Transcript of interview with Andy Katz by Barbara Tabach, February 16, 2016

AN INTERVIEW WITH ANDY KATZ An Oral History Conducted by Barbara Tabach Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ii ?Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2014 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV ? University Libraries Director: Claytee D. White Project Manager: Barbara Tabach Transcriber: Kristin Hicks Interviewers: Barbara Tabach, Claytee D. White Editors and Project Assistants: Maggie Lopes, Stefani Evans iii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of a Library Services and Technology Act (LSTA) Grant. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader?s understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases photographic sources accompany the individual interviews with permission of the narrator. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage Project. Claytee D. White Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas iv PREFACE Andy Katz is the youngest of four children born to Michael and Beatrice Katz. When Andy was a little over one-year-old his family moved from New York City to Las Vegas. During this oral history Andy highlights his family?s background and the entrepreneurial spirit of his father that inspired the move in 1963. By 1964, Mike Katz, Andy?s father, was well-known in Las Vegas for providing an answering service and subsequently for opening the Manpower franchise to serve the growing town. In v time, this family business grew and the eldest sons, Bob and Mel opened franchises in Salt Lake City and San Diego, respectively. Andy recalls his steps to joining Manpower in this interview. With great humor and fondness, he describes the friendships he formed in public school, Hebrew school and Jewish youth organizations. Andy easily slipped into active leadership roles; it was a role he would continue during his years at UNLV, where he earned a Business degree and was active with the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity. Born Andrew Scott Katz on January 9, 1962, Andy, as everyone knew him, passed away suddenly on February 23, 2016. It was exactly one week after this oral history interview. The scheduled next session was not to occur. vi TABLE OF CONTENTS Interview with Andy Katz February 16, 2016 in Las Vegas, Nevada Conducted by Barbara Tabach Preface?????????????????????????????????iv ? v Provides an overview of family ancestry that brings his grandparents to New York; he is named for his grandfather; family owned and operated a traditional Jewish delicatessen in New York City. Talks about how his parents Beatrice and Mike met; father worked in men?s clothing; mother attended Hunters College; married in 1947 and had four children; their decision to move family to Las Vegas????????????????????????????.1 ? 4 Talks about his father?s answering service business; Mike Katz?s entrepreneurial spirit that brought them to Las Vegas; where they first lived and moving in next door to Bobby Morris? family. Talks about childhood friends from the neighborhood; schools attended; USY friends; maintains friends with many to this day????????????????????..5 ? 7 Shares a funny childhood lesson-story of damaging the car; hanging out at Ruby Kolod Center and Hebrew School at Temple Beth Sholom; JCC, AZA BBYO and leadership role.??..8 ? 11 Talks about attending UNLV; involvement with Hillel and Alpha Epsilon Pi [AEPi] fraternity and others who were members from local community; up and down history of fraternity. Mentions upcoming reunion of multiple generations of AEPi members to be hosted at his business????????????????????????????????.12 ? 14 Tells the history of Manpower franchisor; how his father came to own the local franchise in 1964 and recent celebration of 50th Anniversary of the business. Competition with Kelly Services; first offices in same building as Oscar Goodman and Richard Bryan. Mentions mother coming to work for Manpower after his bar mitzvah; ran clerical division. Business move from Sterns Building to Bonneville and Las Vegas Blvd.??????????????????15 ? 18 Recalls working at Manpower, early jobs, the call center for ACNielsen, newer program called SeniorNet; various divisions of the business his father created for pool cleaning, gardening and office work. Stories of getting fraternity brothers jobs at conventions, being a demonstrator for Kodak, bussing tables, and digging trenches??????????????????.19 ? 22 vii Describes how the business has evolved over time, impact of technology, unions, and convention business, unusual temporary jobs; impact of economic downturns such as 2008 recession. Talks about fact that people moved to Las Vegas because of his parents?????????...23 ? 26 Talks about working after college graduation for the national AEPi organization; members of his greater family; family expansion of the Manpower business into Salt Lake City and San Diego areas?????????????????????????????????...27 ? 31 Index?????????????????????????????????.32 ? 