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Transcript of interview with Russell K. Grater by James M. Greene, November 25, 1974






On November 25, 1974, collector James M. Greene interviewed Russell K. Grater (born November 16th, 1907 in Lebanon, Indiana) in his home in Boulder City, Nevada. This interview offers an overview of the United States Park Service. Mr. Grater also offers an overview on the history of housing developments in the Las Vegas Valley and Nelson Township. The interview concludes with discussion on the leaf system of local plants.

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Grater, Russell K. Interview, 1974 November 25. OH-00716. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections and Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.


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UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater i An Interview with Russell K. Grater An Oral History Conducted by James M. Greene Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater iv Abstract On November 25, 1974, collector James M. Greene interviewed Russell K. Grater (born November 16th, 1907 in Lebanon, Indiana) in his home in Boulder City, Nevada. This interview offers an overview of the United States Park Service. Mr. Grater also offers an overview on the history of housing developments in the Las Vegas Valley and Nelson Township. The interview concludes with discussion on the leaf system of local plants. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 1 (Audio begins midsentence)—the apparent separation or spacing of (unintelligible) bushes in their own community, as they exist in the desert. Apparently, they—none grows—one right up against the other. Very rarely do you find (unintelligible) bushes growing in clumps. You may find a young plant that started under an older plant but it usually doesn’t last, it doesn’t live too long. What happens there is—they’re competing for—for space really. Because within that different space they take charge of practically all the moisture that falls, or is in the ground. So anything, another (unintelligible) bush trying to get started as a young one, within that area is under an extreme handicap, from the standpoint of space and moisture. If there is enough moisture it may survive alright—and probably will, but usually that moisture is taken up by the older plant. Another thing that happens is, that there’s every evidence that the (unintelligible) bush has toxic leaves and also, there’s a certain amount of toxicity in the leaves and in the roots themselves. Roots too? Roots too. And if this—this is believed then, and checked out, and found that they think to be valid, researchers on this. And that is why you don’t find a lot of other plants growing right around there either. No. And you don’t find very much growing under a (unintelligible) bush. And you’ll find little animals live briefly under (unintelligible) bush. (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm. But they don’t last long and I don’t think they actually could. Now the spacing in the desert then is basically due to the fact that the plant out here absorbs all the available food and moisture, especially moisture in a given area, as far as the fruits reach out. Another plant—trying to get UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 2 established—if its roots come in contact—that’s, that’s as far as they seem to go. That’s the divide line between the two. Mm-hmm. Almost territorial in a sense. Yes. It is. So that’s why the desert appears to have such an even spacing of the (unintelligible) bush. And the thing—same thing is basically true with the burro-bush, which grows out there too, and it’s small. Yes. I—that’s a good example. Would you describe a burro-bush for us, in appearance, say, in flower, or in the grazing season, after it’s dried, or apparently dried? The burro-bush, might start in the spring, it— About how high is it? Oh, it isn’t over about eighteen inches, usually. Most of them are about eighteen inches high in the desert, if they’re getting a reasonable amount of water. They look great. It’s a good forage— Yes. It’s a good forage crop. Crop. Mountain sheep like it. Wild burros like it, as a matter-of-fact. Cattle, horses like it. It’s a good—it’s a good food. It’s very high in nutrients. Now the thing is though, that the grey appearance doesn’t mean that it’s any less alive, so to speak, than anything else. Yes. That grey is— Protection. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 3 Is a protection against heat, by reflecting the heat away from it. You’ll never find big leaves on them. Because this is another protection. They don’t transpire very much moisture. And then, later on in the summer, you see, those things, the leaves become non-existent really. They dry. And the whole thing begins to look dead, looks like a dead plant. And so through the heat of the summer, it’s losing very little moisture. Because it doesn’t have leaves to lose it. Mm-hmm. By which to lose it. And this will hold true normally until it begins to pick up a little moisture in the fall. Mr. Grater, there’s a question I have in my mind about the structure of the plant as being self-protected by the (unintelligible) the spines on the cactus or the cat claw—what’s the proper name? The cat claw. The