Guadalupe Meza Redmond interview, December 7, 2018: transcript

i AN INTERVIEW WITH GUADALUPE MEZA REDMOND An Oral History Conducted by Rodrigo Vazquez Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ©Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2018 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV – University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcribers: Kristin Hicks, Maribel Estrada Calderón, Nathalie Martinez, Rodrigo Vazquez, Elsa Lopez Editors and Project Assistants: Laurents Bañuelos-Benitez, Maribel Estrada Calderón, Monserrath Hernández, Elsa Lopez, Nathalie Martinez, Marcela Rodriquez-Campo, Rodrigo Vazquez iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a National Endowment for Humanities (NEH) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Latinx Voices of Southern Nevada. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Guadalupe Meza Redmond (far right) with Claytee White and Rodrigo Vazquez on December 7, 2018 at Culinary Union #226. Guadalupe Meza Redmond is a union organizer for the Culinary Union Local 226 in Las Vegas. Shae has lived in Nevada since 1982 and has held housekeeping positions at several hotels on and off the Strip. Born in 1964, she is the youngest of eight children born to Guadalupe Guzman de Meza and Alfonso Meza Flores. Her mother was raising the family Guanajuato, Mexico, and her father was working in the U.S. near Mexicali and would move one son at a time to the U.S. By 1982, her mother was unhappy with his methodology and insisted that the entire family move. With visas in hand, Guadalupe came with her family, who settled in Las Vegas, where one of her older brothers was now working. She arrived speaking no English and found work as a GRA, a guest room attendant at the Sundance (later known as Fitzgeralds) a downtown hotel. In this oral history, Guadalupe tells the story of how she and her mother became involved in the Culinary Union Local 226, was once arrested for the cause of labor rights, and continues her career. v TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Guadalupe Meza Redmond December 7, 2018 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Rodrigo Vazquez Preface…………………………………………………………………………………………..iv Talks about being born and raised in Mexico, Michoacán and Guanajuato; youngest of eight, mother [Guadalupe Guzman de Meza] was a housewife; father [Alfonso Meza Flores] lived in Mexicali and worked near San Diego. She left Mexico at age 17 when mother put a halt to father bringing one child at a time to the U.S. Recalls story of how the family moved to Las Vegas, in 1982; her personal reluctance to move to the U.S., not able to speak English…………..…. 1 – 5 Talks about language challenges, learning to speak English, watching the movie Crocodile Dundee; worked as guest room attendant (GRA) at Fitzgeralds [aka Sundance] casino/hotel [now the D]; family able to earn money; traveled by car; lived near Las Vegas Blvd. and Oakey streets. Recalls she and her mother coming upon a gathering, which was for the Culinary Union. Mother was a GRA at the Riviera, compares their work conditions; describes downtown Las Vegas of 1982, shopping, church and work at Sundance; mentions Geoconda Argüello-Kline, a Union leader; recalls mostly Latina workers; left in 1997…………………………………..6 – 11 Describes various jobs she did at Sundance in addition to GRA, for example, the uniform room and status board. Explains how and why she joined the Culinary Union #226; when she quit a porter job at Vegas World Casino and walked into the union hall. Importance of insurance benefit; experience with striking n the later 1980s; dealing with police, bedbugs, and poor treatment of children during strike……………………………………………………..….11 – 16 Shares food observations of when she first arrived in U.S. and the traditional recipes; which markets she prefers and how mainstream groceries have attracted the growing Latinx population. Talks about entertainment locally with her family; married to second husband since 2011; has three children and how until recently she hadn’t shared much about their Mexican heritage with them………………………………………………………………………………………..17 – 20 Reflects on traveling back to Mexico several years ago, how things have changed, and feeling strange; more about holidays and food traditions like posadas at Christmas time…………21 – 24 Tells about her mother, also a GRA, who did not want to retire, was very active with the union, part of the MGM fight for the sidewalk and excited about volunteering to be arrested for the cause. Describes the arrest experience, shared with her mother and lesson learned. Becomes a shop steward, Stratosphere and Aladdin hotels; impact of 9/11 attack on the U.S.; becoming union organizer and duties of being one. Station’s experience………………………….....25 – 32 vi 1 Today is December 17th, 2018. I am in the Culinary Union. I'm interviewing Guadalupe Meza Redmond. My name is Rodrigo Vazquez. In the room with me is... Claytee White. Tibein Tebemet. Guadalupe Meza Redmond. Can you spell your name for me, please? G-U-A-D-A-L-U-P-E, M-E-Z-A, R-E-D-M-O-N-D. Thank you. First, how do you identify? Do you identify as Latina or...? Latina. Where were you born? I was born in Mexico. What part of Mexico? I was born in