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Transcript of interview with Ray Keith by David Alexander, March 3, 1980






On March 3, 1980, David Alexander interviewed community volunteer, Ray Keith (born October 1st, 1911 in Montgomery, Alabama) in her home in Las Vegas, Nevada about her life and memories of Southern Nevada. The two discuss how Keith first arrived in Las Vegas and the addresses that she has lived at. The interview concludes with Keith explaining how she helped to charter the “Home of the Good Shepherd” housing facilities with local Las Vegas women in the sixties.

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Keith, Ray Interview, 1980 March 3. OH-00992. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections and Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.


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UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith i An Interview with Ray Keith An Oral History Conducted by David Alexander Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith iv Abstract On March 3, 1980, David Alexander interviewed community volunteer, Ray Keith (born October 1st, 1911 in Montgomery, Alabama) in her home in Las Vegas, Nevada about her life and memories of Southern Nevada. The two discuss how Keith first arrived in Las Vegas and the addresses that she has lived at. The interview concludes with Keith explaining how she helped to charter the “Home of the Good Shepherd” housing facilities with local Las Vegas women in the sixties. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 1 Informant is Mrs. Ray Keith. The date is March 3rd, 1980, at 3:30 PM. The place: 3852 Remount Drive, Las Vegas, Nevada. The collector is David Alexander, 1405 Vegas Valley Drive, Las Vegas. The project is Local History Project 11, Oral Interview: Life of a Las Vegas Old Timer. I trace a Southern accent—where did you grow up? Montgomery, Alabama. The cradle of the confederacy. (Laughs) And what was your family background? Well, my great grandfather, great-great grandfather came to Alabama right after it became a state before the Civil War. And they had plantation out in far Montgomery and then after the Civil War, he—the slaves were freed, they came into Montgomery, and built about a city block, and built a house on the front part of block. And then at the back of the block, they built all of these houses so the slaves could stay with the family. And when I was a child, up until the time my father died, those houses were still there. ‘Course, the slaves were gone. I only knew one slave, he was very old—ninety or something like that, he would not leave the old plantation afterwards. But it was a knee-up to be brought up with slavery as you could this day and time because the Negroes stayed there, they would wait for us at the house and even got the (unintelligible) and then you know, we took care of them, and I got up in the middle of the night to care for a sick baby (Laughs) or something like that, but this was the way I grew up in Alabama. What did you think of Gone with the Wind? Oh, I enjoyed it. Did it seem something of the life that you had? Well— Remnants of it? UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 2 It was, this was just stories, ‘cause you see Gone with the Wind took place— Right. Long before I was born, but it was certainly within keeping of the Southern tradition and whatnot. Did, then, well what brought you to Las Vegas? And when did you come? In 1953, my husband was—came here. We lived in San Francisco in (Unintelligible) county and it was dissatisfied with his work and he came here as a manager for First Western Savings. And then I remember years ago, (unintelligible) and so he came alone, and I came over instead of a covered wagon in a station wagon (Laughs) (Laughs) We moved from San Francisco with two (unintelligible) and a cat and a dog. And both of ‘em on leashes. And the furniture of course had been shipped, and so we drove down from San Francisco because the animals. And I drove down the Las Vegas Strip and at that time, the Flamingo Hotel, the Sands had been built I think the year or two years before. The Thunderbird, El Rancho, and the Frontier, and those were on the Strip—no high-rises, all the hotels, well, motels, everything was on the ground floor. You know, spread out. Very flat? Very flat. So we came down, looked at this, and then said, “So this is the Las Vegas Strip?” (Laughs) (Laughs) And I had never been to Las Vegas before, and when I left for San Francisco, and the people I had known back east at the hotel thought I was coming to “Sin City,” which was Phenix City in Alabama that I knew quite well. And so, oh, about the 15th of December, or something like this, and no greenery at all, the lawns were dead, the leaves out of the trees, and then UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 3 (unintelligible) mountains, all around, I came in, and looked at this place, and I thought, I had been brought in a jumping off place of creation, this is horrible (Laughs) And