Clayton Anderson (Elko County School District) oral history interview conducted by Magdalena Martinez and Elia Del Carmen Solano-Patricio: transcript

An Interview with Clayton Anderson
Perspectives from the COVID-19 Pandemic: Leadership and Learning in Nevada
Produced by:
The University of Nevada Las Vegas
The Lincy Institute
2024
Principal Researchers:
Magdalena Martinez, Ph.D. and Kelliann Beavers, Ph.D.
The following interview was a part of the “Perspectives from the COVID-19 Pandemic:
Leadership and Learning in Nevada” research project. The recorded interview and transcript
were made possible through the generosity of The Lincy Institute at the University of Nevada,
Las Vegas. The goal of the project was to understand and document how Nevada organizations
and leaders responded to the myriad challenges that the pandemic engendered. The interviewees
thank The Lincy Institute and their supporters for the opportunity to reflect on their roles
throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. The researchers also acknowledge the following
individuals who contributed to the conceptualization, data collection, and analysis of the project:
Dr. John Hudak, Dr. Makada Henry-Nickie, Elia Del Carmen Solano-Patricio, Taylor Cummings,
Peter Grema, Kristian Thymianos, Saha Salahi, Madison Frazee, and Katie Lim.
Each interviewee had the opportunity to review their transcript. All measures have been taken to
preserve the style and language of the interviewee. This interview features Clayton Anderson,
Superintendent of Elko County School District, and was conducted on 10/6/22 by Magdalena
Martinez and Elia Del Carmen Solano-Patricio. This interview covers topics including
reflections on leadership, organizational challenges, and opportunities for collaboration.
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Interview with Clayton Anderson
Date: 10-06-2022
SPEAKERS: Magdalena Martinez, Clayton Anderson, Carmen Solano-Patricio
Magdalena Martinez [00:01]
All right. So we are here today, October the 6th, on Thursday, with Clayton Anderson, the
Superintendent of the Elko School District. And so, I will just, once again, confirm that he gives
consent to participate and that it is okay to record the conversation.
Clayton Anderson [00:21]
Yep, you have my permission.
Magdalena Martinez [00:23]
Thank you. And that we have your permission also to use your name and attribute any quotes
that you share with us today, after you okay the transcript.
Clayton Anderson [00:33]
Yes.
Magdalena Martinez [00:34]
Thank you so much.
Clayton Anderson [00:35]
Mm-hmm.
Magdalena Martinez [00:36]
So, we'll jump right into it. If you can, Mr. Anderson, talk to us – describe your role throughout
the pandemic, and the role of Elko School District as a whole.
Clayton Anderson [00:46]
Sure. So I actually am pretty new to Elko County, relatively, anyway, compared to most of my
colleagues there. I moved to Elko County about six or seven months before the pandemic
happened – or began, I should say. And I went there as a principal of a combined school, so in
the town of Wells, Nevada, which runs right along I-80, about an hour or so outside of the Utah
border. So real northeast Nevada. And it's about 340-ish kids at that school combined, K through
12. There's an elementary building and a secondary building.
And so that was my first experience as a principal. I moved from Texas, where I was an
administrator at rather large schools, much like what Clark County has here. I was in a similar
kind of dynamic and demographic district at Clark County. So big change in both, you know,
living situation and school experiences, and that was kind of what I was looking for. I was
looking to diversify a little bit and have a different type of experience.
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So, anyway, got there. Kind of a brand-new principal, learning how to be a principal. And then
we were hit with something that, whether you were a new principal, or you had been a principal
for 25 years, nobody knew how to handle a pandemic, right? So my experience was, how do I,
not only as a new leader but as a leader, manage a situation that has completely shut down our
schools? My only relevant experience – so that would have been the two times when I lived in
Houston, and we experienced hurricanes.
Magdalena Martinez [02:33]
Mmm.
Clayton Anderson [02:34]
And we were out of school for about a week to two weeks each of those times. But those were
very different situations, right? Like we were – school was closed, but there was still lots of work
that we needed to do, and ways we could help each other, and do humanitarian aid, and serve,
and things like that. And so I had that kind of experience. So having school shut down wasn't a
total anomaly. But the way it got shut down, how long it was shut down for, and the types of
responsibilities I was asked to engage in were very different.
So that was my role for, I guess – if we're going back in time, March of '20. That was the end of
my first year as a principal. So for that portion of that semester, I was helping lead through – and
that time was looking a lot like – not only was school shut down, but we weren't doing anything
for a while. It was like, that was the two weeks to (laughs) flatten the curve thing that we all
knew was not going to be two weeks.
And then there was the challenge of well, how do we – because at that point, that's all it was.
School's closed and school's closed. And then it was okay, well, we can't just do nothing for the
next two months. We have to do something. So how do we move all of our in-person instruction
to digital instruction?
So figuring out the dynamic – thankfully, at that point, that school, we had just earlier that year,
got to a point where we were already a 1:1 school – our whole district wasn't, but we were,
through grants and various things through the years preceding me. And then, while I was there,
we were already 1:1, so we started working on a plan on how to distribute those devices to
students. Talking with teachers on how to digitize and utilize the various resources we had
available. So at that point, not everybody was using Google Classroom. Some secondary teachers
were using Canvas. There was a hodgepodge of who was using what, and how do we make this
work. We all had access to Google Meet. So kind of strategizing how we would deliver
instruction. A very difficult task, maybe more so than how to go to instruction virtually was, how
to account for students, and take attendance, and where's the accountability piece with that? How
do we hold those students accountable? Educators accountable? Especially, you know, in light of
what people were going through at the same time, like what sort of crises existed. The well-being
of our students, and their families, and our staff. There were all sorts of factors to consider. So
the idea was, just get through the rest of this year, right? And then we can hit June, and maybe it
will all be gone when we come back. Which, again, was not optimistic.
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The next year was even harder because I think everybody had falsely led themselves to believe
there was a chance it would be gone. And so then we had to start the year out full virtual. And so,
throughout that summer, kind of strategizing, how can we take the things we've learned how to
do and be ready for whatever happens, right?