cat claw is the name. Yes. But there’s—okay. It’s a cousin to some other bean tree. Mm-hmm. That we use a lot. Okay. Now those two plants—could you relate to me the reason, possibly the difference in the self-preservation of the—perhaps thistle that grows at six and seven thousand feet, when we’re talking—have been talking about plants size and the cat claw living down on the bottom of the desert, where the cactus in the (Unintelligible) zone or lower (Unintelligible) zone. Here there’s perhaps several thousand feet, three or four maybe both having thorns. Thorns are normally a protection, I think, at least, there’s ever a reason to believe that it is a form of protection. The thorns normally are only modified structures of the plant. Now they’re not UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 4 always the same structure that was modified. Or maybe a modified stem or there may be a modified leaf. Cactus has modified leaves. All forms of cactus have modified leaves? Mm-mm. But they—you take a cactus seed and plant it and the first thing that comes up is the leafy plant. Well, I can think of the fleshy leaf cactuses that are several species. Then I think of the (unintelligible) that is nothing but thorns. Well, after the (unintelligible) first passes through that little initial leafy stage. Then, then the—then the thorns or spines develop. Now these spines of course, because they were originally leaves, lose their function as a food producer. No photosynthesis takes place in the thing. But the stem, which would be equivalent to the stem of the plant. It does the job. It’s got the chlorophyll. Right. Now the thing is that these spines not only serve as a protection, but not a complete protection. There’s other ways to (unintelligible) a cactus. But it serves another function. Not only is there a lack of moisture being lost because it no longer has leaves. The moisture that it loses, it loses through the stem. Now the stem breathes at night. It doesn’t breathe in the day time. That’s very interesting. And another thing is, that—that these spines on the cactus, they can (unintelligible) their own spines or the little mammal area or something of that kind or a barrel cactus. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 5 They have spines so often in great profusion. These spines like on a barrel cactus or (unintelligible) grow long enough that—and they’re so dense on there that they actually create a cooling system right around the stem. The stem. Sure. Yes. By shade and the air that circulates around down in there. Sure. It’s cooler than is outside. And then the spines are almost invariably like (unintelligible) which reflects that temperature out. So that the spines serve the function, not only of protection but basically a greater importance that it helps to conserve the moisture that the plant has. If you would examine the spiny structure especially of any of the mammal area family or the cactus or the barrel cactus family or the (unintelligible) family, you’ll find that there is a—it has the same suction basically as the hair on your arm. The hair on your arm helps to protect your skin against the sun. Actually (unintelligible) It’s a temperature controller too. It’s a temperature controller. There’s a lot of shade, believe it or not, thrown by the hair on your arm. Indeed there is. And there’s— (Laughs) A lot of shade thrown by the spines around a (unintelligible) and so, it carries its own cooling system so to speak with it. And of course it is able to store water. The cactus plant of course can store quite a quantity of water in those, might say, what you would call stems. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 6 And thus it can take up and use the water as it needs it. It can store enough water to last all season. Is there a native tree to the desert, Mr. Grater? Well— I don’t know, a tree— Yes. That’s a big thing. You know, an awful large classification. But are there— (Unintelligible) The cottonwood you see on the river courses. But I mean in the desert proper. Not in this part of the desert. The only thing that might classify as a tree is the desert willow. The willow of course (unintelligible) Now this is. And so on. Yes. The Joshua, you classify that as a tree if you wish. That’s a—it’s an overgrown lily, really. But there is a desert willow? We say. There is a desert willow. And it grows here in this part of the desert. You find it in various places. It’s a cousin to the (unintelligible) you might call it the desert (unintelligible) grows back in the Midwest and east. Just doesn’t grow as big but it’s in the same family. The nearest to a tree we have down in this country, if you want to call it a Joshua tree, a tree—would be that. I think that’s probably common usage. Yes. It’s common usage. Rather than— But its— UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 7 The scientific fact. Well, I suppose, they say, anything that has an inch in diameter. (Laughs) And ten feet tall, is a tree. (Laughs) Okay. But—so there were some things like the Mesquite can classify as a tree rather than a shrub. And around here, farther down the desert, there are quite a number of things (unintelligible) The lower desert, you speak of? The lower desert. Lower Sonoran Desert down southern Arizona and southern California and into Mexico, get much more water