to me, the mountains looked like airships. (Laughs) (Laughs) And just this, just saying, in friends. Nothing. And I had been here for about two weeks before I loved it. And I think what really made me fall in love with Las Vegas were the people. I had traveled to near six hundred places, and lived in places, but then this was just like home. And I never leave, even after—when my husband died, and I get these things from San Francisco and calls from the east, (unintelligible) coming back to civilization, they thought that I—well, I think they sometimes still think that I’m living out here and in a wigwam and I send up smoke signals or something like that. (Laughs) And the way it’s grown now, it’s just fantastic. A lot of people resent this, you know, “the good old days,” when it was a small town, and we did have one, but— But you don’t really miss the old days? No, not really. I mean, it’s kinda nice to think about, you know, like this once in a while. (Laughs) Mm-hmm. But then when I came, I was interested in lots of the community activities. And the children I got involved in the Girl Scouts, and the YMCA and the Family Counseling, the Red Cross—you name it, and I’ve been there organizing. The United Way, when it was started—all of these things. And so to me, it was just like, and I had never lived in a town this small, I would say it was a process— UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 4 What was the population then? Oh, approximately, forty thousand in the neighborhood, I guess. But everyone—it was so different from the way I was brought up. I mean, like you know, your family background and whether you had money or you didn’t have money, all of this amounted and made a difference. Yes. And people in Las Vegas just accepted you for what you are. I mean, it just didn’t make any difference. The background and anything else, and see, this was even true in the gambling industry, which I wasn’t connected with. But then everybody was in gambling industry then, and had an illegal background because they were the only ones that had any experience in gambling. You see, it was illegal everywhere else, but it was a real interesting town, just like a small town, you never locked the front doors. And you went by somebody’s house, and they were not home, you came in and had a drink, maybe left a note, said, “Thanks for the drink,” (Laughs) (Laughs) Some things like that. Now I resent that, that we can’t do that. (Laughs) (Laughs) I have to have a lock on my front door and that I’m very careful before I open to let someone in. But it was really just quite an interesting small town, and then, a lot of people had concern about bringing children up here. And I’ll admit, with the gambling and all— How did you find the school system, when you came? Well, we did very well if we just kept a roof over their head. (Laughs) (Laughs) That was about it. And I am quite sure that the curriculum left a lot to be desired. But that it improved through the years, and I think it was very good. I don’t know that it was really any UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 5 worse than you know, other small towns in the United States. And they—well, my children lacked because as I said, they never—every school they ever went to, ‘cause they went you know, from the first grade and then to junior high, and then to high school, everyone was in your school. Oh. That they moved like this. And I thought we had a very good school system and I worked in it with the PTA and whatnot. And they, left some things to be desired, and today, I don’t know really. Where are your— excuse are me, where are your children now, and what are they doing? I have one son who lives in Las Vegas, and he was always interested in cars. And for a while had his own shop, and so now, he’s giving that up and he just does this as a hobby—he builds racing cars. (Laughs) He’s got one in the garage. And he’s gotten interested in boating and he learned to (unintelligible) with the Charleston Heights Boating, and he’s doing some professional boating and just as happy as a clam with what he’s doing with no formal education you know, after high school. And this one friend of mine, approximately his age described him, “He’s the least academically inclined person I’ve ever seen in my life.” (Laughs) (Laughs) And so after his father’s death, I thought, very responsible for this age, and you know, joined the Marine Corps. And (unintelligible) He was in Vietnam? Mm-hmm, he did two-two’s in Vietnam and volunteered to go in and then said he did one, so he’d do a second one, and he came out just fine. And then Sally, my daughter, graduated from UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 6 Western High School and went to the University of Arizona and came out with a double major in French and Psychology, and her junior year went to France, the University of Grenoble. Alright. And is now living in Pennsylvania, she’s married and has one child. And she married an engineer, real nice, very happy, very settled, but she doesn’t feel