Magdalena Martinez [06:03]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [06:04]
Because we didn't know what was going to happen. We thought we were making a plan as if we
were going to be opening in August. And the closer we got, the more we realized that's not
happening. So we ended up petitioning to get some extra professional development days – a
couple of weeks to do that, where our teachers could be intensely trained on how to be digital
learning providers.
Magdalena Martinez [06:29]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [06:31]
And we did that for about a quarter. And then we – my school, anyway, created a plan for how to
transition from full virtual to a hybrid model. And we did that, I want to say, it was in November
of that same year. So we returned to some in-person before – lots of people did. We weren't the
first but before a lot of people. And then I believe we carried through until the end of the
semester, and at end of the semester, we went full in-person at my school.
And this is all from a principal's perspective, right? I'm thinking back to that role. And Elko
County is very unique in its construct. It's 17,000 square miles. Within Elko County, we have
three-way schools, like Elko High School and Spring Creek High School, which are decently
sized. But then we also have the combined school that I worked at, and then there are combined
schools smaller than the one I was in. There's a two-way, and there are schools on the borders of
Utah and Idaho. And all of our communities are very distinct and unique. We have seven distinct
communities in Elko County, and they are hours apart from each other.
And so there was a lot of, kind of, what works for that school and for that community. There
wasn't like a – "Okay. All of Elko County is going to do this at this time." It was very much like,
"Hey, here's what we're required to do. How does that work within your community, and your
facilities, and what you have available to you?" So we determined at that time, in November, we
could go to hybrid. Determined in January we could go to full in-person. And then we stayed full
in-person after that point.
Magdalena Martinez [08:26]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [08:28]
Kind of the biggest challenge, I think, all through that time was not the logistics necessarily.
There's a lot of smart people, that we're all degreed educators (laughs) who are good
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problem-solvers. It was just the rate at which the data changed – made it so complex to not only
come up with solutions but to feel confident in giving those solutions. I found myself frequently
saying such qualifying phrases: "As of today, this is what's happening," or "As far as I know," or
"The newest information is – right? I had to preface everything with that because people would
hold you to what you said, and not understand the predicament that we were in, where we are
bound to a bunch of different entities, right? The governor mandates this – much as certain
people wanted to say, it's not a law, like the legal opinion (laughs). And the rules of the state
basically dictate, and the state of emergency it is. It carries the full weight of law.
Magdalena Martinez [09:46]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [09:47]
And so, whether you agreed or not with what was happening because of – by virtue of being
licensed by the State of Nevada – you have to do what is required, right? And so that created a
lot of conflict, I think, with people here we are, trying to make changes, make adjustments,
trying to meet peoples' needs. And all the while – sometimes, the changes would happen almost
as fast as you would figure out "Okay. So, a new mandate comes out, right? And here we are,
and this is what we're going to do. We've got it all planned out." Because you just don't make
those decisions in a vacuum. "I've got to get my leadership team together at my campus, and we
have to talk about that." Then I have to pull parents and other entities and say, "Hey, are you able
to support this in this way?"
Magdalena Martinez [10:37]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [10:38]
And so, by the time you speak to all those stakeholders and get a plan together, maybe the
information has already changed. Or maybe, you just start to do something, and now the
information changes, and back to the drawing board. And sometimes you could just modify your
current plan. But other times, it requires you to just do totally something different.
And so, I think one of the hardest things for people to deal with is a constant state of change. I
mean, we're all designed to be able to handle change, right?
Magdalena Martinez [11:13]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [11:18]
But to have to do it so constantly, when there's that state of perpetual insecurity and that state of
the unknown, it's not mentally healthy. Part of the reason it's so good to have the kids in school is
because you can establish a routine with kids. They know what to expect. You know that at "X"
time, you're going to go see that teacher, and you’re going to do this content area, and after that,
it's going to be lunch, right? They know what their day's going to be. There's no instability or
insecurity. And so I think – I'm not a psychologist, and I'm not any sort of mental health expert.
But I'm certain that kind of the worst effect of the pandemic was it just – nobody had – there was
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no surety of what was happening and what you were doing. And for a lot of people, that's
uncomfortable and causes anxiety and stress. And some people were able to deal with that very
well, and not a huge problem, and some people did not deal with that very well. And not having
control is a huge trigger for a lot of people – children, adults, anyone. And so, that was kind of
my experience as a principal in going through that. I talk a lot, so I'm sorry. Feel free to just be
like, "I feel like we've got enough on that one."
So then transitioning. During the pandemic – because you’re going to get the whole story here –
during the pandemic, this would have been like March of the following year, I guess. So I'm
finishing up my second year as a principal, so this would have been in '21. So spring of '21, I was
offered a position after finishing up my second year as a principal, to be Director of School
Improvement at the district offices. They were starting to think toward when the pandemic's over,
there's going to be a lot of (laughs) mitigating, and cleaning up, and efforts that need to be made
to get us – not back to where we were before, but to try to start to pick up the pieces.
And so, I accepted that responsibility and finished out the school year. About a week prior to
arriving at the central office, our superintendent, who hired me to do that, suddenly resigned.
Magdalena Martinez [14:09]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [14:11]
Our board meetings were much like some of the ones you would see on the news and hear about.
And I know Clark County had some wild ones. I know that we weren't on an island, right? That
was happening to a lot of people, and ours were among those, where people were coming in
droves and being awful and saying horrible things. And so some of that led to her just deciding
it's not what she signed up for. And I haven't had the chance to speak to her about it since she
left. I gave her her privacy.
So that left us in a situation where we had no superintendent. Our deputy superintendent at the
time stepped in. But part of the problem we had was not only the public being awful, but we had
board members who fed into that. And so we were in a situation where board members were
behaving similarly to some of the public, and board members were operating outside of their
bounds. And so our deputy superintendent stepped down from the interim role. He kept his
previous role. But then we were really without any superintendent, and in the midst of all of
those things happening, five out of our seven board members resigned within a couple of days of
each other.
So there we are, a district of 10,000 students, with no superintendent, and with two board
members, and nothing good is happening. And so those remaining two board members ended up
going through a process of appointment for four new board members, just to get through the next
year, until the elections which were coming up in a month. They brought in a former
superintendent, from years before, who was well-liked and respected in the community. He
retired about three years prior. And so, he committed to come in and help kind of stabilize things.
