Transcript of interview with Donald E. Klinker by Barbara Fidelman, February 13, 1975

UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 1 An Interview with Donald Klinkner An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Fidelman Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 4 Abstract On February 13, 1975, Barbara Fidelman interviewed former Caesar’s Palace cage manager, Donald E. Klinkner (born November 28th, 1935 in Los Angeles, California) in his home about his life and perspectives on Southern Nevada. The two discuss the different recreational activities that Klinker participated in during the fifties and sixties. The interview concludes with Klinkner explaining the misconceptions that tourists have about Las Vegas, Nevada. UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 5 My name is Barbara Fidelman, and this is Nevada History, Oral Interview Project for Doctor Ralph Roske. This interview is being taped at my home. The interviewee is Donald E. Klinkner. The address here is 4033 Nightingale Court. Donald, your age is? Seventy-nine. And you were not born in Nevada? No, I was born in Southern California. You came to Nevada in? I came to Nevada in 1950 and the reason we moved here was for our health, because of the climate and because of Lake Mead. We came here for the Water Ski Races, my folks liked the towns, so we decided to live here. I went to Vegas High School for three years and graduated in 1953. I lived at three or four different houses but always in the Las Vegas area here. I was married in Southern Nevada. (Unintelligible) (Unintelligible) Las Vegas. That was in 1955 I believe. Are you participating in any church activities? I used to belong to the Baptist Church, though I haven't been active in the church for a number of years. Do you remember any of the visits of the presidents or (unintelligible) here in Las Vegas? Well yes, I remember the visit of President Kennedy when he came here. When was that? I think it was in sixty-two, I think it was. Sixty-one, or sixty-two I believe it was. I think it was Kennedy. Some type of thing he had. And also his brother, Bobby Kennedy was here. UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 6 Did you see him? Yes. What was your role in visiting him? No, it was out at the Convention Center at the time. And then they stayed at the Desert Inn Hotel. Vice-President was here. Hoover? Yes. (Unintelligible) Just as a spectator at that time. About the spectacular events that have happened here, you know, the atom bomb was one of the big ones. The biggest blast that they had is what they called the, "Hud Shot," which was in 1952. We went up to the top of Angel's Peak and watched that. Got up there around sunrise, and the most spectacular thing about that was that they would shoot the rockets out first and the atom bomb would go off and you could see the shock waves through the rocket trails. It was a way they had of measuring it and you could actually see the entire bomb burst, and you could see the entire cloud go off and the ice form on top of it, and then you knew that you could count—they told us, I don't remember it was, seven or seven minutes or something when the blast would reach us and you could just count and then all of a sudden you could feel the blast. I remember one time we went out on the Tonopah Highway to watch the atom bomb blast. And when the bomb went off, the lights in the whole sky went off and you could actually see the shock waves coming at you across the desert. It looked like a mirage that was travelling across. And I lived out on the West Charleston area of town. And on one occasion, it broke the paint glass windows of the house. And they came out—and of course the government replaced all that. UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 7 (Unintelligible) The community was—everybody was interested in it. Nobody seemed to be worried about the radiation. It was more of a novelty than anything else. And when I was a kid, they would let us out of school to let us go see it. And you could just—it was just going on all the time, and you know the house one, when they had the big blasts—these were all above-ground blasts. They would go off and you know, the house would shake. You just, it was just normal. It wasn't different than anything else, you know? It was a lot about it today, but there wasn't much about it in those days. (Unintelligible) It was much like going out and watching the Fourth of July fireworks. (Laughs) (Unintelligible) No, not in Southern Nevada. Was gambling an important recreational activity for you or your family? No, just a means of a livelihood. We don't—I don't— (Unintelligible) Well, I started out at the bank and I worked at the bank for a number of years and when I turned twenty-one, we—our main business, our main customers were the hotels. You got to know the people, and so they asked me to go to work. And I left the bank and went to the Fremont Hotel in 1957, working the cage, and then I worked at the Horseshoe when they bought the Horseshoe. And then worked the Desert Inn for five years. Those were the days when they had the tournament champions and we used