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Interview with Melva Jean (Davis) O'Neill, July 2, 2004


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Narrator affiliation: Family Member; Nevada Test Site Historical Foundation

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O'Neill, Melva Jean. Interview, 2004 July 02. MS-00818. [Transcript]. Oral History Research Center, Special Collections and Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.


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Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with Melva O’Neill July 2, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada Interview Conducted By Yonna Polehn © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Melva O’Neill July 2, 2004 Conducted by Yonna Polehn Table of Contents Introduction: birth Carlsbad, NM ( 1951), family history, childhood, education, employment, marriage to Layton O’Neill ( 1979) 1 Layton O’Neill: involvement in DOE cleanup, Carlsbad, NM ( Gnome, 1961) and Johnston Atoll 2 Move to Las Vegas, NV; talks about life as the spouse of DOE employee 3 Layton O’Neill: work on Johnston Atoll, reactor accident and exposure in Idaho 5 Details family life: spouse as a workaholic and traveling in job 6 Talks about education on radiation issues and spouse’s job; community involvement: Boy Scouts, church duties, women’s circle 8 Family responsibilities: caring for ill stepdaughter, raising younger daughter 10 Layton O’Neill: retirement from DOE ( 1994), memories of stories told throughout career, adjustments in home life after retirement 15 Memories of family vacations while Layton O’Neill was still working for DOE 19 Volunteer involvement with the Nevada Test Site Historical Foundation and the Atomic Testing Museum ( beginning ca. 1999) and changes in personal relationship 20 Remembers family tours to the NTS during Layton O’Neill’s career 25 Family relationships during Layton O’Neill’s career 26 Conclusion: stories of life with Layton O’Neill as an adventure, experiences of helping people in need, grandchildren, and volunteering 28 UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Melva O’Neill July 2, 2004 in Las Vegas, NV Conducted by Yonna Polehn [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disk 1. Yonna Polehn: All right, if you can go ahead and start by telling me your name. Melva O’Neill: My name is Melva O’Neill. And your date of birth. Is October 21, 1951. And your place of birth? Carlsbad, New Mexico. And where did you grow up? I grew up in Carlsbad, New Mexico. Can you tell me a little about your family history? Of course, my mother and father met in central New Mexico, and married there. They were farmers, and actually my father was farming in the field when they tested Trinity, and he said that it lit up the sky there. But anyway, they married and moved to Carlsbad. They had a drought. And my father didn’t complete high school, so had mediocre jobs. And I grew up in a small home, small house, with five children. I was the next to the oldest. Did you want to go ahead and tell me a little bit about your work history? My work history? Let’s see. I graduated high school, and I worked as a waitress for many years. And then I took a job as a desk clerk in a motel in 1978 and ’ 79, and it was there that I met UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 Layton O’Neill. And we married, and I quit that job, and I haven’t worked since— well, I’ve worked at home since then. I have a daughter from a previous marriage. And what’s her name and age? Her name is Amy Karttunen [ 00: 01: 50] and at this time she’s twenty- eight years old. Would you go ahead and tell me a little bit of how you and Mr. O’Neill met. I was a desk clerk at a motel in Carlsbad, New Mexico. He was down there on the DOE Gnome Project, to clean up after that test. They were burying everything and cleaning it up. And he was staying at the motel where I was working. And it was a cleanup for the project? The Project Gnome, yes. And what year did you guys get married? I met him in July of ’ 79 and we got married in December of ’ 79, because he went back home and we had a long distance telephone relationship. You know, that gets expensive after a while [ laughter] so I quit my job and left Carlsbad and moved to Las Vegas. You said that you met him while he was working on the Gnome Project. Could you tell me a little bit how you found out, specifically, how you guys—? Well, the people from Department of Energy [ DOE] were staying at the motel that I was working at, and they would come in shifts, work for about three or four weeks, and then leave. So you knew who the person was coming in, and you knew that they were with DOE, and you also knew already that that’s what they were working with the Gnome Project. And so whenever he checked in, I already knew who he was and where he was from. So you’re already aware of his career? Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 Did you guys, when you first met, did you discuss what he did? Well, Layton was one of these, he was single and he would just come and sit down at the desk and chat for a while— for a long time— and talk about what he was doing, and about life. And how did you feel when you were having all these scientists come in and also knowing what he did? What were your feelings towards the project? I had no worries about the project. I really knew nothing about it at that time. I was just beginning to learn. Now, after you guys got married, what was he continuing to do with the AEC [ Atomic Energy Commission]? Well, he had finished the Gnome Project and he was still involved with the cleanup at Johnston Atoll. They were taking turns going out there, so for a month at a time, he would be gone. He’d go to Johnston Atoll and do his job there and then come home. So during your marriage, there would be period that he would leave? Yes, for a month or so. And what exactly were you doing during this time period? Well, I would maintain the house and the yard and pay the bills and you know. Just keep up with the life crises that would happen or whatever. But he would call weekly and we [ 00: 05: 00] would just talk about what was happening at home, and he’d tell me about what was happening where he was working. So how did you feel with him being away? What would it take to manage the household? Well, whenever I first moved to Las Vegas from Carlsbad, I had to get over my fear— at that time, I thought it was a big city. It’s much bigger now than it was then, but at that time I thought Las Vegas was a big city. So I had to get over my fear of getting out on the streets and learning UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 the city. I was aware before we ever got married that he would be gone for increments of time, so I was open to that and I made plans accordingly. So how soon after you were married did you have to move to Las Vegas? Well, I moved to Las Vegas and then we got married; so I had left Carlsbad and came up here and got married. And what was the reason why you left Carlsbad? Well, because I decided I was going to— Layton and I were going to get married, and the long distance relationship wasn’t working. So I made the commitment and left my family and everyone in Carlsbad and moved to Las Vegas. And then what were your feelings the first time having to— I mean with it being a big city, leaving your family behind? Well, you know, to me, my life has always been an adventure, so to me, I was going on an adventure. I looked forward to that. So how soon after you moved to Las Vegas did the two of you get married? It was probably about three weeks between our moving here and getting married. And how soon after the two of you were married was the first time that he had to leave for a long period? I’m trying to think of how long that was. It was probably about year after we got married before his turn came around again for him to be gone. And how old was your daughter at the time? She was four. So was that a little bit harder, having a daughter, a new city, when he left? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 Well, since we were there for about a year, I had become adjusted to the city and to our part of town. And Layton made sure I got acquainted with his friends and people, so I knew people, so I wasn’t just alone. Now, his friends, did they work for the DOE also? Some did, and some were involved with the church that we attend Westminster Presbyterian Church. So when he was gone how did you feel when he would leave and you would only have limited contact with him? Well, I’ve always been satisfied. I mean I’m not a clingy kind of person. I’ve always felt as long as I know where he is and how to get a hold of him if I need to, then I’m satisfied with him being gone. Now, would he tell you exactly where he was going when he would leave? Yes, I would know where he was going, because at that time he was doing cleanup. He wasn’t involved in the testing side, so it wasn’t a real big secret what he was doing. And what type of cleanup was it, specifically? Like at the Johnston Atoll, they did some rocket tests that went awry and they blew up the rockets on the pad, which scattered plutonium and/ or uranium all over the ground. So they were cleaning up the ground and buildings. Well, were you ever worried about the task that he was doing? No. Really? No. Because see, whenever I met him and married him, he’d already been involved in this career for a good ten, almost fifteen years. And he tells stories of when he was up in Idaho, when he UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 was married to his first wife, and they had a reactor up there and there was a reactor accident, and he had to enter in at that. He told about the high radioactivity and then coming back out, you know. So he’s had exposure before I ever met him. And he was comfortable with his field and he was comfortable with what he was doing. So I sort of take [ 00: 10: 00] my lead from that. If he’s comfortable with it and not worried, why should I be worried? So I wasn’t worried. OK. Now when he would leave for those long periods, were you going back to your family? Were you staying in Las Vegas? No, I stayed in Las Vegas and just carried on our life as if he were still there. You