Interview with Anna (Anne) Welsh, June 23, 2004

Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with Anne Welsh June 23, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada Interview Conducted By Suzanne Becker © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Anne Welsh June 23, 2004 Conducted by Suzanne Becker Table of Contents Introduction: memories of grandmother, Anna Roberts Parks, observation of above- ground tests from Las Vegas, NV home, local feelings about the Nevada Test Site in the 1950s, husband’s childhood memory of measuring radiation in Boulder City children 1 Family history, education, marriage and family, description of family property in early Las Vegas 4 Description of Las Vegas during grandmother’s era, from 1911, and during her own childhood 9 Recounts Army life with husband Myron Welsh ( 1962- 1965) 11 Involvement with church and community, and concern with social issues ( 1980s) 12 First visit to the NTS, evolution into activist for nonviolence, involvement with Nevada Desert Experience ( NDE) and Pace e Bene 13 Work as secretary and teacher for St. Viator Catholic Church 19 Involvement in NTS protest movement 20 Concerns when son David Welsh began work at the NTS 24 Bringing of her children in her to test site protests 26 Remembering her first arrest and interaction with law enforcement, details of arrest at NTS 27 People’s assumption that protesters were communists 32 Children’s involvement in social activism 35 Evolution of thought re: the Roman Catholic Church and activism 37 Influence of Roman Catholic faith and teaching on ideas of social justice 40 Work with antinuclear movement: volunteering, housing protesters, participating in Lenten Desert Experience ( LDE) 41 Children: their travels and life experiences 43 Involvement with activist women’s groups 45 Experience of being an older activist 46 Concerns about current state of affairs, sense of conflict about the NTS in re: jobs and local economy vs. weapons and radiation effects, and the isolation of groups 48 Conclusion: relationship of weapons testing to devastation of soldiers returning from war, the significance of current remilitarization, changing political climate, and divisions within country and society 52 Welsh_ A_ 06232004_ TOC_ ARCH. doc UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Anne Welsh June 23, 2004 in Las Vegas, NV Conducted by Suzanne Becker [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disk 1. Anne Welsh: There were select groups of people who maybe expressed an interest, either signed up or something, and they were notified that if they would come out on such and such a day to meet— Suzanne Becker: So this is when the test site first— When they were doing the above ground testing. And you say your grandmother [ Anna Roberts Parks] was invited out to see that? She went out. How did she get that type of invitation? She must’ve elicited an interest, or they may have been trying to promote it and because she had been a businesswoman and was somewhat known in the town— she started Palm Funeral Home. She was a mortician, the only woman. And she came here in 1911 and started Palm Funeral Home in 1925. So that was a cool thing that she got to do it. But then— Did you talk to her about it? Does she have memories or recollections of that? Well, she’s gone now. And at that time I was a kid and just about anything she did was cool. She was a major rock hound. She was probably more interested into the land part of it, what it did to the earth and stuff. It was very impressive. I think everybody who went and— let’s see, she was born in 1888 so this would’ve been in the 1950s, maybe the very late 1940s. No, we started testing in the 1950s, yes. So she was not working anymore I don’t think. She sold that in 1955. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 But I think it was prominent people that were invited. I mean unless you were really persevering I don’t think just an ordinary person could go out there. So it was sort of like a grand opening, so to speak, PR— Yes, they just wanted them to see it. Awesome. I lived on First Street in this town, 619 South First Street, and my window was on the street, from my bedroom, and across the street were homes, some houses. But there was a clear view and then the next— on that block First and then became Main and on Main it was the ice house. Are you familiar with the ice house? Yes. It’s now a big bar. Well, it’s not exactly in the very same location, they call it— yes. The ice house was across the two streets, two blocks over from my bedroom window. And this was a truck stop so it was flat. And one morning, I don’t know what woke me up, but I got up and I had Venetian blinds and I either lifted them back or pulled them up, and there was an explosion, big bright light, and then the mushroom cloud came. I was a kid and I remember it was impressive then too as I go, whoa! Did you have any concept of what it was or what they were doing? Only that it was cool. Just because of the huge light and then the cloud. Yes, and just everything. It was cool to have that. They had the atomic drinks and the hairdos and— they were going on and I wasn’t paying that much attention but looking back they show you, this is what was the thing. So what was the feeling around town about this? When it was open ( the NTS) there was sort of a sense of pride or people were excited about it? Yes. Pride, and it was very special. This powerful thing that was so awesome, we owned it, not realizing what we owned unfortunately. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 Do you remember what you were told about it, especially because you were a kid? Do you remember how they explained it to you or—? I went to Fifth Street Grammar School and I think we must’ve talked about it. You know they say that they talked about duck- and- cover. I honestly don’t remember that. I honestly don’t remember that happened, though it might have been. It just was so much a part of school things that it was just something you did. Did you have drills? Only fire drills that I recall. But my husband lived in Boulder City from the second grade on through high school. And out there— this is long after we were married, and I was active in this, and he said, When I was in second grade, I think— he must have moved there in the second grade, or maybe first, but I think he said, In the second grade, we all got this little badge to wear and we had to wear it for a week or two weeks or something, and at the end if we were able to turn that back in, we got a pencil. So they wore these little badges on their shirts and then after the period of time was up, then they got a pencil. Well, they were measuring radioactivity in Boulder City. So people knew something had to be— [ 00: 05: 00] So they put these badges on the kids and then what the badges picked up registered something and then they were able— Yes, whatever was in the air, because kids are outside all the time. So they didn’t mention that part to them. Never told them, no. They may have said that they were measuring something but when he talked about it later, when he was telling me, he said clearly they were measuring that. He said, But you know we all wanted that pencil, and so we were really good about wearing our little badge. It’s just kind of a sickening thought, that that would go on. I gave a little speech when I got involved with the test site. I was super enthusiastic and I told that story. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 Because we even then, and I think you’ve heard this, the hotels made sure there was nothing blowing their direction, so it all went to the Downwinders in Utah. And I’ve gone to the university and heard a mother speak who lost— I think she lost her little girl, a two- year- old, and numerous members of her family and friends and neighbors and everything. It’s just— it’s inconceivable that we were doing that and not telling anybody about it. As time goes by we find out all kinds of things that they’re not telling us. So…. So your family has been here a long time then. Yes. My grandmother [ Anna Roberts Parks] was basically a pioneer to the city. And she came here when? In 1911 I think she was whatever age that would make her, from 1888. I think she was around seventeen, is that right? Twenty- five or so. I don’t think she was— was she that old? Ninety- eight. Oh maybe. Well anyway, she came with my grandfather. They were business partners, I guess. There’s a video out that the museum has put out. The Southern Nevada Museum on Boulder Highway? They started that with her collection. And if you’d like I have a video I can let you— I’ll loan it to you and then you can drop it back by when you’re done. It tells about her beginning in life and everything. Anyway, she came here and she was just involved with the starting up, mining, and then they married. I have her marriage certificate in there on my wall. And then they— I forget what they started now. I can’t think of the name of it. We did this in like 2000 and we were just— I was just full of all the information. Anyway, they married and then they were in business here and he— they got a divorce in 1925. Unheard of for the time. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 Yes, and the things were closed, we were told, sealed. One daughter, my mother. And it was really contentious, and he actually left town afterwards because it was so— I’m guessing it was very scandalous. But she was her own detective for her side. She went around and went to California and found out that the lady he was with was signing her name in Macy’s. So it’s very interesting. But anyway, that was she, my grandmother, and a very busy lady and very activist in a lot of things. Sounds like it. Yes, rock hound, belonged to a group here called the Clark County Gem Collectors. And so I come by it naturally, being involved in things. And this where we’re sitting used to be 160 acres. Really! So this whole area was theirs. Yes, all of Paradise Crest and Oak Crest was hers. She homesteaded it. You live on it for seven years and