to have to Calcutta, which is when different players would buy different customers—you might say. They would go together and form a group and buy the players. And (Unintelligible), I remember, there, (Unintelligible) a singer by (Unintelligible) and UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 8 paid seventy thousand dollars each time for him. And when luck they were going, they would buy the pot, and the pot would usually run about eight-hundred thousand dollars. And it was quite a thing. It was called a Calcutta. And it was really one of the biggest sporting events, as far as the individual betting. They used to auction off the different tournament fighters. After you bought somebody, what did you do with them? Well, then you owned him for the tournament. Oh. And so then all the money that was put in there, if they won it, you got it. Oh. It was kind of like a betting pool, only it was involved around a tremendous amount of money. In fact, one person can't usually afford to go in which is why they go in groups to buy different players. (Unintelligible) No the Internal Revenue ruled it illegal or they had to pay a tax or something on it so they discontinued it. (Unintelligible) Some type of thing that was, but it used to create a lot of excitement. And that was the thing that made golf big in this town—it was the Desert Inn. It was the, like the tournament champions that we had there. And it was quite an event, quite an event every year. (Unintelligible) Helldorado? Now, Helldorado is something that was sponsored by the Elk's. Las Vegas Elk's Club. And originally it started off as kind of like a rodeo. The parades that they used to have—the Helldorado parades that they used to have, the hotels used to really go all out, and they would UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 9 spend tremendous sums on the floats. In fact, the floats were built by the same people that built the floats for the Rose Parade—the Tournament of Roses in Pasadena, California, at New Years. And the floats were just as beautiful. This one time, the Sands had a float that had a swimming pool on it and a high dive. Mm-hmm. And three or four divers that were diving as they went up Fremont Street. And the parade that they used to have, what they called the Beauty Parade, which was on the Sunday of Easter used to really be something. I mean, the whole town used to turn out for it. But as the town got larger, it just kind of drifted away from the community spirit and became more a metropolitan town. It changed the complexion. Like when I came here, the town was around 15,000 people. Now I think it's like 300,000. And it's spread out over a bigger area and people don't—the Helldorado more or less died a natural death. I understand. Yes. Used to really be a lot of fun. They'd build a big village, a western-style village and they used to have dances and everybody looked forward to Helldorado, it was really a big event. But I guess we got more sophisticated and decided we didn't need it. It was a lot of fun. (Unintelligible) Well in high school we used to have to make the floats for the Helldorado. It's like, this town, when I was in high school in '51 or '53, we knew that there was only one school and the town was fairly sophisticated. It wasn't what you would call a "cow town" even though there was only 15,000 people. Like our high school, was one of the most traveled high school football teams of the nation. They played in Hawaii, elsewhere on the west coast. They had a lot of money behind the high school and the athletic program. We used to have the (Unintelligible) that was a UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 10 marching group of girls along the football team. And we used to have the community spirit and the support behind this school. It was really something else. Like all the games were sold out. You know, to get a good seat, you had to buy a season ticket and this is for high school. And we used to have pep rallies where they would actually pose off by Fremont Street. The police would watch on as they would march up and down the street, at pep rallies out on the Strip. It just felt like the whole community—we used to have a snake dance up and down Fremont right through the casinos. They'd open up the doors and there would be eight hundred kids who would come running through. (Laughs) (Unintelligible) What I do, (unintelligible) take jeeps out into the desert, you know, ride motorcycles in the desert. Ride through the ghost towns and through the back roads. (Unintelligible) Well, we go out to the old mining camps that are in this area. Up at the old Potosi Mines and out into Pahrump. We try and follow the Old Spanish trail and how it came through town. Up from Riverside and on out towards Western Springs out towards Death Valley. We got out to the old Borax Mines and the various mines that are around this area. And you talked about this guy (Unintelligible), how did you meet him? Well Jonny Idle, he used to be a security guard at the Horseshoe Club when I worked there. We both worked Graveyards, so we'd have lunch together every day and I was always interested in the back