know, we have our daily routine and we had church on Sunday. What was an average while he was away? While he was away? Of course, I had the young daughter, so it was getting up, making breakfast, or having breakfast, and taking care of my daughter. Sometimes I would go visit friends, and that was about it. If I had to do shopping, if I needed to do shopping. Paying bills, if it’s that time of the month. We were getting paid twice a month, so whenever the paycheck would come in— because our check was on automatic deposit, so you’d know whenever it would come in, so you pay your bills. And the car breaks down, then you have to take it to the shop. So when he was leaving, were you finding yourself doing a lot of the tasks that he would do otherwise? Right. Right. But since our marriage, my main responsibility was to keep the house going and keep the car going and keep everything going because he was a workaholic. Even whenever he was in town, he would leave for work 7: 30, eight o’clock in the morning, and he would not get home till 7: 30, eight o’clock at night. So my days were pretty well busy with supporting him, UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 because he didn’t have to come home and take care of business. So I just kept everything going while he was working. And what were your feelings about him being a workaholic? Leaving and coming back so late? Well, I’ve always felt like, you know, it’s what made him happy. And since I was a stay- at- home wife and mother, I felt like he was supporting us, so I’ve always done my best to support whatever he did. And how many cleanups did he do? Well, that was probably the last. Johnston Atoll was the last one that he was involved in. He was involved in others before I met him. Enewetak and then, of course, Gnome, and then also up in Colorado. He was there for cleanup at a couple of shots there. But those were before I met him. And then how many times during your marriage was he having to leave you and your daughter? For several years, they were still doing underground tests out at the Nevada Test Site, and they’d take turns, in his office, going out and covering the shots, and sometimes it would be his turn. Most of those were like overnight outings. So after he was finished with the Johnston Atoll project, mostly, it was just overnight. And sometimes they went to Washington, D. C. for meetings for a week or two. What were you doing during that time period when he would leave for more than—? I would just maintain the house. I would clean the house, buy the groceries, you know. Mow the lawn. I just was a stay- home housewife. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s right. You know, it’s like any other kind of job. You have tasks that you do every day, but you don’t really think about. Now, did the two of you have children? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 No. He had had five children in previous marriages and I had one, and I figured six was enough between us, so we did not have any children between us. When he would come back, were you curious as to what he did? Did you ask a lot of questions? Well, Layton, he’s always taken the time to educate me about radiation, and he’s always taken the time to educate me about what his job was. So I always had a pretty good idea of what he was doing, even if I didn’t know exactly what he was doing. So did you guys, especially after a certain test, did you just sit down and ask a lot of questions? Really, I did not. I would know that there was a test, like when he was out at the test site for a shot. Most times they were announced shots, and he would call me that morning [ 00: 15: 00] right after the shot and he would say, OK, you should feel the shock wave anytime now, and I would feel the shock wave. And the rest of them probably didn’t feel it because they didn’t know it was there. But if you had notice that it was coming, then you would be able to feel it. How did you feel? Did you feel a certain connection, just kind of like when he would call you and tell you about—? Well, it makes you feel more involved. It makes you feel a part of what he does. And how did that make you feel? I mean did you feel like you were just really a major part of this test? Yeah. Right. Well, you feel like that you’re involved or that you’re included. Did you do any volunteering or anything during these periods? At that time, let’s see, he was also very involved in Boy Scouts, and so that was another thing I spent a lot of time with, was doing whatever he needed to have done so he could go on the outing or whatever they were going to be doing. So I would support that. And then I was very involved in our church. Sunday school teacher. I was an elder on the session, and over these years I’ve UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 served as a delegate for presbytery meetings, and I served as chair of committee for presbytery. So I’ve been really involved in our church life. Really? And how long have you been doing these activities? For about twenty- two years. A couple of years after we got married, I started getting involved in these things. So while he