Transcript of interview with Houghton Hoot Peterson by Claytee White, May 20, 2010

An Interview with Houghton Peterson An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©All That Jazz Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2008 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Editor: Barbara Tabach Transcribers: Kristin Hicks Interviewers and Project Assistants: Lisa Gioia-Acres and Claytee D. White ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Harold L. Boyer Charitable Foundation. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the All That Jazz Oral History Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada Las Vegas iii Table of Contents Born in Virginia, Minnesota, a cold spot to grow up. Takes of the trombone and pursues music interest. Goes to college in Minnesota and at the University of Michigan. Joins the Air Force and plays with the world famous Air Force jazz band Airmen of Note j _ ^ In 1962, after one stint in the Air Force, decides that Las Vegas music scene looks like a good fit for him after fulfilling service requirement; mentions "the mob" influence on Las Vegas at the time; talks about early influences on his music; local musicians union; lived in apartment near Desert Inn; played for Lido show and then a t D e s e r t I n n f o r h e a d l i n e r s ; m e n t i o n s p a r t i c i p a t i o n s a t U N L V a n d C S N 4 - 8 Talks about various Strip venues he played, being in Lou Alias relief band; relationships and camaraderie among Las Vegas musicians; caroling at Christmas time, why he belonged to the union; late night jam sessions; musicians' indifference t o s i n g e r s 9 _ U Illustrations After Page 13: Hoot, Hoot riding tandem with Debbie Anderson and copies of autographed photos from Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Four Saints, Sarah Vaughn, and Milton Berle. Is asked about integration of the musicians on the Strip in 1960s. Talks about playing for Ella Fitzgerald; night life and entertainment on the Strip then versus now. Talks about personal and family life; worked six nights a week for 20 years. With no work during Desert Inn remodel, he played for Harry James one year; recalls on-the-road conditions 14 _ 17 Took job as a carpenter and at a music store job to make ends meet. Talks more about carpenter work, why he specialized in the trombone and how he plays music today four nights a week. Recalls how much musician scene changed when he returned from being in California for a year-and-a-half in the late 1970s 17 - 20 Advice for those looking to be a musician todays; differences observed in today's local music opportunities. Recalls head injury from a bicycle accident and how it affected his reading ability; memories of places lived, riding bikes with Debbie Anderson and her death which lead to adding crosswalks on Maryland Parkway; playing in his personal church and others around the community 21 - 29 iv Preface Houghton Hoot Peterson played trombone in his high school band in northern Minnesota where he grew up. That same instrument would lead him to be a member of the highly regarded Air Force jazz band called Airmen of Note after enlistment. Then during a short tour at Nellis Air Force base, Hoot decided that the Las Vegas entertainment scene might have career opportunities for him. He moved to Las Vegas in 1962, an era of celebrity performers and tourists who enjoyed the crowds and nightlife. Hoot's point of view was as a musician in the band, most often a Strip relief band. But he also has tales of famous musicians and late night jam sessions. Hoot s career spanned 20 years. Eventually the Las Vegas scene for live musicians began to change. When times got tough for Hoot, he worked as a carpenter and at a music store. In this interview he discusses his fascinating past and offers advice for today's musicians. ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV All That Jazz Oral History Project Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: / Use Agreement fete ITS ( MJtee- 7) Imcm. We, the above named, give to me Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded intervicw(s) initiated on Smmik _ as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational pi^poges as shall he determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal tide and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude die right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Signature oflnterviewer Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 This is Claytee White. It is May 20th, 2010. I am in the home of Mr. Peterson, who is going to now give you his correct pronunciation and spelling of his first name. My first name is Houghton, H-O-U-G-H-T-O-N. It's kind of a strange name. So I was kind of happy when I got the nickname Hoot. And Hoot, is H-O-O-T? Right. Now, how did you get that name? Houghton got shortened to Hoot when I was a kid. Then when I moved to Las Vegas, one of the first things that happened was my roommate, who I was in the Air Force with, said hi, Hoot. So it was Hoot from then on. Tell me about your childhood: where did you grow up and what that was like. I grew up in northern Minnesota, a