He was there for about four months, and at that point, they were trying to find a new
superintendent. And so that's when – with all six months of my central office experience, in the
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absence of almost any other applicants, I was convinced – "coerced" isn't the right word. (laughs)
But I was convinced to put my name in and try to help lead us out of the disaster.
And I was selected for that, and then my role, through the rest of that year, I was the interim, and
then, by April, I was made official superintendent. I was adapting to those kinds of final
mandates and changes that happened. So that January – about a month later was when the CDC
released the – relaxed it to the point where kids didn't need to wear masks, and adults didn't need
to wear masks. Nobody had to wear masks anymore. They had to, right, if they were not ill,
where social distancing requirements were reduced. So it was like I got to be the "good guy," to
kind of pull back on a lot of the restrictions.
Magdalena Martinez [17:49]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [17:50]
But even when you’re being the good guy, and pulling back stuff, it's still that same sentiment of
we're changing everything all the time, right?
Magdalena Martinez [18:01]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [18:02]
And so there's inconsistencies, whether it's intentional or not. And so, it was tough doing that. It
was nice when we could finally just say – when we get to the point where we could make our
own – "Here's our plan in how we'll deal with stuff when it happens." But no more, "You have to
do this" anymore. Because that's what most people resented and were opposed to was, they don't
want to be told how to be.
Magdalena Martinez [18:26]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [18:28]
A lot of people like their independence and a lot of our rural folks sure do love their freedoms.
And I don't fault them for that, and nothing's free. We have rights but we're also kind of dictated
and we're governed.
Magdalena Martinez [18:50]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [18:52]
Yeah. So now, here I am, full-on superintendent. We're going into – we're into this '22-'23 school
year by about a month or six weeks now, and we have a long road ahead of us. That's the next
impact of the pandemic, for me, is trying to move forward. Because there are some people who
are still stuck in what happened during the pandemic. As much as they didn't want to deal with
all of that stuff then, they're still kind of hanging onto it now, for some reason. And so we're still
battling the people who were disrupting our board meetings. They want to point to the stuff we
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did then, as an indicator of our lack of credibility, or incompetence, or servitude to whatever
entity they think is corrupt, right? Like just whatever narrative they're trying to paint, that still
kind of haunts us. You never know when they're going to show up at a board meeting. I mean
terrorism is a real kind of – it's probably a – that's hyperbole, for sure. But at least, from the way
people think of terrorism – but to a certain extent, it kind of is, right?
Magdalena Martinez [20:09]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [20:10]
They thrive on making you uncomfortable and trying to catch you in "A-has!", and act like
anybody had any idea of what they were doing during that time. And to fault anyone for how
they tried to adapt in an impossible situation is just unfair to everyone. It's hard to guilt anyone
who is in a public position, whether it's a school leader, or a health official, or a county
commissioner, or a mayor, or a college president, or whatever. Like whoever it was that had to
lead during that, in any way – a business owner – like whatever. If you had to lead during that
time, you were never going to make the right decision for everybody. You were always going to
be wrong. And it's just – if you have good mental sanity, and hyper-confidence, and that sort of
thing, I think you made it through okay, but a lot of people did not get through okay. So I felt for
a lot of people. I don’t know how some people survived because it was pretty challenging.
Magdalena Martinez [21:27]
That is really helpful. Thank you so much. This is Magdalena. I'm wondering – I have a quick
follow-up question.
Clayton Anderson [21:33]
Sure.
Magdalena Martinez [21:37]
So your school district went face-to-face as early as November 2020?
Clayton Anderson [21:43]
Yeah. Just some, face-to-face, yes. In fact, I want to say – yeah. No, that would have been the
earliest. We actually had one or two schools that went back full in-person by November of 2020.
A few more that went hybrid, and then our bigger schools all stayed in virtual until January. But
by January – I want to say, by January of 2021 – no – yeah – of 2021. Sorry, I should get all of
my dates – all of our schools, in some former fashion, were doing some face-to-face.
Magdalena Martinez [22:22]
Okay. So this is Magdalena. And my question is, do you find that in your school district, the
learning loss was less than most of the other school districts, particularly like urban school
districts because they were able to be face-to-face? Or do you find that just, because of the stress
and unknowns, students were impacted in terms of learning loss and/or mental health?
Clayton Anderson [22:54]
So from a semantic standpoint, we never called it "learning loss."
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Magdalena Martinez [22:59]
Okay.
Clayton Anderson [23:00]
We may have called it "interrupted learning" or "unfinished learning." But I know what you
mean. I would not say our kids were any better off. I think, going back to school, in person, in
whatever way we did, and whatever way anyone did. I think at the time, we thought, "Hey, we've
got to get them in here for learning." But in retrospect, there were still a lot of interruptions.
Because at that point, we had the – I don't remember if it was 15 days of isolation, or 10, or
whatever, if you were a close contact, even – we had people in and out, and in and out.
Magdalena Martinez [23:46]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [23:47]
And sometimes, four or five different exclusions in a semester type of thing. Kids, teachers;
anyone who thinks that any significant learning is happening during that type of – again,
instability – are kidding themselves.
Magdalena Martinez [24:03]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [24:04]
I think there are multiple reasons we went back as soon as we could. I think probably the biggest
reason was to get kids to a safe environment. Some could argue that, why is it safe if there's an
illness that's being transmitted through people? How is that safe for them?
But that's not the safety I'm talking about. I'm talking about out-of-abusive environments. I'm
talking about where there's food security. I'm talking about where they are monitored during that
time of day. I'm talking about where their social and emotional needs are being met.
And then there's probably a certain element of – hey, for certain leaders, I'm sure there was an
element of "Man, as soon as we can get these kids back, let's do it, so these nut-jobs will just
leave us alone. Whatever we've got to do to get them back – like we love the kids, right? But
there was that knowledge that we won't have to answer those questions anymore. This is stupid.
Why are we doing this? Why are we doing that, right? Let's just get them in there. We'll handle
school, and we'll have the kids there, and then we can – at least, from that perspective, people
won't be criticizing us all the time.
