Transcript of interview with Melanie Greenberg by Barbara Tabach, June 14, 2016

An Interview with Melanie Greenberg An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers & Editors: Barbara Tab ach, Claytee D. White n The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first- person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader’s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Cl ay tee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas m Preface When Melanie Greenberg was a young girl in her hometown of Kansas City, Missouri, she thinks it is likely that she crossed paths with her future husband at Hebrew School. However, it would be years later in college when they officially met - and fell in love and married in 1970. By 1976, Missouri was in the rearview mirror and career opportunities for her husband Gene Greenberg would lead them to Las Vegas. With their 18-month-old daughter Sari, they drove into Las Vegas for the first time, down Boulder Highway to Flamingo Road. Gene’s employer had arranged for a room at the Flamingo Hotel. As she explains, there many have been a better route, but it brought them to town and they stayed, raised their family, and became fixtures in the community since that moment. Among their first goals was finding a synagogue. Melanie’s magical touch has been felt in many places within the Las Vegas Jewish community: an active member of Temple Beth Sholom, the Jewish Federation’s Young Leadership and Women’s programs, organizer of Hebrew High, coordinator of L’Dor V’Dor activities for seniors, and Executive Director of Hillel from 1996 - 2003. IV Table of Contents Interview with Melanie Greenberg June 14, 2016 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface................................................................................iv Begins with family ancestry, parents were from Russia; father was raised in Wausau, Wisconsin in a religious home. Her mother made Shabbat dinners and Seder; belonged to a Reform synagogue as a child. Talks about how she and Gene met at JCC in Columbia, Missouri; both were attending University of Missouri, and both were from Kansas City and probably crossed paths during their youth; transferred to UMKC, and married in 1970; talks about growing up in Kansas City, and the Jewish community there.................................................................1-4 Talks about moving to Las Vegas in 1976; Gene worked for Donrey Media and their moves to and from Reno and then to Laredo and eventually to Las Vegas. Taught for a while. Story of driving Boulder Highway into Las Vegas and heading for Flamingo Hotel, first time in Las Vegas. First week here they join Temple Beth Sholom; talks about Leo Wilner; secures a teaching job and puts daughter in Green Frog nursery school; teaches briefly at Jewish day school.......5 - 8 Tells how their lives changed after Rosh Hashanah that year when they met the Oscar Alterwitz family, who owned Walker Furniture, and Roberta and Dennis Sabbath, Lynne and Arne Rosencrantz and became involved with the Jewish Federation Young Leadership program. Tells of the impact of Dennis Prager and Joe Telushkin, speakers brought in by Jerry Countess for the Federation; she and Roberta Sabbath eventually co-chaired the leadership program; hosted annual Rosh Hashanah luncheon for 40-60 people; mentions many of the people who attended: Henry and Lil Kronberg, Oscar and Carolyn Goodman, Shelley and Fred Berkley, Ed Bernstein, Elaine Silverman, Debbie McKinnon...........................................................9-12 Reminisces about different Jewish communities she has experienced - Kansas City, Laredo, Las Vegas; laments no JCC emerged to unify the Jewish community here. Recalls Sixth Grade Centers and bussing of Sari when she was that age; she, Carolyn Goodman and Myra Greenspun joining together on improving local education, Dr. Cobbley at George E. Harris school, start of Meadows School led by Carolyn Goodman; challenges of assuring quality educational experience at the time................................................................................13 - 16 Talks about involvement with Women’s Division (now Women’s Philanthropy); included Carolyn Goodman, Cari Marshall, Jayn Marshall, Adele Baratz, among others. Explains Sarah Saltzman Award and Mickey Wilner Award; her daughter Elissa was recent recipient of the Sarah Saltzman Award for Women’s League programs she initiated. Also tells of daughter Sari’s position as Nevada’s Executive Director of AIPAC; son Jaron lives in Spokane.....................17-21 v Speaks about the increased number of Jewish congregations since they moved to Las Vegas; growth; feelings that it is too late for a JCC to make a difference here; she talks about being on Women’s Division board for number of years and being president for a year; Jewish Federation President Hal Ober and his wife Dee Ober........................................22-24 Explains her current role as coordinator of L’Dor V’Dor since retiring from Hillel, previously managed by Shel Kolner; purpose of L’Dor