La Piedad, Michoacán, but I was raised in Santa Ana Pacueco, Guanajuato. We are in a different state, but we're just divided by the river. That's all we are. That's where you were raised, in Guanajuato? Yes. What was your childhood like? Nice, beautiful. I am one of the youngest out of—my brothers and sister are many years older than me. Of course, it made my life nice, easy and beautiful. All together how many siblings do you have? All together we are eight, four boys and four girls. Your parents, what did they do? What did your dad do for work? My mother, when we were in Mexico, she was a housewife. My dad lived in Mexicali and 2 worked in the United States. It was a way to make money so he can support us. After that, my mother decided to come over here and follow my dad, along with us as well. Up until what age did you live in Mexico? How old were you? I was seventeen years old. You had school and everything over there, right? I had school over there. It was a decision of my parents to come over here, so I did not graduate high school over there, and then I came here at the age where everybody was graduating. What was school like over there—your elementary school and all? Tell me about your education there. Over there my mom always was very persistent to know the teachers. Every single teacher in the school knew my mom. We had to do very good. Yes, we had to do good. When you weren't in school, what would you do for fun with your friends? Born and grew up in Mexico is nothing like here. Our lives is a little bit different. We were not allowed to go outside at all. Any time we want to go out somewhere, it was either with my uncle, my mom's brother, which we grew up being very close to him and his kids, or it was vacation time, school vacation time. We either spend over his house, just with family, even though I grew up in a small town and we all see everybody as family. When you guys would get together, what kind of activities would you do? What would that be like? When the whole family get together, it was fun. Most of the time it was over my uncle's and my grandmother, my mom's mother's house. Family from different places in Mexico came over and had sort of like a family reunion. Or when we get together with only the immediate family—we also call my uncle and kids immediate family because where they go, we go, and where we go, 3 they go. Take us to the ocean. Take us to small little vacations and stuff like that. Was your uncle the only family member that lived in that town with you guys? No, but he was the older brother of my mom. My mom is like twenty-eight years younger than my uncle. My mom was like his little sister. You mentioned that you had cousins, right? Yes. You grew up with them as well? Yes. Were they the same age as you guys or a little bit older? A lot older. Mainly some of my cousins, I call them uncle. Why did your family decide to move to the U.S. ultimately? The reason why my mom decided to come over here is because my dad came to the United States when he was about fifteen years old. I'm not sure how old he was when he married my mom. But when he brought my older brother, then a few years later, he called my mom and asked her to sign all the papers and everything to bring my younger brother. When my dad asked for the third brother, my mom put a stop and she said, "No, you took two of my kids already and you're taking another one. Either you take the whole family or you're not taking no more kids." He was doing that because economic-wise he was able to bring one at a time because he did not want them to come over the way he came over. He came undocumented and they go through struggles. That's why he was bringing my brothers one by one. When my mom decided no more; you take us all or you don't take anybody; that was my third brother, so we all came here—not all because she left three kids, my older sister because was married and my younger brother and younger sister. But it was one of my brothers, myself, 4 my little sister who was one year old, and my mom. It was four of us and, plus, my dad that we all came to Las Vegas. My dad always lived in Mexicali and worked on this side in San Diego. I don't remember the part of where he—but he always worked near Mexico and lived in Mexico. When we all came here, that's when our ordeal started. It was hard. Your dad was already living here in Las Vegas? My dad was living in Mexicali. My older brother was living here. Actually, when we came here, I had a brother living in Stockton, which that was Samuel living in Stockton, and Ricardo was living here in Las Vegas. They both started talking. They had never done anything; they never worked. They had never been out of the town, only on vacations. The best place to take them is Las Vegas. My mom's decision was to come over and my older brother's decision was to arrive to Las Vegas. Do you remember that experience of coming over here? It was sad. You guys arrived here in Las Vegas, right? Yes, we arrived here in Las Vegas. It was sad and the reason why—I didn't thought about that until now. When I left Mexico, I did not want to come over. I always refused to come over. I had my visa when I was fifteen years old and I kept pushing it and pushing it. "I don't want to go; let's wait