So I think there was a little bit of trying to placate the centers, but I don't believe amazing
learning was happening.
Magdalena Martinez [25:44]
Mm-hmm.
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Clayton Anderson [25:46]
Especially given the fact that by that point, let's say it was one of our bigger schools who didn't
go back until January of that following year. By that point, it had been about 10 months before a
kid had stepped foot in a classroom. And if that's a first-grader – I mean because they didn't have
kindergartners in the classroom, and they don't know how to behave in a school and don't know
the rules, and they don't know anything. They were maybe on their Google Meet if there was a
parent around, or if they were at a boys and girls club, and they were diligent in keeping them on
there, right?
There was just so much training, for lack of a better word, that had to be done with kids. And
that's what teachers would report, "Man, we've been back three weeks, and I'm still just trying to
get – every kid wanted to talk about their experience. They needed to talk about that experience.
They needed to process what happened. Especially, the smaller the kid, the more that – you bring
up any topic that they have any context for, and a kid wants to tell you all about it.
Magdalena Martinez [26:52]
Hmm.
Clayton Anderson [26:54]
If I go home, and I mention that I was – and let's say, hypothetically, I go into a kindergarten
class on Monday, and I say, "I was in Las Vegas this weekend." Every child who has ever been to
Las Vegas, or who has an uncle in Las Vegas, or who has heard of Las Vegas is going to want to
tell you what they know about Las Vegas, right? That's (laughs) not an exaggeration, and that
was amplified over every classroom everywhere.
And so, not only from that natural perspective of a kid – do they want to talk about what they did
– but they needed to, the more difficult, or traumatic, or trying their experience was, because kids
had to talk about it with people.
Magdalena Martinez [27:32]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [27:33]
And so I think, just now – I even kind of look at last year as a bit of a wash. Better because we
were in-person the whole year, with just limited restrictions.
Magdalena Martinez [27:46]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [27:48]
But this year, where we were able to have everyone all the time without the restrictions, with a
normal routine, with some staffing challenges, of course. But we're not going to know, for a
while, what the effects were of the learning, right?
Magdalena Martinez [28:05]
Yeah.
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Clayton Anderson [28:09]
If we want to call it "learning loss." We still don't know what that is. Our scores obviously
plummeted, from the last state assessment prior to the pandemic, to the most recent one that
actually counted. Well, how good is that data, right? The first year we came back hybrid – we're
taking the test, but it doesn't count. I mean, if it doesn't count, one, why are we taking it? And
two, who – teachers know it doesn't count. They've told the kids it doesn't count. People aren't
showing up. If it doesn't count, it doesn't count.
And so, we have this data that's really worthless. We may as well make a guess on how kids did
on the tests and call that your data, right?
Magdalena Martinez [29:01]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [29:02]
It was just – it was worthless data, which the people will reflect on and say, "Oh, my gosh. Look
at the loss that happened." Like I'm not willing to call that "loss," because I don't actually know
what was reflected at that point. And even last year, where it did count, there was still a lot of
this element of "It's okay, just do your best. And we're all going through stuff still."
So, yeah. We'll get a better idea as the years go on. But I think we're a couple or a few years of
assessing before we actually have a pretty good concept of – it will be after the fact, right? By
the time we know, we'll know where we were a couple of years prior, and how are we doing
coming out of that now.
Magdalena Martinez [29:49]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [29:50]
I just think the data is very unreliable right now, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. But
certainly, loss happened. There's no two ways about it. Kids' scores were worse. I just don't – it's
hard to know exactly how worse because it's flawed.
Magdalena Martinez [30:09]
Yeah, thank you. This is Magdalena again.
And so, in reflecting on the different groups that you worked with in your role as a principal, and
then as a district administrator, and then superintendent. From your perspective, who were these
– which were the groups that were hardest hit by the pandemic, and what were your observations
around that?
Clayton Anderson [30:36]
Do you mean segments of our population? Student groups, demographics, that type of-
Magdalena Martinez [30:40]
Yes.
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Clayton Anderson [30:42]
Okay. So, Elko isn't like crazy-diverse in ethnicity necessarily. Elko County as a whole.
Magdalena Martinez [30:58]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [30:59]
There's a relatively good-sized Hispanic population, but nothing like down here in Clark County.
Magdalena Martinez [31:08]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [31:10]
A decent segment of Native Americans there as well. Whatever gaps existed prior to the
pandemic were accentuated and exacerbated by the pandemic. So, your special education
students. Very harshly impacted. Because not only when they were virtual – because we were
(air quotes) "providing services" during that time. And I don't mean that – the air quotes don't
mean we made it up that we were doing it. The air quotes mean we did whatever we could, in a
digital fashion, to provide a service. But if your service – for example, as a student with an IEP,
is to have additional time, and you have somewhere there reading with you and guiding you
through an assessment or an assignment, and the equivalent of that is someone on a screen
reading something to you. You’re not getting the full effect of what we're doing, and still, we're
doing what the IEP said. But that is not – the IEP wasn't written in a digital fashion.
Magdalena Martinez [32:32]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [32:33]
The IEP was written in an in-person fashion. So here we are, trying to fulfill an IEP without the
ability to actually fulfill the IEP, like in reality. So our special education students were hit hard.
Students with emotional disturbances, students with mental illness, and students with emotional
needs, those were really highlighted. Like the number of kids who were engaging –
pre-pandemic to post, the number that we knew about, that were engaging in self-harm, that were
showing signs of depression.
Magdalena Martinez [33:09]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [33:12]
The ones that were going through an identity crisis, whatever. Like all things – mental well-being
is a huge umbrella, right? So kids that were already kind of susceptible, or prone to, or showing
those signs, they were very negatively impacted. Just any sort of achievement gap that already
existed before. So if it was – our ELL students for example. Much like our special education
students, our English Language Learners.
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Magdalena Martinez [33:43]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [33:44]
Just very significantly impacted. Because again, there are certain services that you receive. And
it's different when it's someone checking on you, and asking how they can help, and helping you
with an assignment, as opposed to getting your services and getting your hours. Getting your
check-ins, that sort of thing.