town called Virginia, which is in the center of the Mesabi Iron Range—where they got most of the iron for steel back then and I guess that still get quite a bit. It's called taconite now because it's not as strong as iron ore. It's one-third iron where iron ore was two-thirds iron. They have to crush it and do a lot of that stuff before they can make steel out of it. I just saw a TV show. They did all the cities of the country, or all the states of country, on an educational channel. They did Minnesota the other day and I just happened to catch it. So it was kind of neat. They showed our iron mines. Great. So wasn't it cold? Yes, real cold. I lived 80 miles from the coldest spot in the country, which is International Falls, Minnesota. We were not much warmer than that. So how cold would it get? Oh, 40-below zero once or twice every year. In fact, I just heard a couple of years ago it had gotten down to 50-below zero. Not much activity in that climate. So what do kids do? You play outside doing what in that weather? Well, sledding and other outdoor activities. But not even very many kids go out when it's near 20-below zero or colder than that. It's pretty much stay-at-home weather, inside naturally. So tell me about your family. Well, my dad worked for the city. He worked for the electric power company and he was in 1 charge of checking all the meters in the houses, kept track of (power) that people used. My mom didn t work when I was a kid. Before I was a bom she was a piano teacher. She didn't play much after me. I don't know why. Did she teach you piano? A little bit, yes. It was kind of weird because I started learning piano at about age seven or so. I used to like to carve wood. I was carving something and I cut my tendon in my finger and I had a splint on my finger. So that was the end of my piano career. Then I took up trombone because I always thought that was the greatest instmment of all time. My uncle played trombone and my dad played baritone horn. So I was kind of just in that ilk, you know. Okay. So did you play in bands in school? Sure. Tell me about that. I played in high school bands. Then I went to junior college in my hometown, where we had a band. And I played in a dance band. I played gigs (on) weekends. It was a cute band. It was kids, you know. All good players, though. Great. So how did you leave there? Well, I went to the University of Michigan in my junior year. That's how I left town. I haven't been back much since. And Michigan is almost as cold. You can tell I don't like cold weather. Oh. Well, no, it's not nearly as bad as Minnesota was. It was still pretty cold, though. So after college what happened? A friend of mine and I decided to look into the military bands in Washington. So we both took a trip to Washington. He made the Marine band and I made the Air Force dance band, the Airmen of Note, a jazz band, the Air Force jazz band. So that's where it all started. I've never heard of the air force jazz band. The Airmen of Note, it's pretty popular. It's a really good band, one of the best in the world. They're becoming more notable now. But it was really good then, too. So how long were you in the Air Force? Four years, just one hitch. 2 And did you travel while you were there? Oh, yes. We went all over the world. I went to Europe—that was one of my first trips, a six-week trip to Europe. I had to leave college early because when I was in junior college all of my credits didn't transfer. So I still needed four credits to get a degree. So I had to ask the dean if I could leave early and get my credits transferred back to Michigan to get my degree. One of my selling points was the trip to Europe. I thought, you know, he's going to go for that. Well, he did. We went all the way from Norway to Turkey doing one-nighters and concerts. I think the band is more popular in Europe than it is in this country. It's a worldwide band. There's Air Force bases all over the world. So were you playing at Air Force bases or were you playing — On that trip we played all kinds of conerts. We did civilian concerts, but most of the playing in this country was Air Force bases. We would take trips almost every week. And we'd play one night at the officers' club, one night at NCO club and one night at the service club. So we got to play for all the branches, all the ranks of the Air Force. But not all the branches of service, just within the Air Force? Pretty much, yes. So you left the military at some point. Tell me what year is this now? Sixty-two. 1962 you're leaving. Oh, wow, good time to get out. I guess so. Any time was a good time. I didn't like the service. It was a great job. I loved the job. We played all over the country and got to travel and everything. But I didn't like the feeling of the service because I felt like I was in a worldwide jail. I mean you can't quit; they've got you, you know. You're obligated totally. And I just didn't like that feeling. I was not meant for military I guess. Not my thing. But I can't complain about the job. It was a great job. What a great start. So where did you move after the military? Here. Why to Las Vegas? Well, we got to travel all over. And we did a