33 viii 1 Today is February 16th, 2016. This is Barbara Tabach and I'm sitting with Andy Katz. So Andy, as we approach this Southern Nevada Jewish Heritage project, it's really fun to get some idea of the ancestry. What was the lineage or whatever you know about people in your family getting to America and then getting them to Vegas? Those seem like two monumental steps of a family's decision making. Yes, it's pretty amazing. My parents were both born in America. My mom's side of the family came from Poland/Russia. But like we were just talking about, I don't know a lot about how they made the migration to New York. My grandparents...I was named after my mom's dad, Abraham Sova. So my Hebrew name is after him, Abraham. Oh, that's nice. So I'm not sure how he got to America and how my grandma did, but they got together and my mom was born in New York, in Manhattan. They had a delicatessen business, like a full-line delicatessen business. A traditional Jewish deli? Yes. Oh, cool. Actually, I think my dad's parents did, also, like the Coffee Cup. Oh, when I was telling you about starting the coffee shop down in the chapel here [Note: Manpower Building is currently located in the former First Methodist Church, 231 South 3rd St], I don't know if that was kind of in our blood, like the reason to maybe want to try that. Kind of the DNA of the Katz family is to have a little coffee shop in the bio. Right. I remember Oscar Goodman was the mayor at the time and they were very good friends with my parents. So I remember going to his office. We had a whole rendering, a business plan, 2 and we kind of wanted to call it Oscar G's or something like that for him. But he says, "Well, I'm not going to do it, but you can talk to Ross [Goodman]; talk to my son and he'll do it with you." He was fine with the name. He says, "But you've got to have...We don't have a good deli sandwich downtown. There's no good Jewish deli." And so from our little coffee shop idea, then it became like a sandwich place and a salad bar and all that stuff. So you did do that with Ross? No, we never did it with Ross. I'm kind of glad we didn't. But I could see how Oscar kind of does his deals. "Well, I can't do it, conflict of interest, but Ross could do it with you." And probably would have, but we didn't. Anyway, so, yes, I think they both had delis in New York. Did they talk about growing up in New York in the deli atmosphere, any memories? My mom talked about it. She worked before and after school. She has a twin sister that is back east still. But as young girls, they worked in the deli and always great food. They grew up very modestly, but always had a wonderful life and upbringing and plenty of food, I guess. So did they keep kosher in New York? No, no, no. Not officially, not Orthodox kosher, not separate plates and stuff like that. No meat and milk together, the basics. The basics, like we would never have a cheeseburger at home. I remember you don't mix the meat and milk. Oh. So that was even here? That was here, yes. That they brought that tradition with them. Yes. Do you know anything about how your folks met? Yes. They met at like a youth group. I think my mom was going to Hunter College in New 3 York and my dad was maybe taking courses at Cornell or something like that. They met at this Jewish youth organization in New York. My mom [Beatrice Katz] and her twin sister, my aunt, went together, I guess to go and meet new people, and they both met their spouses there. My aunt met Uncle Frank and my mom met my dad [Mike Katz]. They communicated. My dad was about that same time enlisted in the service and they corresponded by letter and kept in contact that way. Then my dad was done probably after the war and they got married at twenty-one in 1947. I guess that was the thing to do back then, right? So did they continue to work in the deli industry when they got married? My dad got into the men's clothing business, the schmatta business. What did he do? He managed retail clothing stores, first in Manhattan, like Clay Thomas Clothiers or something like that. He did that and then expanded into shops in Long Island and that's where I was born in 1962. They had friends, relationships there. He would do clothing for, he said, the mobsters. He always had great stories, just people that would come in. I don't remember any dignitaries or whatever, but just the typical men's clothing business in New York. So he moved the family to Long Island, but still was commuting, and that's about when I was born. He had good friends that had, I guess, properties here in Las Vegas, investments, and they were looking for an operating partner to come and operate the interests for them. At the time they had four kids. I was just born. I was the youngest. Youngest of four. Yes. My brother, who runs the Manpower in San Diego, he's the oldest brother [Mel Katz]. He was thirteen years older than me. What is his name? 4 Mel. He was like my father figure. I was a little baby. I remember my dad saying that he was working the typical retail hours and commuting back and forth to Manhattan and would leave at six o'clock in the morning and come home at nine and never got to see the family, didn't get to see the newborn. So his friends and business partners said they were looking for an operating partner and needed somebody to move to Las Vegas and he said, "Let's do it." My mom, she just trusted my dad and said, "If you think it's the right decision, let's go." So who was the friend here? Is that a name we would know? No, no. This is a guy named Jack Schulman. I always called him Uncle Jack. But he never moved