So I'm trying to think of others – so, obviously, your low socioeconomic students. I guess the
bigger umbrella is to say, your at-risk students, right? "At-risk" is a much more all-encompassing
way of referring to kids that have kind of – not strikes against them – but just factors in their life
that require some sort of bridging the gap. It was like those bridges were all – not destroyed – but
you know, like in a city, where they're over water, and that boat has to go through. Like that
bridge went up and was not able to close. So they were just stuck on the other side of this bridge,
and trying to throw stuff over to them instead of actually being able to do stuff with them, right?
That's the way I'm visualizing it right now, anyway.
So we weren't able to bridge those gaps completely. People did their best efforts. I can say that
with surety, from having watched people try to do their best and meet those requirements. But
there's no substitute for a certified teacher who knows a student and being with that student. Like
there are things you can do. There are ways to try to help. But nothing beats a teacher with a kid.
And so, anything that's not that is inferior to that.
And so, yeah. Just inequities that existed prior to the pandemic. Gaps that existed prior. Food
insecurity. Dangerous home conditions. Illegal activities happening in the home. Like you name
it. If there was an at-risk condition for a kid, it was exacerbated during the pandemic in most
situations. And so those were the kids that were affected the most. And obviously, from having
been an educator yourself, one of the first things you learn when you’re becoming an educator is
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And when your basic needs are not being met, or you don't have
physical safety, or a roof over your head, or peace of mind about your living conditions. Just go
ahead and assume that no learning is happening with that kid because they are in survival mode
and people were in survival mode for years. And so to expect that learning was happening, when
basic survival was trying to occur at the same time is unrealistic and unfair to expect, frankly.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [36:49]
Right. Were you finding that those same kids with the at-risk factors had disciplinary records?
This is Carmen.
Clayton Anderson [36:59]
Disciplinary records with school or-?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [37:01]
Yeah, with the school.
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Clayton Anderson [37:04]
You know, anecdotally, teachers – and I don’t know. Maybe it's not anecdotal; but from my
perspective, it was. Because I was in a unique position as an administrator. An administrator,
literally, administers discipline to kids at a school, right? That's a very significant portion of our
job, is to be responsible for giving that discipline. Teachers reported that kids had more extreme
behaviors and that kids were getting in trouble more. I didn't see – I didn't experience a huge
uptick in terrible behaviors or anything like that.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [37:43]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [37:44]
I saw cries for help. I saw kids needing extra assistance. But I didn't necessarily feel like, "Oh,
man, I had – the data didn't show that I had 47 referrals during that semester, and now I have 94,
right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [38:00]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [38:01]
It didn't double. I don't even know if it went up 10%, to be honest.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [38:03]
Mm-hmm.,
Clayton Anderson [38:04]
So from a discipline standpoint, like a documented discipline standpoint, maybe there was an
uptick. But it could just be that from a teacher's standpoint, maybe they were experiencing more
in the classroom. Because a kid doesn't immediately get a discipline referral at school. You try
things in the classroom. You use proximity. You use seating arrangements. You use phone calls at
home. You use incentives. You try all these things before you write a referral and call the
principal, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [38:33]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [38:34]
And so it may just be that teachers had to do that more often, that their perception is their reality.
So to talk to an educator, the immediate response you’re going to get is "yes." I don't have a ton
of data that shows kids were off-the-rails crazy when they came back. It felt like that for a lot of
people. But I don't think the discipline data would necessarily show that it was a marked
increase.
Magdalena Martinez [39:03]
This is Magdalena. And along those same lines, I'm wondering, because everyone was impacted,
15
including teachers, just their level of willingness to try various intervention levels decreased
because they were also under a lot of stress and anxiety, right?
Clayton Anderson [39:21]
Yeah. And you know what? I think that's where the job of a good administrator comes into play.
That's our role. It's not to just sit and wait for crap to happen, and then clean it up. You really, if
you’re doing a good job as an administrator, you’re communicating with your staff. You’re not
finding out about it once it's out of control and it's a huge problem. You’re finding out about it all
along the way because you’re present in your classrooms, you’re checking on your teachers
every day. You’re doing what you can to help intervene.
And so, I think there is an absolute "yes" to what you said. I don't remember everything you just
said. But you mentioned, was there, perhaps, a lack of willingness, or maybe a shorter fuse, that
sort of thing, with teachers? Probably, yeah.
Magdalena Martinez [40:11]
And your sanity as well.
Clayton Anderson [40:14]
Yeah, yeah. I don't mean that derogatorily in any way. I think it's reasonable, right? Like if I had
– I didn't sleep well last night, when I get up the next day, I'm probably not going to be at my
best, right? Sometimes, when someone's not at their best, that manifests itself in different ways.
And so I think there were teachers – and there are still teachers that – because we're experiencing
that. I'd say that a huge outcry right now for my staff specifically is, they feel, and they're letting
me know that they feel burned out.
Magdalena Martinez [40:41]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [40:42]
They feel like maybe the pandemic's sort of over but now, there's a teacher hiring crisis. Now
there's an increased number of kids with special needs. There's more severe behavior issues.
There's mental health issues that are coming to the surface for a lot of people, right? There are all
these things that are making their job more difficult, more stressful, or more cumbersome. And
so, yeah. There's got to be an element of they're already up to here, and (laughs) so what they're
able to tolerate before requiring assistance is probably less.
But yeah. Going back to a good administrator is, they're going to be keyed into those things, and
they're going to try to be proactive with it. I made it a habit of trying to visit every classroom
every day. And I made it a habit of talking to every teacher. I made it a habit of being out at
recess. Trying to present so – you kind of already know those things. And if you don't know it,
you’re around – you’re talking to enough people that someone's going to make you aware.
16
And so, hopefully, administrators everywhere – not just in my district – but everywhere, are
doing that. They're recognizing the need for empathy and for consideration of how people are
feeling and being in tune with that.
Magdalena Martinez [42:20]
Mm-hmm. Now, in thinking about the different levels of government, you talked a little bit about
the changing mandates and expectations. Is there anything you wish the government, at any
level, would have done differently or can do differently, in response to the pandemic?