couple of concerts at Nellis and I got to see the town. I saw all the action that was going on here. There was all kinds of music and gigs. I 3 thought this would be a perfect place because you didn't have to leave town. You didn't have to go on the road or anything. You can make your living right here. And I did for many years, for 14 years I guess. Great. So what did Las Vegas look like in 1962? Oh, it was small. Really nice town, though. I think the mob controlled everything at that time. So there was very little crime. It was a really safe place, much nicer than now. Most people that I interview about Las Vegas and early Las Vegas tell me that they liked it when the mob ran the town. Uh-huh. It was very peaceful. Nothing bad happened. You'd end up in the desert somewhere if you did something bad I guess. But do you think the mob could run this now at this level of our economy? I don't think so. It's too big now. There's too much action and too many people making the money. Back then I think they made theirs off the top. I mean they took their profit from the top and then everything else they could give away for all they cared. They already got theirs. So who were some of your early influences in music? Probably your mother I know. And my dad also and my uncle. And then when I left town — I mean when I was a junior in college. So after that I don't know if I had very many influences when I went to Michigan. I don't know. Of course, Tommy Dorsey was always one of my favorites. Tell me about the first paid engagement you had, the first gig. What was that like? Oh, probably a dance in Minnesota, northern Minnesota. We didn't play anything fancy. We played for the VA or veterans club, whatever that is. We played every week there for a while. Just every Saturday night. So were you playing the same thing every Saturday night? Pretty much. We had a library of tunes. We played mostly the same stuff. There wasn't much improvising back then. We didn't know enough to play jazz. So coming to Las Vegas — oh, I love that lamp—where did that come from? A friend bought it for me. It was a birthday gift. They got it in a catalog or something. Oh, fantastic. And by the way, in the room also is his wife, Fran Peterson, F-R-A-N. And 4 she purchased the lamp. And the reason that it caught my attention is because the lamp is a trombone. Okay. So tell me how did you get introduced to music on the Strip? What was your first job here? I was in the Stardust lounge with the DeCastro Sisters. I played in the lounge for, oh, I don't know, several months. Then one of the people from the show band heard the band and I got hired into the Stardust show band, the Lido show. Oh, okay. So how did you find out about that first, the DeCastro Sisters? I just was staying in an apartment on the Strip and got around playing at the union. I was kind of asked to play in the band at the Stardust lounge. How did the union work at that time? Did you have to be in Las Vegas for a certain amount of time before they would send you out on jobs? Yeah, I think so. But it didn't seem to affect me because at that time we really needed musicians. There was a shortage in a way because there were so many jobs. I was never bothered by any of that stuff. I kind of went to work as soon as I got a job. The union doesn't find you jobs, though. It's not like the carpenters union. I belong to the carpenters, too. You find your own jobs in the musicians union, which is okay. It keeps the band good. They can't just take any schlock guy that can pass a test, you know, put them on a job. And it means you have to be paid union scale. Right. Are you still a member of the union? Yes, lam. But there's no more work. So I don't know why I'm still a member. I guess because I'm collecting a pension I guess and I wanted to be sort of faithful. But there's not much activity anymore in the union. It's just kind of almost defunct. But now that we have shows coming back like, ooh, some shows beginning now to have some live bands again, do you find that there are more jobs now? No. Not for me. I'm kind of old now. Nobody knows about me anymore much. I mean the old guys know I'm here, but the new jobs are mostly for new musicians. Okay, when you said that you had an apartment on the Strip, where was that located? 5 Right by the Desert Inn, right behind the Desert Inn sort of. There was an apartment complex there. There was lots of show people lived there, musicians and show people. So it was perfect spot to get started. Tell me about the Lido, how you got that position and what that was like. Well, I think some of the band members of the Lido came to hear the lounge show one night. They probably just needed a trombone player and there I was. So they kind of recruited me. It was a good job, a little boring because you play the same thing every night. But it was good music and a good band. And then after that I got asked by the Desert Inn to play in that band and I took that job. I was only at the Lido probably six or eight months. And the Desert Inn was like a more desirable job because we had stars that we could play for and the shows changed a lot. Who were some of the stars that you played