for this fiesta." A Mexican fiesta that we had. "And after that maybe we can go." I kept pushing it like that. When we came here, not knowing the language, not knowing anybody and being seventeen years old, it was hard. I remember when we first went to the office to turn in the papers that we had, the packages that we had so we can cross the border, the immigration guy told me, "That's the exit." He said whatever he said in English, which I don't know what he said, 5 but I understood exit. I had seen the sign and it says exit. I know that's where he pointed out, so that's where we go. I told my parents, "This is the exit and that's what he said, so we've got to go this way." My dad just started laughing. He said, "You're going to learn English right away." Six months later I was speaking English. I had to push myself very hard. Did your older brother speak English? They do. They do speak English, but less than me because they push themselves less than what I did. Does your dad speak English? Through his entire life, no, he did not speak English. After you learned English, did you take on that role helping your parents translate and helping your family out in that way? I did. I did. I did and that's why I learned more. I took the advantage of—when I got here in Vegas, we did not have Spanish TV. We did not have no Spanish radio station. We didn't have nothing. So I had to learn. I laugh a lot of times when I see words that I used to pronounce funny, like little words or something. Oh, I remember I used to read that this way. What year did you guys get here to Las Vegas? It was February 1982. What were your initial thoughts of Las Vegas when you first arrived? Really nothing. My mind was over in Mexico because I did want to come back. My parents told me six months. "Time you get your residence, you'll go back and you're going to be going back and come back and you're going to be like that." Okay, so I will do that. Since 1982 I've been in Mexico twice in my hometown, and some other tourists places, yes, I've been there. CLAYTEE: I want to know, how did you learn to speak English? 6 Reading, writing, watching TV. I sat down and watched TV daily the same program over and over and over, not knowing anything. You know the movie "Crocodile Dundee?" Yes. I watched that when I did not speak one word of English. I haven't seen it now that I can understand. Maybe one day I'll sit down and watch it. When I watched that movie, I understood somewhat and I'd repeat the words a million times until I remembered the word. When I started working at Fitzgeralds—Sundance back then; now is the D—that's when I found one of the supervisors and she started teaching me. The first word that I learned with her—and she gave me this little tip—it was, "You need to learn to ask, what is this? in English." I said, "Okay. Again." And she'd repeat it. Then every single little box that I seen—I worked in housekeeping—I wrote down, "What is this?" I would look inside what was that and I said, "Okay, this is soap." So I write down swap, how you spell it. I said, "Okay, this is what it is." Then I look for many things. I put my goal, so many words a month, because I felt like I was not able to learn that fast. That's how I did. When a family comes together, what kind of transportation do you use? Car. You mean when we first came here? Yes. My brother had a car. That was when the hard part came. I came from a family that I was used to getting everything. I am one of the youngest. My uncles and my cousins were truck drivers. They used to make very good money. Some of them are gone and some are still alive. My dad was working here and my brothers were working here. One of my brothers who was in Mexico was working with Ford. They all was making okay money. I was coming with a family that they spoiled us, the youngest ones. When I came here to United States, I see that, okay, we have a car, 7 but we don't have nothing. I just brought from Mexico six pairs of pants thinking that I was going to go back quick. We don't have nothing. Where did you live? We lived nearby here [the location of the Culinary Union #226]. In 1982, we arrived in Santa Paula. When you pass Las Vegas Boulevard, Oakey and Santa Paula, very close by here, very, very close. Curiosity brought my mom and myself to the union. Tell me about your first approach to the union. Actually, it was because we always saw the people in a line. Coming from a small town, when we see something like that it's because somebody passed away. My mom is very religious. She started praying every time she saw those people here. We asked my brother, "What's over there?" He said, "It's the union. That's where you guys need to go and work." "But how are we going to do it? We do not speak the language." "Just go and take a look." We did. Those people were making the line to come and pay their dues; that's what my mom and myself did when we started working in a casino and they were not taking the union dues from payroll. That's the first experience. We just came and looked. We just walked around and looked at everybody, what they were doing and stuff. Okay, now we know it's the union. It wasn't that quick, but a few years later I became a union member. That's when I started working at the Sundance. Soon after that it became Fitzgeralds. What was your first job at Sundance? GRA. Guest room attendant. Guest room attendant, yes, was a GRA. How many rooms did you have to clean back in 1982? 