Clayton Anderson [42:42]
It's hard to say. I stand by what I said earlier that it's unfair for anyone to criticize anyone for
trying to manage the situation the way they did.
Magdalena Martinez [42:56]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [42:57]
I don't agree with everything, every decision the governor made. I don't agree with every
decision the Department of Health and Human Services made. I don't agree with every decision
the Department of Public and Behavioral Health – I can't remember the acronym – that one. I
don't agree with how our local health authority reacted during the pandemic. There are a lot of
things I disagreed with.
I think that – oh, man, it's so hard to know – I'm not going to say I would want them to do this
differently. But I would love – so, have you seen the show Low Key? Have either of you seen
that?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [43:43]
Yeah. (laughs)
Clayton Anderson [43:44]
Okay. I would love to see another – so in the show, Low Key here's reality, and then there are all
these other sub realities that could have happened if something went differently.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [43:52]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [43:53]
I would love to watch a movie of what would have happened if the governor said, "Here are the
recommendations – no mandates – just, "Here is what we recommend, and within your
communities, you make whatever decision you would like to make."
Magdalena Martinez [44:07]
Mm-hmm.
17
Clayton Anderson [44:08]
Because our community, I know would have said, no masks, no social distancing. If you get sick,
you get sick. That's what our bodies do. It's my body, my choice, which they like to say from that
angle, but not others.
Obviously, the cruelty of saying, "They should have just people do that" is, well, if even one
extra person dies, then was it worth doing that, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [44:45]
Right.
Clayton Anderson [44:46]
Is it worth having your freedom, to exist how you want to exist, if it means the hospitals got
overcrowded? And we'll never know if we actually flattened the curve, right? We just did what
we did, and it worked out the way it worked out, and who knows? Maybe everything would have
been the same. Maybe the hospitals would have been a little bit more overrun.
Magdalena Martinez [45:06]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [45:07]
Or maybe it would have been an unmitigated disaster, right? And then it would have been, how
dare the governor not be more strict. And now, he's the one who's killed people, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [45:18]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [45:19]
That would be on his shoulders and their eyes. So, I do wish, just from a selfish standpoint, of
people getting on our case all the time. I wish we had the freedom to just do what the public
wanted to do. Sometimes people don't make the best decisions, and I don't know if it would have
been better necessarily. I know, my life would have been easier, from an "I'm not requiring
anyone to do something they don't want to do" standpoint. Because that invites hostility, and it
invites strong emotions. And I think they were just absolutely detrimental impacts that it had on
kids.
Magdalena Martinez [46:02]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [46:03]
But, what if – I can't picture one kid, at the school that I worked at during that time, that, if you
told me right now, "CJ, you can change what happened, but it's going to mean Savannah and
Jury, and Sergio – and I can't say any more names because it's going to make me cry if I think
about it. But those kids are going to die. My answer is no. No, I'm absolutely not going to do
that.
18
Magdalena Martinez [46:31]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [46:32]
Why would I do that, right? Because any of those kids – I said three names – one of them. Say
one of those names and my answer is "no." Let's do it the way we did it. Because I'm not willing
to sacrifice one kid's life, so I can be free of the burden of someone criticizing the way I'm
implementing a governor's mandate. If I lost years of my life because I obeyed a mandate that
they didn't like, but it means even one kid maybe got saved. I don't even need to be assured that a
kid would have died. The possibility that a kid could have died, if we did it a different way is
enough for me to say, "I'm glad we didn't do it that way."
So to your original question, no. I'm not willing to say I wish that anyone did anything
differently. I would like to know how it would have shaken out if it was done differently.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [47:23]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [47:26]
But I'm not willing to say I wish it was done a different way.
Magdalena Martinez [47:27]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [47:29]
Because I don't want to know. (laughs) It could have been worse.
Magdalena Martinez & Carmen Solano-Patricio [47:35]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [47:36]
And as hard as that is for people to imagine, it could have been worse.
Magdalena Martinez [47:38]
Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm going to now pass the questions onto Carmen, which I'm going to
share mine with you. We have just about three or four more questions, and Carmen will take the
lead on those.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [47:50]
Great. So, Superintendent Anderson, what can we learn from the COVID crisis that can serve as
lessons for future crises, different types of crises?
Clayton Anderson [48:02]
I think we need to learn that we need the infrastructure, and we need the preparation for big
crises like this. It's hard to know what you’re going to need, right, because you don't know what
you need until you need it, and you can't plan for every possible scenario.
19
Carmen Solano-Patricio [48:25]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [48:27]
For example, it would have been great if – I'm just going to get on a soapbox about funding. Our
public education in the State of Nevada is, as far as the funding goes, is abysmal. It's not kind of
bad. It's not underfunded – "underfunded" is a misrepresentation of our public education system
in Nevada. It is abysmal how much money our state dedicates to public education. It's borderline
an atrocity in my mind. There are so many unmet needs, and unfunded mandates, and things that
have to be done.
So the reason I got to that (laughs) – sorry. I will back off the soapbox. All schools should have
been at a 1:1, with the technology devices with kids, a decade ago. Never mind, trying to
scramble, and use grant money from ESR – the fact that we had to rely on the federal
government to put a Chromebook in every kid's hand is pathetic, and it's an indictment of how
our schools were funded.
Magdalena Martinez [49:38]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [49:39]
I don't blame a single principal. I don't blame a single superintendent. I don't blame anyone other
than the people who decide how much money goes to our schools. That should have happened a
decade ago.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [49:50]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [49:51]
I try not to compare my experience in Texas to Nevada too much because I don't want people to
be like, "Shut up about Texas." But it's better funded there. They still need to do better too. But it
was a – when I look at the state of our schools here, compared to what I experienced there. Our
buildings are in beautiful, amazing condition. Our kids had devices in their hands.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [50:18]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [50:19]
Every program was treated like it was the most important program. Every theater was beautiful.
Every football stadium was nice. Everything was nice – and we could do better there too. But to
see how they put their – there's like scripture in the Bible. I don't remember where it is. But it
says something to the effect of, "Where your heart lies – where your treasures lie, there your
heart lies also."