than they get here. Yes. Well, of course, the water’s running that way, toward the sea, I would imagine. (Unintelligible) Table is higher, do you think? Think how much more rain falls. Hmm? You’re far enough south, this might sound strange, but they’re far enough south that they get rains from the ocean that we don’t get. Oh, actually, we’re in a—in truly, in fact, in a rain shadow. Because of the—the Sahara. Right. And we— And then. We’re what I call the middle desert. The lowest to the south is the Sonoran. And it gets much more rain than we do. North of us is the Great Basin Desert. And it gets much more rainfall than we do. And you talked about the rain shadow. Now we’re in the rain shadow, but we’re also UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 8 under the control of the high and low pressure areas. There’s a high pressure area off of the pacific coast, that shifts back and forth, that keeps most of these storms out of our district. That’s an interesting thing that you explained to me a few days ago. I’d like to have you elaborate on that, Hawaiian High you spoke of. They call it the Hawaiian High. It’s a high pressure area that seems to develop off shore ways and it’s—it moves north or south a bit by season. This time of year now it has moved down off of the southern California coast, a ways, and storms coming in from the north tend to cut across northern California and are shoved east. Goes across northern California, northern Nevada, and then on eastward. Watch the storm tracks and that’s the way they go. The winds from the south, going the same way. They’re cutting clear cross through Mexico and down into the gulf. Is there a general area where these two fronts might split or divide? There are—it’s just like a big, big rock on a stream out here in the ocean. It would be the Sahara that did it, then? The Sahara of course traps the moisture that’s coming in from the pacific that normally comes in anyhow. Well, then what—what would make the—oh, I see. It would be the high pressure (unintelligible) The high pressure makes the divide. Oh, I see. Yes. So—but the Sahara in the meantime catches the (unintelligible) it’s coming from the pacific across the (unintelligible) and— And there’s no more drops until (unintelligible) or (unintelligible)? Very good. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 9 That’s five hundred and something miles. We get some up here and the Charleston Peak Country. Some. With your higher elevation, where it can condense. Yes. Otherwise it just passes over us. There’s nothing, no cooling, that actually causes moisture to condense (unintelligible) and then it—then it does it. Now we notice our summer rain would normally, if it (Laughs) (unintelligible) flash floods come in August. You see most of our (unintelligible) get an awful lot of water in a short space of time. What happened to that Hawaiian High at that time? It moves. And (unintelligible) Where is it above this coastal influence? It goes north and then we have our summer storms. Most— Which allows the coastal atmosphere to prevail, is that it? To some extent (unintelligible) Coastal. Southern Arizona, for example gets quite a little—quite a bit of water in the summer. Yes. Yes. (Unintelligible) And this—this always surprised me to find out that, southeastern Arizona and (unintelligible) Tucson across east. Oh, its supports have been great. They get quite a bit of water in there. Yes. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 10 And that’s when they expect to have their rains. So at that time, the thing moved far enough that they get it there, and we get the fringe benefit of it here, in the form of some thunderstorms. Now that’s a field that I’m not well versed in (unintelligible). This field of hydrology and weather and all this. But—but I can see the effects. And I can—I can perhaps have more knowledge on what goes on out here in the desert. Either as a result of getting in or not getting it, this moisture. Due to the fact that our ecology, including weather, you spoke of, is pretty stable, do you see, with the introduction possibly of water and through the Great Basin, do you see any penetration of new animal life? Or do you just—do you think that perhaps the great amounts of sunshine and the high temperatures are going to be the controlling factors if water is introduced? Well. I mean wild animal life. If you introduce water—I don’t know exactly how you mean that, whether you introduce it for man’s benefit as for farming, the irrigation. Yes. I do mean that. You’d have a great disruption of course of the animal life that’s here. If you introduce man’s activities, you have to separate in my mind, the impact on the desert. The ecology of the desert into what man does and what nature does. When man comes in and introduces things which are not normally to be found there, in the way of more water and more irrigation, and farming, and all this sort of thing, the normal desert situation disappears. Then—yes. Yes, yes. One of the things I’m thinking of, is noise levels that so few people think of. Animal life is very worried, very conscious to it. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 11 Well, it would be to some extent. We’ve been astonished to find, though, that mountain sheep out in the atomic energy area (unintelligible) Yes. Really? Yes. (Laughs) (Unintelligible) they’re not too much disturbed with those explosions and shocks out there. But cars, automobiles, will definitely tend to move in completely. But they’ll definitely tend to move various wildlife (unintelligible) away from our (unintelligible) highways. If they don’t, things get killed. This is one of the big problems, for example, the desert tortoise. Desert tortoise, is such a slow moving animal, and he crosses the road and then he gets killed. So around near the highways, you’re not going to find very many live desert tortoises. Because they get killed too often. This goes for snakes. Many snakes you see will come out on the highway of the night in order to absorb moist—or heat. Right. Could you relate that to the vast number of rabbits and other rodents that we see on the highways, every morning—being cleaned up by of course our predators from the air, but why were they hit? The rabbit’s a fast moving animal. They’re blinded by the lights moving. Blinded by the lights. Yes. How about the rush of noise and sound? I mean— This might startle them. They wouldn’t know which way to go. But it’s the light, I think that does most of the damage there. Because they don’t know where to run. Which way? UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 12 I think they’re blinded. Right. And so they get hit. But—and this goes for small life, too. Mice, kangaroo, rats, things of this nature that cross the road. If you—you find the same abundance of ‘em if you got out on a desert road. (Unintelligible) main highways. But not very seldom do you find them killed. Because— No, no. The desert road doesn’t have that kind of traffic. But man’s impact on the desert is especially noticeable, maybe on highways and around your cities. And anything that he finds in the desert is a place where he finds an unusual interest. And a spring in the desert always collects a crowd. Now this is important, for the very reason that a spring in the desert is the life blood to several things that live right around there. A man comes in camping in the desert. So he finds a spring somewhere and he knows of it or somebody’s told him of it. So he goes in there and he puts up his camp and he decides to stay for three or four days. What happens? Well, he has preempted the water source. And animals that— They’re afraid to come to it, now. That’s right. The little animals are about the only ones that would come in. Mice. Yes. Things of this nature but the only things that will come in with other things require water and come in normally every night to get it, will not come in. So his impact on the desert life is—can be considerable. And in a different way. A man can be either a conservationist in the desert or he can be a destructive creature. Now in southeastern California when I was making a study down UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 13 there on desert, on the California deserts (unintelligible) management (unintelligible) where you find the native palm tree. I know where it is. Alright. It’s at Corn Springs. Now Corn Springs, if you go in there today you’ll find out that a very high percentage of those palm trees have been destroyed. How? Because people—somebody with a perverted sense of enjoyment lights a match to those beautiful skirts that surround the palm tree and the whole things flares up in a big bond fire, of course. Oh, (unintelligible) So, they’re destroyed. And over there near (Unintelligible) I bolstered an area that I had a picture that was taken of the beautiful grove or palms over there. And it must have been about a couple of hundred of them in this grove. And I went back in there about three years later to make a study of that area and there wasn’t a live palm tree in it. All been burned out. So man can be highly destructive and I—in the process you see, of destroying those palms, he destroyed the habitat of several things that lived there. (Unintelligible) So those—those are gone. Take a long time for those to come back, ‘cause those are isolated sections. Yes. And you have no connection between—between the palms groves, so to speak. So the type of community life that develops around a palm grove, when you destroy the palm grove, you’ve destroyed the community life along with it. A number of things. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 14 And even though in that area that was burned, some small palms were beginning to start up again. It will take a long time before that will ever be restored to this same type of plant and animal life that once lived there. So man can be highly destructive. We find—I found evidences of other things that are thoughtless perhaps. Up in the Valley of Fire up here, I found places where the narrow-leaved yucca, when it blooms and it’s a beautiful thing when those tall shafts come up. Oh yes. In one area in there, where the—where there was a beautiful collection of them. Someone went in there and it looked like they’ve taken an axe or a machete or something and just chopped them all down. Now, it didn’t kill the plant especially, because it still had its roots system and all that. But they went to flowers and there went all the seed production. Now the seed production is very vital to the small birds, rodents, things like that, and now that’s gone. So that has an impact on the—on the wild life immediately in that