here. They had investments here or whatever, businesses that they got involved with somehow. He was always in New York, but he would come out and visit maybe every quarter or something like that. I remember going with my dad and picking him up at the airport. He ran a laundry mat over on Boulder Highway and this apartment complex on Koval Lane over by Ellis Island. He managed that apartment complex and managed and answering service, the plug-in answering service. That was really his first main business where he started to get a reputation in town. I just remember when I got into the business really officially in the late eighties, it was in the mid to late eighties, people would still be calling, "Mike, you've got to get back in the answering service business because we've never had service like we had back when"?I can't remember what it was called?"We never had service like you provided." So he actually did; in the old building across from City Hall, he bought used old-style plug-in answering service equipment, hired this family to run it twenty-four hours, and he actually got back into that business out of that building. We don't even know what that means anymore. An answering service, right. 5 Technology has changed so much. Right, right. So what was the name of the answering service? I don't remember. I was just trying to remember it. I don't know if my mom would remember or not. That would be kind of fun to know that. How many people were employed by that business, would you say? I remember it was a mother and two daughters basically. Oh, so it was very small. And they handled it all? They handled it all. I bet they have some good stories to tell. Oh, some great stories I'm sure. I wish I knew some of them. So my dad was always like that, just the entrepreneur and would go into something. But everything he did was quality. So what year was that that you moved here? Sixty-three. So you are...? So I'm a year old, just less than a year. I was born in January and I think they moved in August or something like that. My dad said, "You want to move to Las Vegas?" She was like, "Where's Las Vegas?" They had to pull out a world atlas just so she could find out where Las Vegas was. It was probably?I don't know; you'd know better than me?fifty, sixty thousand people living here at that time. Yes, yes. It was a tiny place. They rented a house out by the university [UNLV], Maryland and 6 Westminster, out there, like Maryland/Trop. They rented a house there for six months or a year right by the Paradise School there; that's where my brothers went. Then there was a new Pardee development over on Eastern and Desert Inn where I grew up in that area. So they bought a Pardee home for twenty-four thousand dollars I think at that time, a nice two-story home in a new development. So that's where I was raised at that house and that's where I met Daryl and Bobby Morris and the Morris clan. So that neighborhood is where you essentially grew up. Yes. We were next-door neighbors to them. They met each other in the little model home trailer. One of those friends that you just never get rid of; you were born with. Daryl still tells the story of how we met. I don't remember it. But there were hedges in between our lots or whatever, our yards. I guess Daryl pushed me into the hedges. I was crying and ran home. That's basically been our relationship all our lives. [Laughing] That's funny. Who else was in the neighborhood? The guy that I was telling you about, Jim Barberite. Their family was a Catholic family. They went to Gorman. But I grew up with him. That's when all the kids on the block?it was young families, young kids?we were on the street constantly playing football and baseball and basketball. Everybody was just great friends. Jimmy Barberite was the guy that I started the restaurant business with. So I just stayed in contact with him. As I grew up there, I saw all the people that you're probably talking to?Jimmy Mason and Billy Mason and Leah Levinson?these guys that all went to?I think Bill and Jimmy went to Orr. I went to K.O. Knudson. Eastern and DI; that was kind of the breaking point, like what schools people went to. Some kids went to Orr and a lot of the Orr kids went to Chaparral. But I was at K.O. Junior High and all the K.O. kids went to Valley High School. So I got to know Jimmy and Billy and Leah. Cliff 7 Hanel, oh, my God, may he rest in peace, he was a very close friend of ours who just passed away about a year ago, just a wonderful guy. Anyway, so we all knew each other growing up like that and then through the youth group, USY. You've probably heard all about that. Well, I love hearing about it. So who were the crowd there at USY then in that era? My group was Bill and Jim Mason, Cliff Hanel, Daryl, of course, Brad Friedman. You know Norma. I did get to meet Brad, yes. So Brad and I met when we were twelve or thirteen years old. His parents, after they had moved from Indiana, I think, met my parents and they arranged for us to meet. I remember riding to the 7-Eleven on Eastern and DI and met Brad there and we're still best of friends. Isn't that cool? Yes, it's cool. I'm in a pool league with him now. I just saw him last night. So we see each other every week. You're in a?What league? Pool, like billiards. Oh, really? So you're a billiards player. It's just an excuse to have a beer or two. I'm not too good, but it's fun. It's like a bowling league or softball. What kind of mischief did you guys get into? Oh, gosh. It was always because of Daryl. [Laughing] I have a feeling that that's probably true. I was an angel. Of course. 