V’Dor; mentions Ruth Goldfarb, Mel Wolzinger, Jackie Torchinsky...............................................................25-28 Talks about how she create Hebrew High in late 1980s to encourage Jewish teens to meet from all over the city; steps to becoming Director of Hillel, mentions Ronnie Epstein, Gary Zimmerman, Edgar Bronfman, Richard Joel, Robin Greenspun, Carol Harter; how she grew Hillel; fake wedding activity; Birthright trip to Israel; challenges of continuity with Hillel at UNLV... .29 - 37 vi Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project UNLV University Libraries Use Agreement Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: f. ff- 'T/fjMtf/f________________ We, the above named, give to the Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded interview(s) initiated on N - 2-0 along with typed transcripts as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. This gift does not preclude the right of the interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. I understand that my interview will be made available to researchers and may be quoted from, published, distributed, placed on the Internet or broadcast in any medium that the Oral History Research Center and UNLV Libraries deem appropriate including future forms of electronic and digital media. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Oral History Research Center at UNLV Libraries 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, NV 89154-7010 702.895.2222 Today is June 14th, 2016. This is Barbara Tabach sitting with Melanie Greenberg for the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage project. Melanie, would you spell your name for us first? M-E-L-A-N-I-E. Greenberg, G-R-E-E-N-B-E-R-G. Great. So let's start with a little bit of family history. Tell me what you know about your ancestral roots. Kind of fun, interesting. My dad [Norman Hoffman] had eight brothers and sisters. Both of my parents are from Russia; I think it's Minsk - where they're from - but the border went back and forth a lot between Poland and the Soviet Union, or Russia at that time. But that's where they're from. My grandparents had one son and my grandmother was pregnant with another child, when my grandfather came to the United States alone. I'm guessing maybe he didn't know she was pregnant when he left. But he said if she had a girl, I guess he would come back; but if she had a son, she would come to the United States because he would only give one son to the czar's army. Oh, wow. Yes. So because. . .That's why I'm here because she had a boy; that's kind of neat. It is neat. It's nice to know that. Yes. As heart wrenching as it can be, it tugs at the sentiment of family and heritage and all. Yes. So obviously, he had a boy. My father grew up in Wausau, Wisconsin. It was very anti- Semitic. My grandparents were very religious. My grandmother had a mikveh in the basement. My father used to get beat up going back and forth to Hebrew school when he was studying for his bar mitzvah. How did they choose to live in such an anti-Semitic area? 1 Good question. I don't know if I remember why they ended up there. There was family there. A lot of the family is from Wisconsin originally. They were there for years because we used to go there a lot in the summer to visit family that was there. So they stayed and hopefully it got better. But, yes, that was... So he was not religious at all, my dad, but I was raised in a Jewish home. I knew I was in a Jewish home. My mom [Harriet Steinman Hoffman] would make Shabbat dinners. We'd light the candles. We would go out for all the holidays. She'd do a big Seder and everything. We always belonged to a synagogue, but it was Reform. It was kind of funny because I remember as a child thinking, this isn't enough for me; there must be more to my religion than what I'm learning. I did all the stuff. We girls weren't really bat mitzvahed back then, but I was confirmed. My brother—this is kind of interesting. First they belonged to ... a traditional shul, the same shul Gene (her husband) belonged to. So we figured out we were in kindergarten together in Sunday school. Oh, that's wild. Because we're the same age. Yes, but we never knew each other after that. After my brother had his bar mitzvah, they left that synagogue and joined the Reform temple. But, yes, they did things that didn't seem right to me, like blowing a horn instead of a shofar. The rabbi had an electronic arc that opened when he pushed the button. It was kind of like, I don't know. So then I meet this guy at the Jewish Community Center swimming pool. Didn't know him. We were in ... college - we were going into our sophomore year in college. Well, to back up a little bit, I was very active in BBG [B’nai B’rith Girls], I was president of my BBG group. BBG was really important to me. Gene was not in AZA, which 2 was the male counterpart; he was in USO, United Synagogue Organization, which is from the synagogue that he belonged to. So we met at the Jewish Community Center swimming pool. He was with his best friend, I was with my best friend, and my best