country, and being that Jonny was born and raised in Moapa, we would talk about the different things. He used to follow up with his own squadron here in town. He was a justice of the peace, and he used to raise horses and sold em down the river into Mexico. Took me out to UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 11 old turquoise mines that he had. Jonny's kind of like a legend around here. Right now, he's the constable in Glendale, Nevada. What kind of person? He's just a wild good type of cowboy. Strong, nice, outgoing fella. Real strong. He's an old man now, but he was stocky and strong. Lives right on the edge of the Moapa Indian Reservation right now. He's got a little Ranch up there, a house trial on it. His son, his name is Lawrence, he's a ranger up on the Reese River for the state of Nevada and state game ranger. (Unintelligible)? Oh yes, and Jonny would talk about the Indians and about some of the experiences they had like in the year of the big snow, I think which was in 1948 or '49, and the rescue all the chickens that had died. They had a chicken ranch and they got snowed in (unintelligible) so that he sat in and killed 'em all and froze 'em. It was kind of an interesting thing. I don't know where they got the chickens from or anything like that. (Laughs) And chasing alone, you know like (Unintelligible) up on the Arizona Strip, and the twenties, and the thirties, that's a, that's where all the outlaws were. They'd have to go in there every now and then, have a posse. (Unintelligible) They'd do that up, and that's when they first started using the airplanes and they had (unintelligible) and (unintelligible) and I'd been up to Carole Lombard's plane crash, which is up on the (unintelligible) up on Potosi Mountain. It was up on Spring Mountain and Sunrise. And I ran on those tracks and, in fact, the wreckage is still up there. The mountain peak up there. One of the more interesting things that happened here in 1960 when they built the convention center, they open the first convention that they had, it was the world congress of flight. And the most fantastic thing about that was that all the, let’s see, acrobatic teams all had come in from all the UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 12 different countries of the world like, China had one, and the French, and the Germans and everything. And all the school teachers in town, because they didn't have enough people or transportation, they'd get all the (unintelligible) out to Indian Springs where they had this gunnery and air shows and so they'd let out all the teachers out at school. And that was, they had, an interesting convention. That was the first one that they had, right. At the convention center. And it was really interesting. What was your— I just went out and watched it. They had missiles and air fare, and missiles, and everything. (Unintelligible) The town knew everybody was out there. Yes, for the—right. (Unintelligible) Yes, well it was also sold to us that we wouldn't have to pay for it either because it was paid out by Room Tax, and it worked out very well. Very advantageous for the town. Okay. Since you've been here, what kind of changes have you seen here? Economically? Well, we've seen the town develop from a very small town. Like I can remember, in 1950 riding my bicycle up and down Fremont Street and it was one of the roughest streets in town. We used to, there was only like five or six blocks. Anything like two or three blocks, two or three blocks outside of Fremont Street wasn't even paved, they were just dirt roads. That was the day when you didn't have dial phones. You just picked up the phone and told the operator what number you wanted, you know? That's if you could get to the operator. But in those days, everybody's main complaint was the phone company. And that was kind of thing. Like some of the original water (unintelligible) digging up until First Street. Main and First Street. And everything on either side of the street, like a block or two away, that was just residential. And Fremont UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 13 Street of course, has changed tremendously. Like where Union Plaza is now, there used to be a little park. That was for the Union Pacific Railroad Station was. And more or less, the same clubs are there, but really, the Downtown was where the hub of the town was. That's where all the stores were. (Unintelligible) Well, the Strip started from what I understand, from the late forties with the El Rancho Vegas. But originally, like where the Sahara sat, where the Sahara hotel is right now, it was originally called the Club Bingo, and it was a little bingo establishment with real good restaurants. And they built the Sahara in fact, my father was one of the original contractors building the Sahara. It's funny because Las Vegas' name is "The Meadows," and they built the Sahara, the basement of the Sahara, where they had all the air conditioning, they had to put pumps down there to keep the water out of the basements. Because if you went down eight, ten, twelve feet, you'd hit water. Really? They had a water table there, which has dropped to like a