8 The one story, I even shared it with the rabbis after my dad passed away. I shared it with the rabbi that was going to be doing the service. We grew up in the Jewish community center behind Temple Beth Sholom. And that would be the Ruby Kolod? The Ruby Kolod, yes. So we were there and went to high school, but every day we would walk and play basketball all day and night at Ruby Kolod. So I remember just getting my license, just sixteen. I had my mom's '72 LeMans, the hand-me-down car, which I loved. So Daryl and I after basketball practice?we were sixteen?I'm pulling out of the lot. There was a kid, Jay Herman. I don't know if you've met that family at all. He's not here anymore. But Ken Herman and Hazel, they grew up in the same neighborhood around the temple. So Jay was...We teased him a little bit. He wasn't the greatest athlete or whatever, not that any of us were. But at the time I remember he was walking out of the Kolod Center and we were just leaving. I'm like, "Let's scare Jay." So I kind of swerve the car as he was walking out of the door, this little entryway. It was a pretty solid brick building. So I kind of swerved and then swerved back. I remember the corner of the car hit the corner of the building. It's probably still there, my little indentation in the JCC. I remember I clipped the front quarter panel or whatever and the siding all came out. I'm like, "Oh, my God, what am I going to tell my dad?" Daryl was like, "I got it. We'll go back, but tell them that you were parked at Vegas Village." Vegas Village was the Von Tobel's that was over on Maryland Parkway and Vegas Valley, by Sahara. So Daryl said, "Just tell them that we were parked at Vegas Village. You had to pick something up. It was a hit-and-run. We didn't see anything." So I go back and I tell my dad that story. I remember him lying on the couch on a Saturday just relaxing. He comes out in his sweatpants and socks. I can see him just walking 9 around the car. He looks and says, "Looks like you hit a brick wall." At that moment I knew I couldn't ever get anything by him. But it was a life lesson. He said, "You never leave the scene of a crime. You go back and you park at Vegas Village where you were parked and you go inside and you call the police and have them come and do a report." So we did. We did all that and made the call at an old phone booth in the middle of Vegas Village. The cops, of course, said they can't come to private property. I'm like, whew. I just remember feeling so guilty for lying and everything. So I wrote this whole big letter, just an apology, just admitting everything, admitted lying, and left it on my parents' bed that night. Oh, how sweet. I said, "I couldn't sleep." My dad saved that letter. I think my brother still has that letter. That's great. So it was a life lesson, then. And it's all Daryl's fault. It's all Daryl's fault. [Laughing] That's great. So you guys all went to Hebrew school together, then? We went to Hebrew school, yes, yes, gosh. I remember it was such a big part of our life. Mr. Shevach and Mrs. Kardonak and all these teachers. We went like on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I was really quite involved with the temple. My dad was on the board. So I remember he'd go to his board meetings in the social hall and I'd go back and play basketball in the Kolod Center. There is some pretty amazing history at Temple Beth Sholom. My earliest memories are going to Hebrew school and just hanging with the kids there. For some reason as a little kid, I don't know, I didn't like the teacher or something. I think it was Mrs. Pink I remember. I don't know why I didn't like her?she was a nice lady?but for some reason. So every Tuesday and 10 Thursday I didn't want to go to Hebrew school, which was after classes at public school. I was at Robert E. Lake Elementary School at the time. But I remember getting sick every Tuesday and Thursday. I was a little liar, wasn't I? My mom would go along with it. She went along with it for a couple of weeks and then knew there was something up. So I remember going and having a little conversation with Mrs. Pink. But everything was fine after that. But it was a big part of my upbringing. It's always interesting. People hate that obligation as a child to be someplace. Maybe that was it. Then there's great memories that come from being there and the friends you make and you keep those friends for a long time. Oh, yes. I remember the junior choir. We were in junior choir and a lot of kids were there, like Lori Chenin. That was the whole USY group?Lori Chenin and Richard Gottlieb and the Abramsons, Nancy Katz, of course, who I had a huge crush on. I do remember after choir practice my dad would pick me up and I would see Nancy walking out with her dad, George Katz. I was so intimidated that I couldn't put two words together and talk to her. And you shared the same last name. And we shared the last name. We still joke about it, like if we ever got married, you wouldn't have to change the name. Wouldn't have to