildings in the Las Vegas and Henderson areas in Nevada. He also talks about being a member of a motorcycle club and about air conditioning in the early days. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 5 This is an interview with Joseph C. Mattingly, taking place at his home at 1005 Wessex Drive West on February 23rd, 1979. Collector is Sean Powers, 1501 Alta Drive, Las Vegas, Nevada. Project is Nevada History Interview for Dr. Roske about someone who has lived in Las Vegas for a long time. Were you born in Southern Nevada? No. I was born in Commerce, Texas. Commerce, Texas. When was the first year you moved to Nevada? I come here in March the 4th, 1936 in Reno. Did you come by yourself or did your family come with you? No. I come alone. Why’d you come to Nevada? To get a job. As what? Sheet metal worker. Sheet metal worker is the only occupation you’ve been in? I’ve been in sheet metal (unintelligible) Construction? Construction, yes. Air conditioning, sheet metal. Have you worked on any buildings that are in Nevada? I’ve worked on most all of the commercial buildings here in town. The Fremont, Sahara, the Dunes, the Thunderbird, Sands, the Stardust, University of Nevada building—the humanities building, the educational building. And I worked out at BMI plant in the early days. That was in 1941, ’42, ’43, during the construction of the BMI plant, Henderson. Of course beforehand, there wasn’t a town of Henderson. We lived in a tent city they had set up for the employees across the UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 6 road from BMI. It had about several hundred tents before the road was much of a road between Las Vegas and Henderson. No place to stay. You couldn’t get an apartment or, the town was building so fast in the war. I worked there until I left Nevada at the end of 1943. The war was going on, I left the states and I was gone two years overseas. When I come back, I went back to Reno. There wasn’t much work down here. And I stayed in Reno until 1954 and I moved to Las Vegas in February 1954 at this address, and I’d been here up till now at this same address. Okay. You mentioned BMI plant. What was that? Was that—? That’s that big I think plant that’s going out there now. They’ve split it up. Basic Magnesium Corporate. That was the name of that plant—all those big buildings out there. The site that’s on the right hand of Boulder Highway? Yes. Right yes. Right. What were the accommodations like in that tent city? Well, you didn’t have anything but a, just rows of tents, and it was six cots set up in each tent. And they charged the men to sleep in those tents in the cot. And down at the end of the roads they’d have a big set up of showers. And they worked around the clock out there. Most of the employees worked days, but they did have other shifts. You were awful dusty, hot, all that condition. Some days were terrible with the heat and the sand on your bed every night you got in there. Dirt streets, it was wood floor in each tent. Brought ‘em in from the army. There was several thousand men working out there during the building of the BMI plant. After so many several months, we finally got a little one room and a bath down at the old Hub Motel on Fifth Street, across the street from where the new City Hall is now. We stayed there a month or two, and then we bought a small little trailer, about thinking, seventeen feet long, and there was a trailer park on Fifth Street where the Central Telephone now has got an office UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 7 building. Well, that used to be, the back of that was a little trailer park. And we finally got a space in that little trailer park. We didn’t have any air conditioning in that trailer. It was hot. After several hot weeks there in that little trailer, we finally got a new small swamp cooler and set it up in the window of the trailer. But then right after that is when I—the draft was coming along, getting men pretty good, so I left. That is when I left the country, left the states. I know at one time a friend and I made a trip about 1937, from Reno down to Las Vegas. I don’t know, 1929, (unintelligible) we had tires, water cans, and gas cans, everything hanging on the sides of that thing because it was—the roads were un-grated (unintelligible) taking us two days to get from Reno down here. We made Tonopah the first night, and left Reno early in the morning and got to Tonopah before dark. And the next morning we left early, left Tonopah, and we had a lot of bad roads then. We got into Las Vegas along about four o’clock in the afternoon. There was only one hotel on the Strip then. It wasn’t the Strip, that was the old Los Angeles Highway, was the El Rancho Vegas. Of course, we went out to see that. It was a—that was a pretty fine hotel in those days. And then we—then they built the—the next hotel was the Frontier, and then the—I believe the Thunderbird, then the Flamingo come along. Things come along pretty good after they started seeing how the Strip started building. Where this house was sitting was all desert out here in those days. It was nothing. Well even twenty five years ago, this was the last street out in Las Vegas. There was nothing on out past us. There was desert in front of this house. Of course, the street wasn’t paved either when we moved in here. (Unintelligible) here in town the last company. I was only with three companies the last twenty five years. And they were—the last company didn’t do anything but commercial work, big jobs. And we had a crew for years at the Dunes and we (unintelligible) the Sahara, and Fremont. Sahara, the Mint. We did the Union Plaza too, Downtown. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 8 What type of work was that? Did you set up the (unintelligible)? We did air conditioning and the piping. Piping for plumbing? Yes. For air conditioning. Cellars, (unintelligible) towers, and plans, halls, conventions, that sort of thing. The company was, the last company was a Los Angeles company. But they had—they worked in here, they’d been in here in the 50s. But Rupert Plumbing Company and J.R. Ritter Company, they were old established firms in here, but they both, their companies are no longer. But the last company—they’re still operating here. The Union Plaza’s a pretty new hotel, so it probably hasn’t changed much over the years? No, no. It hasn’t. It was the last one—when I retired, why, we just finished that job. I suppose the older hotels have changed quite a bit since they went up? Oh yes. Oh yes. There’s—they started out small and just kept adding, and adding on, and putting high rises. We’d sometimes have two and three of those jobs going at one time. Well, we did the Hilton too. It was the International when they first built it. We did that job. That first phase of that job, we completed in a year. First phase being what? Thirty-two stories. You completed it in a year? Yes. That’s pretty quick, isn’t it? Oh yes. Well, worked lots of overtime. I worked seven days a week. They wanted to get it done. That was a pretty hot job. They just—they wanted it now. Any special consideration for working seven days a week and long hours? UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 9 Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. Everything over forty hours was double time. Double? Double time for everything. Everything over forty hours, so I usually worked ten hours, seven days. It was pretty easy to get men. Kept about a hundred men in that one job. Did they have alternating crews so you could get the day off once in a while? No. Nope. Nope. A man wanted off, he just took off. Pretty hard to take off with double time. But that’s most of them stayed late until they’re done, till they got the job, before we cut down and take six days a week, and the last, they was only working five tens until they got it completely cut down on the crews. When they—did you work on any of the additions on the hotels that you worked on before? Most of them. Oh yes. These jobs were all started small after Thunderbird. Every one of them is already gone since the 50s. Sahara today was pretty small when it first started out. They keep adding additions on to every one of ‘em. When you build the additions, do you go and replace all the old air conditioning or do you just splice into—? No, no, no. No, no. It’s all new stuff. They don’t splice onto nothing, they just—it’s just a separate building. They go up usually with a higher building and its self-contained. Really, there’s nothing—some of them are (unintelligible) and the piping and stuff, but most of the others is independent, ‘cause they usually build them away or add on the side. Very few of them have added more stories on to the top. They usually just build next door to add on. You worked on the Thunderbird from the start? UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 10 Yes. That was a small hotel. It was a (unintelligible) man come here named (unintelligible) Hicks, from California. He come here and built the El Cortez. And then he finished that, he come in here and built the Thunderbird. How do you feel about when Major Rittel bought the Thunderbird and changed the name to the Silver Bird? (Laughs) I didn’t think anything of that. I don’t know. We did a lot of work for Rittel at the Dunes, but that was all done after I retired. I thought the Dunes was owned by Suma Corporation? Major Rittel was a—he run it for many years. And then Suma bought it from Rittel or? Suma doesn’t own the Dunes. Oh. Okay. When I come to Nevada, there was a lot of work from the University of Nevada in Reno, and there was quite a lot of ranch, (unintelligible) bring that ranch work in, and mining, and the lumber industry in Northern Nevada and Northern California. It was (unintelligible) in and supplied a lot of work for metal workers. The scale was a dollar twelve and a half cents an hour. It stayed that for a couple of years. They got a twelve and a half cent raise, went to a dollar and a quarter in about 1938. And they begin getting raises about twelve and a half cents an hour raise most every year. During those times, it got up, down in Las Vegas there was no union. There was very few, most of the work in the early days was on the dam, but the construction trades here, when I come down