hundred feet now. You don't have that problem anymore. (Unintelligible) The flash floods were terrible. I guess the biggest one we had, the late, late—late had been in 1969. When they washed out of the cars out of the parking lot at Caesar's Palace and into the highway. The Flamingo—it used to be that after any rain, out in '51 or '52, after a heavy rain, you couldn't walk around Fremont Street, and you didn't have any storm drains. And the water used to go into telephone companies, and other stores, like Ronzoni's—the water used to be there, it used to flow into there. Maryland Parkway had a super big flood in, around 1954 or '55. It came down Maryland Parkway right by the Huntridge UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 14 Theater. And it hit Charleston Boulevard there, and it became like a river coming down Charleston. And Cashman? And no, I saw this coming down there out of the car and I wasn't paying attention (Laughs). And I got turned around in fear of getting washed out. (Laughs) But if anything Downtown before they put in the storm drains, you just couldn't walk down the street. It sometimes would be ten, twelve inches deep. In fact there was running over the curb whenever there was a storm. And that was a problem. (Unintelligible) to right now? No I think, I think that's one of the main changes as far as environment goes is that in 1950 to like '55 or '56, it was very hot and very dry here and it was very low humidity. And a swamp cooler, or desert cooler would keep the house very cool. But you only used it out during the daytime. It was just too much to have it on at night. And nowadays, you can't use it at all, you have to have refrigeration. Everything used to be kept cool by swamp cooler, or they call it a desert cooler, which is an evaporation cooler. Nowadays, some of the main changes, is that the humidity has gone up. So like, I had bought a house in 1958 and it had two and a half tons of refrigeration hanging on the house wall of (unintelligible) and ten years later, they had a lot of refrigeration because of the humidity. That is one change that has happened in Nevada. (Unintelligible) No because of the lawns and the irrigation, something that's happening like (unintelligible) with the irrigation—and (unintelligible) is what has caused all of the high humidity. What you call Tropicana Road used to be called Bond Road, because it was built one some type of building bond, to pave that road to put it across. Cleaner highway by (unintelligible) up until the Strip. UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 15 (Unintelligible) And Paradise Road, it used to be at the end of what we called "Trill Hill." It used to a great big dip and bumpy and you would hit it going about fifty miles an hour (Laughs) and then all of a sudden, everything would just drop out from underneath you, just like a roller coaster, you know. (Laughs) We used to have (unintelligible) out in the desert and out in the valley. (Unintelligible) Well no, the tax system went up. Of course they have a broader base now. It used to be that if you ever wanted to go to a real restaurant, you'd have to go to California, you know. But now there's a lotta new stores that are opening up. How about socially? Socially? The town is still a small town like, you really don't have any real social—you have the Mesquite Club, which is the oldest one, as far as (unintelligible) go. And we prepared (unintelligible) so that we were prepared for (unintelligible. The service maybe started about ten years ago, believe it or not. At least as I recall. And then you have a few other clubs—one of the main clubs used to be the Hualapai and the bank down there. The club used to be downstairs in the Desert Inn Hotel—Desert Springs Hotel? It was a place to have lunch at. I would have lunch over there. (Unintelligible) Well you have to realize that there aren't really (unintelligible) in this town. Everybody's new and you don't have a few old families in here, but they really only go back, say thirty years? And so you have the Harlem’s and you have the Cashman’s, and most of the town was originally UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 16 (unintelligible). Oh, there's also a lot of (Unintelligible) but you don't have—it's just a new town. I can't really explain it. (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm. The Old Ranch, formerly the Stewart Ranch— Yes. Now known as Mormon Fort. Yes that's Mormon Fort. (Unintelligible) Right, that's Downtown, well that's down on Fifth Street, and it's an originally where they talk about many stories. First of all, when people come out to Las Vegas, they say, "What is Las Vegas?" And really, Las Vegas means "The Meadows." Anybody out here says, "You gotta be crazy." But in reality, it wasn't—it was. There was a (unintelligible) here that was up on Fremont Street and Valley View, and that's original artesian wells were. And that's where the water would come bubbling out over with quite a bit of force. In fact, they talked about the Indian women that used to (unintelligible) the settlers coming through, she would throw a baby in there and the baby wouldn't sink