friend knew them — I didn't, or at least she knew his best friend. So we met. It took him two weeks to call and ask me for a date. I think he was a little nervous about it. Where were you in school? Where were you going? My first year I went to Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm an alum. Are you kidding? No. Oh my gosh. Our paths were destined to cross, too. Isn't that funny? I didn't put it on there because I graduated from UMKC [University of Missouri-Kansas City], So I didn't bother. Yes, I went there for one year. I didn't stay because they had changed the curriculum. I went there for merchandizing or something like that and they changed the classes and I had to take all these accounting and classes that I had no desire to take and was not good at. So I switched the second semester to education. I just didn't care that much about staying there. For education, I could go to Mizzou for that. So I switched and went to Mizzou. So when I met Gene at the JCC, what we discovered was that we were both going to Mizzou and we were staying at the same dorm. It was a co-ed dorm and we were both going to be there. Not only were we both at the same dorm, my room was two floors above his exactly. So if we looked out the window—or maybe it was even one floor. If they were playing music 3 loudly, we could hear it, him and his roommate. Wow, talk about destiny. It was very bizarre, yes. So then he was going to go back to Kansas City after his first year at Mizzou. So I decided to go back, too. Then I finished my last two years at UMKC. He was drafted 1-A and that was not going to happen—or he knew he was going to be. So he joined the Army Reserves. It was better that I was home, anyway. But you got married after college? No. He was in the Reserves for a year. We got engaged and then he went to the Reserves. I'm trying to remember. I can't remember. He went to the Reserves for six months. That's what basic training was, six months. Then he came back and after a while we got engaged and then we got married a year later. So I finished my senior year after we got married because I was going to school full time and working part time and he did the opposite; he worked full time and went to school part time. So it took him another year. What was it like to be in the Jewish community in Kansas City for you? What do you remember about it? It was a wonderful community. It was really great. We had close friends. Gene had a lot of family there, cousins, kind of distant cousins. But when Gene's parents came with his brother from the DP camps and came to the United States and came to Kansas City that family there just welcomed them and took them in and everything. So that was really nice. Of course, I came along much later, but I just loved his family there. We just immediately bonded. They threw a shower for me. We're still very close, I still am with his family as well. Growing up in Kansas City, it was a wonderful Jewish community. I grew up at the Jewish Community Center and was at the synagogue and all that. It was great. 4 What brought you to Las Vegas then? Because you arrived here in 1976. What brought you here? Well, that's kind of a funny story. When Gene graduated, we were in Kansas City and he got a job with Donrey Media. They hired him for a TV station in Reno, Nevada. So we left our whole family and moved to Reno, Nevada. It was a management training program. He started in different departments and they trained him on all aspects of the TV station. That's what he had studied in college. So it was perfect. His brother had also worked for Donrey Media. We knew it was a good company and everything. We got this beautiful apartment there near the mountains. It was beautiful. We loved it. Six months later they transferred him to Laredo, Texas, to the company there, TV station there. We're like, really? So we went. There were about a hundred Jewish families. Of course, we joined the synagogue right away. We made friends right away in the Jewish community. It was interesting. The really funny part for me was I got my degree in education and in Kansas City they really weren't hiring teachers. So we went there. I called on the telephone—and in Reno, they weren't hiring teachers either. I worked for— So, yes, in the early seventies, yes, there was an abundance of educators. Yes, too many teachers. So I worked when I was in Reno for an insurance company and I had a very sweet boss and it was fun and it was fine, but six months; that was it. So we went to Laredo. I called the school district and they hired me on the telephone. It was like, oh my gosh. So the reason being that Nixon, when LBJ became president, yes, Nixon closed the Air Force bases. Now, I don't remember how that overlapped. No, I guess LBJ didn't. Yes, he didn’t run against Nixon. But Laredo went overwhelming for Hubert Humphrey. 