was away, you still kind of continued that routine of church every Sunday? Right. We had church every Sunday, and meetings once or twice a week. Oh, what type of meetings? Oh, committee meetings. Once a month, we had women’s circle meetings. And so you had other things going on. Women’s circle? Now, what was that? That’s where a couple of women of the church have a Bible study. And then we do fundraisers and things like that, you know. You bake cookies. At that time, you could still easily park in front of Smith’s or whatever and sell cookies. You can’t do that very well anymore, but at that time, you could have fundraisers. Now, the church committee, were they aware of what your husband was doing? Well, they were aware that he worked— actually in our church, we had about one, two, three, four, at least five or six people who were employees out at the Nevada Test Site, or employees of the government. So our church was very— we were very well aware, where these people worked. So did you feel that— was there ever a time when you just needed to kind of stop and maybe talk to someone, while your husband was away or—? Well, no, probably not. I never really had any major crises. I forgot to say that Layton had a daughter who was living here for about the first ten years of our marriage, and she suffered from UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 mental illness. Well, at first she was diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, and then another time she was diagnosed as manic- depressive. Finally, after years, they diagnosed her as schizo affective, which is like in the middle. They had medications for these two other guys, but they don’t really have medication for her condition. And she could keep you quite occupied with crises. Whenever she’d get off her medicine, she did a lot of things. At one time, she worked for the state out at the Spring Mountain State Park, and she was coming back from there, and she’s not doing well, and she parks her car on the side of the road and leaves the door wide open and the music going, and she just wanders off into the desert. And so we had to go find her. She’d go off and she’d decide that her dad was Satan and she’d run away from him. And she would break things. One time, she was in our home, and my husband has a few guns, and she was getting his guns out, so I went and took them away from her. But she was more my worry than Layton’s job ever was. Really? So were there times, for example, when he was away or you knew he was going to be away, that things happened? [ 00: 20: 00] Right, and what you had to learn to do was to call the police if you couldn’t get her to go in to see the psychiatrist or the doctor or counselor. So you just had to call the police whenever she was not doing well. Now, was there more than one time while he was away—? While he was away. It was such an ongoing thing because I can’t recall for sure whether he was away or not. Most of the times, I think he was in town. Sometimes he wasn’t. But you just had to take it on as a responsibility, to take care, to see that she got help. Were there ever times when he was away that you’re saying, OK, you kind of were prepared for what might happen? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 Right, you had to keep yourself prepared because whenever you’re around someone who suffers from mental illness very much, if you know them very well, by just being around them you can tell when they’re not doing well. You know, they don’t tune in. They don’t pay you much attention. They get involved in their conversation with whoever is in their head and they just drift away. And that’s usually a telltale sign. If you’re not paying close attention to them, then, you know— but if you’re paying close attention, you can tell if they’re fixing to need help. And the way the government or the society is set up nowadays, used to, you know, they would put people like her in a hospital and that’s where they stayed. But they passed a law, and I forget what kind of law it was, but anyway, they don’t keep them in the hospital anymore whenever they’ve been stable for any short amount of time. And so you have to, whenever— commitment for her was like every six months. There was a legal thing, that you had to wait for her to get so ill that she couldn’t control herself around any authorities, which is a terrible thing for people who are sitting to watch to have to wait until they’re so ill. And then she would go through court and then she would get committed for six months. And for those six months, then, you could just call and they would put her back in the hospital or get her back in the hospital easily. But once the six- month commitment was expired, then you had to wait again until she was so bad, you know, to get her re- committed for another six months. Because even though they’re quote, unquote, committed for six months, they don’t keep you in the hospital for those six months. If they think you’re stable enough, they���ll release you back out onto the street. And then what were your feelings about your stepdaughter? Were there ever times you had to deal with the court? And