8 Seventeen. Seventeen rooms. There was no housekeeping language, so we had to do it. Then we went down for sixteen rooms. But the companies involved people; we do not have experience over anything and we went back up with the seventeen rooms. Did your mom have the same job? Yes. But she started working at the Riviera. That's where she worked. That's where she retired. What was the difference between working on the Strip and working downtown? I really didn't see any difference. She was doing seventeen rooms as well. The money was the difference. How? She made a little bit more money than I did. Actually for us, we hardly made tips. Every blue moon she would make a little bit more than I did in downtown. Describe downtown to me in 1982. It was beautiful. You used to drive on Fremont Street. I really liked it because over in my hometown we have La Plaza; we have that and we go over there and walk around and see everybody. But right here it was not walking around, it was driving around. Drive and go on Fremont Street and then they come back on Main Street and maybe go all the way to the Strip and come back. That's all we did. Me and my brother, not knowing anybody, just was happy. Hey, this is like our hometown. We liked it. That part; we loved that. Of course, it changed a lot as more for adults than kids. But back in that time it was great. Where did you go shopping? Boulevard Mall. There was another store; Zodi's, I think that was the name. Woolworth. Those two stores, they were my favorite stores. Mainly it was Boulevard Mall. Were there grocery stores where you could get products that you were accustomed to eating? 9 Only one store, which the name was Brothers Market. Where was that? That store was where Albertsons is at right now on Charleston and Bruce. Then it changed the name to Lucky’s and then it went to Albertsons. Actually, right there where the Swap Meet is at right now; that's where Woolworth was. What about church? Catholic Church. Where did you go? We went to Saint Anne's, Maryland Parkway and St. Louis. Tell me more about the work. Tell me about Sundance. Sundance, it was a great experience out there. It was a great experience once I was learning English. Another great experience, I met one of our union leaders, which is Geo, Geoconda Argüello-Kline. I met her there. I think she was working there before I did. I don't remember that part. Very strong leader, very strong. She taught us a lot there. When I started working there, I already had my three kids. Oh, boy, she organizes so very good, so very good. How did she do it? Talking one by one, and not only talking one by one, showing facts. I had an experience with her and I don't know if she remembers this. But I was talking to one of my coworkers, a house person. I was done with my rooms and he was about to be done. The only GRA she was waiting for was Geo. Then he said, "Let's play cards." We sat down and played cards. Geo came out of that elevator. She was looking at us, just standing up, and she goes, "What are you guys doing?" "Playing cards." "Hmm. Since what time you finished?" "Oh, about this time." I don't remember the time that I told her, but I remember her asking what time we finished. Then she asked Larry, 10 "Did you finish?" "Yes. I'm just waiting for you to finish." "Okay." Then she started telling us, "If the company come and see you sitting down, what do you think the company is going to think? You're working hourly. You're not working by rooms or by how many GRAs you clean up the carts. You work hourly." She did not tell us get up and go to work. She didn't. She didn't need to do that because we got up like this and went to work. But she was right. But you had already finished. I went to help her out and went to help somebody else. When she was in the last room and she still had a little bit of time, she said, "Look, I already finished, but I am not going to the locker room. I am not going to show the company that I can do more rooms." That's what you need to show the company. "I'm not going to show the company that I can do for rooms. This little bit of time that I have left is to load my cart." She taught me that well. I never finished early any more in my life. In 1982, were there lots of African-American women working as GRAs as well? You know what? I don't remember that many. Only I remember Lee. She was an African-American lady. She is the one who taught me how to ask; all of that. I learned a lot of English with her, a lot. I was like ninety-nine pounds and she called me fat because she used to hear one of my cousins call me fat, gorda. She asked, "What is that? Why does she always call you like that?" Because I saw Lee in a store one time and my cousin was there. When my cousin saw me, she said, "Gorda." Then I turned around and she said, "What is that?" I said, "It's like she's calling me fat." "Oh, really, you're fat?" She started calling me fat. She was one of them. Janice Williams was there, too, but I don't remember any—Miss Willie, I remember her now. Miss Willie, she was there, too. Those three I remember very good that they were there. 