about Las Vegas like Bill and I. (Laughs) (Laughs) I mean this kind of thing, she comes back and visits on occasion, but— Mm-hmm. As a local, how much impact does the Strip have on your life? And I mean, do you often go to the casinos or shows? Well, when I first came, I was fascinated by it. We would go at night and you know, the locals come in here at eleven o’clock, they would be coming in the daylight, because we have to make the rounds, by a dinner show, a late show, then end up at the service show, come in, and this was quite interesting. And then with business, of my husband’s, and quite often people come in from out of town and so we would have to play off the chamber of commerce, and we’d take ‘em out on the Strip. And I’ve gotten to the point where I would rather go to the dentist than watch a show on the Strip. I had thought that after all of these years maybe I would change, but it’s something I only do when people from out of town come in. And I just, it’s just not my (unintelligible) of a time. I don’t (unintelligible) and I think very seldom, I go out to demo on the Strip more. Really can’t remember the last show I’ve seen. What about your children? Oh you mean with the effect of gambling on the children? Mm-hmm, right. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 7 Well, this was real strange, let me go back a minute on the gambling. I mean, I had no compunction about gambling at all when I came here, and I still don’t. But I’ve never gambled, simply more because it bores me than anything else. And I think of just being around so much of it, and I mean, seeing it, that like shows, it’s more novelty than anything. And I think the children grow up the same way. And I remember doing this on consciousness, I was a child, we had cards, and we played nickels, or something with them all the time, and—but, we never kept any cards around the house, to speak of. And I didn’t like (unintelligible) and neither did my husband, so we just—used to look for something more. We’d just ignore this situation. And so my children really grew up knowing less about gambling or card playing than anyone that I can think of. And I don’t think I was the only one—I think a lot of people from back east did this same thing, where around the children played the gambling down. And then I heard him, Bill, my son—I received a call from the station at Barstow about several months before he got out of it. We come home on weekends and comes back with a whole fistful of money, and I said, “Where’d you get that?” because I knew he didn’t get this money. And he said, “Oh, playing Blackjack.” Well, that’s something. And the next weekend he comes home all (unintelligible) and nervous, all the money gone. And I said, “So (unintelligible)?” and he said, “I’m just, I went overhand a little bit.” And so then the next time he comes in, no money again. And I said, “So you lost this weekend, didn’t you?” And he said, “No, I didn’t lose. But they won’t play with me anymore because I’m the big gambler from Las Vegas.” (Laughs) (Laughs) Where he picked up Blackjack, I don’t know. Somebody told him how to play, but he knew just enough about it. But just the name of “Las Vegas,” he was the big gambler, so he couldn’t get any tables. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 8 Well, Las Vegas has a ring to it that people are suspicious of it, if they are a gambler, I think. Well, I think—I’ll agree with you, it does. And then there’s a lot of stigma to Las Vegas. Yes, I was going to ask you about that. Well, I can remember when Sally went to the University of Arizona, about joining a sorority, she did join one, but she had the longest recommendation of anyone that had ever joined a sorority from the people who were here who had been in sororities, and they sent these recommendations out. And then one, when she was going through rush week, this was just terrible. Some girl, back east, or somewhere, said, “So what does your father do in Las Vegas?” and she said, “Well, my father died.” And so then this girl said, “I guess involved gambling on the side.” (Laughs) Now, I wouldn’t join that sorority if I never picked a sorority, I don’t care. But it did exist. And I know she was—I know she went to Europe, she would pick this up. And I picked it up too in travel out of the country. Las Vegas, I’m afraid, brows— They immediately think that you’re a gambler. They think it’s like—did you ever hear of Phenix City, Alabama? No. Well, it was a very small town on the border of Alabama and Georgia, next to Columbus, Georgia. And I don’t really know how this thing came into existence, myself, but I had been there, and I’ve seen it. But then they had gambling in this town all the time, and I suppose trickled—something illegal, something like, what is this—across from the Cincinnati, Kentucky, or something. But a lot of these gamblers came from, I forgot the name of this. And the crime rate was terrible, and they done came and says, by putting a shot glass on someone’s head and shooting it off, and all of these things. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 9 (Laughs) And so this is what people from the east think of Las Vegas, as another Sin City. Well, I heard, when I told ‘em I was moving out here to go to school, thought I had lost my mind. They couldn’t believe that I’d be living here, and they’d never been. I had been here before, and I knew that there was another life besides the Strip, and I’m glad for you to tell me about it. You said that you’re going to a dance class later this afternoon—then you must have an interest in the arts, and I’d like to know how they’ve progressed since you first came. That is really interesting too, because when I first came in, they had, I think it’s the Las Vegas Concert Course, and it’s still in existence. And they, at this time, and up until just a few years ago, I finally got in, I was a member, and they would bring in about four, maybe five attractions during the year. And we bought a season ticket and they would have maybe a various—they would maybe have a one dance number, and occasionally a second, but this wasn’t very good. But it was the only cultural you had in Las Vegas, and the first one that I went to was off the country, came here from San Francisco, after a very small—they had not stage parts. They, and they did (unintelligible) they had two saw courses in the planks across the family banquet table, and they went through this. It was really quite pathetic, and I said, “Oh, I’m going to get involved in this, I’m going to.” ‘Cause I said, anything about anyone that comes, yes, I can borrow enough furniture from the house to give this place some stage props. (Laughs) Well, I didn’t, I didn’t get that involved at the time, and my husband would only maybe go to one a few days, but I couldn’t stand these dances. And first of all, if we don’t go, we’ll never have anything else, you have to support it. That’s right. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 10 And it gives me a great deal of pleasure to think of what goes on at the university here and the dancing and the music and everything else. And it’s—I mean, Las—I mean, I’m very proud of the courses in Las Vegas, and to think that it came from just absolutely nothing! That’s wonderful! But as far as my dancing is concerned, this is just something that I do for pleasure. I started a few years ago— How often do you go? Three times a week. And— How long? An hour and a half—I mean, an hour and fifteen minutes. Doesn’t it feel wonderful after you’re through? Yes, really—it does, but it—well you see, you start—well, I started out as probably most older people do. I didn’t do a lot of exercise. Mm-hmm. And then I got the fever, and it’s worse than religion. I have to dance, there’s nothing else that can stop me! (Laughs) (Laughs) And of course, it’s not really how good you are, but it’s the pleasure that you get out of it. And modern dance, it’s quite technical and quite difficult. In fact, I was laughing the other day to someone, talking about dancing, I said, “Oh yes,” I said, “You can take ballroom dancing and learn in ten easy lessons,” I says, “You can take modern dance and you can learn in ten easy years,” and somebody else added, “Everyday!” (Laughs) (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 11 And it’s really not an exaggeration! You don’t really—to me that’s the best part, all the appreciation courses you can take, whether it’s music, painting, dancing, anything. You never realize what it is until you try to do it yourself. That’s right, that’s what I would— But I didn’t have a lot to be proud of in Las Vegas. And this is one reason I’m so interested in it, that I hadn’t went and get involved in the arts as much as I would probably have liked, but you can’t do everything. (Unintelligible) so big and the traffic is so horrible, I said, “Well, I don’t enjoy the traffic,” but then I learned to drive in it. I said, “When I stop, I’m gonna stop worrying when Las Vegas stops growing.” And but—at that same time, I realized it is different. The people coming in here because they don’t see this other side you know, quickly. And I know that I’m quite lax about it, about meeting new people, and tis kind of thing. And when, a number of years ago, I did quite a bit of this. You mean welcome new people to the community? Yes, so large now that it’s really quite hard to dig. Sure. But then, when it was small, they, you went to a large party and everybody turned around despite. You could pick up the paper and read anything, and that you didn’t know the person or their address, knew where they lived, or something like that, and so it’s, I guess it’s just the difference, but it’s still a nice town. And we just divided into groups more than we did as one big group. Now that the smaller groups are out like this. Well, you mentioned that, about the dance classes—are they at the school? The university? No, they are running (unintelligible) you see. And she has opened her own studio, her own dance studio over on—in that little shopping center near that Eastern Desert Inn Road. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 12 Uh-huh. She’s done this about— Have you taken classes at the university? Yes. When (Unintelligible), I think it was called “Continuing Education.” Uh-huh. So maybe four or five years ago. What was the university like when you arrived in 1953? Nothing, it didn’t exist. It wasn’t here? No, and I wish I could remember the building where they met for a while, and they had like, freshman classes for the university, then they built one building out at the university—I think it was the student union. And then it was all about (unintelligible) Uh-huh. You—I knew this before I met you that you would be a person with a particular sense of style, and it’s evident in your home and just, the person you are. What do you do about shopping here? Do you buy locally or did you send away? Or what? Oh no, I buy locally now. Well, we have some very good stores now, and the new shopping center looks very—Saks and whatnot. I think its Meadows—it’s gotten to the point where you can get almost anything that you want in Las Vegas. It couldn’t have been that way when you first came though? No, we had—all the shops were down on Fremont Street. And we had Penney’s, Ronzoni’s, (Unintelligible), and Penney’s and Sears, and that was about it. But then it worked out very nicely, (unintelligible) for our families. And it really was just a department store, and he knew all of us. And he would shop for us. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 13 In San Francisco? Or where? Oh, well, I don’t know well. Probably Los Angeles. Uh-huh. More than likely. And I can remember trying on a dress and saying, “Mory, I don’t like that. I don’t know that I like that dress.” And he’d say, “I’m trying to cover your knees.” (Laughs) You see, I was so tall, my goodness. (Laughs) But he was real interested in dance and theatre and quite a bit and so forth. Has he been here as long as you? Oh, longer. His mother opened Fanny’s which is closed now, they did it at the Strip, Downtown and then they opened one on the Strip. But just, oh, two or three years ago, they closed shop. And someone was telling me the other day that Mrs. Fanny was still here, and this kind of deal. Oh. And, oh, but before then—oh, the stories about the shop. Everyone could take a train and go to Los Angeles to do their shopping. That is what the old-timers—they did everything to shop here, and I didn’t make one trip until I needed to buy some furniture. You went to Los Angeles? Yes, I made it to Los Angeles. I did most of my furniture’s empty, because I only have a few of them now, because I’ve given them to my children. And then I needed a few extra upholstery pieces or something. There was some furniture stores, but nothing of any distinction. And Fanny’s was still here. That’s a nice store. UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 14 Well, she started out, I can’t remember, on Las Vegas Boulevard South and—if you go Fifth Street, just a block off of Fremont, and at that time, she had more or less knick-knacks and things, but not furniture. She didn’t have space for it. I remember I bought that table from (Unintelligible) when she was still (Unintelligible) and now she has all her room and beautiful furniture and china, and silver and everything. I needed some additional wood, which she ordered for me though. But then, this—Bertha’s would make for a very interesting story, on how things have progressed in Las Vegas. I think the name is so funny. It doesn’t sound like a fine store— No, well I suppose it’s her first name. Sure, but it’s a friendly name. It’s a small shop. (Tape one ends) When you came here in 1953, there couldn’t have been many restaurants to go out to dinner? No there were very few and we had the habit of going out to restaurants and taking our family. And so we didn’t have much of a choice except Farm’s Garden, the El Cortez, the Green Shack—that one is still here, and that is one of the oldest restaurants in Las Vegas. Where is that? It’s on Boulder Highway, which is now, I think they call it East Fremont or something like that. And, but really—very, very, limited selection. And then, remember when they opened the Dunes— Sultan’s Table? The Sultan’s Table at the Dunes, and so he mentioned it to me— UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 15 When was that? About when? Don’t get me on dates—(unintelligible) came in ’53, this must’ve been— Well when the Dunes— Sixty-two to sixty-five, whenever this opened up. That’s alright. What was that like? Oh, so, of course thought we would go into El Cortez—well, Sheldon had on jeans and I had on a sweater and skirt, and so we go into the Dunes. And then they had these violins playing from the center of the floor, and then they would walk over to the table and walk back, and so, just this gorgeous outlet. (Unintelligible) so I looked, but it had just opened— You hadn’t really heard about it then? Nobody had said it was so formal? Oh no, it was just—those were just two, three days after it opened. Oh. It probably