area, you see. Because no longer can they go into those—where those yuccas were growing and get hundreds of seeds and store them, which may mean the difference between life and death, during the fall and winter. So man can be destructive or he can be constructive. Yes. That’s one of the big jobs of the natural parks system, is controlling land, then. Yes. It’s more than controlling man. Educating him first. It isn’t enough just to physically control him, and say, you can do this and you can’t do that. But rather it’s to try and show man how to live with nature, and the need for protecting it. The value. First he has to love it and understand it. He has to get a feeling for it. UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 15 That’s— This was part of my job, was—in fact, a large percent of my job with the public. Whether it be here, when I was living here, or when I was living in the Sierra’s or up in (unintelligible) Yes. It’s try and take that visitor who comes in to the area and show him something about the values of this area. That maybe he never dreamed of before or never thought about. And send him out of here when you leave of feeling that, “Gee, this is great. This is a fine area. This—this thing should be maintained. This is essential for the national character of our people. So what can I do?” And so you’ve shown him what he can do. Yes. And the importance of it. I always feel that the desert, the mountains, these areas that people come in to in the summer to—to see and enjoy are much like getting a battery recharged. We live in our cities and we get these all the uproar and rush, and hustle and bustle, and uproar, and daily life, going to work and fighting through traffic, and all this sort of thing. And this has a tremendous impact upon our physical well-being and upon our mental well-being. To get that person out of that environment and stick him out here somewhere, on the stream, around the desert area, that (unintelligible) mountains and out in the meadow somewhere around a lake, his whole personality literally changes. Indeed it does. And so the park service—the national park service for child work (unintelligible) you see, and my job then, was largely woven around trying to get people to understand more of the values of the natural world around them. And so, you tell them what the geology is, how these mountains were formed, how the desert was formed, what goes on out here and show them what’s going on UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 16 out here. Let’s give them a better understanding in their world. And you show them how animal life adapts to the same thing and how they live in the desert, what their problems are, plant life and what their problems are. How the plants and animals relate to each other and finally, where does the visitor fit into all of this? You see, man is not an entity to himself. The old statement, “No man is an island, is so true.” Yes. Everywhere he goes, he has an influence, for good or for bad. Indeed. Yes. He has. So he isn’t by himself. Therefore, whatever he does is going to have an impact. Why don’t we just tell the kids down here at school, that man’s influence is much like throwing a pebble into a big (unintelligible) of water. It starts out—it starts creating waves. And those waves will eventually get to the other side. So a man from Boston comes out here and what we do with this man from Boston will have an influence on people living in Boston. May seem a little bit remote. No, no. But if he goes back with a feeling for these things, and an interest in them, and an understanding of a value, he’s going to impart some of that to somebody else back there and they’re gonna start to think about it a little more, too. And maybe think a little bit more about what’s around him, where they are. So my job through the years, almost thirty-four years of it— Yes sir. Was spent trying to show people what they have. They have a heritage— They—that’s true. That they should by all means take care of it. And one of the—one of the elements in that heritage, one of the facets of it, is the desert. You come out here to where I live now, and the UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 17 people who are living here now, the kids especially in the schools that I work with. I tried to show them something about how this desert works. The intense interest that was there and the fact that in the desert, they know so little about it yet—that may have some of the greatest promises for mankind that you would imagine. We don’t know yet, (unintelligible) these things usually do, and how we can use that mileage. It runs (unintelligible). So my job then has been to try, might say, in a sense, it isn’t brainwashing, it is trying to— Educate. Create an understanding and appreciation of— Yes. The desert. And that’s been my work for some thirty four years. Mr. Grater, if man does receive a feeling and the appreciation for this peculiar type of an environment, what do you see with a world population explosion, happening to our desert areas over the world? What will become of them? Well, I can see in some ways, in which the desert may enter into this thing. The deserts could be made productive, if you had enough water, of course. The Sahara, for example, there was quite a bit of conversation about that, because the Sahara’s