5 Yes. So when they closed the Air Force base there, they lost a lot of teachers - when it closed. That's what it was, yes. I was like, wait a minute. They hired me on the phone to replace a teacher who was on maternity leave and I would be teaching first graders. So I go to the first day of school - on my first day of school, they were already in session. I go to the basement of a condemned school building and I have 40 first graders who mostly speak Spanish. My worst grade in high school was Spanish. I just am not... Some people just don't have that ability to learn languages. I learned some of it, but that was my worst grade. So what did you do? When would I ever need to speak Spanish? How did you handle that? Seems I had enough Spanish that I could kind of communicate and they had enough English. But my kids learned English very quickly, which was good. They went home and all they had was Spanish at home. I think it was a 100%, or at least 90%, of the kids there were on federal assistance, getting free lunches. They were great. We had a good relationship. They were good kids. Some of them were older than first graders because they didn't know enough to go into an upper grade. So they learned. They were building a brand-new school to move into. So then I moved with them into the new school. Then I got pregnant. That was really funny -1 had morning sickness - when we went out to the playground in the morning, I would take my box of saltines and just start shoving them into my mouth. Some of the kids thought I had swallowed a watermelon seed. Anyway, I did not continue when I had Sari; when I had her, I stayed home with her. Our friends there, our Jewish friends there, all had businesses and the wives were all part 6 of the business. So they had Mexican help that raised their kids. They weren't around; they were at work all the time. They cleaned their homes. They cooked their meals. They raised their kids. That wasn't going to happen to my children. That wasn't the kind of family I was raised in. When Sari was a little over a year old, maybe a year and a half, and I told Gene that, "I'm done; you've got to get me out of here now." I didn't mean I was done with the marriage, but I'm done in Laredo. "You need to get out of here now; it's time." We had been there for three and a half years. He said, "Okay." They said, "Okay, we can transfer you to Las Vegas, but we only have an opening at the radio station. But we promise as soon as the TV station opens up, we'll transfer you." So we left Laredo the day after Yom Kippur. I was very happy to leave. I was sad to leave our friends. We had nice friends there, but there was nothing for me there because I would—and I did go back and teach again, but it was with Sari; Sari came with me. I taught in a little private school. That was really interesting. How’s that? A very elderly lady ran this school. It was for all grades. So she hired me to come and help her and I could bring Sari with me to school. That was nice. Yes. I don't even remember how I met her, but she was an interesting lady and that was an interesting experience. So then we came to Las Vegas. We got here—this was really funny—we got here and we were staying at the Flamingo Hotel. That was the first hotel we stayed in. When you work for a radio station, TV station, they have trades. So they had a trade for us at the Flamingo. We came in from Texas and the first place we got to was Boulder Highway. We're 7 driving along Boulder Highway and we see Flamingo Road. So we thought, oh, we'll just turn here and that'll take us right to the hotel. So we're driving and driving and driving from Boulder Highway to the Strip on Flamingo. We realized there probably might have been a better way to do it. But we eventually got there. We had Sari with us. She was about eighteen months old at the time. What do you do with a kid in a casino? We ate all of our meals in the casino. She played Freeno instead of keno; we would give her the cards and she would play with them with the Crayons and mark them, draw pictures, whatever. So that would occupy her. That's cute. Freeno; that's great. Was that your first encounter with Las Vegas? Yes, yes. What did you think of it at first sight? Can you remember? Interesting. It was interesting. I came here when I was a child, so I didn't remember it from back then except they had the one-arm bandits back then. I don't think we had them in 76. I don't remember seeing any. It was just an adventure. We had no intention that this is where we would stay. It was an adventure and we'll see where it leads us. So the first week we were here, Gene went and joined the synagogue; as soon as he had time to do it the first week, he did that. That was Temple Beth Sholom that we joined. Leo Wilner was the executive director. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but Leo's first impression with people wasn't warm and fuzzy. I don't know if it was because we were a young couple and he didn't think there were a lot of young families there. I don't know what the reasoning was, but he really tried to discourage Gene from joining, which is very strange. That is very strange, yes. 8 So anyway, we weren’t discouraged; we joined. We did not meet another young Jewish family for a whole year. We had friends from work, from Gene's work and that was it. In the meantime, I got a teaching job and Sari went to a nursery school called The Green Frog. The gal who ran it, her name was Iasha—I think her name was Iasha or something like that—and Sari was just ..My sister called her marshmallow because she was just this roly poly, white as snow, just adorable, adorable, rolls of baby fat and just adorable, precious smiling child. So Iasha had fun with her and loved her and everything. It came to the time when it was time to potty train Sari and I had filled in at what was the Hebrew Academy at the time, which was in its new—it wasn't that old of a school. It was at Temple Beth Sholom. It was a Jewish day school. So you filled in as a teacher? As a teacher, yes. Somebody had left. I taught sixth grade for about six months I'd say. That's when Sari, it came time for her to be potty trained. I said, "Oh, no, I'm not going to have somebody else potty train my child. It's just not worth it." But I wasn't that happy there where I was teaching. So I quit and brought her home. When our lives really changed here was after Rosh Hashanah that year. Gene had met the Alterwitz family through business; calling on clients he met Oscar Alterwitz. Oscar invited us for lunch at his home after Rosh Hashanah. We're like, oh, that would be wonderful, because we had nobody here. So we went and we met Roberta and Dennis Sabbath. It's like, oh, wow, this is great. Because they had a child, also; Adam, their oldest, and Sari were the same age. So Roberta and I quickly became friends. Through Roberta and Dennis, we met Lynn and Arne Rosencrantz, and we became involved in the Jewish Federation Young Leadership program. We went through the program, which was amazing when we went through that program. What was amazing about it? Talk about that program. 9 I definitely will. Have you heard of Dennis Prager? And Joe Telushkin? Both very big names in Jewish writings and teaching. They were both at Brandeis-Bardin in California. So somehow—I don't remember if it was through—probably through the Federation because they were very connected to our Federation, Jerry Countess. So he brought them in to have sessions with Young Leadership. It was a real learning experience back then. Was it a new program when you were involved? Yes, it was a fairly new program. Oh my gosh, we studied with Dennis Prager and Joe Telushkin. It was amazing. Then we graduated, and Roberta and I took over the program as the co-chairs of it. We ran the program for a few years and we had big gatherings. We would invite a bunch of young Jewish couples and get them to go through the process. The four of us were close, Roberta and Dennis and Gene and I. Our families started growing; we both had second children and both had girls who grew up together. If I say the next thing, I'll start crying again, so I won't. It's funny. Because of that luncheon Gene and I, when we started having friends here, Jewish friends, we started having an annual Rosh Hashanah luncheon. The Rosencrantzes, the Sabbaths, and the Marshalls used to come. Who else came? I can't remember, but whoever. We used to have like forty people. This is at your home? At our home. Where were you living at that time? I'm trying to remember if we started this when we moved to a home near the synagogue. I think that's when we started it. The synagogue was located where at that time? On Oakey. So when TBS was on Oakey, we moved into that neighborhood. I'm trying to 10 remember... Yes, when we moved to the house on Oakey, we started having the Rosh Hashanah lunches because people would go out. They wanted to come out to lunch with us. Like, no, it's Rosh Hashanah; we're not going out to a restaurant for lunch; you come over to our house. So many things evolved in our community from those lunches. Elaborate on that. What else evolved? Oh, Henry and Lil Kronberg used to come. If I really think about it. . . Shelley Berkley always came, Shelley and Fred. Shelley continued to come. I'm trying to remember. When they did get divorced? The boys were— Anyway. Ed Bernstein. I'm sure when he and Carrie were first married, because the Marshalls were coming. I'm trying to remember. I don't think the Goodmans came. Anyway, but I remember Shelley and Ed Bernstein sitting there having a very heavy conversation. You can ask Shelley about it, but I'm guessing it was about politics. One of them after that—well, it was Shelley. I think she was probably thinking about running for...What did she run for, for the Congress? Was that the first? Congress, yes. I think she was something before that too, but I can't remember. Anyway, but that was at the next house. When we moved we continued; even though we were at South Shore, we still had the lunches every year. Then when we moved here, of course we're near the synagogue again. So we're still doing it. Oh, really? Yes, we still do it. So how many people would you have? Now we have about sixty people. And now we have the kids here and we include some of their close friends. 