Interview with Bennie Reilley, Sr., May 10, 2004

Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with Bennie Reilly, Sr. May 10, 2004 Ely, Nevada Interview Conducted By Renee Corona Kolvet © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Interview with Bennie Reilley, Sr. May 10, 2004 Conducted by Renee Corona Kolvet Table of Contents Introduction: born in Ely, Nevada, spent childhood at Duckwater Shoshone Reservation, Nevada. Attended Stewart Indian School before enlisting in the United States Marine Corps. 1 Memories of witnessing atmospheric tests conducted at the Nevada Test Site from Duckwater. 8 Diet, hunting, gathering pine nuts during childhood 9 Description of his role as an elder for the Western Shoshone, comments on the tensions between traditional and modern elements of Indian society. 12 Memories of Stewart Indian School 13 Diagnosed with esophageal cancer, undergoes radiation treatment and chemotherapy. 16 Conversations and experiences with wife, Geraldine, a traditional healer. 18 Vietnam wartime exposure to Agent Orange. 22 Receives compensation from the federal government for radiation exposure, involvement with nuclear risk committee of various Native American Programs. 24 Discussion of the role of spirituality, wife’s spiritual practice in his healing process. 27 Relatives living on area that became the Nevada Test Site were forced to relocate. 33 Involved with test site interpretive tour, petroglyphs, caves. 35 Participated in protests at the NTS during early 1990s, Western Shoshone permits to be on land. 37 Describes enlisting in the Marine Corps, serving in Vietnam. 40 Wounded in Da Nang, Purple Heart and other medals, exposure to Agent Orange and related disability rating 47 Returns to Nevada after being discharged from the Marine Corps., works for 2 years as security guard at AEC’s Central Nevada Test Area ( ca. 1969). 52 Conclusion: work at Kennecott, discussion of family life, infant daughter’s illness and death. 54 UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Bennie Reilley, Sr. May 10, 2004 in Ely, NV Conducted by Renee Corona Kolvet [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disk 1. Renee Corona Kolvet: Good morning, Mr. Reilley. Thank you for agreeing to do this interview. We normally start by discussing a little bit about people’s backgrounds and their families and that kind of sets the context for the rest of the interview. You had mentioned to me earlier that you were raised at Duckwater [ Shoshone Reservation]. Can you tell me a little bit about where you were born and a little bit about your parents? Bennie Reilley, Sr.: OK, I was born July 29, 1943 in Ely, Nevada, down here by the duck pond. The old hospital is still sitting there. And we lived here until 1947; then we moved out to Duckwater. Then I stayed and went to grade school in Duckwater for eight years. Then after that, for high school, there was no high school nearby, so I went to a boarding school in Stewart, Nevada. So I was over there for my high school years. But I came home every summer when I was in high school. Did you have any siblings? Any brothers or sisters? I had one brother, yes, a year younger than I am. And did he go to Stewart Indian School too? No, I don’t think he did. What was it that made your parents move from Ely to Duckwater? That’s when the land assignments first came up. And there, they got a land assignment over there. And did they like it out there? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 Well, they stayed out there for quite a while, so— that was just a, you know, a living. That’s where they were at. Did they live in the Indian colony before they went to Duckwater? Yes, we lived up there on Pine Street, up there on the— it was the first old Indian colony up there. We lived up there [ Ely]. And you said at some point you moved back to Ely. Was that recently the Ely Shoshone Colony? No. No, I moved back here in 1975, and I moved back here. That’s when I got this house. I was living at Reno at that time. But when I got this house here, then I moved back here, and the family, we moved back to Ely. Your parents too? No, my parents, they stayed out in Duckwater, and I think it was in 1969 or 1970, they left Duckwater and they moved to Lund. I just drove through there yesterday. Nice little town. Yes, they lived there because my stepdad was working there at the dairy, and they lived there until the 1970s, until these houses came open, and that’s when they moved up here. OK. I wanted to ask you a little bit about your schooling while at Duckwater, and then again I didn’t realize you went to Stewart Indian School, which that’s very interesting in itself. Out at Duckwater, I had heard that there were some Native Americans and even a few non- Native Americans going to school out there. Do you recall that? Yes, I do. A lot of the non- Native were the ranchers down below us, their kids that were going to school there, so…. OK, so you went to school…. Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 It didn’t matter, Native American, not Native American? No. No. And who were the teachers? We had different teachers that come from different areas. They signed contracts. They stayed for two years, three years, you know, down the line. Was that a positive experience, you think, at Duckwater? Yes, it was. Was it? Yes. You said high school was at Stewart Indian School. Yes. Now did most of the children from Duckwater end up at in Stewart? Yes. Yes, most of them, you know, my age went to Stewart, the boarding school. It’s an all- Indian school. And that would’ve been in what, the 1950s? Yes. I went away in— Wait a minute, no, high school you would’ve been…. I went away in 1952, I think, 1951 or 1952. No…. It would’ve been later. Nineteen fifty- nine. Nineteen fifty- nine. Nineteen fifty- nine. So in 1959 you went into Carson City and you stayed there— UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 Nineteen sixty- two. [ 00: 05: 00] Oh, OK, through 1962. You must’ve played sports? Yes, I played baseball and football. Track. Track. I went out to the Indian School and saw a lot of the photos out there at Stewart. Pretty interesting place. So then after you were done at Stewart, then did you move back to Duckwater? Well, I kind of moved around in the state, you know. I had a lot of friends. Lived in Fallon for a while. Lovelock. Winnemucca. Then I came back here in 1964, back to Lund where my parents were. Then May 1, 1964 I enlisted in the Marine Corps. In 1964. OK. Yes, I enlisted in 1964. Where did that take you? I ended up down in San Diego for boot camp. Then I went back east to Quantico, Virginia to go to school back there. Then in 1965 they wanted some volunteers to go to Vietnam and they said, People that want to volunteer, take one step forward, and there was three of us Native Americans, and we was the first ones to step across. Then the others followed. Is that right? Yes. And do you know why you were so interested? I mean at that time there was a lot of controversy over the Vietnam War. Yes. Well, I just got tired of going to school over there, you know, because you go to school eight hours a day, carrying books about six, seven inches high, you know, and all that. You mean in the Marines? Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 They were training you? Yes, I was at the Quantico Marine Corps schools. What were they training you in? I was training in ammunition technician. So you wanted to practice what you learned and get out of the classroom. [ laughter] Yes. Yes. Let’s go back to your parents a little bit. I didn’t get their names. Is it Reilley or—? Yes, my mom’s maiden name is Patty Mike. And my dad’s name is George Reilley. And my brother’s name was James, but he’s deceased so…. He is? OK. Was he older than you or—? No, he was a year younger than I am. What did your parents do? You mentioned they lived in Ely and then that they went down to Lund. What did they do for a living, or your father anyway? Well, my dad worked in a ranch out here at the Shoshone, and up at the mine. Up here at the mine. [ Nevada Consolidated] Oh, did he work at the mine? Yes. Did they ever live or interact with people down toward the test site, like Reveille Valley or Monitor Valley or anywhere, or were they pretty much, this was your home area would’ve been around Duckwater and Ely? Well, my mother, they came from Monitor Valley/ Smoky Valley. Oh they did? She came from there, and that’s where she was born at. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 OK. I had read that Duckwater Reservation was kind of formed to bring a lot of people in from Big Smoky Valley. Yes. Then my mother’s mom and her husband, they moved to Duckwater. That’s how my mom ended up in Duckwater. So she came with her parents. Yes. What did her parents do before they came to Duckwater? They were living over there in Smoky Valley. All the Indians lived over there in Smoky Valley. Most of the people that’s living in Duckwater came from that area. From down there, yes. Did your mother ever mention how they felt about moving up to Duckwater? No. No, never. I know that from things I’ve read that there was some opposition at first but, you know, because the Big Smoky Valley was their home, but that I’ve heard Duckwater’s a pretty nice area too. I have not been down there, but there was some ranch land there. So did they do any ranching once they got there? Yes, they got sixty acres each rancher, and grew alfalfa and the vegetables and everything, you know, themselves. Do you remember working on their ranch when you were—? Yes, I do. Yes, I remember going out there milking cows, feeding the pigs, doing the chores, you know, working in the garden, things like that. Plus going to school, grade school. And our bus stop was about almost about a mile from where we lived. We had to walk down to the bus stop. Sometimes snow was real deep, knee high, you know. Quite an experience. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 Where did they take you to school then? You said you had to catch a bus. The school was just right there on the reservation. Oh, it was? OK. The old school. Then later, I think it was 1956 or 1957, they built a brand- new grade school further down, off the reservation. OK. Now your mother was from Big Smoky Valley. Where was your father’s family from? My father’s family was from here. From Ely area? Actually they came from Skull Valley, Utah. That’s where they’re originally from, but they moved here. They moved here. Yes. And I assume your parents are around, or deceased, or—? They are all deceased. They are deceased. Yes. So it’s you, and you have one son, or you have several? I’ve got one son and two daughters. And two daughters. And do the daughters live here? Well, one daughter lives in Reno and the other one lives down in El Paso, Texas. Oh, so that’s why you go to Reno a lot, too. You have family. Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 Let me see here. I had wanted to talk to you about what you recalled, since this is a study of the Nevada Test Site, what you remembered, since you were down at Duckwater during the early 1950s and up till the late 1950s when a lot of that nuclear testing was going on at Mercury and actually Yucca Valley [ Flat] and all those areas at the test site. What do you recall of that as a child? Do you remember seeing anything or do you remember your parents talking about it? Well, I was about seven years old when they started the testing down there. And I remember listening on the radio; they’d make an announcement when the blast was going to go off. I remember we used to get up four o’clock in the morning and we’d all run outside and we’d watch the blast, because we could see the big orange flame go up and later on you could see the big old white cloud just go straight up in the air, then watch it break up. But usually, see, a lot of that used to go kind of south to an easterly direction, sometimes straight north. Once in a while we’d see it go toward the west. Southwest. OK, so it went all different directions, depending on the wind. Yes, depending on the wind. Now when you heard those radio announcements, did they give you any warnings? Did they tell you to stay inside, or were they just letting you know it was going to happen? I don’t remember if they gave us any warnings, but I do remember they just made announcements, you know. That it’s going to happen. That it’s going to happen. And I know all the kids on the reservation, that was a big thing. They’d all run out there four o’clock in the morning, you know. To watch. To watch. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 And it just happened, what, let’s see, ninety times at least during those years, so it must’ve been like a common occurrence. Yes, it was. Did you ever feel rumblings of the ground or anything? Yes. You did? Yes. Yes. Virginia Sanchez mentioned that some of the elders had talked about seeing animals kind of burnt or sick. Do you remember seeing anything like that up at Duckwater? No. Never. What were you, about a hundred and fifty miles north? I was trying to figure out. Yes, something like that. Something like that, north of where all this was going on. Do you ever remember seeing any scientists out in your area, checking radiation? No. No one. No, I never did see any. Because I’ve heard they would occasionally go out in different places and check the radiation afterwards, trying to reconstruct what had gone on. [ 00: 15: 00] During the early 1950s when you were still living at home, how big a part of the diet was eating rabbit and wild foods back then? Yes, we ate quite a bit of that, you know, the rabbit. You’d go rabbit hunting and all that. You know, that was a part of our regular diet. And the deer. Sometime antelope. Then we butcher our own beef, and the pig, our own pigs. Then we ate our own food that’s out of the garden. Vegetables, yes. We grow mostly a lot of stuff. And like the meat, the deer. We did a lot of UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 canning the fruit and all that, we canned, and we had a cellar. Put them in there, you know, for the winter. That’s what we used during the winter. What percent of your diet do you think, though, was still— I know then that wild foods supplemented what you were raising on the— do you think maybe 25 percent or what, you know…? Well, I’d say about maybe thirty, maybe. Thirty percent, I mean. Yes. It gave variety, and you liked it, didn’t you? Yes. I mean rabbit, you know, a lot of people still eat rabbit and like to hunt rabbit and continue to do that. You mentioned that it’s not as big a part of the diet anymore for Native Americans in most places, is it? No. The only place I see them serve that is at like at a traditional gathering, the pow- wows. Even as of today they still— They’ll still��? Yes. OK. Well, that’s interesting. I went to one in Reno last year and they had rabbit there. They did have rabbit? They had rabbit there. Did your family go in the fall on a lot of these excursions up into the pine nut areas and gather pine nuts? Do you remember that? Yes, we didn’t have to go too far. It was just up about three, four miles up there, yes, west of our house, because that’s where a lot of pine nuts. In those years the pine nuts used to be all over. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 What range was that, do you remember? You said it was just west of—? Duckwater. Oh, Duckwater range? Yes, on that side, yes. Over here at Currant and up White River area, up in there, you know. There’s still— yes, I noticed there’s a lot of— that’s a big forested area. And was that still a social event? I mean you didn’t just go up to get pine nuts. I mean would it be like a community event where people would get together and go up? Well, mostly it was just like a family— Event. Yes. So like extended family? Yes. And that was kind of like something you did every year? Yes, every year. Do you remember any of the, I say “ women” but I assume it was mostly the women, doing a lot of grinding of pine nuts and making it into meal? Yes, I remember my grandmother used to grind pine nuts and use her winnowing basket like that to clean them. Oh, yes. Yes, get the shells. Yes. Yes, get the shells out. And how did she prepare them? Well, she made a lot of that pine nut gravy out of it, you know. Did you like it? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 Well, when I was young, I didn’t really— it was eatable, but I like it roasted better, you know, plain. Oh, me too. I love pine nuts that way. I’ve gone only a couple times but I always got very sticky and dirty. But it was still a fun exercise. Yes. You mentioned on the phone that you’re considered an elder with the Western Shoshone. Can you explain a little bit about what that really means to you and to your tribal groups, what that means when someone considers you an elder, and what they expect of you as being an elder? Well, right now, in this area here there’s a lot of elders here that’s not traditional, you know. They’re elders but they don’t carry the Indian ways, traditional ways. My wife and I are about the most traditional people here, so we have a lot of people that look up to us and they’re always asking us all kind of questions and we’re glad to [ 00: 20: 00] help them. And they ask questions, How do you do this? How do you do that? Can you remember stories? And we’re always giving them advice, you know. And lately we’ve been running into some controversy because a lot of people are jealous, you know, reservation to reservation, there’s a lot of jealousy that’s going on because they know you’re doing a lot of stuff for your community. Then there’s some people that don’t appreciate it because they’ve gone away from the traditional way; they’ve gone into the modern thing, you know. But now some tribes are trying to bring all that back. Like here in Ely we’ve got a language program that’s trying to teach the kids the Shoshone language, coming back, and right now my wife is taking a class. She understands the language but she can’t speak it, because when she was small her parents used to talk all the time but they never did try to speak the language. But she understands it. But now she’s having a hard time UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 because your tongue is not doing right when you’re old, but when you’re young your tongue is just— them kids, you know, they go right into it real easy. You mentioned your wife trying to learn the language. She remembers some of it. What is her background? What tribal affiliation? She’s a Shoshone and she was born in Duckwater. Oh, she was? Yes. OK. Did you know her when you were growing up? Yes, I knew her when she was growing up. Oh, so you’ve known her most of your life. Yes. Well, that’s interesting. So she remembers some of the language. And how about you? Yes, I’m a fluent speaker. Are you? You never gave it up then? No, I didn’t. No. When you went to Stewart, now I’ve heard stories of Stewart Indian School, this might’ve been back before you went, where they really discouraged people from speaking their native tongue. Did you find that when you were there? No, that was before I went, because I remember my grandfather went over there in 1894 when the school first started. He was very early. Yes. My mom went to school over there too. Oh, both your parents. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 Yes, they went over there. Oh, so they were the ones that would’ve experienced— Yes. I know they said they used to get in big trouble. For speaking. But you didn’t find that. No. So by the time you went, if you wanted to speak your language— Yes. A lot of that, you know, the Shoshones would be here talking, Navajos here, Hopis there, Apaches here, Paiutes over there. Everyone speaking their own tongues. [ laughter] Yes, all things, you know. But a lot of the tribes, only when they’re really speak, you know, their language most was the Navajos. The Navajos had their own school [ at Stewart] because they’d teach them in their own language. They had their own school. But the others were all mixed up. We were speaking English pretty good, you know. How did you get along with the, say, Navajos or people that are way from distant areas away? I got along good with them. We all intermingled together. No problem. No problem. Yes. But they just had a little trouble with the English language, the Navajos, but the other tribes, they’re all, you know, they speak English and also their native language. What is your wife’s name, her first name? Geraldine. And her family name was—? Thompson. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 Thompson. OK. That’s interesting. I’m trying to remember when they closed Stewart Indian School, but it’s been a while back. I drove through there not long ago and it was boarded up. Have you been out there lately? It’s kind of sad. I think it had closed in 1977, I think. Somewhere in there. And the children now that live in all the [ Indian] colonies, do they just go to school in town? Yes, they go to public school now. Just public school. Yes. Very good. Getting back to elders and being an elder, people come to you for information, you say, about the old ways and the way people— Yes. But some of the elders are just elder because of their age and they really haven’t maintained their— so that causes a little animosity maybe? Yes. [ 00: 25: 00] Have you ever written up anything for the tribe on— do they want you to do that or is it just a verbal thing that you share? It’s just mostly verbal stuff, you know, that we share. Do you remember a lot of the stories and songs? I mean do you remember your parents— obviously it’d been passed on from your parents and you remember that— and did you teach your children? Or are they interested in knowing? No, not really. OK, they aren’t. OK. No. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 But they will be some day. They may be at the age now that— I know my kids are off in their own world, especially at the young age. OK, let’s see. I asked you about the tests. Let me see what time we have left here. [ Pause] I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the esophageal cancer we had mentioned on the phone. You were diagnosed in, you said 2001? Yes, it’s June 2001. OK, and how long before that did you realize something was wrong? Oh, I’d say about six months. About six months? About six months before I was diagnosed. Now when you finally realized that you needed some kind of care, did you go to medical facilities here at the Ely Shoshone Colony? I mean did they have the infrastructure to handle medical problems? Was this your first step or did they send you off to—? Well, they send you off to a specialist, most of them. They sent us up to Salt Lake City at the university. OK, in Salt Lake City. But when I first found out when I was sick, I went to the veterans’ hospital in Reno, and I went there for about like three, four months, you know. And they keep saying they didn’t think it was cancer. They thought I had a reflux disease, you know, and they said it’d be caused from being a diabetic, and just on and on. They ran all kind of tests on me and never did actually diagnose it. Never diagnosed it as cancer? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 17 No. No. Until I got back to Ely here, and one night about ten o’clock at night, my daughter was home for that weekend, I told her, I said, I can’t breathe very good. Now take me down to the hospital, down to William B. Ririe [ in Ely]. So you felt it in your chest? Yes. I got to where, you know, that cancer was around my throat, esophagus, and it was tightening up as it was growing, and it was cutting my wind off, and I couldn’t swallow anything that was, you know, like meat, anything like that, I had a hard time swallowing. So all I could eat was mostly liquid. Then I got down there, the hospital, checked in and they checked me out, and they wasn’t too sure but they said, Well, we’ll send you to Salt Lake and have you checked. The veterans’ or—? No, the university. So they Life Flighted me out of here. Oh, they did Life Flight you? Yes. My wife went with me when they flew me up. And they took me into the emergency, and that’s where they diagnosed it after they ran the tests, saying that I had a, you know, had a thing wrapped around my neck, my throat. And what tests did they do that showed that? I mean did they do MRIs [ Magnetic Resonance Imagining], or do you remember? They did MRIs and they did X- rays and they put the scope down there and all that. And they made it sound like it was pretty bad, didn’t they? Yes. They said it was pretty bad, you know. Pretty bad. So you said you underwent some treatment? Yes. After they checked me out and all that, they checked me out to see how bad, ran some more tests, took biopsy of that little thing that was wrapped around my thing, and yes, they said it was UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 18 cancer, that it was a malignant cancer and all that, you know. And so they took me to the [ 00: 30: 00] emergency and worked me over, and then they said they didn’t want to operate because it was wrapped around one of the main nerves that