Carmen Solano-Patricio [50:45]
Mm-hmm.
20
Clayton Anderson [50:46]
And to me, it's like, don't talk to me about how important school and education is if you’re not
going to put your treasures there.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [50:53]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [50:55]
If your treasures are going to other stuff, then that's what's important to you, not education. And
so, per usual, educators will make the best out of whatever they've got in front of them. But we
should have been at 1:1 already. We should have had the technology that we needed already. We
should have had the security systems in place already, so we didn't have to, all of a sudden,
figure out how to lock the doors and put signs up everywhere. We shouldn't have had to put a
single sign on a single door. Because every school should have already been equipped with
automated locking systems, with single digital entries, with intercom systems where they could
speak to the front desk. That should have happened a decade ago, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [51:33]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [51:34]
There are so many things that should have been already in place so that we could have
appropriately responded. It wouldn't have helped that we didn't know how to make everything
digital, right? That would have still been a challenge.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [51:45]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [51:46]
But even then, maybe we should have, as a state, already been in a situation where everything
was fully integrated with Google Classroom. And Google Classroom is not new. It was new for
everybody about two years ago. But Google Classroom has been around for a long time and
people have been using it. And Canvas has been around for a long time. It's like all these things
are like, "Oh, my gosh." The fact that people didn't know how to use it – Digital meet is like
"What? You don't know how to do a Google Meet or a Zoom?" I mean Skype had been around
for I don’t know how many years.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [52:16]
Yes.
Clayton Anderson [52:19]
But probably be a good decade by that point.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [52:21]
Mm-hmm.
21
Clayton Anderson [52:22]
And so, I don’t know. Everyone knew how to do FaceTime on their phone. Like, it's the same
thing. Just a different platform and whatever. We should have already been doing those things.
And so then maybe the transition's a little easier and a little less stressful, right?
There's a lot of structures that we should have in place for difficult times and emergencies. But I
think so much of what you want to do at a school to make it better, it's dollars and cents. You've
got to have the money. People are crying for safe – like Uvalde. God bless all those people and
every other school that's experienced a school shooting. All of a sudden, there's an uproar for
"Why are our schools not safe?" Well, I'll tell you why our schools aren't safe. It's because, to
harden a school like it needs to be, it's going be roughly five million a school – to get all your
doors bullet-proofed, to get your camera systems in place. These are all things that should exist
already. And in my district alone, that's going to represent about $100,000,000. It would take like
eight years of a 75-cent tax rate to get just that for that project only, never mind the school that's
falling apart in the roof and the boiler.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [53:31]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [53:33]
There's so many things that need to be filled, and it's all money, and you need the money, and
nobody wants to give the money. We want to pay lip service to how important our kids'
educations are, and how important their futures are, and how important this and that is. But until
you allocate the appropriate amount of billions of dollars to it, you’re just paying lip service. And
furthermore, I'm not interested in what people think of scores. I'm not interested in what people
think of how well we're attending to mental health care. And I don't say I'm not interested from a
– I'm not trying to be a turd. What I'm trying to say is, stop telling us all these things you expect,
but not putting the money there.
Magdalena Martinez & Carmen Solano-Patricio [54:14]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [54:15]
You can say it – but it's like when someone says, "I'm sorry," and then they do the exact same
thing five minutes later. You’re not sorry. You’re just saying it because you think it's the right
thing to say. Don't tell me what you think is the right thing to say. Do the right thing. And until
they fund it, we've got to stop having expectations that things are going to markedly improve.
Because they're not.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [54:39]
On a more positive note, what have been the most innovative ways that organizations and
citizens have dealt with the challenges of the pandemic and the economic downtown that
happened? So, you talked about technology quite a bit, but this can also refer to collaboration
between staff members, different programs that were implemented, or anything else that comes
to mind.
22
Clayton Anderson [55:01]
That's a good question. I'm trying to reflect on – so, I think – I don’t know if "innovative" is the
right word. But I think the pandemic did kind of accentuate the need for communities to support
one another. I felt like there was awesome collaboration, like when schools shut down, for
whatever period of time. And the Boys and Girls Club, for whatever reason, (laughs) was able to
have kids in their building, even though we weren't allowed to have kids in our building. The
Boys and Girls Club was able to step in. Family Resource Center was able to step in. Local
mental health experts were able to provide services in different ways, to give virtual meetings.
I think people got used to – started to get more used to the idea of working together to solve
problems. It was kind of like that was your problem, and that was your problem, and, hey, if you
have this problem, you go to that person. Now it's like, how can we solve each other's problems?
How can we work together? And so, I think there's a lot of good collaborating going on right
now, at least I see that in my community.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [56:14]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [56:16]
I mean prior to the pandemic, even though it was only six or seven months, I didn't interact with
a whole lot of outside entities. I tried to be involved in the community, like going to dinners, and
fundraisers, and things like that, right? But never like – I never heard from a bunch of
organizations who wanted to help until things got crazy, and then it was like, "How can we help?
What can we do?" And I was really grateful at that time, but in retrospect, I'm like, "Why didn't
we already have awesome partnerships before that?"
Carmen Solano-Patricio [56:46]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [56:47]
That's – we often refer to schools as school communities, and that's what a school community
means. It means – in the good old days, the school would be the center of the community. And
everyone kind of branched out from there and helped each other, and I think people just started
to get kind of in their own lane. And sometimes you need to stay in your own lane, but I think
people realized, we have to – we can't just do this stuff on our own, and we can't expect you to be
able to do that by yourself. And here, we're able to help this way. And people were willing to
help in lots of different ways. I think they started to figure out ways they could be more creative
as well.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [57:31]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [57:33]
And us, too, like "How can we help your organization and how can we bring you in?" It was kind
of like, you either donated money or you provided a service, right? Now it's like, "Hey, how can
we get goods? How can we give our time? How can we give you a space to do something, if you
23
need a space to do something? How can we change our schedule, so that it works with your
schedule?" People were just – I've done a good job of being flexible in helping each other that
way.