change the monogram. That's right. Keep your towels. And all her sisters, Amy Katz and Tobi Katz. The Merkins. You just remember all those families. My mom still talks about them. That's the first thing they did; they went to Temple Beth Sholom and got involved in that community. There was only one option at that time. 11 That was it. That was it. So you had that hub that you all shared. Had that hub. That was my hub all the way through even during high school. I was involved with my high school friends and involved with that community. I remember walking over to my dad's office here after school and then walking to the Kolod Center, just biking over there. That was really the central part of my life. So other than religious education that's going on and socialization at the Kolod Center, what other kind of activities did you get involved in as a teenager? Pretty normal, but it was all based around the JCC and high school. So I had two kind of separate groups of friends?high school friends, so those activities, and then all the Jewish stuff with the USY. That was interesting; there was USY and there was BBYO, AZA and BBG. There may have been something where we grew up, kind of the kids that grew up on Eastern and DI and went to Valley and that whole area. The east side kids maybe all kind of were?there was a separation there, too, because some of the Chaparral kids went to AZA and BBYO, but my group of friend were all USY. So you were mostly in USY. Did you get involved in like the leadership of USY? Oh, yes, yes. That's where I was tossed into probably the first leadership role. I didn't want it. I just wanted to be like the comic relief or something. I didn't want to talk it too seriously. But that was probably the first lead?that really taught me about organizational behavior, probably the first kind of thing. So that was all during junior high and high school. And then in college the natural thing was just to get involved with Hillel. Where did you go to college? Here at UNLV. 12 What was UNLV like? That would have been...What year did you go there? Seventy-nine. It was small. It was a small commuter campus. When I started there may have been eight thousand students, commuter campus. But right away I got involved with Hillel. It was just the natural progression from USY and all my friends in that. A lot of people went away to school, but I stayed, kind of just the easy road. What did you study? Business, business management. But right away got involved with leadership. We kind of re-founded Hillel back then. It wasn't really a lot of people involved at that time. Tell me about some of the things you did to solidify it as an organization here. We started it. So there is that center. It's still there. What's that center? The Center for Religion and Life or whatever on Naples. Yes. It's right there on campus. Yes. I just parked over there and walked to the Thomas and Mack just the other day for Fred Albrecht's ceremony. He was one of the first people I met on campus. He was the tennis coach and that's a whole other story. Have you met Lee Driessen yet? I remember knowing Lee Driessen real well. He got involved with another?oh, Hillel kind of went into?well, not necessarily Hillel, but my involvement with Hillel then kind of went into helping to start the Jewish fraternity, AEPi, Alpha Epsilon Pi. Oh, so you helped bring that to the campus, then, too. Yes, right. So kind of in conjunction with Hillel because AEPi was the largest national Jewish fraternity. So a couple of my friends who were like AZA and BBYO friends, they went to Chaparral. So I didn't really socialize much with them growing up, but they had their own 13 group. This was Greg Goussak. Have you met him? You met Greg, okay. Yes. Oh, God, that's a whole other story. I remember, Greg and Tom Foskaris. Have you talked to him yet? They were friends from high school. So I remember getting a call from Greg saying there's a group of seven of us?well, it started with Tom and Goussak were going to start this Jewish fraternity on campus. I really wasn't interested. "Eh, no. That's okay. No, I'll do the Hillel thing. I'm not a frat guy." But I got involved. Of course, Daryl was right there. Daryl's got a unique personality, as we all do. So some of the personalities didn't mesh. Goussak and Foskaris were like, "We want you to come and join, but don't know so much about Daryl." I'm like, "No, you've got to have Daryl; I can't do it without Daryl." So Daryl got involved with it, too. So there were nine of us, nine guys that started AEPi. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Actually, Reese started it. I think originally it started on campus in like '69. Jerry Gordon of Gordon and Silver, he was one of the founding guys. I think he may have been the founding guy that started AEPi on campus at UNLV. Mike Cherry, I think, was in that group. My brother, I think, was in that group. He may have pledged it, my brother Mel. So you're saying they started it and then? They founded it, I think, in like '69 or '70. Then they got thrown off campus. The story that we always heard, I don't know what, wild Vietnam parties or whatever in those days. So they got tossed off campus. So we restarted it. We got the charter back. But the name of our chapter is Nu Sigma because they name the chapters after the school name and at the time when it originally started it was Nevada Southern. So it was the Nu Sigma chapter. So 14 we re-founded that. So AEPi, being the Jewish fraternity, we went to recruit Jewish guys, but it just wasn't big enough. Talking about affiliation, we couldn't just concentrate on Jewish guys. So we opened it up to everybody. We had an Iranian guy, an African-American guy and Cuban. Oh, I was mentioning to you on the phone that we're having a thirtieth anniversary or thirty-plus anniversary this weekend. Some of the guys are coming in. They're still in contact with each other. So did it remain this quite homogenized group of guys from different backgrounds? Yes, it did, but then the different generations that came went more Jewish. I think it's probably more Jewish now. I think a similar story happened after I left; I think the guys got in trouble and they were kicked off campus. But then there was a group that started again and that's that group of Robbie Wilner. I don't know if you've met him, the whole Wilner family. That was probably the next generation that kind of restarted it. So as we don't really know the guys from '69 that much, Jerry Gordon and Mike Cherry, the guys that restarted it in the late 80s probably didn't hold on to much of our history. So when you have this 35th reunion, is it just your group or do you invite current guys as well as the older guys? We kind of put it out there on Facebook, so we'll see who shows up. But we're going to have kind of a mixer here. Thursday night we're going to do the LINQ, do that for some of the guys visiting from out of town. Then we're going to have a mixer here on Friday night. Yes, we're just getting the word out. I don't know who's going to show up, but it's pretty cool. That is cool. It's like the generations of guys that followed. Yes. It's those connections that make it fun. 15 Right, right. So a lot of your connections have been through the Jewish heritage that you have. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Even this next generation, staying here and being in the company that we have, finding people jobs, you get to know people or people that you haven't seen in decades. It's like you've never been apart. Well, let's talk a little bit about the business. We may need to do a second session, too. I can see that there's a lot to talk about. Manpower. For a person who doesn't know anything other than they've heard the name of a business is Manpower, tell the history of the organization as much you can. So the parent company of Manpower started in like 1948 in Milwaukee. It was started by a couple of Jewish guys, lawyers who I guess had a full-time secretary at the time and she was going on vacation and they needed somebody to come in, fill in for a couple of weeks or whatever the length of the vacation was and they couldn't find anybody. So they said, "What a great concept. What if we started this company who had a pool of people like that that could be sent out to different companies?" So the concept of temporary help where the employees that we put out, they're our employees. We do all the work for a company that's looking for people. We do the screening and testing and recruitment and all that and they're legally Manpower employees, but we just send them to different places. That's where the concept started, in Milwaukee. So after my dad had moved here in '63 and running those different businesses, he saw an ad in the Wall Street Journal, "Manpower, temporary staffing company expanding west and looking for franchisees." And so he borrowed a little money where he could, probably from this Jack Schulman, his business partner, and other partners that were still back in New York, and 16 became a franchisee. He was taught the business by the founder of the company, the founder Elmer Winter, who recently passed away, I think, at a hundred or something, but was this amazing philanthropist in the Milwaukee area for decades, really big into Jewish philanthropy, a bunch of programs really related around that. I actually saw his autobiography and I'll show you on our way out. So my dad was trained by Elmer Winter who came out and showed him the business and he built it from that. You have just celebrated your fiftieth anniversary, so that's just fifty years ago. Yes, just happened. So he probably became an associate franchisee in '64 and had a franchise in '65 or something like that and it just started from that. He started probably not far from here, a couple of blocks from here, like Fourth and Fremont, close to that. It was called the Sterns Building. I know that because we were celebrating another anniversary probably a decade ago. We had opened up a new office on Eastern and Sunset and kind of decorating it. I was cleaning out my mom's garage and found this old shipping container with that original address, 110 South Fourth Street, the Sterns Building, and that was my dad's original office. It was pretty cool because this was an original piece of art. Elmer Winter was an artist, too. So this was a piece of art in one of those mailing tubes. In my dad's writing on the tube, it said, "To be hung in the new office." But this was probably, whatever it was then, thirty years ago when he had that office and then moved to another location. But it had never