the second night that it’d been open, and just, one of these gourmet restaurants, and so the children thoroughly enjoyed this. And they said they had never seen—everything they ate, somebody, another way they brought up the dish. There were so few people there that night, and only a few tables filled that they did get excellent service. And then the wine came, and you don’t drink in Las Vegas until you’re twenty-one, that’s what I said. And so the check-man said they had wine, and we said yes because we knew (unintelligible) but somehow they gave us the slips. They were allowed to drink wine at this age; they’d only had it at home on special occasions and so forth. They were teenagers then? Oh younger than teenagers, around ten and twelve. Where all have you lived in Las Vegas? What different parts of the city? UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 16 Well, when we came here, we rented a place in Hyde Park, which is a subdivision in the West Charleston area. How was that? How did you find housing? Was there much available? There was absolutely nothing available. And when my husband came over, and fortunate enough to find this house, that someone had bought our home and—one bought our home and another filed rent to it. And they make a concrete blocks and no loans—really can’t imagine anything quite like this. But that and driving thorough (unintelligible) so we moved to a place two or three—until we found this other house. And even then it wasn’t easy. I mean, you could have your choice of building, and I had gone through this experience in (Unintelligible) County, we built a house, and I didn’t speak a pleasant word for about a year after that. (Laughs) After that I said I’d live in anything before I go through this ordeal of building a house. (Laughs) (Laughs) It is a hassle. It really was. So where was the house that you finally bought? In the West Charleston area pyramid. There’s a small tract house that had been built from the cliff-made houses that a lot of em’ built in California. He was a des—architect at that time. And he –then he added on to that house, and then lived right there until seventy. You were instrumental in founding the “Home of the Good Shepherd” here? Yes, I was one of the charter members, and we started out with twenty women in Las Vegas to do this. And they had a very small home right there. They all had been in an enclosed chapel for the sisters out on Cleveland and I think eight or twelve girl in this town and they needed the building. And, so the (unintelligible) stations from about two sisters, back up and coming up here UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 17 before they even had this house. And Marie Laughton donated a certain amount of money to the home shelter. And this house was purchased and styled and so then, there were twenty women who took on this project of building, I can probably say now, (unintelligible). And it was quite a bit of money involved. So in organizing this (unintelligible), we wanted to represent all of Las Vegas. Not just the few people here. And, so, we really worked very hard at this to get this organized— Was the town divided? Oh well, yes, more or less. How so? Well, with the people who were actively involved on the Strip, well their husbands worked on the Strip as casino managers, or owners of the Strip. And then the turnaround, the people who were townspeople—that’s what they referred to themselves as then. Well that their husbands were involved in businesses and banking and attorneys and whatnot. And so we did get a very good group running together like this, and it was just really fantastic, what they accomplished. And we put on a one fundraising type of event—is this on?—on the Strip and then we had the opening—I’ve forgotten the name of it now. And, but just one activity after another. We would need two or three more and look at each other and think of how we can raise money. Thrift shops still in existence and they called it the “Treasure Shop,” but it generally didn’t know it was a thrift shop. And then we put on home tours. And then people would have conventions here, and he’d have to bus some people to show the homes, and you know, would sell the tickets. And then take them home to—he had posters in the homes, and then he had this others on the bus delivering the steel as it would go around. And then we also got that money from the Classroom Foundation which is in, located in Reno. I understand that this year, they’re going to give the UNLV University Libraries Ray Keith 18 rights to (Unintelligible) but they did make a substantial contribution. And I think we’ve got a hundred thousand or two-hundred thousand women from the building that started it all. And it’s still progressing very well. Most of the founders, the original numbers have gone or dropped out, but then there are others who come in and they commit and they very much— So when was that that you began to the building drive? How many years ago? About fifteen years. Thank you Mrs. Keith, it was a real pleasure. (Audio ends)