11 So it’s become multigenerational? Yes, definitely. That’s great. What a wonderful tradition. Poor Roberta schleps all the way out from Green Valley, but she loves doing it because we catch up with Elaine Silverman. She was one of our group. We all raised our kids together and they're still . . .Even if they never see each other, they're still there for each other. They've got shared memories. Yes, yes. Then Debbie McKennon, who passed away unfortunately when I was at Hillel. Went like that from lung cancer. So her son and daughter grew up with the same group. So you've experienced a lot of rites of passage. Yes. Life cycle events together. Yes. That bonds you. Absolutely, absolutely. So when you reflect back on the different Jewish communities that you've experienced, how would you describe or compare the Las Vegas Jewish community to Laredo, to Kansas City, to your early childhood? To me they were all similar because we were always...We didn't wait for somebody to ask us to do something. It was our responsibility to become involved and give to the Jewish community; it wasn't something that we waited for them to come to us. So we made fast friends. We were involved. I mean we loved each community. To me Las Vegas is a wonderful Jewish community. Unfortunately, we've lacked the leadership that we needed at the right times so that 12 more didn't happen, to have a JCC instead of waiting until now. I think the community would have looked so different. We wouldn't have had such a divisive community had they found one place or another to put the JCC. Then the community would have built around there. So that's my only real complaint of something that should have been done differently. How about the external community, like experiencing anti-Semitism or any of that in the different communities you’ve lived in? Not really. The only time in Las Vegas was when there were skinheads and we lived near Temple Beth Sholom on Oakey and that was the area they were in, which was a little nerve-racking especially when you're raising children there. But I don't remember anything actual happening. I always think of Kansas City, like Tom Watson. I remember that episode...In the early 1990s? Oh, yes, Kansas City, yes. Yes. Comparing that; the idea that there were country clubs that Jews were not allowed to belong to. None of that ever happened in Vegas history that I've ever heard about. I don't think so because there were Jews founding it, founding the casinos and everything. They were very integral, yes. For blacks it was not a pleasant place. Right. What do you remember about the treatment of blacks in Vegas? I just remember not seeing them. I just remember how strange it was that you don't see blacks in the community. Then when Sari went to sixth grade, they had the bussing system where she got bussed to the intercity. A number of times I had to drive there for one reason or another, a program or whatever, and it made you realize nobody should be bussed. They shouldn't be 13 bussed and we shouldn't. We should just make better schools and just allow for people to move and live where they want to live. That was quite a period of time in Las Vegas history with the Sixth Grade Centers and all of that. Yes, yes. They did what they thought was a good idea - and it wasn't horrible. There was nothing horrible about it, but it was just a strange thing to do. A strange reality, for sure. So go ahead. Let me tell you something not the Jewish community—well, kind of it was. Has anyone talked about... Education has always been really important to me. So when it came time for them—Sari had gone to the Hebrew Academy for a few years, and I was actually one of the founding board members when they became more of a day school. Carolyn Goodman and I joined the board to try to take it to the next step so to speak and help them out. So I pulled out my daughter because there were a lot of issues with the director at the time. This is at the Hebrew school? Yes, the day school. A lot of people were having issues with her and everything. I just decided I wasn't happy either. So Sari was going into third grade and I found that there was a fantastic school where Carolyn Goodman had her kids (there) and Myra Greenspun - we were in the same neighborhood near the synagogue and she had her daughter there. So I thought, I'm going to check this out. So I got a zone variance and took Sari across town close to our old neighborhood to go to George E. Harris, and Dr. Cobbley was the principal there. You could put this school against any private school even though it was a public school. It was so fantastic. Their teachers, every one of them was outstanding. Sari got there and she was behind in math. Sari is 14 a really bright kid. I just couldn't believe that. So her teacher—I fell in love with her teacher— she just loved Sari; Sari loved her. Of course, in no time at all she got caught up and just flourished at that school. It was just wonderful. So she got there through the fifth grade. Then Elissa, the next one got in and great teachers and everything. Then Carolyn, love her to death, took Dr. Cobbley and started the Meadows School. So Carolyn Goodman, really love Carolyn, but she took D