Transcript of interview with Joan Johnson by Kim Geary, March 25, 1978

UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson i An Interview with Joan Johnson An Oral History Conducted by Kim Geary Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson iv Abstract On March 25, 1978, Kim Geary interviewed Joan Johnson (born 1911 in Oklahoma) in her home in Las Vegas, Nevada. The two discuss Joan Johnson’s personal history and her reasons for originally moving to Las Vegas. Johnson recalls early Las Vegas entertainment, as well as the development of businesses and their unions.UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 1 (Unintelligible) This is a project for Local History Project on Oral Interview, Life of a Las Vegas Old-Timer. The narrator is Joan Johnson, the date is March 25th, 1978. The time is 12:30 PM. The place is 2005 Plaza de Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Nevada. The interviewer is Kim Geary. My address is 1322 Honolulu, Las Vegas Nevada. Joan, when and where were you born? In Bartlesville, Oklahoma. When? November 21st, 1911. And where did you grow up? In Tulsa. In Tulsa. And did you complete your education? Yes. And what about your family, what’s your maiden name? My mother’s maiden name? Your maiden name. Oh, Gettinger. Gettinger. A German name? (Unintelligible). What did your father do? My dad was in the oil fields selling oil and supplies. And did you have any brothers or sisters? I had three brothers. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 2 And are they still in Oklahoma? No, one’s in Los Angeles, and one’s down around San Diego, and the other one’s in Iowa. What sort of working experience did you have in Oklahoma? First of all, when approximately, how old—what year was it when you left there and how old were you? Nineteen thirty-five, that made me twenty-four. Twenty-four? What were you doing at that time? I was married. I had two youngsters. And what had you been doing as far as working? I worked as a billing assistant. Why did you leave Oklahoma? Oh, (unintelligible) and not enough work. That’s right, it was in the middle of the depression, right? And you moved to LA? Yes. And what did you there? I worked as a dental assistant there with my brother who was a dentist. Your brother was already out there? Yes. And how long did you stay in the LA area? We went there in ’35 and I left in 1951. Mm-hmm. You can figure better than I can. (Laughs) Why did you leave the LA area? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 3 Because of the smog, my husband had cancer with the trachea and they advised him to get out of the smog. Had you been to Las Vegas previously? Yes, once. We started a store here in 1947. Helped a couple of young fellows get started and so, we were acquainted with Las Vegas. Where, when was your first trip to Las Vegas? Do you remember, approximately? Oh, around ’37. Had you visited here quite a few times before you decided to move? Oh yes, we’d been coming up for years. Did you come a couple of times a year, or most of the year? Well, as the store was getting started, probably once a month. Was your impression of Las Vegas different after you moved here? Than when you had been visiting. My first visit, I thought it was real interesting, but I never want on, I didn’t mind living up here at all. Did you feel like you were leaving civilization, moving here? Did you get the idea that this was a very remote area? Oh no. No, we were acquainted with people that were friendly, friendlier than Los Angeles. It seemed more like home. What about Las Vegas’ reputation at that time. Was it known nation-wide as being an entertainment capital? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 4 No, Las Vegas was small then. It wasn’t, it didn’t have the name that it has now. It hadn’t had air conditioning too long, and people thought of it as being an unbearably hot place with their swamp coolers. Not uncomfortable though. Who was coming here then, as far as entertainers? Was there anybody? We would, the, (unintelligible). I think on some holiday, I remember we had twenty-five thousand visitors. The town wasn’t too awfully much bigger than that, so there were a lot of people coming actually for the size of the town. Do you remember the first time that you heard about Las Vegas? No. What were some of the problems that you encountered living here? Was there a housing shortage? No. We bought a home over on Penney Way. There was no shortage, they kept up with its growth at that time. And since then, do you think it’s been overbuilt or underbuilt? Or? Well, it was underbuilt during the time, when the Test Site started. We’ve had several times when people waited a year to get into the house after they bought it. But they’ve done pretty well. Do you think more or less that this is a boom town? A modern boom town, compared to, like, what (unintelligible) mining base, or something like that? Every place is growing, growing fast. Even up in (Unintelligible), Oregon. There’s just a lot of people and I guess the only places that aren’t increasing rapidly must be the big cities because they’re all trying to get out of there, I bet. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 5 What attracted you—what do you think attracts a lot of people to the Las Vegas area? Or do you think has attracted them in the past? Oh, well there’s many different reasons for that as there are different kinds of people. Health, I think has brought more people per dozen than any other one thing. Las Vegas has a very bad reputation for transiency—people come and go so quickly. Was this the case when you were just moving into town? It seemed like a very stable town to me. ‘Course, I wasn’t concerned about that, I was concerned about my husband’s health and the business. What about the people that come here—do you think that they’re people who come here now are different than they were then? I doubt it. Do you think this is—there are more middle-class coming, coming to here? I won’t be any judge of that, at all. I don’t know, but the middle-class came in the old days too. (Unintelligible), come up here for vacation, have a good time. So (unintelligible)? Yes. What about crime? Has there always been a lot of crime here, or has it increased around—? What? Crime. About the crime—has there been a great increase in crime? Yes, I don’t know how (unintelligible) whether it’s the country, but just bad here now. That’s for sure. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 6 You hear a lot about the “old-days,” when the mafia controlled the big casinos, and do you think they helped control petty crime? I mean, do you think they maybe helped keep down—? Contributed to it? No, I mean kept it down. Oh, I don’t know. As far as murders and that stuff go. I don’t know, I don’t think the mafia has been too (unintelligible) until this town. Maybe I’m just hiding my head in the sand. (Laughs) But— What was the atmosphere like when you first moved here? Were the people—? Friendly? Friendly, yes? Friendly, neighborly, much then more happy. It was a very pleasant neighborhood I had in the old days. You went into a place of business and they were glad to see you, whether it was a person you know or, I don’t know what it was. Just nice to be around. What about the people? Did you feel there were people were friendly, in the casinos? What kinds of places did you go? Well, mostly work. But, when you did go out, anyone you came in contact with was nice. (Unintelligible) hotel was (unintelligible), and it was one of the favorites that they had plenty of people. It was just, just pleasant, you were treated well, not like you are now. On the average evening, say if you went out for a night’s entertainment, would you go to the Strip usually? We only went to the Strip when there were people from out of town. Usually, (unintelligible). UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 7 Which places would you take them? Well, throughout the very early years, it was the El Rancho, quite a bit, when we first came over. And then the Frontier, ‘course it wasn’t too next to us. The Biltmore was a real nice place, and then (unintelligible). You speak of the town being less friendly. What do you think’s caused this? Growth. Just the plain growth? Influx. People from the big cities that don’t know how to be friendly. (Laughs) No, there’s—as the tow gets big, people become afraid. Particularly, all the crime that’s here now, you become reluctant to get a (unintelligible) going with, ‘course you don’t trust in them. But you know, in a town that’s little, it’s a lot different. Everybody knows everyone else’s business? Hmm? Everybody knows everybody else’s business? Oh, there’s no place for the criminal to hide. There wasn’t then then. And it didn’t invite the (unintelligible) like the big city does, like Chicago, and any big city is unfriendly, I think. What changes have been for the good around here? What improvements have you seen in this town? I don’t know exactly what you mean by improvements. Well, you mentioned that there are, it’s lost some of its charms, some of its friendliness. Are there any other things that have counteracted this, these problems? Like you know— From a personal standpoint, or a business standpoint? From a personal. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 8 I don’t think it’s improved. I liked it the way it was. What about from the business standpoint? Well, this growth has been tremendous for business, naturally. Hmm, has there been anything particularly pleasant that you can remember about living here? Any of the really nice things that have happened while you were here? (Unintelligible). And you said that business and health brought you to Las Vegas primarily, your husband’s health. What kind of a business was it? Auto-parts. And you said you helped two men get started, and what happened to them men? One of ‘em was bought out in six months to (Unintelligible) real-estate for about four years. And my husband bought him out. Where was your original store? Main and Carson. What did the building look like? Hmm? (Laughs) Well, it had a Texaco gas station out in the corner and there were a bunch of other little rooms scattered down the side of the service station. Really, it wasn’t very impressive. Just one floor then? Uh-huh. Hmm. It was west of the part of Oakey. How? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 9 There were these little rooms, and they had to rent ‘em. So far, you couldn’t work, it was where it was convenient. What was your background in auto parts? How did you and your husband get started in—? My husband came out of the First World War, borrowed $500 from his uncle and started the business in LA. He got approved from LA. What about your first experience in the auto parts? I was working as a dental assistant. And (unintelligible), I had two children at an age old, a car-dealer, (unintelligible) or a parts man, no experience needed. So my wages jumped from fourteen dollars a week to a hundred and fifty a week. Why the switch? I was getting desperate. What year was this approximately? I would say probably about ’43. It was illegal to hire a man, how was it, men of drafting age—anyways, there was a shortage of men to do the work, and had a blooming to do that. What did you do? I ran the parts department from the agency. In what other areas have you worked in, in auto parts? Well, of course then, I worked on my own and with my husband. When did you start—from—when did you marry him? In ’47. And he already had his auto parts store going? Yes, since 1922, I recall. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 10 Oh my. What was your husband’s attitude towards business in this area? Yes, the same as it was. What was your husband’s attitude? (Phone rings) Let me get this something— Your husband’s attitude towards business—how did he handle competition? Did he, was he very competitive? Well, he came from a very competitive area. And (unintelligible) give it in service, and we continued it up here, which made it easy to develop the business. Did he join, was he a joiner of say, Chamber of Commerce or anything like that? No, just the automotive organization. And so, he just more or less went his own lone way? Hmm? He just more or less went his own way? Yes. But the other person then didn’t bother him, he just ran his business as always. What kind of problems did you encounter with employees and gambling? Did you have any problems with that? Yes, there’s always problems with bad chaps and people that don’t pay, people that (unintelligible) gambling, some of them (unintelligible). And when he hit the crap table, he’d pay his bills. And they almost paid him. Might be two or three months, but people got along with him because they didn’t give him time to cheat him out of anything. Is this man still in business? Is he still around town? Oh yes, he’s still around, and doing well. What about your employees? Did you have to send any—? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 11 The employees? The employees. The employees were a different problem, in California for sure. If gambling got to (unintelligible) they’d have to leave town. He became a compulsive gambler, or he turned toward bars, also contributed to some men finding out they just couldn’t live here. But I was amazed that many times, rather than the man, it was the woman, his wife that couldn’t leave it alone, particularly the Bingo and the gambling, and they couldn’t afford it, and then they— Were these people that you, like brought in from California? Or were they—? Well, some of our group came up with us quite a few of them. Do you think—? One of them had to quit his job and moved back to California was because his wife gambled too much. Do you think part of the problem with oh, just some of them being away from home? Or just being uprooted from say, California, or wherever it was they were from? The problem, it was just, it was just something that came to the area, because down there, they didn’t have bars up in (Unintelligible) And you were pretty active in helping your husband manage his business for a long time? That’s right. What parts of the business did you take care of? Anything in particular? I did all of it at one time or another, other than driving to the hotels. Did you run into any problems in this town, gaming (unintelligible) business? No. Before my husband passed away, I was well, alone, with being active on my own. I think the thing that made it easy for me to continue was the fact that I had done everything in the store. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 12 The employees knew that I knew each one of the jobs and they seemed to respect my judgement, so that helped. I’m sure if I hadn’t been in the business, it would’ve been difficult. So after your husband passed away, and you were left with the business completely on your own, how many stores did you have at that time? One Was it still Downtown? Yes. 916 North Main. And you didn’t have any particular obstacles to overcome as far as dealing with other people? I hoped I had enough to (unintelligible) but they didn’t want to (unintelligible). Most of these people were long time employees? Yes, mm-hmm. We only had one left that came and left in Pasadena. He’s retired now, but except for one day a week, he likes to come in and work. After most of your employees retired, or left the business, did they stay in the area? Or did they go back to California? Or do you have any idea? After they retired, they moved up here from Pasadena, they stayed with us until they retired. Stayed here until they died. Bill’s the only one that’s still living. Do you think the growth of the business—you now have what, four stores? Three stores and a warehouse. (Audio begins mid-sentence) very large computer system. Do you think that this fantastic growth would have been possible say, in a city that wasn’t growing so fast? No. It couldn’t have grown that fast, there would’ve had to be customers. This influx of people here has accounted for such drastic growth of the company. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 13 Did you notice a real great change in population when the Test Site was building up? The, what is that you want to know about the— Did the population, did you see a rapid explosion in the population as the test side started— I don’t, I don’t know how big the explosion was. I doubt it was (unintelligible) so much, but there was such a tremendous shifting of jobs. Parts man, grocery man, mechanics, left their jobs and went to the Test Site. I’m sure a lot came in too, but March (unintelligible) is what Bill wanted. Had been working here, (unintelligible) keep up with your own health problems. Because Joe would go out there and he would get a fantastic wage, so he’d take off, and then Bob would take Jim, and it was hard then. So as far as you’re concerned, the Test Site had a primarily negative impact on your business? Well, it just made it a little more difficult. But a lot of those that left with the Test Site, would rather just not have them anyways. What about the size of this town, the physical size? Do you remember how far it extended in its directions, do you remember when you first moved here? You