11 There were Latinos. We all were mixed. It wasn't many white women, but there were some in there. Probably right now if I keep talking I will remember more, but I can't remember more than them three. That's wonderful. As the company went from the Sundance to the Fitzgerald to the D, could you tell my difference? I never did work at the D, but my husband did. When I left there, it was 1997. When you left the Fitzgerald? Yes, 1997. But my husband was there. Then he got fired, so he didn't work there no more. He was a non-union position, so it was quit and go. Did you always work as a GRA the entire time you were with the Sundance and the Fitzgerald? No. I was GRA, slash, status board, uniform room. What is status board? Status board is the housekeeping operator, per se. Answering the phone to the GRAs, to the guests, to the casino porters, to whoever needs a cleanup. They always call there so they can have someone to go and clean up. Does that mean you had an office? Yes. It was an office, but it was not an office where you're just there by yourself. It's an office where everybody walked in and walked out. Then from there you went to uniform room. What was that like? I like it because I get to see all my coworkers when they come in or when they leave. Describe the work. The work was just receiving the uniforms when they come from the laundry, putting them up and 12 put them in order. When you get to know what time each employee is coming in and you know exactly what time they're coming in and what size they have, you already have all their uniforms there, and they like that because they know we don't have to run and get their uniform. I'm talking about the old ways. Now they have that thing that it goes around; you just slide your card and the door just opens up. But back then it was run and pick it up and give it to them, run, pick up the uniform and hand it out to them. Filling out their slip that they turned in the uniform or they got one. It was about two years before you joined the union [Culinary Union #226]. Tell me about that and how that happened. Before I joined the union, I had my first marriage. I worked and I worked in union places, but didn't stay long enough to get the taste of the union place. Actually, I would just go and work to cover for somebody's vacation, like two weeks here and three weeks there. Then I stopped with that. I stayed a little longer at the Hacienda hotel, which is the Mandalay Bay right now. I stayed there for close to a year, but then I left because I gave birth to my son. Then I got out. I just stayed home for a while. Then I had my youngest daughter and stayed with them for a while until I went to the Sundance, which my daughter was exactly seven months old when I started working out there. All the time I worked at Sundance and Fitzgeralds, it was good. I met a lot of people. I had the chance to learn English and I had the chance to know that if I want, I can succeed at something that I want. Describe to me why and how you became a union member. I became a union member, first of all, because I already knew that if you work in a hotel—and that's something that my older brother told me—if you work in a hotel, you better pay your union 13 dues because if you're working in the union house, you have to be a union member, and the only way to be a union member—that's how he told me, right?—is paying your union dues; that's a real union member. That's how I became a union member; it was when I went to Sundance. Actually, I came here. I was working I remember at the Vegas World Casino. I was working there as a casino porter. I went to apply for a GRA and they told me, "Go as a casino porter. You're just going to stay there the two weeks that you're going to cover the lady and then you come back up here." I didn't like the casino porter. Then I went to housekeeping and I told them, "Are you going to move me over here because I've been there for a month and you haven't moved me?" They said, "Well, actually your supervisor likes your job and maybe we're going to keep you there." And I said, "I'm leaving right now. I'm quitting. I don't need to stay here." And I left. I just got out of there and left. What was the work of a casino porter? I didn't like it because with my family, nobody smokes or drinks or nothing. With that environment every day I was filling like—with the smoke I was feeling dizzy and all that stuff and I said, "I don't need to take all that." It was too much for me. That is cleaning on the floor of the casino. Yes. Cleaning ashtrays and all kinds of things. Yes, yes. I don't remember exactly if it was keno or it was the racing tracks where they go put bets or whatever. I don't remember that part. But I remember TVs, a lot of people and a lot of chairs. Since they didn't move me back to where I want to be at, I left. The same day I came back. I went home and my kids' father was sleeping. When I was there, he said, "Oh, you didn't went to work today?" I said, "I did but I quit." "And why is that?" 14 I said, "Because they didn't want to put me up in a hotel. I'm not there to stay in the casino. I don't want to be in a casino." He said, "I told you don't go to work; stay at home." I said, "No, I