for? Oh, I wrote a bunch of them down. I thought of them. Good. You want to see the list? It's not that big. You just may tell me so that we may hear it on the tape. Jimmy Durante, Tony Bennett, Sarah Vaughan. I can't read my writing. Jack Jones. Who were some of your favorites? Juliet Prowse was really kind of my favorite because she was such a nice lady and she had great music and I just liked her. Give me an idea of — does the band get to interact other than playing for that person? Not much. Did some of them give parties for the band? Yes, almost everybody gave us a party on closing night. You know, it was just drinks and snacks mostly. They all appreciated us and they treated us well. They should because we were good. Yes. How did musicians qualify to play in those bands? They just have to know you. They don't take anybody off the street. Did you have to be able to read the music? Oh, sure. And if somebody played by ear, could they get jobs at that time? 6 Not that kind of job. You really had to be a very versatile musician and read music well because you played the rehearsal and then that night you'd open. So you had to know what you were doing right away. You couldn't take it home and practice it or anything. Who were some of the other people that you played with in some of these bands like at the Desert Inn? You mean the band members? Boy, it's a long time ago. I don't know if we had anybody famous in the band. There's still some people in town here that were in a band. But I don't think you'd know them. Do you know Ken Hanlon? Yeah, I do. He wasn't any person I played with. I played with him at the trombone concerts. We have that annual trombone concert. The 76 Trombones? What is it, 76? Seventy-six Plus Four. I think the four was a rhythm section. I don't know if we had 76. We had close to it, though. I think one year we had over 80 trombonists. There are a lot of people on that stage. So do you interact in other ways with UNLV? Not much anymore. Do I interact with UNLV anymore? Fran: We go to concerts there. Oh, yeah. That's about it. Yeah. They don't hire many musicians anymore. Fran: You do more with CSN(College of Southern Nevada). So what kinds of things do you do with CSN? Played in the band. They had a jazz band for like one of the courses they offered a jazz course I guess and they needed more people. So they built the band up with local pros. That's no longer offered. That course is no longer. I guess they didn't get enough people to fill up their chairs. Fran: Well, they had several sections. Oh, yeah. Fran: And they just didn't do that section you were doing. Yeah, maybe so. So who put that together for CSN? 7 I don't know who. Bobby Scan was the leader, but I don't think he put it together. He just was the top of the class. Fran: He was the teacher. Okay. So which was your favorite venue playing here? Was it the Desert Inn or some other? And why? Well, the Desert Inn was one of my favorites because it varied a lot. We had everything from one-month shows to like shows that would last over a year. Hello America and some of those shows were long like the Lido show almost. Tell me more about Hello America. It's been so long I barely remember. But it was an entertaining show. It had a lot of audience, you know. Tell me some of the stories about some of the bandleaders and about some of the things that would happen on stage. I don't know. I don't have anything bad to say about any of the bandleaders. No, no, no. Some of them knew more than others. I mean one of the guys had been a violinist. All he did was sort of wave his arms to the music and didn't know much about conducting or that kind of ilk. But he got the job. And I think it was because he gambled a lot and wasn't very good at it. So the hotel probably kept him on just to make the money. I didn't mean any negative stories. I just want funny stories or stories that you remember that were memorable. Oh, jeez. Now, was Antonio Morelli one of the bandleaders during your era? Yes. And he was known for an unusual personality but being very, very good to the band members. Apparently, yes. We always got together and had a drink after work. One of the guys from the Sands band would come and tip a few with us. They had nothing bad to say about Morelli. I guess he was kind of a strange person. 8 Fran: So you never worked for him? No. He was at the Sands and I never worked at the Sands. What other places did you work other than the Desert Inn? Well, the Stardust. But then I got a job shortly with a relief band, which was Lou Alias relief band. They would play the off night on the Strip. So that was interesting. One night you'd come in and read the show. It was kind of nerve-racking. But it was nice. It was fun. So how many different shows would a relief band play for? Oh, about four or five a week. And would it be the same rotation every week? Pretty much unless a show changed. Some of the shows were the same year after year. But some of them changed every month. Tell me about the relationship among musicians here in the city, what that family was like. It was very friendly. There was very little conflict or arguments or competition, actually, at