was going up to my brain, one nerve, the big one, and they said it was really risky. But they said they still needed more time, so they said, We’ll place a stent down your throat so you could swallow better. So they tried that and they stuck one down in there. And I had a problem with that, I couldn’t take it and all that, and then back to emergency I went. I think they said that I had a record up there, going in emergency four times in three days, you know, into emergency and back. Well, if it had something to do with your breathing and swallowing, it’s quite frightening, I’m sure. Yes, it was, yes. They decided, I guess, that they were going to try to do radiation to shrink it, is that one of the—? Yes. Well, they talked to my wife about it, and the kids see what the situation was. And I thought to myself, I said, Why should they? Let’s see, when they cut people, you know, I mean the cancer spreads [ into the] blood stream. And I talked to my wife, we talked about it, and we thought maybe it wasn’t a very good idea and we could just go ahead and try the treatment, you know, the radiation and the what you call it? The other one? Oh, chemotherapy? Chemotherapy. And the wife said Yes. Besides, she said, we’ll go the spiritual way and we’ll do some praying for you and all that. Get all the spiritual people and have them all pray for you and all that, you know. We’ll go that route. Yes, I said, we’ll do that. So I did six weeks of radiation treatment, five days a week. Then I did chemo, I think was something like two- and- a- half days or something like that. It wasn’t UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 19 very long for chemo. But it was amazing, you know, when I was doing my radiation treatment I didn’t lose very much of my hair, because my hair was almost long as what it is now. And I didn’t lose any, but a little came out, you know. But chemo, I think, is the one that really makes it come out too, I’ve heard. Well, that was good. Yes. After I got done with my radiation then, you know, then the chemo came next after that. And I did the chemo treatment, you know, didn’t get sick or nothing. Didn’t even get me sick or nothing. I had a roommate there, was doing the same treatment. They had him on the morphine where they pump their own pain killer, and he used to lay there and moan and asking for pain pill, but he was always pushing that thing, but they had it set where you’re only allowed to pump so much an hour, you know, one pump. That’s all you get. And they’d be begging for more. I told them to look at him, you know, I wonder why it’s such a big pain, you know, and I’m not in pain. And he asked me, he said, Are you in pain? I said, No. I said, I don’t feel anything. So when they took me off my chemo and they took all those needles and everything out, I sat up and got up, looked around, and I walked down the hall. All the nurses and everybody looked at me, and the staff, they all clapped their hand and they waved, you know, looking at me, scratching their heads, you know. And I walked all the way around, exercised my leg, came back and laid down. Doctors came and they checked me out, took my blood pressure and all that, asked me how I felt. Didn’t have no pain. Good thing about all that time I was in there, I never took any pain pill, you know, no pain pill. And you attribute that to the spiritual healers working with you and helping you through that? Yes. Yes. When I first went in, this one leader in California, she had a vision. She saw me laying on the gurney when they first brought me in. When the doctors were looking at me, she said she could see me laying there. She said there were two white doctors on the end and two Indian UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 20 doctors with the long white hair and braid, were in the middle, and them two were looking at me and talking, and these other two were on the side. And that’s how she saw me, she said. And the two Indian doctors were the healers, right? Yes. Yes. And then you had your traditional medicine doctors? Yes, those two traditional ones were in the middle, but those two white doctors were on each end. OK, yes, the medical doctors. The medical doctors, and that’s how she seen it in her vision from California. And how did your medical doctors at Salt Lake work with the spiritual healers? Were they open to that? I mean were they—? No. See, they don’t know all this. They didn’t realize it was going on. No, they don’t know all this is going on. That’s what they call a miracle. See, they don’t know anything about it. OK. OK. They didn’t know. OK. So they didn’t—? And we never tell them either. You don’t tell them. Yes. OK. Because I didn’t know if they knew that you had spiritual healers working with you. No. They didn’t realize that. So they think you had a miracle. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 21 Yes. Because when I first went in, I went in there with an eagle feather. I had an eagle feather hanging in front of me on my TV. That was for me. And I prayed to that eagle fea