here, the only union work was on the BMI plant. They were paying I think a dollar and a half an hour, when I come down. But it didn’t take long till they began to have, you know, work stoppages for more money, and it moved up pretty fast down here. They’d get UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 11 twenty-five cents or thirty-five cents an hour raise when they would get a raise down here because of the—they’re mostly floating people. They were from working all over, because this was advertised as a good job and men were making good money for that, for those times. That was considered a lot of money. Who came in and organized the union? There was a fellow named Hartwell here. He was the business agent when I come down here. He still has a little shop here in town. He’s retired. I think his son runs it. And they had lots of officers. They were getting new business agents and new presidents every three or four months during the boom days down here. How come? Well, there was a lot of turmoil in the unions then. Everybody fighting for power. During the building of this plant, tires were hard to get, and of course, gas in those days was real cheap. Thirty or thirty-two cents a gallon. But your tires, the army had all the tires, so that civilian population got real poor, about third grade rate tires. And they didn’t have a recapping plant in Vegas, and we used to make arrangements when we would get a day off to drive down to Los Angeles and trade our old tires in and get recaps. That was some chore, to get from here to Los Angeles on that old road. Of course, the old cars wasn’t too hot (laughs) back in those days either. The old 1941 Pontiac that I had, the tires went bad on it. We went down and got ‘em recapped and blow two of them out before we got back. Times have changed around here pretty good. I think probably for the better. We don’t have that to contend with. Did you ever hold an office in the union? Yes. In—I was a business agent in Reno. It was a much smaller union. Nowadays, in the last—Las Vegas has moved ahead in union membership. They have about three hundred now, about UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 12 three hundred twenty-five, three hundred and fifty members in the union here in Las Vegas. They have about eighty or ninety in Reno now. But when I was a business agent in Reno, it was small. We only had about twenty-five members. And it was a working job that I had. You held a job, and then if something come up, the dream it was that the employee would let you out of your job to go take of the work, whatever union business you had. And the union would pay you for your lost time. But there was no salaries like they pay the union officials today. Now with the—even the membership to have in Reno, they had a full time business agent and business manager they call him now, and secretary. When I was in office, the years that I was there, it wasn’t much of a paying job. You didn’t—years ago, most of the officials in the union didn’t get paid. It was a free job. But the unions didn’t—they only paid I think, three dollars a month dues. Now they pay thirty-five dollars a month dues. Did you ever hold office in Southern Nevada in the unions? I was—yes. At this union here, I was, I’d bring delegates to conventions and meetings, and I was steward on jobs, and that’s about the extent of my office holding in Southern Nevada. What did you do as a union steward? Well, checked ‘em in. They’d come on the job and find out if their dues were paid up if they were members of the union. And if they wasn’t union members, they would be given (unintelligible) and they would go contact the union and they would pay so much a month on their union card until it was paid out. Did you take—? And it cost fifty at that time to join. Fifty dollars. But today, it’s—I don’t know what they pay to join the union. I don’t have any idea. Its way up there, though. Did you take complaints from workers about the employers or conditions? UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 13 Oh yes. Yes. There wasn’t much, we didn’t really have—very little problems. My life today, it actually has all this fine print and contracts. We didn’t have that. Most all others (unintelligible) didn’t have—very low problems. Was there—were there any strikes that caused financial difficulties for the workers, or was work always constant? Well, we worked most all the time. There were some (unintelligible) for stoppage, but there’s only usually a day. Like these guys on board ship, you know, when you say unless there’s pumpernickel bread on board, (unintelligible) to stop the job. There’s been little of that then, there’s more of it today than there ever was years ago. When I was a young fellow, in the off years, why, there was never any stoppage. We didn’t have any problem. We never did have a strike in Reno. Only one that I remember, and that only lasted about three or four days. Out there striking for a quarter, settle for fifteen cents. So they didn’t—raises then, they didn’t get much raise. Now here, they’ll get a two dollar an hour raise in one contract. Times have changed considerably. When you first moved here, the town must have been pretty small. Oh we was—yes. It was a real small town. You said Henderson wasn’t even here. No. Boulder City was? Boulder City was out there. The dam. That was a nice little town. The government built it so they (unintelligible) out there, so they built it. They had everything. It was a nice town. Beautiful town. You’d come off the desert and drive in to the middle of town. It looked pretty good. But it sure has made growing leaps and bounds now. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 14 Do you belong to any special clubs or anything? The only clubs—I belong to several motorcycle clubs. I belong to a (unintelligible) motorcycle club. It’s people who are over forty years old. And we have about a hundred and forty members in that club. Men and women, mostly men and their wives. We have a lot of members in their seventies. And they take cross country trips on their motorcycles. I’ve—I take two trips in 1978 and ’79, but I went solo. I went by myself alone to the races in Sturgis, South Dakota. And I went to Mexico City. I left here, went to El Paso alone, met some people— (Tape one ends) I met these—it was supposed to have been fifty people make that trip through Mexico with us, but most of ‘em got scared out or something. They thought they might have problems down there and didn’t go. When I went there was only about fifteen of us made the trip. About three weeks. And I’ve made several trips through California, Utah, Idaho. We have some members in their lives that have made eight, nine thousand mile vacation trips in the summertime. There’s—they have a meet—there’s usually, in good weather, there’s a motorcycle meeting someplace west out here every weekend. They go to Death Valley in the winter and they go to Bakersfield, California and I’d make that. I’d go to Prescott, Arizona, Yuma, Arizona, and then I’d go to what they call the Aspen Cave. That’s all (unintelligible) motorcycles. They have that the first week of October in each year. There’s usually about four thousand motorcyclists show up there. But they’re all people over forty. They have some beautiful equipment. This coming year they’ll have—it’ll be the first week again in October—there’s a (unintelligible). I go to Barley, California called the Cattle Call Crazy Run. In September of each year, they have a motorcycle rally here. They hold it at the Elks Club and there’s usually about a thousand show up for that. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 15 From all around the western states? They come from all the western states mostly. But some come as far as Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah, Idaho. There’s about a dozen come down from Reno, but the majority come from Arizona and Nevada. There’s about three hundred come from Phoenix each year. They have a big club down there. What sort of events take place at this rally? Well, they have judges and motorcycles, who has the best dressed and the cleanest machine. They have uniform dressing, where it’s the single dressing or man and wife. A lot of them have their uniforms will match their motorcycles. Their pants and jackets and shirt and everything matches it, same color as their machine. And they have slow races and then what’s called a hot dog race. Hot dog on a string, you have to ride real slow so that you can (unintelligible) trophy’s up there (unintelligible) these trophy’s over here in that case. I win those at different rallies. And Boulder City has a nice rally. (Unintelligible) in April, it’ll be in April. It usually—they have it held out in the park. And (unintelligible) the hotels so there’s a lot of camping in the park there in Boulder City. It’s not a real big run. There’ll be about six or eight hundred show up there every year. And they have big bonfires and weenie roasts and cook hamburgers and that sort of thing out there. But it’s a fun thing and people, most all these people in these clubs are pretty well to do people. They have homes, businesses, there are some attorneys. We had one doctor here in the club, a lot of businessmen. I know when you were young you did motorcycle hill climbing. Well, yes. I used to hill climb on the old machines. The old 3050 (unintelligible). And then I had used to dirt track race on old racing and fair grounds. Didn’t make much. Pay you only ten dollars, fifteen dollars on a weekend. Rode all Harley’s, Harley Davidson motorcycles and UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 16 Indian motorcycles. That’s about all there was. Then there was a few Excelsior’s. But those times have changed since they’ve come in with these Japanese motorcycles, their processes, and why they sell so many. Do they have any of that hill climbing or dirt track racing in Southern Nevada? No. No. There’s no dirt track. They have racing in California. They have two big races. San Jose, California—they have a professional race there in May and September. And then they have a track in Southern California that still has races I think—the Ascot Speedway in Los Angeles. But the biggest motorcycle races are, in this nation, they’re at Daytona. And that’s