then having a little girl, also, to deal with? Yes, that was pretty hard because Amy, which is my daughter, had to learn and deal with this crazy person who is sometimes staying in our house. And so I had a hard time with that UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 sometimes. But I’ve always been one who just kind of rolls with the punches as best as possible. I just pick up and do what I have to do when I have to do it. Was there ever a time when your husband was away that your stepdaughter stayed with you? Let’s see. I’m trying to think. I can’t recall exactly if he was out of town when she was living with us, but I think he was for short times, but not for any real length of time. And then she was living in her own apartment after a while. I learned that your sanity is much better off whenever they’re living not in the same house with you, because it’s just really hard on you. Well, could you kind of describe when you say it was hard? I mean what exactly were you feeling? Well, when you have to deal with someone who suffers from mental illness, it quite pulls in your own kind of sanity, you know, your own thinking, because mental illness is like transient. You can’t feel it; it’s not like looking at a broken arm. And people who have mental illness play mind games. They use words and they— it’s really hard. It’s really hard on your own emotional stability, whenever you’re dealing with someone who is chronically mentally ill. [ 00: 25: 00] What do you mean, emotional stability? I mean for you personally. Well, like when she’s in the hospital. When she’s in the hospital, when she would be behind locked doors, my biggest fear when I’d go to visit her is that they don’t mix me up with her and the rest of those guys. And they never had a problem with that. But you know, it’s just— I don’t know how to describe it. It’s just very hard on you whenever you are around someone who’s like that on a regular basis. Did you find it maybe just a little bit harder when your husband was gone rather than him being there with you? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 Well, since he worked all day, there were a few times that I had to call him home, needed to call him home. But most times, I had the responsibility of taking care of whatever the problem was. And when you say responsibility, could you give me examples? Well, to go and visit her on a daily or weekly basis and see how she’s doing. Take her to pay bills, if she needed to pay bills. If she’s not doing very well, to take her to the counselor. You know, to do those things. To take care of her. Did you ever feel that it was especially difficult because it was your stepdaughter and then you had your daughter having to come with you? Well, she was probably about five; she’d started school, so a lot of times she was in school when we had to take care of those things. But my daughter was aware of Marilyn’s condition, so she was able to deal with it also. And we would talk about it. If she had a problem, we would talk about her problem, you know, what was going on. It wasn’t a secret. Was there ever a time while he was gone that you would wish he was there or just kind of want[ ed] him home to take care of the situation? I probably fleetingly would think that, but you know it’s impossible. Like when he was at Johnston Atoll, when he was that far away, you can’t have him there. So you may fleetingly think that, but you have to continue. You just have to take control. And I’ve learned to be a controlling kind of person. I like to be in control. What do you mean? I like to be in charge. I like to say, OK, today is the schedule and this is what we’re going to do. Who do you feel that’s directed at, your experiences with your stepdaughter and your husband being away? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Because I probably could’ve easily been the other and let him be in control. And then as my husband has gotten older, his memory’s gotten worse. And so I’m sort of the one that’s picked up the reins and knows what’s going on, and have to keep track of him and what’s going on with him. What do you mean? Well, like his weekly schedule, to remind him of what has to be done, and just to keep him on his own schedule as to what he wants to do. Because he doesn’t remember sometimes that he has things scheduled. Was there ever a time that you felt maybe it was a strain on your relationship, not just with him leaving and his work schedule, but also the situation with your stepdaughter? I don’t think so. I don’t think so, because those are all things that I knew was going to be a part of our relationship before we ever got married. I knew he had the mentally ill daughter. I knew he had to go out of town. So I accepted those as part of the deal in our relationship. Like a package? Yeah, that’s part of the package. And if you know what you’re buying when you bought it, then you accept them as the— From the time you met, how long was your stepdaughter in Las Vegas? Well, when we first married, she was back East visiting. Probably about six months into our marriage she came back to Las Vegas. And she lived here for about ten years. [ 00: 30: 00] And during that time, was your husband still working for the DOE? Yes. Yes. OK, so it became a part of what was going on? That’s right. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 Now, does your husband still work for the DOE? No, he’s retired. He retired in 1994. Has he ever sat down with you and just told you stories, you know, of his experience, what he saw? Yeah, he’s told a lot of stories. Right. I’ve heard probably most of them, most of his stories about— and he’s told me stories, you know, throughout our marriage, of the things that he’s done and been involved in. And how did you feel? I mean did you just kind of enjoy sitting down and listening? Yeah, I’ve always found them quite interesting. Yes. And sometimes fun, you know, because a lot of times the stories have a little side story to them. Oh, for example? Oh, for example. Let me try to think about it. Whenever he was going to Colorado, he said he would take the graveyard shift because they were cleaning up there but he loved to go skiing, so he would work graveyard and get off and then he would go take his skis and he would go. There was a mountain, Powderhorn, close by, but he would go skiing during the days and then when his tour of duty was over he would come back home. And then also he met a man at Amchitka who was like a gold miner, you know, panning for gold, and he tells the story of this person who he met and this guy showed him a lot of pictures that had all kinds of gold. He said that if ever in his life he was going to get gold fever, it was when he was up there. But he didn’t. But he came home with a couple flakes of gold that he got from this character, plus a colored picture of a shining gold nugget on a blue rug. And things like that. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 And how did you feel, I mean when he would tell you these stories and then you knew during that time period you were dealing with the stepdaughter and the crises that would pop up on occasion? OK, like the Enewetak one was before I met him, was a story, but I don’t associate those things together. They’re separate. What do you mean? Well, I mean a story of something in the past is a story, whereas a crisis which is happening now is not the same. Oh, what I also meant was like when he was off and he was in other cities and out of the country during a crisis that would come up with your stepdaughter, when he would come back, did you ever feel like the responsibility—? No, I’ve always just accepted the responsibility. I’ve never been jealous of his travels. I don���t know if that’s what you were looking for, but I’ve never been jealous of his travels and seeing things. Because like when he would go to Washington, D. C. to meetings, his first wife was from Maryland, and so when she left him she took the children back East. So whenever he would go back East, he still had other children back there and he would take an extra week off or something and see his children. And I’ve never been jealous of those things. I think those are important, for him and for his family. Could you tell me about after he retired? You know, you volunteer here at the Atomic Testing Museum— OK, this wasn’t going on yet at that time. Oh, OK, when did that start? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 17 That started in ’ 98, I believe. So when he first retired, because he was a workaholic and because he spent a lot of time away from the house, we had major adjustments. What do you mean? He was used to making suggestions, because in his job, in his work, and people taking action on [ 00: 35: 00] it. So when he retired and he was home every day, he was making suggestions about how I ran the house. And we had a lot of conflict over that. But he soon realized, and I guess we realized also, that that wasn’t going to work. So he got himself involved heavier in scouting at that time, and also church work. And friends would know he was free and call him up. So he started spending more time away from the house, doing volunteer things himself. So it was a major adjustment for both of us when he retired, because he was gone most of the day for all those years. We were married in ’ 79 and he retired in ’ 94, so all those years I was used to having my own domain at home. And then he [ became] a part of that domain. This is interesting. So after ’ 94, you are the household manager, dealing with a lot of crises. Right. I was in charge at home. So then after he retired— maybe you could kind of give me a couple of examples, particularly like the conflicts and the adjustment. How did you react then? Well, we had a lot of arguments. I think that was probably our crisis in our marriage, was when he retired. Because it was really hard at that time to deal with him at home and under foot all the time, and I’m afraid I don’t do things his way. We had to make adjustments, and as part of the adjustments, he found a course going on here at UNLV [ University of Nevada, Las Vegas] that he wanted to get involved in. So he got hired on part- time with Tony [ Anthony] Hechenova, and he found himself another little job. So he sta