that level of quality of musicians. Everybody had to be pretty good. So we weren't really competing for jobs. We already had it. If somebody wanted it, they had to earn it more than anything else. People have told me that the camaraderie with show people is different from anything else; that there is no color, not a lot of competition just as you said. But it was like a family. And they've told me stories about how they helped each other through the years and those kinds of things. Do you have any of those memories? Well, I remember all the stars were very nice people. I have no complaints about any of them. Some of them probably had bad reputations, but not from us. We thought they were great. They treated us well. But we treated them well too, so. And they were friendly, not overly friendly. I think Juliet Prowse was one of the friendliest. I sat with her between shows a couple of times and talked. She was just a nice lady. She was born in India to South African parents. I didn't realize that until she told me. She didn't sound like a foreigner or anything. I didn't know that either. Did you do things together after performances? Only drink. Every night. The Desert Inn had a little liquor store on the side there and musicians would gather there after work. We would get kind of worried thinking that, you know, there's all 9 these guys standing out there drinking. But the person who worked at the store was friendly and he liked us all. He liked to have us there because with all those guys standing in the front, nobody's going to rob the place. So he was happy we were there. What about community activities that the band members would do together? Not much of that. No Christmas programs? No anything special for the city? No. We were too busy. We were working six nights a week. And the seventh night we didn't really want to play much because we were tired. Fran: You would do trombone caroling and stuff at Christmastime. Oh, yeah. Sometimes we'd go caroling. Tell me about that. It wasn't much to tell. It was just guys getting together and going to people's houses and playing Christmas carols. See, you don't think it's anything to tell, but that is so interesting that people from the Strip who make their business doing this would get together to go caroling. That's fantastic. And that's something that we don't even have in our records. Well, it didn't seem any big deal. Just a couple of nights we'd go tramping around at people's houses and playing. So who would organize something like this and how did you decide to go where you went? We went mostly to people we knew. I don't even know who organized it. We all had a play in it I guess. And you would just walk to these areas or everybody would get into cars? How was that arranged? We'd get into cars and travel from one house to the next. And play outside the house? Uh-huh. Yes. So you were just like carolers. Yes, we were instrumental carolers. So would the whole neighborhood come out into the yards? 10 No. The doors were all closed because it was wintertime. So we were on our own. But, see, I think that's so interesting. So thank you for that memory. Any stories about the union and how the union operated at that time? We've interviewed the current president of the union.—So, how did the union work at that time? Anything that you remember? You know, I kind of stayed away from that. The reason I even belonged to the union is because it was the musicians union. But they didn't do much for me and I didn't do much for them. I mean I was not against them or anything. I just wasn't particularly interested. Fran: At that time did they have the hall yet, the big hall over there on Tropicana? It was a great big property over there. That happened when I was here, oh, maybe five or ten years. There used to be a musicians union on Fremont Street. About 15th and Fremont was the union back then ~ or 13th and Fremont I guess. And then they sold that building and built the one on Tropicana. Now, the one on Tropicana had enough space so that guys could actually come in with their horns and practice? Yes. We had jam sessions late at night sometimes till three or four in the morning. So what were those like? Oh, they were fun. You know, everybody came. It was like a social event, too. Fran: It had a bar in there. Yes, a bar. And the celebrities would come too. Sometimes, yeah. Tell me more. Well, they just wanted to hear the bands. Not too many came, but once in a while somebody would come. So once in a while when someone would come would they perform with the band? Yes. See, you don't think this is interesting. Well, musicians really don't like singers much. 11 Oh, really? And that's because they take away from us. Everybody pays attention to the singers and forgets the band. Oh, so that's the way you see it. Kind of, yes. That's true. Nobody notices the band after the singer gets up there. Fran: But you need to qualify that, though. When you were making a living, that's what you did. Yeah. But I understand that. And here's why I understand it. When I go to a concert and the band plays and plays and plays, I'm ready now for a singer. Yeah. But I want some variety. I love to hear the