usually the first week in March. This year it will be the fifth through the twelfth of March. But that’s company, most all these riders are company employees, these are professionals. And they ride for Harley Davidson, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, BMW, Norton, Ducati, all the companies hire their own riders. Each company will bring over three or four or five riders. But they’ll hit two hundred mile an hour down there on those tracks. Do you know anybody from the Southern Nevada area who races in that type of race? No. There’s none in California either. Not in that kind of race. Not very popular or just no one? There’s no—these men are all quarter million dollar riders a year. They make a quarter of a million a year, these riders. So it’s a regular profession? (Unintelligible). Oh, that’s all they do. They don’t do anything else. They work for the company. Harley Davidson’s got four riders. That’s all—they see Europe, Australia, South America. They don’t do anything else but race motorcycles. They’re young fellas, twenty, twenty-one years old. Twenty-two. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 17 So most of the racing in Southern Nevada is—? Oh. Amateur. Amateur? Oh yes. Off road racing? Most (unintelligible) road racing. We don’t have a track. No. That’s—‘course, when I was racing, machines wasn’t very fast. Of course, fast for those days. But all our racing was an old fair ground and we’d race, and then after we got through, they’d have a horse race on the same track. This racing today is big business. Not too many, I don’t think there’s a professional rider out here in this country in the big races. There’s some good riders in California, but they don’t—none of ‘em would be riding in Daytona. No out—there’s no outstanding riders that may make the jump from Southern Nevada? No. No. No. They don’t have anybody in Southern Nevada that could get in there. ‘Cause they, all the Japanese are bringing their riders from Japan. And Suzuki and Yamaha. Is it that Southern Nevada riders don’t have the opportunity to get on a paved track and race or? That’s right. They have no place to practice. And maybe not have enough capital and sponsors? Probably because the machines they’re riding costs oh forty, fifty thousand dollars. That machine belongs to the factories. It’s kind of like a franchise. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 18 That’s right. They hire their own riders. (Unintelligible) they just can’t afford. Put that kind of money in, they wouldn’t have any place to race or nobody to race against. So they’d have to follow the circuit. Go to Belgium, Germany, Marseilles, where the big races are. Do you follow the bikes that drag race out of the (unintelligible) every once in a while? Yes. I’ve got pictures of them here, of the races out there. Anybody you know who drove in those? No. Did you drive in those yourself? No. No. You don’t have that kind of motorcycle? No. No. No. I heel up too slow now. (Laughs) I don’t—I’ve got a road machine and no. I don’t take—these are all fellas that are doing this today, in their late teens, early twenties. Once in a while, you’ll see a man out there dragging that’s thirty years old, but only one or two of them. All the people in the motorcycle clubs you belong to, do they all run street machines or do they have off road vehicles too? Street machines. Well, some of them got—like these two dirt bikes I’ve got right here in the back, they, a lot of them have got those, but they don’t ride ‘em, they just put around. They don’t go very fast across the desert. They just get on these—when they’re camping, they take one and ride it out a little bit in the hills, but very few of ‘em do any (unintelligible) they’ve got good dressed machines, and they use it for highway travel. Do they ever compete in the car shows that they have here? UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 19 Yes, they do. I did last year. I didn’t this year, but I did last year. We had several—last year we had about fifteen members had their bikes in the show. (Unintelligible) for this year, they only had three put their machines in there. It’s quite a hassle and you have to stay out there with ‘em all the time. And that’s pretty time set. Three days for a trophy, and that’s all you get out of it. No, we didn’t have very many of ‘em, and a lot of these fella’s in our clubs got these kind of machines, they’re getting it in their sixties, seventies, and they don’t feel like sitting around out there all the time. (Unintelligible) if I’d have had this new machine that I bought yesterday, the day before, I bought it the twentieth, three days ago, if I’d had it, I would’ve thought to put it in there. (Unintelligible) that show was over when I got it. Is there—there’s a pretty big interest in motorcycles now. Was there a big interest in the motorcycle scene when you came to Nevada? No. Very, very few. When did there start getting more interest? When I was in town, when the town grew and the population grew. They began to—they had no dealers and I don’t think there’s a motorcycle dealer in Nevada. (Unintelligible) are in their thirties or forties. Who was the first motorcycle dealer? Odom in Reno. What about in Southern Nevada? I don’t know who was, the fellow down on Third Street had the Harley Davidson dealership, but he got it primarily to sell police motorcycles, and service them. He had a contract with the city. But, he gave it up, retired, and I don’t remember. The Japs come along in the ‘60s, put in dealerships. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 20 When you came to Las Vegas valley, were there quite a few animals in the valley? Like horses or anything like that? Oh yes. There was a lot of wild horses between here and Reno. Most all the wild, most of the deer population was up north. (Unintelligible) years ago, we’ve seen as many as seven hundred head of deer in one bunch. But they were out of season when we see ‘em migrate. I’ve seen three or four hundred head lots of times. There was—used to be quite a lot of wild horses. There’s still some herd. About three years ago, we were hunting in Elko county and there was—we’d seen several wild horses, six, eight, ten, in a bunch. One—thirteen I think was the biggest herd of wild horses up there that year. They’re beautiful with their long manes and long tails running through the mountains. Seems like there used to be so many ducks, geese, then I’d go there, and go hunting. It was so easy to get your deer in the early days here. In those days, we were allowed two deer a year, then they cut it to one. Now it’s hard to get one. Deer hunting is hard work, so I don’t go, haven’t been in three years. Went elk hunting in Montana, and that is hard work. As the town of Las Vegas grew, did the animals—? Disappear. Totally leave the valley? Or did they go up to the mountains? Well, I think they just get out. I just think they move out. (Unintelligible) the population. There’s still some around, but they’re just scarce and there’s not as many and they’re hard to find, ‘cause they’re high. They’re getting away from the population. I know there’s one animal—the bighorn sheep are still fairly abundant down in this valley. Yes. Well, I’ve taken Tom down on the river and I take some pictures of below Willow Beach. There was oh, fifteen, twenty head of sheep right down at the water line. Feeding and drinking, and they were, most of ‘em, were on the Arizona side, but up and down the river there, there UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 21 must have been thirty, forty head of bighorn sheep. (Unintelligible) down the—below Boulder City, in the mountains there on the weekends and see ‘em up in hills. Hard to see ‘em, we’d get through (unintelligible) so near the color of the rocks, but at certain times of year, along the river, you can see a lot of ‘em. Is the bighorn sheep a flatlands animal or is it more of a mountain animal? No. No. No. Flatland is the antelope. He likes the low, rolling hill, where he can really get out and run. But—. Have there been antelopes in Southern Nevada? No. I never did see. Only antelopes I’ve seen around Nevada was in Washoe County, north of Pyramid Lake. Between Pyramid Lake and Gurlach. In that stretch. Then there’s quite a few in Elko County. There’s small herds. I’ve seen a dozen or so in the bunch. When the hotels were—when there weren’t so many hotels, I suppose it wasn’t as big a tourist attraction as it is now. Oh, no. No. No question. There’s no—yes. But still, even then it seemed like a lot of people would come up from California, Southern California, up here, and then when the El Rancho Vegas was built, that started ‘em. That was a real fine hotel for those days. Was it air conditioned or? Yes. Yes. They had cooling towers. It was a—but it was air conditioned. It was a beautiful hotel. It was more—they had little cottages. A lot of them, that you—a lot of movie stars and wealthy people come here. They had good entertainment at that El Rancho Vegas. And the Frontier was built, called the Last Frontier. And that seemed to just—that seemed to snowball from then. They just—people began to come in and the town built so fast. Of course, nothing like the sixties and seventies, of course. But it was still big for those days. UNLV University Libraries Joseph C. Mattingly 22 Was the emphasis more on gambling or was it on the shows that you could see? The shows and gambling. Of course, the gambling is what they wanted ‘em in here for, but they had pretty good shows, and food was real cheap for then. It seemed like the food was just real cheap for what you got then, even in those days. Has the weather stayed the same pretty much or—? Oh, I can see very little difference. It seems to me like in the forties. It seems like it was hotter to me. Seemed like it would be more days hot. Now, seems like we only get maybe a hundred days of real hot weather a year, but it’s (unintelligible). The time when people had the coolers on down here and last February, March, in the forties (unintelligible). Of course, those were swamp coolers. But—and it stayed hot for a long time. But it don’t seem to me like it did that in years, as many hot days a year as we used to. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it is what it see