We became technologically more flexible. We hired – we had a great technology – she's a digital
learning coach, I want to say, is her role.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [58:16]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [58:17]
Which is something I've just never had. She's essentially like a teacher, for teachers, for digital
stuff.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [58:21]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [58:23]
She's great with all the digital stuff, and she teaches everybody how to use it if they don't know
how to use it. So that was awesome. We hired a new role, and we're diversifying with that and
bringing people along.
We're doing a lot more cross-campus collaborating as well, whether it's to save financially or to
address shortages, or whatever. If multiple schools are going to the same type of place, like,
"Hey, why don't just ride together?" instead of taking two separate buses.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [58:56]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [59:01]
Pay twice as much gas, and use twice the personnel to do it, right? Can't we just squeeze two or
three schools on the same bus? Because they're small schools. And so, trying to just really be
more efficient, I think, that's what it came down to is: time is short, expectations are high. We
need to be efficient. And so I think people are seeking ways to do that.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [59:21]
Were there any specific policies that helped you do that, like ARPA, for instance? CARES?
[??59:27] that money?
Clayton Anderson [59:28]
Yeah, so – hmm – not the efficiency necessarily. The ARPA, and CARES, and ESR, and all that.
That all helped us to hire positions that we wouldn't have hired before.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [59:41]
Mm-hmm.
24
Clayton Anderson [59:42]
My job, when I was the Director of School Improvement, was a grant-funded position. That the
digital learning coach that I told you about, hers is. We were able to purchase buses. We were
able to purchase technology. There were things like that. The problem with that is, that money
(laughs) it's got a date on it.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:00:02]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:00:03]
And a finite quantity. So, you can't continue to rely on that – which it wasn't intended to be. I get
that. I would love for it to be perpetual, but that's not what it is.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:00:17]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [1:00:18]
It's got a date and a stamp, and you have to use it by "X" date, and it's limited. And so – you
intentionally don't buy things that you can't sustain.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:00:28]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:00:31]
And so, it was helpful to get us to places we should be already in certain aspects. But, as far as
becoming more efficient, and being better about collaboration – I don't think –
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:00:47]
It's more of addressing the emergency and catching up.
Clayton Anderson [1:00:51]
Yeah.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:00:52]
You used the word "perpetual insecurity" earlier before, the term, "perpetual insecurity," and
have now, mentioned it again – that wasn't intended to be perpetual, right?
Clayton Anderson [1:00:59]
Yeah.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:01:00]
So it seems like the answer to a perpetual problem (laughs) is a perpetual solution, right?
Clayton Anderson [1:01:04]
Mm-hmm.
25
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:01:05]
Are you hopeful, Superintendent Anderson? Are you hopeful at this moment right now?
Clayton Anderson [1:01:10]
Hopeful-?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:01:11]
Hopeful for the future; to regain some learning loss to address some of these problems?
Clayton Anderson [1:01:16]
Yeah. So, I don’t know if it's shining through right now because you’re asking me about things
that are difficult.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:01:22]
Yeah. (laughs)
Clayton Anderson [1:01:25]
I'm like, by nature, an optimistic person. People will laugh. Because they'll see me – and like
even today, I'm seeing a bunch of superintendents from around the state. "How's it going, CJ?"
And I'm CJ, by the way. (laughter) "How's it going, CJ?" And I'll be like, "Oh, I'm fine," right?
And everyone is like, "Oh, I know what that means," and I'm like, "No, really, I am fine." Like
it's – I have confidence that I'm going to be okay, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:01:54]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:01:57]
I think things are going to be fine. I'm wired to think we're going to get through this, right?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:02:00]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:02:01]
And I don’t know why I'm wired that way. I just am. And so, I am hopeful, yeah, absolutely.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:02:11]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:02:13]
Am I optimistic that we're going to get our funding that I have declared we need?
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:02:21]
Uh-huh.
Clayton Anderson [1:02:22]
I'm a little less optimistic that that's going to happen anytime soon. But even there I'm like,
26
maybe they will. Because the superintendents come up with – you know, we have this plan that
we'll be presenting to the legislature of how we adequately fund our schools, and by doing this
over a 10-year period, right? We have a great plan.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:02:39]
Yeah.
Clayton Anderson [1:02:41]
And in my heart of hearts, I feel like, yeah, yeah. This is a good plan, and why wouldn't they
want to do that? Like why would you say no to this plan? How great this will make our schools,
right?
But then there's also the realism of, I know we're not the only entity that an organization that
believes we deserve funding, and there are lots of other people. And then there's politics, and
corporate demands, and lobbying, and special interests. And then, who knows what sort of
behind-the-scenes stuff goes on?
So that's – but, you know what? Here's what it boils down to. This is the reason why I'm
optimistic, I can't control any of that stuff.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:03:24]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:03:25]
I know what I can control. I can control having a smile on my face when I go to the office. I can
control being kind to kids. I can control being a listener when a teacher wants to – I don't want to
say complain – like express frustration or needs.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:03:44]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:03:47]
I can control being a kind and respectful person in a board meeting when the other individual's
not behaving the same way.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:03:57]
Mm-hmm.
Clayton Anderson [1:03:58]
There's a lot of things I can control that started here with me. And so, I'm optimistic that no
matter what happens, I'm going to not throw in the towel, and have a face of doom and gloom.
I'm going to say, "Yeah, it's fine. We're going to be okay. We're going to do this together, right?"
So it will be fine from that standpoint. Am I optimistic about everything coming together, and
people snapping out of their slumber of what actually needs to happen? Eh, I can't be optimistic
about what other people are going to do. That I'm not optimistic because I have no reason to be.
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Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:04:33]
Right.
Clayton Anderson [1:04:34]
And I don't mean that negatively. I mean, I have no business being optimistic about what others
are going to do. Because you’re going to do what you’re going to do, right? I can hope that
you’re going to do the right thing, but I can't be optimistic or pessimistic about it. It's why assign
that when I have no control over it. So-
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:04:51]
I tend to feel the same way. Thank you so much, Superintendent Anderson.
Clayton Anderson [1:04:53]
Yeah.
Carmen Solano-Patricio [1:04:55]
That was really helpful and colorful. (laughs) I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording.
End of audio: 01:05:00
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