prove up on the property, you have to improve it. So the gentleman lived out here for her and took care of it. We call this the Ranch. She had rabbits chickens, ducks and turkeys. I think that was all. Quail. She loved quail. And the curve in Sandhill Road was her doing. She had been drilling for a well— one which was just the other side of this wall, it was dry, and another place— and when they finished drilling there would be this quite large hole that was quite deep. I was really admonished not to go near that. I’m sure. Yes, that was one of the things. But Frank LeLeota lived out here, first in a tent; when you go to the Southern Nevada Museum you’ll see there’s a tent out there with a guy sleeping in it. It was like that. It wasn’t the one but— and then our little homestead house that he ultimately moved in is out there. Is that the house out front when you first pull in? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 [ 00: 10: 00] The small one. The little one. It’s like a tiny little one, twelve by twelve or ten by ten. The other house is a duplex she bought from Nellis Air Force Base. So Frank lived out here and she homesteaded all this. So when she was digging that well, she found one, it worked— then the road was coming through. Now if the road had kept coming it would have come right through the property this way [ indicating direction]. So she went out when they were surveying, with a gun, I think it was a shotgun. They said rifle in the video but I don’t know. I do honestly think it was a shotgun, as I remember being told. And she just said, You can’t come through here. And so the surveyor said, Well— I guess he said, OK. And I heard that story all my childhood. And when I grew up— my husband, we came back from Germany, he had been in the Army— I was at a party. He was working for the water district. And there was a guy there that was related to a friend of mine from high school and we got to talking about my grandmother and stuff and I told that story and I said, You know, I mean you hear those things but I really don’t know. And this guy’s name is [ Richard] Barozzi. He worked at the water district for a long time. He may even be gone. He was laughing and said, I want to tell you something. That’s the God’s truth. Because he said, I was nineteen years old and I was the assistant to the surveyor. And he said, And I was standing behind him. Because she did indeed have a gun and she did indeed tell us, ‘ You can’t come through here.’ So we didn’t. So when you see all the maps of Las Vegas coming off of Boulder Highway, you looking at Sandhill and it goes like this [ indicating direction]. And that’s why. That’s amazing. Yes, it is amazing. So I don’t know. Let me think. I grew up here. I went to Gorman High School. Went off to university, Nevada, Reno, where I met my husband. We went overseas and when we came back we had— we went with one child and we came home with three— we proceeded to have five more, so we have eight children. They all grew up— we did five years UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 over off of Desert Inn and Sandhill and then my mother gave each of my brothers— I have two brothers, younger, Michael and Jim. She gave each of us five acres out there. She had by then sold to Collins Brothers which you see all the homes. And she gave each of us five acres and we took my— Myron and I took my five acres and sold some back to Collins, let him keep it. And he built our house for a minimum amount, and we stayed— we’re on an acre here. And my brother Jim’s was next door, that’s another acre; Michael sold his so he doesn’t have any here. And we’ve grown up out here with these two acres, which has been just wonderful. Oh, for Las Vegas, I bet. Yes, it’s a little nice oasis. So your grandmother had— this was 160 acres and this is where your mother grew up in this property— No, this was all just scrub. There wasn’t anything from here to the Boulder Highway. Nothing. It was a dirt road. And we would actually come onto the property at the corner of Sandhill and Flamingo. It wasn’t Flamingo then, but the 7- 11 there. You just cut across that intersection and then you’d hang a little bit of a right and we came on diagonal to the property. This is Sandhill now. We would come onto the property here [ pointing to map]. And Frank lived over in those trees and that little cabin was further over. It was over on Jimmy’s property, and when Jimmy sold it we rolled it over here because we didn’t want it to go with the…. So there wasn’t anything out here. Nothing. The first house that was built that I recall was the one— well, you wouldn’t even know, but it’s over by the high school, and it just kind of— here was Boulder Highway and you turned off and you went down Sandhill and here was a house right here [ indicating on map], but I was twelve then, and then you came to the property. And out here, what is it, Sahara, UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 Flamingo— no, Sahara, Desert Inn, Flamingo, Tropicana. They all had different names