bands play also, but I love the variety. When I hear — and I have the CD in my car right now — the big band with Freeman, his wife was Carolyn Freeman. I don't know who that would be. Stan Freeman. I love that band. The album I have only has two songs where there is a singer. So it breaks it up enough for me to really appreciate the band. And the singer is just wonderful. Sometimes she's just sort of scatting in the back. But I understand what you're saying. Yes. I don't dislike singers. It just would be more fun without them sometimes only because we don't like to share the headline. Yes. Did you do jam sessions at other places here in the city? Well, see, I'm not really what you'd call a jazz player. I play in the sections and I'm a good section player. I play bass trombone in the first place and bass trombone is not really a jazz instrument. Okay. I see. Fran: The answer is yes. And I'm going to ask the next question anyway. I have interviewed a lot of entertainers who told me about jam sessions that would take place sometimes over on the Westside in some of those tiny clubs. No. I wasn't involved. That's more for the real down-home jazz players. And I was never in that ilk very much. 12 Were you aware of those clubs? Oh, yes. What did you hear about them? Oh, nothing negative. And I don't want negative. Fran: Did you ever go, Hoot? Very seldom. I don't know why. But we had everything we needed in the Strip. So there was really no need unless you were a jazz player to go over there. Okay. You didn't come until 1962. In the late 50s, really mid 50s, 1955, the first integrated place opened here. It was the Moulin Rouge. Did you ever go over there for any reason? Yeah, once a while, not very often. Like I said everything we needed was on the Strip and we were busy enough there. I don't have anything against it. Okay, by 1962 the city was integrated. Integration happened here in 1960. Did you play with any of the black musicians? There were very few that played on the Strip or anything. I played with Ella Fitzgerald at the Flamingo. There was a really good jazz band at the Silver Slipper. So she would come to the Silver Slipper after work sometimes and hang out. That was really nice. I liked her a lot. And see, it's not even that well known that Ella Fitzgerald played here. And we have a long, long list of names. I don't think I've seen her name on that list. She was at the Flamingo... It was the one I remember. Fran: Did you play her band, Hoot? Yes, I played the show that she was in. That's another thing. The Silver Slipper was a really nice club. Drinks were half price for locals. So we'd go there after work a lot because they had a really good band, jazz band in there. So we'd go listen to that a lot. Did they have a lot of dancing? No. So locals didn't go out to dinner and dance at these places? Oh, it was all late at night. When the stuff happened it was maybe one or two in the morning. 13 ELLA FITZGERALD Do you enjoy going to the Strip now to see performances? I do, but it's just such a hassle of getting there. Driving is murder. It's very expensive now. Back then it was really cheap, practically free. What do you think is the major change you've seen especially in entertainment between 1962 and now? Well, I think the hotels have become corporations. Before the mob ran them and they just kind of ran themselves. Now everybody has to show a profit. So prices are high and competition is real high. I guess not for me, but I mean for the people involved. One of the things that we used to have here were the lounge shows. That's what I first started, the Stardust lounge. That was a really interesting thing because the stage would revolve. So like every 45 minutes or whenever the show was over, the stage would revolve and a new act would come on just instantly. No warm-ups or anything. The thing would go around and you were on. Fran: I remember that. They used to have three acts revolving. The lounge—didn't it go around the clock almost? Well, I don't know when they stopped. But we'd stop about 1:30 or two in the morning. But they were still going on after that. Fran: And even in the afternoon. It was kind of nice. They had two stages, one in the front and one in the back. And the whole thing would turn around and there you were. What was the audience like? Oh, probably the same as they are now. I don't know. Were they pretty big audiences in the lounges? Yes. I don't know if the seats were all taken very many times, but there was quite a good crowd. People could come and sit and listen to music all night long for practically nothing. So I guess it was good. Oh, that's great. How long did you play here? I guess almost 20 years. Wow. So tell me about some of the other places that you played. You told me about the 14 Desert Inn, the Stardust and the Flamingo. Yeah. Then when I was in a relief band, I played in other places too, the Dunes and the Sahara. Did you have a favorite location? No. At that time it didn't really matter because the traffic wasn't bad enough that you had to wrestle it to get to work. It was pretty easy. And the places were all just places. We just played our music and it didn't matter where