don't want to stay home." So I came here to the union hall. They were sending people to work because the casinos need some people. I remember this one lady said, "Oh, no, I do not want to go to downtown. I do not want to go work." I said, "I'll go. I'll go." I don't know where this hotel is at. I've been in downtown, but I never pay attention where is each hotel and casino. I went back home and told my husband back at that time, I said, "They sent me to this place. Do you know where this place is at?" He said, "In downtown." I said, "Okay, take me over there." At that time, I didn't drive. He took me out there. I had the job. The same day that I quit over there, I got a job, so it was good. Since then I've just been a union member, which it was 1986. It was January the 20th of 1986. I remember the exact date because I remember my daughter turned seven months old that day. I said, "I guess the twentieth is my lucky number." Since then I've just been a union member. To really know what we have is when we're close to lose it. What do you have? My insurance. My insurance. My kids' father worked in a place where he processed vegetables and he was working contracts or whatever he was doing, so he didn't have insurance. I knew working in there I was getting good insurance. I wasn't thinking about my retirement. I was young. How old I was? Twenty, twenty-one years old; something like that. I wasn't thinking about retirement at all. My son was born sick. He had pneumonia when he was born. I caused that. I ate a lot of ice and he always was shaking in my stomach. He was cold. When he was born he was born with pneumonia. He also developed epilepsy. He developed that when he was like a 15 year or something old. So I was working out there and when we were close to losing our insurance and we started fighting for it, Geo told me...She talked to every single mother at first. Every single one of us that had kids, she started talking to us. That's when I really realize, oh, great, if we don't fight for it, we're going to lose this. I am the only one who was giving him good insurance. That's when we really realized what we have and that's when we fight for it. When you say "fight for it," did you ever have to go out on strike or do any kind of active...? Yes, we did. We did at the late eighties. I don't want to say the year exact. I think it was 1984, probably. No, 1984, I was not a union member yet and that's the year when my son was born. That's when that big, big strike came out that all the casinos came out. Probably it was about '89 or something like that. We had to do the work and walk. We worked eight hours and then we had to walk four hours and we did it. How many hours do you think you had to walk? Four hours. It was like a twelve-hour workday. Yes, four hours. Not only that, my kids' father worked on swing shift and I worked on day shift, so he would drop off the kids. And me not driving, I had to catch two buses. After I'm done with a twelve-hour day, I had to catch the buses, go home, cook, feed the kids, get them ready to school. They did the homework right there on the corner of the hotel. All of us that we did that, we all were aunties, moms, even grandmas. A lot of times my mom came and walked out here. She was working at the Riviera and she came and supported because she knew I was working there. She always supported; anywhere they have anything, she had to be there and she was there. 16 How long did you do the work and walk? For about six months. Was it worth it? It was. Every step. Every step of the way, it was, it was. That's actually when I understood insurance, not thinking about pension or anything else. Pension I thought about after I passed 40. I said, "Oh, I'm glad I'm a union member and I have my pension." Then we had hard times. The police wasn't nice. They were not nice with all of us there. It was even hard that we had to let the guests know, "Hey, you're sleeping in the hotel and you have bedbugs." The next day we had to clean up three times better than the day before. Because we wanted to win, right? We had to do everything that was in our hands. But the next day that we were there and the guests just see us, some of them made the comment of, "You guys are doing the right thing. We're already here, but you guys are doing the right thing." Tell me about the police, the treatment. The police, they weren't like now that they come up and talk to you and try to solve the things or, "Hey, we have to go straight," or do whatever. Back then it was push and trip, mainly the men. Some of them, arrest them, for any little thing. And with our kids they weren't all that nice. All the kids weren't standing up straight and sitting down. If one of the police see them, they go, "Go back to where you're at," with an attitude. That's what I'm mainly saying. But we all knew the ones who were walking there. It didn't need to be my kid, but if one of our kids was trying to get tired standing up right to the wall, "Hey, go back and stay there or you want to come on the line with us and walk here." Then if they say, "Yes, I need to walk a little bit," okay. "Time we see 17 your mommy over here, then you go with her." Okay. We all did that. We all became very close and watching all of our kids. Wi