then. People would know. I forget that stuff. Now the other thing. You saw these big trees out in front of our house? Well, if you were to go back to some pictorial history of Las Vegas, they actually planted these athol trees, or they call them salt cedar? They actually planted a line of them, and these trees here would match up [ 00: 15: 00] with trees all the way down to at least Russell Road and then all the way to Boulder Highway, as a windbreak. So they were just a line of trees to keep the— Yes, they just kind of went along because the wind here. We have bad winds. Now things are kind of tamped down, but in those days— I read an article, and I think it’s in some of the stuff that Anna left me, a little article— this guy came, he was some sort of an engineer or something. And he said— this is way early in Vegas’s history— No, this place will just shift and shift and go away. You’ll never be able to do anything here because the winds come and this place that you’re sitting on was full of sand dunes. When I was a kid and we came out, the sand dunes were over along over there [ pointing out direction], maybe three of them, big ones. We had one horse. We could ride Topper out and then we’d play on these sand dunes, roll down them. Really! Yes. This whole area? Not the whole area. But just this particular— UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 Because there were three, and there used to be sand dunes if you go south over by Sunset Park, a little south there, there might be something there, and there were some further out, but now as the growth comes they get rid of them. But you know wonderful. Sandhill— So you’ve really seen this place change. Oh yes, absolutely. I mean it’s not the same. Did you ever expect it to be like this? No, never. If I’d known, I’d have gone south and bought anything I could. In fact my grandmother looked at the property where the Excalibur sits. She said it was too far out of town. She didn’t think she wanted— You’re kidding! No. And yes, she just— none of us did. Yes, how would you know? I don’t think when you grow up here you think of it like the people who move here and go, oh my, look at this. So…. Yes, absolutely. So you remember sort of the development of the Strip then too. Oh yes. By the time I was in high school, which was 1955 through 1959, you could just go out to the lounge shows, just walk in and— I couldn’t have a drink but you could go in there. I don’t even think you had to be twenty- one, but you could just get a non- alcoholic. You could go in your bathing suit. I mean it was so informal. And that was the Sahara. The El Rancho was there. That was a cool place, the El Rancho. They had Easter egg hunts every year. It was just an expanse of green lawn. It was so cool. And you could go out there if you were real cool and you could swim. You just kind of walked in like you owned the place and you know people didn’t really say anything. I remember my brother— because a swimming pool in those days was just an UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 ideal dream. Oh my gosh, to have a swimming pool. My brother had a paper route on the Strip and I’d go with him some mornings, especially in the summer because it was so nice here in the early mornings in the summer, and after we’d finish there was this one motel that we would get in the water like seven o’clock in the morning. Once we got thrown out, but a few times we just… I mean the excitement of it. You probably didn’t swim more than ten minutes because you were so worried. But having a pool. And when the Dula went in— Dula Center down there on Bonanza and Fifth Street, which is Las Vegas Boulevard— that was so wonderful, that great big pool? And I can remember, we’d get taken there, get dropped off by my dad— we had a truck. He’d drop us off and we’d swim all afternoon and of course then you get hungry and there was never a lot of money so we’d make our way home. We would actually come home barefoot from— this is Bonanza and I lived on First Street. And we would run from shade spot to shade spot down across Fremont Street, probably it went over to Second, maybe First, because my grandmother still lived— she lived at First and Carson. That’s where the first Palm Funeral Home was. So, six blocks down First Street was where I lived, where my mom and dad lived. So sometimes we’d stop by there. But yes, the growth in this town is phenomenal and it doesn’t make me happy, really. I mean it was nice there for a while but now Reno is about how we were maybe fifteen to seventeen years ago. Now it’s insane. I mean, there’s homes and, so…. Yes. So going back to something that you were talking about earlier, which was sort of your early impressions of the test site when you were a kid. I’m just curious about some of your memories or your thoughts of that. I know we talked about it a little bit but do you remember your family talking about it at all, or was it a big deal like amongst your friends? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 [ 00: 20: 00] No. I must have seen pictures of that wind blowing when they show— they drop it and then they have the fake homes and stuff. I must have seen photos of that at some point in time as a kid. Maybe not because then I saw so much later on. And we weren’t a political family like mine is now. But Anna, my grandmother, was involved in things like that so I was aware of stuff. But again, in those days it was just a very cool thing to have, and the Army or any of the services could do no wrong, they were protecting us. In a way we were just— not just the kids but everybody. We just didn’t know, had no idea. So do you remember when you became aware of all this? Yes. When I came home from Germany and had been in the Army for three years— You were in the Army? No, Myron. Myron was. We were stationed in Frankfurt, Germany. When was that? We went over in January of 1962 and we came home in December of 1965. And we were glad to be done with the service, and some things happened over there that I felt were just— I just didn’t want to be government stuff anymore. I think if you’re in it a little while— I remember once Kennedy was coming to view Frankfurt and— Myron was with the 317th Engineer Battalion. So he was an engineer? Yes, he’s an engineer. And he [ Kennedy] wasn’t even going to put down but he was coming close to wherever we were, and they painted the ground green so that it would look like grass. And it was all this kind of preparation going on so everything— For Kennedy. Yes. And we lived in Army quarters and— there were two buildings that faced each other. Myron was an officer— which was very nice. So there were three stories and the top story on the end UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 had four bedrooms and two baths, or maybe only one. Anyway, they fixed up these quarters and then they went— that’s where he [ Kennedy] saw, supposedly, how the people are living. Well, we weren’t living bad at all, but— But not like they were displaying to him. Yes, it was so contrived, to me. I kept saying— of course I wasn’t very quick then and I would say, That’s not true. That’s a lie. Why would they do that? Well, this is how they did everything then. So anyway, with that little background, then I came home and I started having my children, more children, and we got really involved with the Church. But I was always— social issues have always been important. My grandmother was really a good helper around town. I remember going with her to bring eggs to the sisters. There was an Episcopal church on Third and Carson and we’d bring eggs from out here. Those were the Episcopal nuns. And then the Catholic sisters lived over off of Eighth Street and she often was bringing things to them. So I was aware of that with my connection with her. So there was always sort of this community involvement. Yes. You helped— right. The Church was pretty open about things then. I went to a meeting at the library for Greenpeace, and they were talking about the whales and everything, and then they slid over and started talking about the test site. I had no idea. And as I recall that was my first eye- opener from when I was a kid. This was really cool, to, this is not a good idea. And this is in the 1970s, late 1970s? This was in the early 1980s. Early 1980s. OK. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 Right. Because I remember taking the kids. We were really solid churchgoers then. I remember not going to church that weekend and on that Sunday, and I think it was Palm Sunday, so it may have been 1986. Somewhere between 1985 and 1986 or 1987. And as a family we went out. We sat around a little— now it’s long gone but it was just— it wasn’t even a campfire, I don’t think, but they had brought logs and they were sitting like this [ demonstrating] and— You went out to the test site? Yes, to the entrance there, with just a handful of other people. I took my kids and by then we— well, Danny came in 1976, so we did have everybody. I think we must’ve taken them all. And then we just prayed and talked about it and said we didn’t think this was a good [ 00: 25: 00] idea and kind of were a presence. And then I started going more regularly, and as I did, then you go to meetings, people talk about things. That’s when NDE [ Nevada Desert Experience] was coming along and the Franciscans. And I would say from 1988 till just a couple of years ago, there was a peak there. There were thousands of people. Oh my gosh, it was just tremendous. And there was this city, well, kind of looked like a hippie city because you’re living in the desert. It’s very hot out there in August, July. It’s awful. And now it’s changed a lot. It’s so modern now. When we went we were just kind of making do. There were no Porta- Potties or anything like that. But as the events grew, then they got a little more sophisticated, which was good. But I don’t know people still do even stay out there a week ahead or not. I believe that they do. It’s just not as— it really seems like the time frame that you’re talking about was a peak time. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 Oh yes, it was amazing. And we were just— people would come from all over and they would— it’s such an interesting thing because you figure it’s right here. I mean it’s sixty miles from our house and we can drive to it. People would come from all over the world literally and they were so concerned and they’d say, What are we doing? This is not a good thing. Well, it’s sort of like being a member of the Mafia as a kid. You just don’t realize. That’s a good analogy. Interesting. And then when you get— because Uncle So- and- So is just the best guy to you. Of course he assassinates people periodically over the week but none of that is touched by you. So here we were and people would say, What do you think of it? And you’d say, I’m just finding out. I had no idea it was so bad. What was it at the meeting opened your eyes? Literally I was worried about the whales, that we needed to look after the whales because they were going to be extinct and we were doing all these dreadful things. Then as the conversation moved along the man who was talking, or the woman— I think there were a couple of people there, as they were talking, then they moved over to, here’s something else that’s going on that isn’t good for any of us. The whales, the stuff that’s emitting, what it’s doing. And of course [ as] a young woman with all these children, I was just dumbfounded. So then I started reading and learning about Hiroshima and actually what happened to those people and how it was done, and then we did it a second time to make sure they got the message and those kind of things. I’m a super activist now for nonviolence. I show up at the federal building on Thursday mornings from eight to nine. And prewar. We were there before the war not to go on and now we’re just a presence that this is a bad, bad idea. So all of that. One thing leads to the other and I think I’m not unique in that you go worrying about some seemingly— not a big deal but we should be connected— we should be concerned about it, and it opens you to, oh yes, well UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 guess what? And then it opens to pretty soon you’re thinking, holy cow! So then I— and I also talk to my kids, always have talked to my kids— there was a movie out way back then. There’s one out now called The Day After Tomorrow but I think this was called something like The Day After. It could have been. And it was a nuclear explosion and what had happened. And I made them all— big hype on the news— and we all sat in there and watched it. I don’t know, I think David was away at college by then, but I had him watching it in Colorado. He was in Boulder, going to school there. And he called me and gave his idea of it. And they were terrified. I would never do that again. Never. Because I was so— I was like a kid myself. I was like, Did you know? But I’m telling ten- year- olds. And one thing that happened in my— as I was being activist in this. My daughter Anna was— I think she was a seventh- grader right over here at Woodbury, and at that point that was a seventh- and- eighth- grade school. I don’t know now if it’s sixth but…. And that one and there was another time, because there were two schools involved. Anyway, this guy came. He was with the [ Civil Defense] [ 00: 30: 00] They were wardens in groups and they watched out, in case there was something bells and whistles would go off and they’d get people to go into shelters and such. Well, he came and talked to the kids at junior high there. I don’t know who the kid was in school there. Anyway, basically he [ said that] the Russians were bad, they were horrible, horrible people. He was demonizing the Russians, and by then I was already into, what do you—? We don’t demonize the enemy because very often we might— well, as of now, today, we seem to be a lot worse. I think people’s eyes are somewhat being opened now too. But anyway, I called up the school and I said, I’m involved with this and, I said, I think that we should have another view. This is a totally militaristic, telling the kids [ the Russians are] horrible people, you should hate them. And I’m home telling my kids we don’t hate people. And so they wouldn’t let me— they wouldn’t let anybody come and talk. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 You’re kidding. No. So they just had that one point of view. Yes. This guy, and he was a retired Air Force something. I don’t think he was an officer. By that I mean it had been his whole life, and he was there indoctrinating these kids. So then this is obviously before our end of the Cold War kind of— Oh yes. Yes. Now we go to the high school, and that was Anna. She came home and said, Mom— she must’ve been a freshman or a sophomore and she was number— the sixth kid, the second daughter— she came home and said— she was so excited. Oh Mom, she says, this person came and talked to us today and he said that if there’s an atomic bomb— because we called it that then. We never— I don’t think we said nuclear. We were still saying atomic. S