underlined with a lot of water. In our desert down here, there are section of it of course that could be made very productive. I don’t see though— In agriculture you mean or animal life? In agriculture. I doubt too much about animal life because it’s pretty difficult to grow food for the type of animal life that man would use. I don’t see any great changes in our desert except as man may destroy sections of it. The desert even in sections will maintain itself because every section is a complete community unto itself. As I pointed out to you here the other day that, in UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 18 the forest country if you have a fire, the forest doesn’t come back there, something else does. And the forest then comes later. Out here, if man destroys something, the only thing that can come back was what was there. We don’t have any change of—of a community at all. So, you can destroy something right where we are, and while we’re here a mile away, and you have and an (unintelligible). As far as the community life, it’s right there. There will be an impact but it isn’t going to be maybe severe. It’s just like the stone. There will be ripples. So the desert is a vast desert and I can foresee that there are gonna be sections of it, that man’s gonna change. It’s almost unavoidable. Talk about a population explosion, well, there’ll be people that are going to be moving into the desert. You know, find out how to live in it, find out how to get along in it, if you’re (unintelligible). So there are going to be sections, you’ve seen it all through the (Unintelligible) Valley. You see it down in (Unintelligible) Valley. You see it down in the Coachella Valley, and places like that. Down around Tucson, in the desert country. Man’s going to invade the desert in a lot of places. The crux of this thing is going to be whether when man invades the desert, wherever it may be, if he recognizes the limitations which he should put upon the land that he invades and its relationship with the land that surrounds it—if he recognizes this, and does his best to make his life in the desert compatible with what’s outside of his (unintelligible) so to speak, then the desert will not appreciate the change, not too much at least. There will be an impact, of course. But we can continue to expect to have a very good desert, if man will take care of what he has, and what he does. Mr. Grater, I know that after your retirement, you’ve been in contact, constantly with almost two generations of Americans. The junior college American, the city, community college level individual, which not only is a teenager, or a young person in their twenties—and also at the elementary school level. That is a large segment of people who are receiving UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 19 your—the benefit of your many years of experience as a naturalist. Is it taking, for the future of the desert, are they appreciating your work? I (unintelligible) Learning your work? I don’t know whether they appreciate my work or not but they sure like the desert. Once you tell them what’s going on out here. That’s half the battle. Yes. I would think. Yes. I think it is. Because— This appreciation you speak of. When you get—with appreciation and understanding comes a desire for more knowledge. Yes sir. And with that comes still a more a desire for still more knowledge. It’s just like a snowball, it picks up as it goes. Then you should be encouraged. I am—just talking to you. I am very much encouraged. I’ve been working with enough elementary schools students in Las Vegas and Henderson and Boulder City and—since I’ve retired to come in contact with literally hundreds of them. And they’re eager beavers. And if you will give them the information and show them how these things work—and I don’t go in a lecture to them and say—we don’t go academic. Rather will take an animal like a kangaroo, rat or a pocket mouse, or a snake, whatever thing be, and we’ll try and figure out, how does this thing get along in this desert? What are its problems? How does it do it? And once we begin to uncover that for those kids— UNLV University Libraries Russell K. Grater 20 They’re receptive? They’re very receptive. And you never have to worry about attention, it’s there. You’re dealing with a built-in, natural subject. People are naturally interested in things that move or grow. Yes. And so—it’s very simple really—to work with kids in those fields. Gratifying. I’ve watched them take hold on this thing and I’ve been working with them now for five years since I retired. And we worked on desert ecology. Would you encourage—or has there been any thought given as to increasing the number of educational facilities, or instruments, like if a young farmer has his 4F, do you think the scouting organizations could receive greater exposure to your information? How are we going to get—you know, Mr. Grater, after your generations of students—our parents, who’s going to take over your job? And their job. Well, I would suppose that the same thing will happen there that happened to me. I had a mother and a father that were keenly interested in wildlife and the farm. And I got interested in it. These kids I would suppose, if they get interested in it now, their kids will be interested in it, too. I once heard a man say, a very good friend of mine sa