had Maryland Parkway and Charleston. There was a little group of homes out there in Huntridge. It seemed like it was out there in the country and I bought (unintelligible) and that was as far west as anybody was, except for the farm house that was back away. Now, you’re being sent to (unintelligible) if it keeps you on. When you were, when you first moved here, what about the recreation? Did you ever get up to the places like Mount Charleston or like that, out of the town? No, with my husband’s health, or what it was, in the business, I had very little time for recreation. UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 14 By the time you moved to Las Vegas, your children were grown, weren’t they? Yes, mm-hmm. Your son was still in California when you moved up here? Yes, he was in the Navy four years at San Jose State College and he came out of college in ’62 I think. And he came up here then? Yes. And did he take over the businesses? What? Oh, I looked over his shoulder for about a year and a half, and then I let him run it, and ‘course, he’s done a beautiful job. Done a lot of expanding? Yes. Much more than I would’ve done. But he was young, and—it’s just that I don’t know anything except the attitude, and the respect that he had. That Bugsy Siegel had? I don’t know. Trouble or scandal, but nothing was conventional here. He was a good host, the place was nice, treated people well, and I guess other (unintelligible) were alright, but he left his mafia tactics someplace else. So if he had any ties then— I don’t know other than that, if you noticed anything, or paid attention— The only thing with, it was rough, was the unions back in those days. Oh really? Yes. Union members could get beat up coming out of an election, or a meeting, because they said the wrong thing and would get badly beaten— (Tape one ends) UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 15 Too many men were found out in the desert with hooves in their head. It was the—(unintelligible) would turn vicious. When Cashman built his new building, about two days before it was to have his grand opening, it was apparent that they started and evidence of the fire had been set before placing it. It was not an accident. But Jim Cashman wasn’t about to join the union, and they had been fighting—that sort of thing, maybe the unions were mafia controlled. But they were the ones that were dangerous, I think. What was this Cashman building? Cashman building was down on the property where, I guess where the Union Plaza took on over down on Main Street. Was it a casino or what—? What? Was it a casino, or hotel, or—? Oh no, car dealer. Oh Cashman, oh, Cadillac’s and things like that— Yes, mm-hmm. He had Cadillac owned, (unintelligible) at that time. And he wasn’t going to employ union builders for it? He, then—no, he didn’t have union employees. Employees voted against joining the union. The building was put up alright, but maybe started just, trying to put pressure on him to make his employees join the union that didn’t want to join. What about the culinary unions, were they pretty rough too? That’s—I think the Right to Work Law came in the state of Nevada—kept a lot of pressure of the strong-earned business out. The Culinary Union, all of those things have grown big in the part of the last, oh I don’t know, ten, fifteen years? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 16 Was there any other pressure on your employees to unionize? Was what? Was there any pressure on your employees to unionize? There was a time before we moved up there that, we weren’t at the hotel thirty minutes before the union got in. They offered to (unintelligible) but there was no pressure. We were small and well, told the same thing they told ‘em in Pasadena, just, “Stop talking to my employees,” is what I told them. But I knew they didn’t. Well, I always tried to pay well, and give them more than they would get from the union anyway, and if any of them had got into financial trouble, we’d help them. (Unintelligible) he was pushing against it, it was just that they had a better deal than they would have had if they joined the union. How many employees did you have down in California? At one time? In the Pasadena, they had a machine shop in connection with the next door, we had about four men back there and three salesmen, so probably seven, about eight countermen, and three girls in the office. And we were, both worked in it. And then when you moved up here, your place is much smaller? You didn’t have the—? Oh, we started out very small. When we took it over, the man had left us, the original partner opened up his own store, and we took over Las Vegas Auto Parts. It didn’t bother my husband, he knew, it was just a matter of time. We built a building. Where was that? 916 North Main Street. Is that building still there? You bet. And you still have auto parts there? UNLV University Libraries Joan Johnson 17 Sure do, that’s our main store. That’s a nice store. I enlarged it after Walter died, and then barely out of—it’s (unintelligible). And then what was his next addition? He has first ventured in expansion, was at 2411 Haleh. We spent a lot of hours designing the store and its building. He has a rental, Las Vegas Auto Parts only is about a half-room building, and then on the back of the property is nice little shade shack. And then what was the third place he opened at? The third place was on Paradise and Tropicana. It’s in the shopping center, a rental—we rent this place out. So you come from just a very tiny little store to three very large ones in twenty-six years. Yes. It’s been quite a progress. Well Joan, I sure thank you for your help in this and everything, and we appreciate it very much. I hope you can use it. Thank you.