because the water was coming up so fast. And it would just float on top, there was such an upturn. And then that water flowed down to Las Vegas Creek and then it flowed down to the, to what they called the Mormon Fort, and went out into a Mesquite Forest. (Unintelligible) and ended up flowing down into the Colorado River to Las Vegas wash. There was a tremendous amount of water here. And as you came through to Las Vegas, if you came through the north, then you could see the (unintelligible). But if you're coming down from the South, like from Los Angeles, or wherever from lower Colorado, then you couldn't see it because it was down on the UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 17 side of the hill. You had to reach an (unintelligible) would have to drop down into the fort itself. And then there was also he Kyle Ranch which is out in North Las Vegas. (Unintelligible) which was the other main reason that settlers you might say, came to this area. (Unintelligible) I don't—I think this was Swiss or something. Yes. That's where the Elk's stayed in and everything. For the (unintelligible) while they were planning the Helldorado Village. And now it's, I think it’s (unintelligible)— Recreation area? Yes, I guess it's the Recreation Area now, yes. This town was originally—one thing that was unique about Las Vegas is that ever since the town has been (unintelligible) this was a boom town which meant that it was very busy and the (unintelligible) (Unintelligible) Las Vegas has really crown. It has never really had any hard times. It just rose and rose and rose. Like even now, it could be, whenever there's a recession, (unintelligible) is always money in Nevada. (Unintelligible) How has gambling history changed? Well gambling's history change, because originally, all it was primarily, was people would come here from Southern California. But the major hotels are supported primarily by people from the East. (Unintelligible) with people flying in instead of driving in. And you get the bigger fellas, whereas it used to be the tourists and the business used to be real good during the summer, and in May, June, July, August, and September, but then after Labor Day, it started getting slow. And the latter part of October, November, December, it would be dead in town. And then it would really be seasonal. And what they had with airports, they brought in people from the east. And especially, they brought in people with the convention center. (Unintelligible) twelve months out UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 18 of the year. In fact, they only have a really (unintelligible) and I think people stay three months or longer now. This goes on, the history of Sin City? Well, everybody thinks of Las Vegas first of all thinks of sex. That's how the town has been sold. That's what it makes it the mystique, the thing that's unique about this town is that people come out here, and people would be the (unintelligible) like living in a magazine. They can read the magazine and feel wicked. And people build up the town. Like, if everybody did what they said they would get in Las Vegas, it would really be something like I wouldn't want to live here. But that's not the case of people like—I think one of the best examples, especially with women—a woman comes from a small town, she'll talk to her girlfriends, she says she's come out to Las Vegas with her husband or her boyfriend. She'll go buy the wildest dress that she can find in town, show it to all of her girlfriends, saying that this is what she wears out in Las Vegas. She'll no more than dream of wearing it at home, and nobody that lives in Las Vegas would wear anything like that either. But she comes out here, and she dresses up and she looks wickedly, and she doesn't wear any underthings, and just you know, just out part in the scenes, just kind of get wrapped up in— they're all playing the part and acting out what they think goes on here, when it just—it seems that the people here who wear the wildest outfits are not the people who live here, it's the people who come to visit. It's just the people who are visiting us. How about the (unintelligible)? There's nothing to say about that. The one thing about it that when the—when the mob, or whatever they want to say, was controlling the town, and had the casinos and the (unintelligible) had very little (unintelligible) and everything's controlled, very tight. By them? UNLV University Libraries Donald Klinkner 19 By them, or they just didn't do anything here in town. They didn't have a public—you didn't have the problem like today, with prostitutes going up and down the street and pimps at every place at, accosting everybody. They just didn't have that 'cause they'd just run 'em out of town, straighten 'em out in their own way. So you feel like things have changed for the better? No, for the worse. Really, I don't see— Probably because right now, you have (unintelligible) more robberies, more burglaries, people don't feel like they're safe. Lot of times there's more room burglaries and etcetera. When the mob had the place, they just didn't do it because people knew that you couldn't do anything.